World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 08/26/10 07:13 PM

I thought their blocks were cast offshore and machined here? Maybe I'm wrong on that....

From http://www.raybarton.com/supermill.htm

"Actual manufacturing of all race variants is done in an ISO 9002 certified facility in the British Midlands. One of which produces the lion's share of NASCAR and Formula One blocks. The production blocks are cast in Michigan"

Posted By: moparniac

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 08/26/10 09:35 PM

Posted By: Hemi Allstate

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 08/27/10 01:03 AM

Quote:

Hi guys, Im Chuck and I will represent WORLD Products. The ARP stud kit is $112.99 at Summit.
Im also the new MOPAR guy here and am currently building an all aluminum 540cu World HEMI.
So I feel your pain with the studs, I even checked
mine, and they are ARP. Any questions you guys have fire away and I will find you an answer.

The boss over here at World is now aware of the problem and has issued a statement to our foundry where both the iron and aluminum are cast. All if any left non ARP hardware is being discarded.
ONLY ARP hardware will be used and to our knowledge that is what was sold. We are currently going through the HEMI and WEDGE inventory here at WORLD to make sure this does not happen again.

CHUCK

Posted By: Bob_Coomer

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 08/27/10 01:18 AM

This thread is really starting too get to me...
Now I have near $20K into this Hemi, I plan on running hard, and looky...someone wanted to save $30 on some bolts, but i gotta live with the mistake..
this is bull crap....
I going to call World in the a.m. and see what the say...
I think they need to send me some new bolts...

Posted By: HEMIFRED

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 08/27/10 01:40 AM

I sure hope chuck is not a one and done poster

Posted By: Hemi Allstate

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 08/27/10 02:14 AM

Quote:

This thread is really starting too get to me...
Now I have near $20K into this Hemi, I plan on running hard, and looky...someone wanted to save $30 on some bolts, but i gotta live with the mistake..
this is bull crap....
I going to call World in the a.m. and see what the say...
I think they need to send me some new bolts...

That is the very least they should do. I bought my aluminum block before all the "deals" were offered. It was a lot of money for me. I never expected to get cheezy main studs, with quality ARP nuts to disquise them for what they really are.
Chuck comes here to tell us that they have taken care of their existing inventory. Well, maybe that's going to help their future sales, but what about those of us that trusted in the World Products name and spent our $ and got these mystery main studs?
Rant over.....for now!

Posted By: hvyweight

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 08/27/10 02:50 AM

Hey guys. When this post started. I immediately contact my buddy. Chuck at world. His response was quick and so was the vps. I am sure that world will make it right. I am in the same boat with the studs. The only reason I have yet to fire the motors is I am waiting for lifters. As for the comment about the sale on the wedge spread bore blocks. It wasn't because of the studs I am quite sure of that. Most guys don't want to get into a. 200 spread lifter. I extremly pleased with the service I have received from world. Watch and shoot.

Mike

Posted By: moparniac

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 08/27/10 02:55 AM

Quote:

This thread is really starting too get to me...
Now I have near $20K into this Hemi, I plan on running hard, and looky...someone wanted to save $30 on some bolts, but i gotta live with the mistake..
this is bull crap....
I going to call World in the a.m. and see what the say...
I think they need to send me some new bolts...

bob aint those arp in your pic. kinda fuzzy!

Posted By: moparniac

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 08/27/10 03:05 AM

Quote:

The block end of the stud...note the difference on the end of the stud itself....you may be able to see it, but the body of the inferior stud is very " stratchy", you could feel it on your finger nail at each cut of the stud, vs the ARP, very smooth and hard. You will also notice where the shank and the threads meet, notice the rolled threads, the chamfer, and the overall apperance.

ARP on left, unknown on right.

I only have 2 sets of these here now, already spoken for, I can get more fairly quickly if anyone wants them, just PM me.

is the pic on the right the chinese ones that came in the world supposedly..

Posted By: Bob_Coomer

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 08/27/10 03:08 AM

Im 99% sure these studs have no markings on the end, and they sure dont look like whats pictured.
They may be ARP.
Im pulling the pan in a week or so due to a leak, and I will inspect the studs along with the bearings as usual..
LOL the engine has a whole 15 minutes run time on it now..

Posted By: moparniac

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 08/27/10 03:10 AM

please take a pic. thx bob

Posted By: rowin4

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 08/27/10 03:36 AM

Quote:

It's hard to explain that being some mistake like we didn't notice any differences. They are just too far apart looking for me to buy that one. who would have ever purchased only the ARP nuts and those junk studs unintentionally.

Could it be the guy from IMPACT RACING?

Posted By: CompWedgeEngines

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 08/27/10 04:00 AM

After looking at Coomers pics, ( which kind of look like ARP "finish")it occurred to me that maybe there are 3 versions of this stud. Here is why I make that statement. There is the definate crap stud, as pictured. Then Bobs, which "look" different, but at least more like an ARP. Then there is the stud that I pictured which is definately the newest ARP. When I first found this problem, I simply got individual ARP studs and made up my own "kits" that I needed. In the meantime, ARP came out with a kit, which is what I showed in the picture. I happened to make a call to a buddy of mine who does a very significant amount of World Hemi blocks, and he too had found that there were problems torquing the studs. Now , with all that being said, it is very very possible that a less experienced assembler or builder could have torqued these and never picked up on it. Its one of those " feel" things you get after doing literally dozens and dozens of engines. You may have gotten away with torquing them once or twice, but if your like I am and mock the motor up a few times for fitment, then these things may have even failed over that short of time.

Also be aware, that if if you change out the side bolts for studs, you will have interference with the oil pump ( or could) that will require some attention. Wirh studs, the heads of the nuts will not clear the backside of the oil pump.

I dont know the answer, but I do know the fix. Hopefully Chuck can step back in and explain. Whatever the case, there definately WAS a problem, but was it every block sold? Who knows.

Posted By: rowin4

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 08/27/10 07:43 PM

Quote:

Here is a pic of the broached end, the ARP is obvious.

Called my machine shop to check the main studs on my World Hemi block . No visible ARP markings on the ends. They'll order new replacements. Should I bill World ?

What's the word Chuck? Haven't heard anything from you.

Posted By: HEMIFRED

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 08/27/10 07:46 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Here is a pic of the broached end, the ARP is obvious.

Called my machine shop to check the main studs on my World Hemi block . No visible ARP markings on the ends. They'll order new replacements. Should I bill World ?

What's the word Chuck? Haven't heard anything from you.

CHUCK has his email listed in his profile. I would think by now it would be overload with questions.

Posted By: snook

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 08/27/10 09:19 PM

Still waiting...

My hemi block should be here early next week and you can bet that I'll be checking the issue ASAP.

Posted By: DarkSideofNY

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 08/27/10 10:05 PM

Gentlemen,

I'd like to introduce myself. My name is Paul Kaufman. I have worked for World Products as a technical representative and engine builder for approximately a decade. I have been building engines professionally for the better part of my life with over 40 years experience in both the private industrial sector and performance speed industry. I have been asked to express my opinion ( and that of World Products ) regarding concerns some of you may have with the main studs utilized on the Mopar iron and aluminum Hemi and Wedge blocks manufactured by World Products. World has manufactured several thousand of both the iron and aluminum blocks in the last few years and recently we have heard that some of these studs have failed when torqued. I have personally assembled many of the Hemi and Wedge engines at World Products, and have not had any issues. I would love to be able to say that there are many torque wrenches that are being used that were manufactured in third world countries and that is the problem, but that would be unfair. World Products does not manufacture studs nor do we import inexpensive hardware from China. The studs used on the Mopar iron blocks are to Mopar's engineering specs and our engineers determined those studs to be of sufficient quality for use on World Products aluminum blocks as well. These studs are not ARP. More recently World Products chose to switch to the ARP brand studs, not because we found them to necessarily be better, but to align ourselves with the hardware being utilized on our Chevy and Ford blocks. I would like to point out that over the years I have experienced failure with hardware manufactured by ARP, but grab another one and move on. I have also experienced a rod breaking or a lifter failing, all from big name brand manufacturers, but that doesn't mean the sets of parts were all defective. The point is sometimes rods break, lifters fail and bolts and studs stretch, break, threads gall, etc. It is the nature of metal objects that have been cast, poured, machined and manipulated that a small percentage will fail, regardless of who manufactured the item. If you find one defective stud that does not mean all the studs are bad. As with most manufacturers, World Products has a warranty policy. Should you find any defect in any of World Products parts or components within one year of purchase simply contact us and we will be more than happy to exchange that defective part. If you would like to change out your hardware to a complete set of ARP studs, you can purchase them from your local ARP dealer or retailer. The caps are located by ring dowels and block registers. The line bore will not be affected. The torque rating on the ARP studs remains the same. Thanks for your time, Paul

Posted By: moparniac

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 08/27/10 10:14 PM

after viewing some of the pics posted I believe I have the chinese crap ones also!

Posted By: moparniac

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 08/27/10 10:16 PM

Quote:

Gentlemen,

I'd like to introduce myself. My name is Paul Kaufman. I have worked for World Products as a technical representative and engine builder for approximately a decade. I have been building engines professionally for the better part of my life with over 40 years experience in both the private industrial sector and performance speed industry. I have been asked to express my opinion ( and that of World Products ) regarding concerns some of you may have with the main studs utilized on the Mopar iron and aluminum Hemi and Wedge blocks manufactured by World Products. World has manufactured several thousand of both the iron and aluminum blocks in the last few years and recently we have heard that some of these studs have failed when torqued. I have personally assembled many of the Hemi and Wedge engines at World Products, and have not had any issues. I would love to be able to say that there are many torque wrenches that are being used that were manufactured in third world countries and that is the problem, but that would be unfair. World Products does not manufacture studs nor do we import inexpensive hardware from China. The studs used on the Mopar iron blocks are to Mopar's engineering specs and our engineers determined those studs to be of sufficient quality for use on World Products aluminum blocks as well. These studs are not ARP. More recently World Products chose to switch to the ARP brand studs, not because we found them to necessarily be better, but to align ourselves with the hardware being utilized on our Chevy and Ford blocks. I would like to point out that over the years I have experienced failure with hardware manufactured by ARP, but grab another one and move on. I have also experienced a rod breaking or a lifter failing, all from big name brand manufacturers, but that doesn't mean the sets of parts were all defective. The point is sometimes rods break, lifters fail and bolts and studs stretch, break, threads gall, etc. It is the nature of metal objects that have been cast, poured, machined and manipulated that a small percentage will fail, regardless of who manufactured the item. If you find one defective stud that does not mean all the studs are bad. As with most manufacturers, World Products has a warranty policy. Should you find any defect in any of World Products parts or components within one year of purchase simply contact us and we will be more than happy to exchange that defective part. If you would like to change out your hardware to a complete set of ARP studs, you can purchase them from your local ARP dealer or retailer. The caps are located by ring dowels and block registers. The line bore will not be affected. The torque rating on the ARP studs remains the same. Thanks for your time, Paul

so your saying to go pound sand pretty much!

Posted By: HEMIFRED

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 08/27/10 10:20 PM

Quote:

so your saying to go pound sand pretty much!

translation buy stock in KB and Indy. No way I buy a World block

Posted By: Quicksilver440

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 08/27/10 10:57 PM

Quote:

Quote:

so your saying to go pound sand pretty much!

translation buy stock in KB and Indy. No way I buy a World block

Posted By: Chris'sBarracuda

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 08/27/10 10:59 PM

KB is back up and running..

Chris..

Posted By: SCATPACK 1

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 08/27/10 11:02 PM

Quote:

Gentlemen,

I'd like to introduce myself. My name is Paul Kaufman. I have worked for World Products as a technical representative and engine builder for approximately a decade. .....
.....World Products does not manufacture studs nor do we import inexpensive hardware from China. The studs used on the Mopar iron blocks are to Mopar's engineering specs and our engineers determined those studs to be of sufficient quality for use on World Products aluminum blocks as well. These studs are not ARP. More recently World Products chose to switch to the ARP brand studs, not because we found them to necessarily be better, but to align ourselves with the hardware being utilized on our Chevy and Ford blocks. ......
If you find one defective stud that does not mean all the studs are bad. As with most manufacturers, World Products has a warranty policy. Should you find any defect in any of World Products parts or components within one year of purchase simply contact us and we will be more than happy to exchange that defective part. If you would like to change out your hardware to a complete set of ARP studs, you can purchase them from your local ARP dealer or retailer. Thanks for your time, Paul

IF you check the cheap studs provided, and those inspected by knowledgable engine builders on this site, you will read the post that stated the threads on the CHEAP Studs were scratchy. Sure sign of low budget inferior studs. It is too bad World has decided to let the studs stand and not be willing to replace them as a whole.
I am REALLY GLAD I saw this post as I have been bidding on an aluminum Hemi block from World on ebay. I will not be going thru with this in light of this response from World. Such BAD Publicity could have easily been corrected by simply replacing the studs or offering, at the very least, to split the cost of replacement to a quality stud set. Just really disappointing. I wonder what there response would have been if it were a bunch of there beloved Chevy blocks that had issues. They have bent over backwards to correct the issues in the past for Chevy customers. Boy, Just disappointing! I suppose Indy or KB will get my money now.

Posted By: B G Racing

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 08/27/10 11:19 PM

Quote:

Gentlemen,

I'd like to introduce myself. My name is Paul Kaufman. I have worked for World Products as a technical representative and engine builder for approximately a decade. I have been building engines professionally for the better part of my life with over 40 years experience in both the private industrial sector and performance speed industry. I have been asked to express my opinion ( and that of World Products ) regarding concerns some of you may have with the main studs utilized on the Mopar iron and aluminum Hemi and Wedge blocks manufactured by World Products. World has manufactured several thousand of both the iron and aluminum blocks in the last few years and recently we have heard that some of these studs have failed when torqued. I have personally assembled many of the Hemi and Wedge engines at World Products, and have not had any issues. I would love to be able to say that there are many torque wrenches that are being used that were manufactured in third world countries and that is the problem, but that would be unfair. World Products does not manufacture studs nor do we import inexpensive hardware from China. The studs used on the Mopar iron blocks are to Mopar's engineering specs and our engineers determined those studs to be of sufficient quality for use on World Products aluminum blocks as well. These studs are not ARP. More recently World Products chose to switch to the ARP brand studs, not because we found them to necessarily be better, but to align ourselves with the hardware being utilized on our Chevy and Ford blocks. I would like to point out that over the years I have experienced failure with hardware manufactured by ARP, but grab another one and move on. I have also experienced a rod breaking or a lifter failing, all from big name brand manufacturers, but that doesn't mean the sets of parts were all defective. The point is sometimes rods break, lifters fail and bolts and studs stretch, break, threads gall, etc. It is the nature of metal objects that have been cast, poured, machined and manipulated that a small percentage will fail, regardless of who manufactured the item. If you find one defective stud that does not mean all the studs are bad. As with most manufacturers, World Products has a warranty policy. Should you find any defect in any of World Products parts or components within one year of purchase simply contact us and we will be more than happy to exchange that defective part. If you would like to change out your hardware to a complete set of ARP studs, you can purchase them from your local ARP dealer or retailer. The caps are located by ring dowels and block registers. The line bore will not be affected. The torque rating on the ARP studs remains the same. Thanks for your time, Paul

Well put Paul,we have seen alot of issues resulting from incorrect torquing methods(torque values or wrong lubricants)as well as bad stud installation or application.We usually make the correction and move on.However even with the dowel rings that locate the main caps(similar to rod caps)the different clamping loads of different fastners would raise the concern for distortions(no mater how small) and would warrant at least checking or honing the line bore for perfect or "near" perfect alignment and fit.I would never change rod bolts(even if the same replacements) without checking or resizing the rod.May I inquire who manufactured the studs that came with the block?Just my opinion

Respectfully Bob

Posted By: sg66mopar

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 08/27/10 11:24 PM

Well, as some of you know I just grenaded my new World blocked 572 a couple weeks ago and destroyed the block. My engine builder called me Monday and during the conversation he said the main caps had been walking and galling pretty badly. He wondered if I was running bad gas or way too much timing but that's not the case. The timing never went over 33 degrees this year and I run K&S 120 (114 octane) race gas.

Now I suspect my motor had the low quality studs in it also. I can't ask him to look at them until Monday but I bet that's the deal.

I need to buy a new block and now I'm wondering what to do. A lot of you here on Moparts say to go with KB but there's some serious drawbacks to that block, at least for my particular setup.

Posted By: Dart of Denmark

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 08/27/10 11:26 PM

Quote:

Gentlemen,

I'd like to introduce myself. My name is Paul Kaufman. I have worked for World Products as a technical representative and engine builder for approximately a decade. I have been building engines professionally for the better part of my life with over 40 years experience in both the private industrial sector and performance speed industry. I have been asked to express my opinion ( and that of World Products ) regarding concerns some of you may have with the main studs utilized on the Mopar iron and aluminum Hemi and Wedge blocks manufactured by World Products. World has manufactured several thousand of both the iron and aluminum blocks in the last few years and recently we have heard that some of these studs have failed when torqued. I have personally assembled many of the Hemi and Wedge engines at World Products, and have not had any issues. I would love to be able to say that there are many torque wrenches that are being used that were manufactured in third world countries and that is the problem, but that would be unfair. World Products does not manufacture studs nor do we import inexpensive hardware from China. The studs used on the Mopar iron blocks are to Mopar's engineering specs and our engineers determined those studs to be of sufficient quality for use on World Products aluminum blocks as well. These studs are not ARP. More recently World Products chose to switch to the ARP brand studs, not because we found them to necessarily be better, but to align ourselves with the hardware being utilized on our Chevy and Ford blocks. I would like to point out that over the years I have experienced failure with hardware manufactured by ARP, but grab another one and move on. I have also experienced a rod breaking or a lifter failing, all from big name brand manufacturers, but that doesn't mean the sets of parts were all defective. The point is sometimes rods break, lifters fail and bolts and studs stretch, break, threads gall, etc. It is the nature of metal objects that have been cast, poured, machined and manipulated that a small percentage will fail, regardless of who manufactured the item. If you find one defective stud that does not mean all the studs are bad. As with most manufacturers, World Products has a warranty policy. Should you find any defect in any of World Products parts or components within one year of purchase simply contact us and we will be more than happy to exchange that defective part. If you would like to change out your hardware to a complete set of ARP studs, you can purchase them from your local ARP dealer or retailer. The caps are located by ring dowels and block registers. The line bore will not be affected. The torque rating on the ARP studs remains the same. Thanks for your time, Paul

What a great support!!!

Posted By: sr4440

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 08/27/10 11:28 PM

well you heard the man, if the cheap a$$ stud fails within one year while you are going down the track and you have massive damage. simply return the one broken stud and they will replace it.

Now if you were one of worlds chevy or ford customer you would never have gotten the cheap stuff.

I am sorry i every bought a World block, i should have stuck with someone that specializes in mopar engines, not someone that added it to their product line as a after thought.

Joe

Posted By: We The People

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 08/27/10 11:42 PM

"I would love to be able to say that there are many torque wrenches that are being used that were manufactured in third world countries and that is the problem, but that would be unfair. "

What a jack ass!

Like you guys building aluminum Hemis are using trash tools to assemble them.... WOW I wont ever give them a dime. you just lost a potential coustomer Paul! How about a coustomer service class...I'm not a pro engine builder by any means, but even I can recognize a crappy fastener when its in my hand...

Posted By: moparniac

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 08/27/10 11:48 PM

World block thread

Posted By: RylisPro

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 08/27/10 11:48 PM

Indy may not be Keith Black but at least their studs are ARP
The cross bolts are marked "DB". Would they matter as much?

Posted By: maximum entropy

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 08/27/10 11:53 PM

Quote:

Well, as some of you know I just grenaded my new World blocked 572 a couple weeks ago and destroyed the block. My engine builder called me Monday and during the conversation he said the main caps had been walking and galling pretty badly. He wondered if I was running bad gas or way too much timing but that's not the case. The timing never went over 33 degrees this year and I run K&S 120 (114 octane) race gas.

Now I suspect my motor had the low quality studs in it also. I can't ask him to look at them until Monday but I bet that's the deal.

I need to buy a new block and now I'm wondering what to do. A lot of you here on Moparts say to go with KB but there's some serious drawbacks to that block, at least for my particular setup.

it stands to reason. when i heard of your catastrophic failure, i was surprised. i'm VERY curious to hear if your engine had the inferior studs.

Posted By: sg66mopar

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 08/28/10 12:16 AM

Don't take my statements the wrong way guys. I'm not blaming my engine failure on the main studs, whether they're ARP or any other brand, or even on the World block itself. I had a rod break, plain and simple. No fault of World Castings.

I'm just wondering if the studs have anything to do with the main cap walk and whether I want to spend my money on another World block.

Posted By: 440Jim

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 08/28/10 12:30 AM

I never saw anything that World said their blocks were supplied with ARP main studs. And they meet the MP specifications which these were made to. Did I miss something?

I did see someone say if you find a defective part during assembly to let them know and they will take care of it.

I think the lack of ARP studs is disappointing, but I don't see anything they did wrong.

Posted By: Hemi Allstate

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 08/28/10 12:47 AM

Quote:

I never saw anything that World said their blocks were supplied with ARP main studs. Did I miss something?

I did see someone say if you find a defective part during assembly to let them know and they will take care of it.

The complete engines were advertised that they use all ARP hardware. But Paul told me today that they do not!

Posted By: maximum entropy

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 08/28/10 12:50 AM

Quote:

I never saw anything that World said their blocks were supplied with ARP main studs. Did I miss something?

I did see someone say if you find a defective part during assembly to let them know and they will take care of it.

their magnanimity is just slightly less than overwhelming.

Posted By: JohnRR

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 08/28/10 12:52 AM

DarksideofNY has only 2 posts , new member , first it's Chuck know it's Paul ... last thing I would be doing is taking the word of someone anonymous hiding behind a keyboard.

You guys with World blocks should be on the phone directly with world and not waiting for answers thru the internet .

Posted By: HEMIFRED

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 08/28/10 12:52 AM

there's no excuse on a 4,000 block to use anything but 1st class studs. Stevie Wonder could have seen these looked like junk by the finish.Where was quality control ? What will be done about those who lost an engine ? blame their torque wrench ?
For a serious suituation they send a paor of gophers to lay some BS on us. The comany president CEO or owner should have jumped top the forefront and at least made some attempt to take part in this matter

Posted By: hvyweight

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 08/28/10 01:10 AM

I can't find my spec sheet. I thought someone said that the sheet or advertisement stated arp hardware?

Posted By: 440Jim

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 08/28/10 01:11 AM

Quote:

The complete engines were advertised that they use all ARP hardware. But Paul told me today that they do not!

Thanks for the clarification. If you have documentation of that and your block came with non-ARP hardware I think you have a good case.

Posted By: Hemi Allstate

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 08/28/10 01:26 AM

Quote:

DarksideofNY has only 2 posts , new member , first it's Chuck know it's Paul ... last thing I would be doing is taking the word of someone anonymous hiding behind a keyboard.

You guys with World blocks should be on the phone directly with world and not waiting for answers thru the internet .

John, I did call World today and I talked to Paul. He told me that he was going to post a response to this thread today, as he had read it.He also said he would have someone else do it as he doesn't have time for forums! Maybe he changed his mind, maybe not.
They are doing nothing about the studs, unless you break one in a block that is within the one year warranty. he feels that the studs furnished are good.
He also said that some of the guys here try to make engine building be rocket science, and it isn't.

Posted By: moparniac

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 08/28/10 01:29 AM

so what kind of studs are they! or didnt he say..

Posted By: Hemi Allstate

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 08/28/10 01:30 AM

Quote:

I can't find my spec sheet. I thought someone said that the sheet or advertisement stated arp hardware?

I checked my sheet and does not say ARP .
My sheet is for the block only.

Posted By: Hemi Allstate

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 08/28/10 01:34 AM

Quote:

so what kind of studs are they! or didnt he say..

No he did not say.He thought we are blowing things out of proportion and that any fastener could fail, even ARP. If I wanted to replace the studs with ARP to make my self sleep better I could, and no further machining was necessary.

Posted By: moparniac

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 08/28/10 01:39 AM

Quote:

Quote:

so what kind of studs are they! or didnt he say..

No he did not say.He thought we are blowing things out of proportion and that any fastener could fail, even ARP. If I wanted to replace the studs with ARP to make my self sleep better I could, and no further machining was necessary.

why would they even use the ARP bolt?
why do they do full ARP now if it dont matter?

what a joke.......

Posted By: dusturbd340W5

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 08/28/10 01:44 AM

first off I have no dog in this fight since I run a lowly small block but I do remember when World came out with these that every one raved on the fact that there was another option and that World had improved a number of things over all the other blocks such as oiling and 2 bolt patterns for different bell housings and such.
Now there is a problem with what seems like a few of the many blocks that was sold and now World is crap I think that some would say that's unfair.
We all have heard the many horror stories about Indy but we still buy there stuff but we have it gone over by someone we trust so they can correct any issues that there is sure to be I just wonder how this is that much different.
If i purchased a new block and saw that the studs where nor ARP I would address that right then not later and all ARP stuff has ARP right on it so there is no guessing.
Again I have no dog in this fight just my

Posted By: moparniac

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 08/28/10 01:53 AM

Its his response that made it all worse.......

Posted By: Deepockets

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 08/28/10 01:54 AM

i've had my own automotive bussiness for 12 years and i view bussiness as a owner that it's not just one sided as for my financial gain. there are times i've reached in my pockets to satisfy the customer as i'm a small shop and value there bussiness. it's worth it to me as i know that i'll have a satisfied custom that will come back and tell there friends what good bussiness dealings they had with me. it would sure be nice if world products would think this way and see all the good replys instead of what there getting now. if the other studs were so good, why would they change them any how. COME ON WORLD PRODUCTS step up and take care of your custoners. i also have one of there alumn blocks with out the good studs

Posted By: SNK-EYZ

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 08/28/10 01:55 AM

I saw this thread and started reading since I have a World iron block waiting to be built.
Part # P5153861 that I bought in Feb 2008.

I just went and looked at the studs.
There's no ARP logo on the studs, just on the nuts.

Posted By: dusturbd340W5

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 08/28/10 02:04 AM

Quote:

i've had my own automotive bussiness for 12 years and i view bussiness as a owner that it's not just one sided as for my financial gain. there are times i've reached in my pockets to satisfy the customer as i'm a small shop and value there bussiness. it's worth it to me as i know that i'll have a satisfied custom that will come back and tell there friends what good bussiness dealings they had with me. it would sure be nice if world products would think this way and see all the good replys instead of what there getting now. if the other studs were so good, why would they change them any how. COME ON WORLD PRODUCTS step up and take care of your custoners. i also have one of there alumn blocks with out the good studs

I agree I run a transmission shop and go out of my way to make sure the costumer is happy and I think World should correct the issue I was just saying a lot of people have come to expect having to correct problems that other manufacture let out of there door but all the sudden when World has a problem with studs on a few blocks all there stuff is now junk.

Posted By: moparniac

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 08/28/10 02:17 AM

Quote:

but all the sudden when World has a problem with studs on a few blocks all there stuff is now junk.

I didnt see anyone say worlds stuff is junk! I think most thinks its "shady" practices and Horrible customer service/response from the "big wig"! which make people not wanna buy from them now. just sayin as this is the way I read it!

Posted By: CompWedgeEngines

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 08/28/10 02:22 AM

I'd like to introduce myself. My name is Paul Kaufman. I have worked for World Products as a technical representative and engine builder for approximately a decade. I have been building engines professionally for the better part of my life with over 40 years experience in both the private industrial sector and performance speed industry. I have been asked to express my opinion ( and that of World Products ) regarding concerns some of you may have with the main studs utilized on the Mopar iron and aluminum Hemi and Wedge blocks manufactured by World Products. World has manufactured several thousand of both the iron and aluminum blocks in the last few years and recently we have heard that some of these studs have failed when torqued. I have personally assembled many of the Hemi and Wedge engines at World Products, and have not had any issues. I would love to be able to say that there are many torque wrenches that are being used that were manufactured in third world countries and that is the problem, but that would be unfair. World Products does not manufacture studs nor do we import inexpensive hardware from China. The studs used on the Mopar iron blocks are to Mopar's engineering specs and our engineers determined those studs to be of sufficient quality for use on World Products aluminum blocks as well. These studs are not ARP. More recently World Products chose to switch to the ARP brand studs, not because we found them to necessarily be better, but to align ourselves with the hardware being utilized on our Chevy and Ford blocks. I would like to point out that over the years I have experienced failure with hardware manufactured by ARP, but grab another one and move on. I have also experienced a rod breaking or a lifter failing, all from big name brand manufacturers, but that doesn't mean the sets of parts were all defective. The point is sometimes rods break, lifters fail and bolts and studs stretch, break, threads gall, etc. It is the nature of metal objects that have been cast, poured, machined and manipulated that a small percentage will fail, regardless of who manufactured the item. If you find one defective stud that does not mean all the studs are bad. As with most manufacturers, World Products has a warranty policy. Should you find any defect in any of World Products parts or components within one year of purchase simply contact us and we will be more than happy to exchange that defective part. If you would like to change out your hardware to a complete set of ARP studs, you can purchase them from your local ARP dealer or retailer. The caps are located by ring dowels and block registers. The line bore will not be affected. The torque rating on the ARP studs remains the same. Thanks for your time, Paul

Wow, has this taken an interesting twist. Let me first explain my position. I have no reason, no hidden agenda, or no ill will against World Products. Have no reason to. I had talked to Paul quite some time ago before PRI and we discussed their engine builder program. It wasnt soemthign that would work for me, so I chose not to participate, as the bulk of what I do is Mopars, and they just didnt have enough other products to assist me in my business. Paul was fine to talk with, and they were at the beginning stages of trying to build up their engine builder program. I alos know that they were NOT building a lot of Mopars out of their shop. I am sure they will say different ( as kind of already stated) , but from one of their employees, in a direct phone call, they simply were not.They are obviously far more concerned with building Chevies. ( and that is fine, I understand).

To come on here and say that we are using cheap offshore torque wrenches, think we are rocket scientists, dont know how to properly torque a main bolt is absolutely appauling.When I say these studs were junk, I am telling you, they were junk. I still have some of them left, so now the thought process should be to go have a stud inpsected at a metallurgical lab, and I bet I can pre-write the diagnosis.

I had another well known and respected builder in my shop when this first came to light. He saw it, felt it, and experienced. So as not to think I was crazy, I took the block to another shop who has a jig bore mill, as I was ready to install Time Sert inserts into the block, as it seemed like the threads were pulling. Although they werent engaging smoothly, I finally realized the threads werent the problem.Once I set up a indicator, and then torqued a ARP stud, and then a World stud, it was VERY clear what was going on. I then inspected the studs closer and it was very evident. My question is now, since they wanted to be better aligned with what they use for their Fords and Chevies, why didnt they just use ARP from the start ?Like they do in their ither engines. I can guarantee you one thing, if Bill Mitchell was building THIS motor,for himself, he wouldnt have used these studs.As you may now realize, I had a ton of time wrapped up in this, making it right.

I am not on a witch hunt. I am merely explaining what I have found. It is truth. Period. I am experienced enough to know the difference. Those of you that know me, know that I dont watse time on the internet in " internet drama" and " internet bashing". I prefer to either just handle things myself, or call the manufacter.The problem is, like many engine builders, your under the gun, have a lot of pressing schedules, and just handle it yourself.I didnt feel from previous experiences with World,( other fellow shops) that they would handle the situation at all. We have now experienced that first hand.

I have had World Hemi blocks, World Wedge blocks, ( cast iron) but have not used a World aluminum block. Cant say anything about those, havent touched one.

Since we are the inexperienced ones, then why would I need to finish milling out several of the water passage holes in the block, repair the large step that was left on the block by the rear main seal area, so bad the retainer wouldnt fit. ( another expense for me)and fix the dowel holes in the decks? I did re-align hone this last block after changing the studs. I simply was not going to even risk anymore issues. Its going in a 7 second dragster, so I didnt want him driving over the crankshaft at 180mph.

In closing, I think their answer is poor. They used something ( dont know whos) other than ARP to save money. I can hardly believe its anything else. ( and that is ok as well, but they should have been of decent quality).I will agree that ANY manufacter can have an issue. ARP, World and so forth. It happens. Its how they handle it that matters. I think you just got a taste of " how they handle it". Basically call us incompetent, internet drama hill billies. Another shame.

Posted By: Al_Alguire

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 08/28/10 02:37 AM

Well not much of a dog in this hunt, I have built three of the World block engines however. So here are a few things to ponder. First off it says nowhere that they use ARP studs correct? So I do not see any issue there. The blocks I have done were all fine, had no issues with stud torque and do not recall any issues with them. However, why ARP nuts but not studs? Seems almost borderline shady, I imagine most folks see the ARP nut and ASSUME the stud is as well. Well you know what they say about assuming anything. I also own a shop and go above and beyond on almost a daily basis to make customers happy. But that is my choice. Seems World does state they will replace any fastener found to be defective within its warranty guidelines. Sounds like the automotive aftermarket manufacturer thing to say, most woudl reply the saem way.

I think World is kinda getting thrown under the bus here. Not totally undeserving however. Seems maybe there was a slight deception going on with the nut/stud deal. But knowledgeable guys know about that issue. Blaming any failure on the end user is well kind of gutless IMO. FWIW I had an issue with a World block. It was a BBC Merlin block. Had the oil gallies drilled into the water jackets. They took care of it and sent out a fresh new block to replace it and told me to keep the bad one. It was subsequently fixed and it still in use now.

SG why is the KB not an option for you? I run one and it works great...

Posted By: Evil Spirit

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 08/28/10 02:40 AM

Quote:

Indy may not be Keith Black but at least their studs are ARP
The cross bolts are marked "DB". Would they matter as much?

Why do the studs only go halfway through the nuts? If that cap is all the way down (which it appears to be) those studs are at least 3-4 threads too short, no matter whose name is on them.

Posted By: RylisPro

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 08/28/10 02:44 AM

Quote:

Why do the studs only go halfway through the nuts?

The motor is not assembled yet and nuts have no torque on them

Posted By: DaveRS23

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 08/28/10 02:49 AM

Although I doubt that World will miss the business, it is looking like their response may cost them more that the cost of a few sets of main studs.

Maybe it will mean a little more business for KB.

Posted By: Bob_Coomer

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 08/28/10 02:53 AM

Where is the "foot in mouth" smiles at?? LOL
Of coarse it was the torque wrench, what was we thinking..
So those bolts were just as good as ARP bolts? Even though World has decided to replace them now with all ARP fasteners just like Ford and Chevy? Why order or deal with them in the first place if you have a contract with ARP for your main supplier?
Bottom line
Money
Money
Money
Money
First let me say that My bolts had NO torque problems, there where cycled at least 3 times minimal. Once when from the factory, I actually checked them when I broke them loose with my torque wrench. Then I slapped in some bearings and measured ID for bearing clearance with the dial bore gauge. Then again during final assembly.
My torque wrench is made by Proto..Its probably 15-20 years old....I check it 2-3 times a year for accuracy. The Snap-On man has a checking tool mounted in his truck..Just takes a few seconds to verify readings...
Let me say its pretty lame to start crying about inferior "China" made torque wrenches, that by chance some might use...
Im just saying this web site reaches people on a global level, and news about bad company ethics and poor parts will spread faster than a snotty nose at the local day care.
Especially In the days of this economy when there is several diff choice of the same part...for the same money..

Posted By: CompWedgeEngines

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 08/28/10 02:59 AM

To clarify, I use Snap On torque wrenches, and actually do calibrate them. Calibration sticker is on them all.I had access to a precision tool and die shop where my brother worked, and he would also certify my mics.Far from Chinese quality.

I also have a KD dial type torque wrench, and it is very accurate.

Posted By: rowin4

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 08/28/10 03:24 AM

Reading through there catalog again and found a interesting paragraph on there chevy short block assembly. "Also available are premium quality ARP fasteners, as used in complete World engines" So I guess the spec. sheet I got with my block was correct it states main studs 1/2"-13. And if I would have bought a complete engine it would have had ARP studs,maybe.
I should have read the chevy spec. sheet and read between the lines also. I'm just changing mine out before machine work just as Paul would say to sleep better at night. $ 125. bucks down but thats just a drop in the bucket for this build.

Posted By: Quicksilver440

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 08/28/10 03:28 AM

I don't think it's "wrong" that they don't use ARP stubs....but using ARP nuts on them to fool people is just wrong.

Posted By: Dabee

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 08/28/10 03:40 AM

Quote:

Hi guys, Im Chuck and I will represent WORLD Products. The ARP stud kit is $112.99 at Summit.
Im also the new MOPAR guy here and am currently building an all aluminum 540cu World HEMI.
So I feel your pain with the studs, I even checked
mine, and they are ARP. Any questions you guys have fire away and I will find you an answer.

The boss over here at World is now aware of the problem and has issued a statement to our foundry where both the iron and aluminum are cast. All if any left non ARP hardware is being discarded.
ONLY ARP hardware will be used and to our knowledge that is what was sold. We are currently going through the HEMI and WEDGE inventory here at WORLD to make sure this does not happen again.

CHUCK

Does any one have the part number for the ARP main stud kit for the world block? I have a new set of ARP studs for an OEM 440 block that I was going to use, but the junk studs out of the world block are longer, so I don�t think the ARP studs I have will work. The shop that is machining my world block told me today that the world studs torque to 100 foot pounds and felt solid. The line bore was dead on. He said they think the studs will be okay. He did say there were other problems with the block. The lifter bores and oil pump shaft busing were both under size and had to be honed. No big deal there. I�m not going to gamble on the world studs. I called Summit and they don�t have a listing for the ARP kit that ol chucky boy at world claims they have for $112.99. Hay chuck, how about giving us a part number? Better yet why doesn�t world man up and stand behind their product and replace the junk studs they installed with ARP studs?

Posted By: rowin4

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 08/28/10 03:49 AM

The Part # for the ARP World block main studs is 145-5603

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 08/28/10 03:53 AM

Quote:

Indy may not be Keith Black but at least their studs are ARP
The cross bolts are marked "DB". Would they matter as much?

One thing I dont like is that the stud ISNT long
enough in the pics.... sure doesnt look like the
stud diameter sticking into the nut... thats a minimum

Posted By: Dabee

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 08/28/10 03:57 AM

Quote:

The Part # for the ARP World block main studs is 145-5603

Thanks, I just ordered a set from Summit!

Posted By: rowin4

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 08/28/10 03:59 AM

Got a e-mail back from Paul on the main cap side bolts . Seems there not all ARP, 12 point head are , 6 point are as he say's generic.
40-45 ft.lbs for the 12 point with oil , DO NOT TORQUE THE 6 POINT BEYOND 35ft.lbs with oil

Posted By: RylisPro

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 08/28/10 04:01 AM

Quote:

One thing I dont like is that the stud ISNT long enough in the pics....

fixed

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 08/28/10 04:05 AM

fixed

Much better... I assume you just backed the stud out
of the block some

Posted By: RylisPro

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 08/28/10 04:11 AM

Quote:

I assume you just backed the stud out of the block some

The block has no crank so the nuts have NO torque I just hand tightened the nut and took a photo...
ah whatever... I give up...

Posted By: Al_Alguire

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 08/28/10 04:25 AM

Quote:

Quote:

I assume you just backed the stud out of the block some

The block has no crank so the nuts have NO torque I just hand tightened the nut and took a photo...
ah whatever... I give up...

Ariel I get it if it helps...When you gonna have that thing done?

Posted By: RylisPro

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 08/28/10 04:31 AM

Quote:

When you gonna have that thing done?

Haha! When I earn the money!

Posted By: DaKuda

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 08/28/10 04:49 AM

Great post. I had an order in for 5 blocks from a dealer. Cancelled and will now be calling Keith Black. This SUCKS World!!!

Posted By: Performance Only

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 08/28/10 05:43 AM

Quote:

These studs are not ARP. More recently World Products chose to switch to the ARP brand studs, not because we found them to necessarily be better, but to align ourselves with the hardware being utilized on our Chevy and Ford blocks.

statements like the one above remind me of campaign promises and legalese doublespeak. utter nonsense comes to mind. i'd like to be more positive, but having witnessed the stud problem firsthand, all i can say is that it's a real problem.
World was already "aligned" with ARP but obviously chose initially not to use the ARP product for some reason. one can only guess the reasoning behind that move and the more recent shift towards ARP.
i wonder how long it'll take for warranty replacement of the defective studs?
I'm happy World (or anyone for that matter) is making Mopar engine blocks, but i've been on the recieving end of thier customer support more than once, and it ranked right up there with lackluster. best of luck to those affected.

Posted By: instigator

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 08/28/10 05:51 AM

Definetly would see about putting more commonly(ARP) performance studs in the buids.....

Guess Mopar was nice enough to me to use somewhat decent bolts in my R3 mains....held up to 2-300 more HP than most of yalls big blocks

Though have stepped up to ARP suds now.

Posted By: Chris'sBarracuda

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 08/28/10 07:05 AM

Quote:

Great post. I had an order in for 5 blocks from a dealer. Cancelled and will now be calling Keith Black. This SUCKS World!!!

All I can say to that is excellent choice.

Keith Black is the BEST choice for aluminum blocks.
Do some have issues? Absolutely..

BUT this company takes care of it's customers..

Check out this thread that is 2 years old. You will see the trend of customer service that is second to none..

https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/show...part=1&vc=1

If you haven't ever seen a KB block first hand... They are a work of art.

I'm just sayin'

Chris..

Posted By: 572stealth

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 08/28/10 11:24 AM

Great post! About 6 months ago I was converting a customers B1MC motor (Alum World block) to Predators and found the main studs streching I replaced them with arp. I have been concerned about this ever since and was wondering if this was a random thing, GUESS NOT!

Posted By: Tobbe

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 08/28/10 04:09 PM

have one world aluminum block ..should soon begin the build ....not funny to here this isue
as i was under the impression that i have got an god quality part

Attached picture 6163606-DSC02978.JPG

Posted By: sg66mopar

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 08/28/10 05:47 PM

Quote:

SG why is the KB not an option for you? I run one and it works great...

Al, my car's all set up for the World Block. I have engine limiters (struts) that come off the factory motor mounts. The KB block has no motor mounts.

Also, I use the Chevy bolt pattern on the World block to mount the 'Glide. In order to use the KB block I'd need to install new engine limiters somewhere and buy a new adapter kit to mount the Glide to the Mopar pattern on the motor.

I think the KB block oils the rockers differently also? Not sure what else might crop up??

I just don't want to re-engineer my whole car in order to change to a different brand block. Not to mention the added expense of the more expensive block, adapter kit, new engine limiters, machine work to oil the rockers, etc etc.

Posted By: maximum entropy

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 08/28/10 06:56 PM

not intending to hijack, but do any of you engine builders measure main stud stretch? i do. my friends think i'm insane like that, but it's just paranoia.

Posted By: B G Racing

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 08/28/10 07:06 PM

We have done a few World block builds with the iron blocks and never had any issues with the bolts.

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 08/28/10 11:43 PM

Quote:

I would like to point out that over the years I have experienced failure with hardware manufactured by ARP, but grab another one and move on.

Really?!?!

I'm sure your vendor really likes getting thrown under the bus in an effort to make you seem less....how shall i say this delicately...retarded!?.

I guess I can't understand the logic in purchasing ARP nuts but not studs?!?

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 08/29/10 12:38 AM

I guess I can't understand the logic in purchasing ARP nuts but not studs?!?

That part is pretty simple.... cost... plus like they
say now... ARP hardware... they arent lying... just
not telling it all

Posted By: Hemi Allstate

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 08/29/10 01:53 AM

Quote:

I guess I can't understand the logic in purchasing ARP nuts but not studs?!?

That part is pretty simple.... cost... plus like they
say now... ARP hardware... they arent lying... just
not telling it all

Although it surely was not their intention, I know of one customer that bought the $4,500 aluminum block and saw the ARP on the main stud nuts, and really did think he had ARP studs!!!

Can you imagine that? He would have paid whatever small additional cost there might have been to get a premium main stud like he puts in all his other much less expensive engines!
Are the Ford and Chevy blocks that get the ARP fasteners more expensive than this HEMI block?

Posted By: rowin4

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 08/29/10 04:31 AM

Quote:

Quote:

I guess I can't understand the logic in purchasing ARP nuts but not studs?!?

That part is pretty simple.... cost... plus like they
say now... ARP hardware... they arent lying... just
not telling it all

Although it surely was not their intention, I know of one customer that bought the $4,500 aluminum block and saw the ARP on the main stud nuts, and really did think he had ARP studs!!!

It states in the catalog:ALSO AVAILABLE ARE PREMIUM QUALITY ARP FASTENERS AS USED IN COMPLETE WORLD ENGINES . I would take that to mean you could up grade when you ordered. This was listed for a chevy. No where does it say that on Hemi or wedge blocks. Just 1/2"-13 studs .

Posted By: 72Challenger

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 08/29/10 10:32 AM

Quote:

Quote:

SG why is the KB not an option for you? I run one and it works great...

Al, my car's all set up for the World Block. I have engine limiters (struts) that come off the factory motor mounts. The KB block has no motor mounts.

Also, I use the Chevy bolt pattern on the World block to mount the 'Glide. In order to use the KB block I'd need to install new engine limiters somewhere and buy a new adapter kit to mount the Glide to the Mopar pattern on the motor.

I think the KB block oils the rockers differently also? Not sure what else might crop up??

Don't know with the wedge version, but on my hemi I had it ordered with motormounts which, now it's in my racecar, I use for limiters too. As far as oiling I just use some '64 alloy heads with stock rochers and stands without any oiling problems. Just had to use external oiling but wanted that anyway. Had zero to complain about my KB.

This on a side note...

Posted By: BB 70 Challenger

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 08/29/10 12:01 PM

Great info here, thanks.

I just checked my World aluminum Hemi short block assembly:
- main cross bolts are ARP
- main studs are no-name, their nuts are ARP
- purchased 02 2009.

I try to attach two photos, now.

Attached picture 6164795-maincrossbolt01.jpg

Attached picture 6164795-maincrossbolt01.jpg

Posted By: BB 70 Challenger

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 08/29/10 12:06 PM

... heh, well, at least I managed to attach one photo... Ok, here comes the other one, I hope:

Posted By: Challenger340

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 08/29/10 03:07 PM

It seems I may have stirred up a bit of a "sh**storm", with my well intentioned CAUTION post originally ?
That was not my intent, however, given subsequent responses, and the prevalence of similar experiences from others finding this Inferior Block Hardware and the Main Stud "Failures" @ Load, I would like to clarify a few things.

* I took issue, with the Mating of genuine ARP Nuts, to NON-ARP Studs in the Block as delivered from World Products.
I, like others on here it seems, find this "questionable" product practise ?

* I also take issue to references from a World Representative, of Foreign made Torque Wrenchs as being an "Unfair", but nonetheless STATED, potential cause for the Stud Failures ?

* Lastly, I am somewhat peeved with further references that World "Engineers"?, have determined "those studs to be of sufficient quality".

In Response to the above;
I will be shipping all the Studs in question, which I feel are defective, for a complete Mettallurgical Analysis, both Destructive Tensile & Non-D, Rockwell, etc., etc., full spectrum.

I am lucky enough to be located Geographically in the Oil & Gas Capital of North America, with some of the most reknowned Industrial Engineering Infrastructure & Testing Facilities in North America close by.
They Test "metals & fasteners" all the time, on everything from Blow-out prevention Fasteners to Sour Gas Well Hardware.
Remember the recent Gulf Oil Spill Fiasco ?
We produce more Oil here in 1 Day, than that entire LEAK spilled in the Gulf!

My point being,
stay tuned,
I WILL have a Full Report on the Studs, and their compliance with any "known" Industrial Standards ASAP.
It will some take time, I will report back when completed.

Personally, If this had to go beyond my original CAUTION post, I would have sincerely hoped, and expected, that World Products would have stepped up, and indicated knowledge of a "suspected" supply chain management problem involving Wrong Main Stud hardware, and asked for imput from those affected for some kind of remediation effort ?
Just Good Business in my opinion only.

I sincerely hope, that the Stud Analysis when completed, is NOT akin to a rating of the Cheapest poor quality fasteners available, and NON Compliant with any "known" Industrial Technical Grading ?
THAT, would sincerely compromise any Findings by World "Engineers" of Fastener suitability ?

I Thank You for your time, and apologize to this Boards Onwers, for using up valuable Bandwidth, on what should have been a NO BRAINER Caution report.

Posted By: GregCon

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 08/29/10 03:13 PM

BC is the oil and gas and capital of North America? I find that hard to believe.

Posted By: HEMIFRED

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 08/29/10 03:36 PM

Quote:

* I also take issue to references from a World Representative, of Foreign made Torque Wrenchs as being an "Unfair", but nonetheless STATED, potential cause for the Stud Failures ?

I am not here to defend his post. A few others have made mention that we were accused of using junk Foriegn made torque wrenches but read his post again. He never accused anyone of that if you read it as I did he was not in any way going to lay that as being the cause.In fact I think he was disregarding it as possible and unfounded excuse ,

Quote:

I would love to be able to say that there are many torque wrenches that are being used that were manufactured in third world countries and that is the problem, but that would be unfair.

Posted By: keelsracing

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 08/29/10 03:38 PM

have to ask how is the starter mounted when using a chevy bellhousing glide???
and what starter is being used???

Posted By: HEMIFRED

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 08/29/10 04:02 PM

Quote:

have to ask how is the starter mounted when using a chevy bellhousing glide???
and what starter is being used???

Mopar mini starter in stock position and notch the bell
or if you don't want to notch the bell use CSR without the nose. others here say they have cut off the Mopar nose and didn't touch the bell with no problems

Posted By: Quicktree

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 08/29/10 04:19 PM

Quote:

Personally, If this had to go beyond my original CAUTION post, I would have sincerely hoped, and expected, that World Products would have stepped up, and indicated knowledge of a "suspected" supply chain management problem involving Wrong Main Stud hardware, and asked for imput from those affected for some kind of remediation effort ?
Just Good Business in my opinion only.

I don't think you will ever see that. that would make them liable for all kinds of failures

Posted By: Hemi Allstate

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 08/29/10 04:36 PM

Any theory as to why the Ford and Chevies get the ARP hardware?

Posted By: Quicktree

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 08/29/10 04:40 PM

Quote:

Any theory as to why the Ford and Chevies get the ARP hardware?

they sell more of them, making the cost go down. only problem I see is the hint of deception with the ARP nuts. if they hadn't used them they would have easily been discovered.

Posted By: moparniac

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 08/29/10 05:01 PM

Quote:

if they hadn't used them they would have easily been discovered.

they knew thats exactly what they were doing.... "deception"

Posted By: keelsracing

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 08/29/10 05:30 PM

as far as the mopar mini starter the bolts go to the trans housing is a glide housing drilled and tapped for this???

Posted By: Challenger340

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 08/29/10 05:41 PM

Quote:

BC is the oil and gas and capital of North America? I find that hard to believe.

I have 2 Shop locations, 1 in B.C., the other 3 hrs away in Calgary Alberta.
Alberta being the North American "Capital" I was referencing, (with "proven" Oil reserves second only to Saudi Arabia).

Posted By: Deepockets

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 08/29/10 05:56 PM

they could easily put this fire out, theres still time.

Posted By: Performance Only

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 08/29/10 06:49 PM

Quote:

they could easily put this fire out, theres still time.

sure they could, and yes there is...
i'm sure they're only looking at the immediate bottom line at this point. any major manufacterer would have issued a recall. that would likely be very expensive and it also admits that the problem is widespread. instead they choose to replace studs individually which will cost them far less money for the immediate future.
i'm convinced they'd rather let a few engines desintegrate rather than admit any fault.

Posted By: moparniac

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 08/29/10 07:02 PM

Quote:

Quote:

they could easily put this fire out, theres still time.

sure they could, and yes there is...
i'm sure they're only looking at the immediate bottom line at this point. any major manufacterer would have issued a recall. that would likely be very expensive and it also admits that the problem is widespread. instead they choose to replace studs individually which will cost them far less money for the immediate future.
i'm convinced they'd rather let a few engines desintegrate rather than admit any fault.

thats a shame isnt it.......

Posted By: Devilbrad

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 08/29/10 07:08 PM

Quote:

Any theory as to why the Ford and Chevies get the ARP hardware?

Because that is 90% of their business. Imagine if the GM or Ford guys found out they were using fake ARP studs. World would be out of business, LOL

Posted By: varunner

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 08/29/10 07:45 PM

While we're waiting on the metallugical report from Challenger340, does anyone know what specs these studs should meet? I wonder why the world rep. would say that their studs meet mopar specs. It's not a mopar-built block, and not an OEM application. If the ones tested meet ARP specs, or fall way below, the answer is clear. But what are the real minimum specs these studs need to be??

Posted By: moparniac

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 08/29/10 07:59 PM

Quote:

I wonder why the world rep. would say that their studs meet mopar specs. It's not a mopar-built block, and not an OEM application.

Cause World is just plain shady! Bottom line... they seem to have alot of "vague" comments!

Posted By: Hemi Allstate

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 08/29/10 09:57 PM

Quote:

While we're waiting on the metallugical report from Challenger340, does anyone know what specs these studs should meet? I wonder why the world rep. would say that their studs meet mopar specs. It's not a mopar-built block, and not an OEM application. If the ones tested meet ARP specs, or fall way below, the answer is clear. But what are the real minimum specs these studs need to be??

It's my understanding that these blocks were built to replace the MP blocks. My alum. block says MOPAR on it.(see pic) So the World Products tech was saying that MOPAR specs were complied with for the main studs.I would be surprised if these studs will meet OEM requirements if so many are stretching or breaking. It would be interesting to know what those specs are.

Posted By: Teamx

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 08/29/10 11:59 PM

Well, It seems bad news always travels fast! I shipped 3 of these aluminum blocks to Australia earlier this year. Just checked one to find the no name main studs with ARP nuts and cross bolts.It seems to me incomprehensible that World Products are prepared to comprimise the integrity of these blocks and its future reputation to save perhaps $20 or $30 in production costs. Even if the ARP studs were offered as a $50 upgrade on the block purchase I doubt anyone would opt for the no name studs if they were given a choice. I, like others, thought they were fitted with ARP fastners based on the nuts and cross bolts.
AS TO WORLDS REPONSE:
I personaly work in the retail industry here in Australia and to me this could potentialy be a public relations nightmare for the company. In retail we work on the theory that every customer that has a percieved bad experience potentially up to 100 people will here about it directly or indirectly.
From World Products point of view this should be about damage control to there brand. It doesnt matter if their engine builder/representative vouches for the integrity of the studs we are past that now. More than one other competent engine builder has raised legitimate concerns with these studs along with the perception of customers who feel they have been deceived. World Products themselves by changing to ARP fastners in all future blocks only reinforces this perception. We all make mistakes in life knowingly or unknowingly and from a buisness point of view its how you choose to deal with the problem. In the interests of customer relations I feel World Products should offer anyone who purchased a block already and is uncomfortable with the studs a set of ARP free of charge. I hope someone at World Produts reads this post and gives it some consideration.

Posted By: Hemi Allstate

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 08/30/10 12:39 AM

IMHO if going to an after-market block is to be considered an upgrade, to our performance engines, (and I bet World wants us to see it as such) then why would we spend that much money to upgrade to a block fitted with fasteners that could unravel it all?
Consider the upgrades folks here put into the main caps on factory engines, alum main caps, girdles, etc. It is obvious to me we would want the best fasteners in our new after-market blocks. Adjust the selling price accordingly. The Mopar blocks are already more $ than Ford and Chevy.
But wait! They knew it! They did put ARP nuts on them!

Posted By: rowin4

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 08/30/10 04:11 AM

They got it half right, never heard of a ARP nut failing.

Posted By: atoetly

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 08/30/10 02:00 PM

After all the problems I had with my first world aluminum block and now this I will never buy another product from world. I also know for a fact that when I assembled my engine the main studs had no markings on them. So as of this time even after 150 passes my car will be parked until the engine gets torn down.

Posted By: B G Racing

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 08/30/10 02:50 PM

Has anyone got an answer to the manufacture origin of the "no name studs"?

Posted By: moparniac

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 08/30/10 03:03 PM

I can't wait for the metallurgist report!!! WORLD is too much of cowards to man up what "studs" they are... I bet it's cause they don't even know!

Posted By: Hemi Allstate

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 08/30/10 03:33 PM

In Response to the above;
I will be shipping all the Studs in question, which I feel are defective, for a complete Mettallurgical Analysis, both Destructive Tensile & Non-D, Rockwell, etc., etc., full spectrum.

My point being,
stay tuned,
I WILL have a Full Report on the Studs, and their compliance with any "known" Industrial Standards ASAP.

This is great!

I anxiously await your findings!

Posted By: Quicktree

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 08/30/10 03:43 PM

Quote:

Has anyone got an answer to the manufacture origin of the "no name studs"?

yingchanglee

Posted By: Hemi Allstate

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 08/30/10 03:46 PM

FWIW I got this from Yellow Bullet,

The studs were never arp. I worked on the original hemi/wedge blocks from world and I pointed out to Bill Mitchell about the studs and he did not answer my questions. I would put the main studs in finger tight and they would still feel loose. You could wiggle them with your finger tips. I never did like them. Kenny.

Posted By: The Shadow

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 08/30/10 03:51 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Has anyone got an answer to the manufacture origin of the "no name studs"?

yingchanglee

APR China. Chang Jiang Road, Jing Jiang Dong Fang

Posted By: moparniac

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 08/30/10 04:59 PM

Fwiw I would have paid the difference between the china studs and arps !!! Which is proll $105 but I would have paid it !

Posted By: Quicktree

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 08/30/10 06:05 PM

Quote:

Fwiw I would have paid the difference between the china studs and arps !!! Which is proll $105 but I would have paid it !

so would everyone else I bet. only if they knew.

Posted By: atoetly

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 08/30/10 06:24 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Fwiw I would have paid the difference between the china studs and arps !!! Which is proll $105 but I would have paid it !

so would everyone else I bet. only if they knew.

Yes as this will cost way more to correct after the fact than the cost of the arp studs.

Posted By: Hemi Allstate

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 08/30/10 06:45 PM

I see now that the cross bolts on my engine are ARP. With the stud nuts saying ARP, and the cross bolts being ARP, why would we have questioned the studs manufacturer ? An easy way to deceive us.
I would have gladly paid up front for the ARP studs. Like said, it would have saved a bunch of time and money in the long run.

Attached picture 6167143-CopyofHPIM2918.JPG

Attached picture 6167143-CopyofHPIM2918.JPG

Posted By: moparniac

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 08/30/10 08:31 PM

Quote:

I see now that the cross bolts on my engine are ARP. With the stud nuts saying ARP, and the cross bolts being ARP, why would we have questioned the studs manufacturer ? An easy way to deceive us.
I would have gladly paid up front for the ARP studs. Like said, it would have saved a bunch of time and money in the long run.

EXACTLY!!!!!! They knew what they were doing ALL along....

Posted By: Dragula

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 08/30/10 09:26 PM

Bolt manufacturer's aside, has anyone replaced them and remeasured the line hone?

If the bolt stretched when they were tightened before boring, when they are replaced, the size & run-out will be different. I am just curious if anyone has checked.

Posted By: snook

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 08/31/10 09:09 PM

Well my wait is over. I just went to the shop and looked at my brandy new cast iron hemi world block that got delivered yesterday - shipped AFTER they were made aware of the stud issue. Side fasteners = ARP, main stud nuts = ARP, main studs = One Hung Low foundry, Taipei. The studs are going in the trash and I'm biting the bullet for ARP studs. What a bunch of cheap jerkoffs. Other than the idiot corner cutting, it looks like a nice piece.

Posted By: moparniac

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 08/31/10 09:22 PM

Quote:

Well my wait is over. I just went to the shop and looked at my brandy new cast iron hemi world block that got delivered yesterday - shipped AFTER they were made aware of the stud issue. Side fasteners = ARP, main stud nuts = ARP, main studs = One Hung Low foundry, Taipei. The studs are going in the trash and I'm biting the bullet for ARP studs. What a bunch of cheap jerkoffs. Other than the idiot corner cutting, it looks like a nice piece.

world is making a nicer rep for themselves I see......

Posted By: firefighter3931

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 08/31/10 11:39 PM

I have a world iron block that was purchased in the Fall of 2009 and assembled by Dwayne Porter and subsequently dynoed (720hp/720tq)...it's a pump gas 572. When this post came up i spoke with Dwayne and he stated that the main studs on mine torqued up fine. He stated that the studs are good and not to worry about it. This is not a full on effort and if it were i would have better hardware in there anyway....including the crank & rods.

Perhaps World has changed suppliers in the past year ? That could certainly account for the soft metal fastner that a few of the reputable engine builders have described.

Ron

Posted By: Bishop

World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 08/31/10 11:43 PM

Is this "Problem" only with Aluminum block studs or is it with the cast iron blocks Also? We have a 572 cast iron motor, we better pull the pan the way it sounds

Brian

Posted By: snook

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 09/01/10 12:29 AM

I got a WORLD hemi cast iron block YESTERDAY and it has the non-ARP suspect studs. They will be replaced with ARP hardware. Good luck.

Posted By: moparniac

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 09/01/10 12:37 AM

Quote:

I got a WORLD hemi cast iron block YESTERDAY and it has the non-ARP suspect studs. They will be replaced with ARP hardware. Good luck.

I'm surprised he the World rep guy hasn't tried to cover up this issue with shady terminology yet even though it was stated they changed to arp for mysterious reasons!!!

Posted By: FHW

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 09/01/10 02:29 AM

Thank you challenger 340 for bringing this potential problem to my attention,my new world block was prep by Ohio crank.I also saw ARP nuts and thought i had the best studs also,but as pointed out who knows what we have.I have checked these studs with thread mics and the major dia and pitch dia was perfect that is on the long studs,that was not the case with the 2 shorter #5 position these where streched as you had found .the pitch dia and major dia are way under tolerance this happend in the area of thread that did not enter the block threads.This indicates to me that this is a very bad thing.As i said before ARP only way to go.

Posted By: CompWedgeEngines

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 09/01/10 02:59 AM

I still believe there are motors out there that people simply didnt " catch" this problem. Between inexperience, in a rush, "thinking" it didnt feel right but using them anyways, not knowing, or lastly just not caring, they are out there.There seems to be some that may be different or ok, just dont know when.

It would have been very easy for some to just use them and not really know what they were experiencing.The design of the bad studs is just that, bad. No comparison to the rolled ARP threads, undercut, chamfer etc, not taking into account the actual tensile strength , hardeneing or overall soundness.

I have already changed out several "studs only" for the mains, as well as gotten new complete kits for members here and my own clientelle. I think if nothing else, they all are resting better. The " bad" ones really are BAD.

Posted By: Bob_Coomer

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 09/01/10 03:43 AM

These bolts arent ARP. Like I say I never had any issues with torque settings. At this point, its too late. I dont plan to take the engine out of the car now that its running, take it apart, replace the bolts and hone the block if needed. I had no torque problems during assembly, the bolts did get cycled 3x's or more.I will replace the bolts at a later date during a routine freshening....I hope...

Posted By: FHW

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 09/01/10 05:13 AM

Bob those cross bolts are the same type as my block came with ,at the low tq these get i do not think any problems should show up,mine miced fine and showed no sign of wear.

Posted By: Teamx

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 09/01/10 08:16 AM

OK, I have done some research on these main studs.If you already have the ARP cross bolts and ARP nuts on the "no name" studs, you can replace the main studs with ARP #AR4.620-1LB X 8 and #AR4.400-1LB X 2. I did a google search and vendors have them for aprox. $5.50 each.

Posted By: CompWedgeEngines

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 09/01/10 02:18 PM

That is correct, and your part numbers are correct. I posted way back in the post the part numbers for new stud kits. I dont think the side bolts are of any issue.

Everyone can make up there own mind, make their decision based on whatever it is thats important to them, and move on. I am burying this dead horse from my perspective, because their still seems to be people that dont believe this is an issue or dont believe the findings. We all have our own opinions and choices. Good luck to all.

Posted By: cudarex

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 09/01/10 04:27 PM

Quote:

That is correct, and your part numbers are correct. I posted way back in the post the part numbers for new stud kits. I dont think the side bolts are of any issue.

Everyone can make up there own mind, make their decision based on whatever it is thats important to them, and move on. I am burying this dead horse from my perspective, because their still seems to be people that dont believe this is an issue or dont believe the findings. We all have our own opinions and choices. Good luck to all.

Todd, are you having to rehone the blocks

Posted By: sr4440

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 09/01/10 08:46 PM

Quote:

OK, I have done some research on these main studs.If you already have the ARP cross bolts and ARP nuts on the "no name" studs, you can replace the main studs with ARP #AR4.620-1LB X 8 and #AR4.400-1LB X 2. I did a google search and vendors have them for aprox. $5.50 each.

Teamx

thanks for the part numbers, I ordered the studs online and they will be shipped to my door for under $55. I can�t believe all the ill will that World is willing to endure over $50, this has to be one of the dumbest business decisions I have ever seen.

Joe

Posted By: ZIPPY

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 09/01/10 10:12 PM

If a guy didn't know any better, he'd think the stud part numbers must be wrong because World Products lists both studs being compatable with two different Chevy blocks but not anything else...

http://www.worldcastings.com/images/ARP%20WORLD%20MASTER%20KIT.pdf

So, as it turns out they had the right studs the whole time.

Per R--, the machine shop (neither owned nor operated by World Products), proper stud torque is 85 ft lbs with moly. This is the torque spec used when the blocks are align honed. The machine shop has never broken a stud at 85 ft lbs, ever. However, World's info from 4 years ago stated the torque spec is 100 ft lbs with no lube recommendation, somehow that got carried over to I sheets and is in the process of being corrected.

Per the machine shop, the supplier of the no name main studs is (guess who?) World Products.

Shifting the blame to "the foundry" earlier in this thread was pretty funny. A foundry doesn't use any fasteners at all, so how was it their fault? And the foundry mark on my iron block is "DF" (with a backwards "D".....I'm pretty sure the Da---- Foundry isn't owned or operated by World Products either, and I'm pretty sure they are using Chrysler's million dollar tooling to produce the engine blocks we are discussing here.

So this all leaves me to wonder:

What exactly was the point of using ARP nuts, but nothing else? Was the belief generic Mc Master Carr hardware is good enough for us Mopar guys, but only beloved Chevy customers get the GOOD hardware? Or was it since the block says Mopar on it, the assumption was people would just blame Mopar for the garbage hardware? I think we can all see how that deal worked out, and I think we all know who's at fault here.

I can't share any more of the research I've done on this topic, however I've looked into it far enough to see that it stinks to high heaven.

I know where I'll stand when it comes time to weigh in on this supplier at work.

Posted By: instigator

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 09/02/10 12:20 AM

I bought some studs and nuts fro, mcmastercarr not long ago...they came in ARP!

Posted By: sg66mopar

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 09/02/10 12:58 AM

Just got off the phone with my engine builder. He looked at the studs out of my World block and they're not ARP. He did say that they torqued OK when he assembled the motor but we both think the cap walk I've had could have been partly caused by the studs.

So whatever I end up doing for a new motor, it's gonna have ARPs.

Posted By: rowin4

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 09/02/10 01:21 AM

My spec sheet says torque to 100 ft.lbs. with oil. Could this be where the stretched studs are coming from? 85ft.lbs. with ARP lube. Someone using the 100 ft.lbs. torque with ARP lube?

Posted By: Ron Silva

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 09/02/10 05:11 AM

Quote:

My spec sheet says torque to 100 ft.lbs. with oil. Could this be where the stretched studs are coming from? 85ft.lbs. with ARP lube. Someone using the 100 ft.lbs. torque with ARP lube?

I think you might have something there. A malfunction of all the people complaining on here. I will admit I have not read every post but I bet you guys are burying world over something that is not even a valid problem on their part.

My MOPAR R3 Race Block was supplied with normal production type grade 8 Bolts and mopar would not send it out like that if it would automatically blow up using the supplied hardware. In that case I would use oil as lube and torque to factory specs or the specs in the instruction sheet. Common sense. If I wanted I could upgrade to ARP hardware and use more clamping load and re-hone the mains.

The ARP studs are 200K tensile strength and I am sure the supplied fasteners were not that strong. "BUT", that does not mean that they are junk or chinese made etc. A lot of you guys should be ashamed talking like that.

I am fairly confident if you built your motor with the supplied hardware and followed the instructions your motor would be fine. If you are going to build big power then upgrading the hardware is your descision as it is with ANY engine build.

Posted By: Performance Only

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 09/02/10 12:15 PM

Quote:

Quote:

My spec sheet says torque to 100 ft.lbs. with oil. Could this be where the stretched studs are coming from? 85ft.lbs. with ARP lube. Someone using the 100 ft.lbs. torque with ARP lube?

I think you might have something there. A malfunction of all the people complaining on here. I will admit I have not read every post but I bet you guys are burying world over something that is not even a valid problem on their part.

that's a strange way of looking at things. World supplied the block, the fasteners and the spec sheet. are you suggesting that every person that has had issues with the supplied studs either over torqued them, or somehow made them magically stretch like silly putty why???

i guess the problem is now solved. nobody knows how to properly assemble an engine. amazing...

Posted By: sr4440

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 09/02/10 12:36 PM

Quote:

Quote:

My spec sheet says torque to 100 ft.lbs. with oil. Could this be where the stretched studs are coming from? 85ft.lbs. with ARP lube. Someone using the 100 ft.lbs. torque with ARP lube?

I think you might have something there. A malfunction of all the people complaining on here. I will admit I have not read every post but I bet you guys are burying world over something that is not even a valid problem on their part.

when i 1st read your post, i thought, maybe you should have read a little more before posting. I am sure all the engine builders will take exception to what you said.

this reminds me of a quote
"i don't know what happen" in the same breath "the police acted stupidly"

Joe

Posted By: RT540

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 09/02/10 12:54 PM

I have read all posts on this thread and I can�t see anything wrong with the critic.
Most mopar BB suffers from bad cap walk, even at low hp so these studs are probably one of the worst ones to downgrade quality on.
If you could use even higher quality material like in the 2k2 rod bolts, and the torque could be increased. It should help reduce the cap walk.
World did just the opposite

Posted By: supercomp

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 09/02/10 05:24 PM

How you doing Tom?

Posted By: RT540

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 09/02/10 06:03 PM

Hi Allen, I am doing fine, thanks for asking, don�t post much right now,but I will get better at posting, once I have some progress on my own to show

Posted By: snook

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 09/02/10 11:56 PM

John Doe huh?

Posted By: Performance Only

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 09/03/10 01:08 PM

Quote:

John Doe huh?

could have changed it to something like;
"i said something really dumb and now i want to hide"

Posted By: Quicktree

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 09/03/10 01:39 PM

Quote:

Quote:

John Doe huh?

could have changed it to something like;
"i said something really dumb and now i want to hide"

I think he own's a large CI small block

Posted By: Deepockets

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 09/08/10 03:14 AM

this is a good one. on my aluminum block ( not assembled yet) i was given 2 arp main studs and the rest are the unknown brand. i did order from summit today the full set of arp's. summit has them as out of stock, but arp has plenty of them. they had arp drop ship them to me a no extra charge. ...............the saga continues

Posted By: rowin4

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 09/08/10 08:45 PM

I bet they would be out of stock after every one that found out they had crap studs in their World Products blocks. Should have bought stock in ARP.

Posted By: Dyno1

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 09/15/10 08:02 PM

Any new news? Dyno

Posted By: moparniac

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 09/30/10 10:35 PM

bump for an update!...

Posted By: moparniac

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 09/30/10 10:43 PM

Quote:

OK, I have done some research on these main studs.If you already have the ARP cross bolts and ARP nuts on the "no name" studs, you can replace the main studs with ARP #AR4.620-1LB X 8 and #AR4.400-1LB X 2. I did a google search and vendors have them for aprox. $5.50 each.

has anyone ordered these yet and to be the correct part numbers

Posted By: CompWedgeEngines

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 09/30/10 11:32 PM

I have been using these for months and months...they are the correct numbers.

Posted By: moparniac

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 09/30/10 11:42 PM

Quote:

I have been using these for months and months...they are the correct numbers.

Posted By: rowin4

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 10/01/10 01:40 AM

I'm always a day late and now a few more dollars short as I ordered the whole kit before I read about the stud only part #. Do have some extra ARP nuts now.

Posted By: moparniac

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 10/18/10 11:16 PM

Bump!!! Any metal reports yet??? Speed shop called and my studs showed up!!!! Anyone need any
Chinese
Ones?

Posted By: Keith Black®

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 10/19/10 02:14 AM

Quote:

Well, It seems bad news always travels fast! I shipped 3 of these aluminum blocks to Australia earlier this year. Just checked one to find the no name main studs with ARP nuts and cross bolts.It seems to me incomprehensible that World Products are prepared to comprimise the integrity of these blocks and its future reputation to save perhaps $20 or $30 in production costs. Even if the ARP studs were offered as a $50 upgrade on the block purchase I doubt anyone would opt for the no name studs if they were given a choice. I, like others, thought they were fitted with ARP fastners based on the nuts and cross bolts.
AS TO WORLDS REPONSE:
I personaly work in the retail industry here in Australia and to me this could potentialy be a public relations nightmare for the company. In retail we work on the theory that every customer that has a percieved bad experience potentially up to 100 people will here about it directly or indirectly.
From World Products point of view this should be about damage control to there brand. It doesnt matter if their engine builder/representative vouches for the integrity of the studs we are past that now. More than one other competent engine builder has raised legitimate concerns with these studs along with the perception of customers who feel they have been deceived. World Products themselves by changing to ARP fastners in all future blocks only reinforces this perception. We all make mistakes in life knowingly or unknowingly and from a buisness point of view its how you choose to deal with the problem. In the interests of customer relations I feel World Products should offer anyone who purchased a block already and is uncomfortable with the studs a set of ARP free of charge. I hope someone at World Produts reads this post and gives it some consideration.

Posted By: 451Mopar

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 10/19/10 07:49 AM

Has anyone taken the suspected bad studs to be tested and see if they even meet minimum specifications? I know my collage has the equipment to do tensile, shear and hardness testing.

Posted By: julian2007

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 10/19/10 04:38 PM

So with the arp studs what is the correct torque speck and what is the correct lube?
Thanks,Bruce

Posted By: camastomcat

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 10/19/10 04:55 PM

I'm in Australia and I have one of those blocks. Will get the replacement studs in any event, and most definitely agree with your comments.

At least some of us found out before the block has gone into use (phew).

It does raise SERIOUS concerns about the integrity of the block overall. Any feedback on this would good... I see someone windowed a World block not long ago on this site ....
I have one that was the most consistant and trouble free 572 B1 motor I have built to date. I had my machinest check the studs and they were ARP, so we put it together and I'll be using it next year. It makes 1000+ so, I wouldn't be afraid of them. And I think the other guy that windowed one was 66CHARGER, or something in Oregon. That had nothing to do with the block.

Posted By: moparniac

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 11/20/10 05:56 AM

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I have been using these for months and months...they are the correct numbers.

thx for the info again man! block is ready to be put back together... no more chinese studs

Posted By: sg66mopar

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 11/25/10 03:00 AM

Well, I finally got a new block to replace the one I sawed in half. Now I need the ARP stud kit. Summit and Jegs (UGH) are out almost two weeks. Anybody know where to get them faster. Just for reference the part number is 145-5603.

BTW, not interested in flak from the World Products haters. It's what I'm usin' and that's that!

Also BTW, I've got a good used, low mile World Aluminum block for sale. It's already been pre-lightened and has some good ventilation on each side so it shouldn't overheat.

Posted By: moparniac

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 11/25/10 03:02 AM

this is what I got from another member posted

OK, I have done some research on these main studs.If you already have the ARP cross bolts and ARP nuts on the "no name" studs, you can replace the main studs with ARP #AR4.620-1LB X 8 and #AR4.400-1LB X 2. I did a google search and vendors have them for aprox. $5.50 each.

Posted By: rowin4

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 11/25/10 05:55 AM

Quote:

Well, I finally got a new block to replace the one I sawed in half. Now I need the ARP stud kit. Summit and Jegs (UGH) are out almost two weeks. Anybody know where to get them faster. Just for reference the part number is 145-5603.

BTW, not interested in flak from the World Products haters. It's what I'm usin' and that's that!

Also BTW, I've got a good used, low mile World Aluminum block for sale. It's already been pre-lightened and has some good ventilation on each side so it shouldn't overheat.

Sounds like the item your trying to sell just don't hold water.

Posted By: CompWedgeEngines

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 11/25/10 04:03 PM

I believe I have the stud kits and individual studs at the shop. I wont be there today, ( hopefully!), but I can check tommorrow. Drop me a PM or vica versa.

Posted By: The Shadow

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 01/21/11 02:36 PM

Now that world appears no longer affiliated with mopar they have started using arp main studs.
Sort of late for those of us who already have a world block.

Posted By: rowin4

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 01/21/11 05:19 PM

Where did you get that information?

Posted By: moparniac

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 01/21/11 06:02 PM

The part numbers are posted above for the stud replacements! I got them and they are right !!! I threw the other ones away !

Posted By: The Shadow

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 01/21/11 11:51 PM

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Where did you get that information?

I saw the new blocks at FHO
Mopar p/n and name machined off the blocks
New studs
Added 1/8 npt plugs in the lifter valley on each side of the oil holes.
Just a few things I

Posted By: moparniac

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 05/15/11 05:52 AM

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Gentlemen,

I'd like to introduce myself. My name is Paul Kaufman. I have worked for World Products as a technical representative and engine builder for approximately a decade. I have been building engines professionally for the better part of my life with over 40 years experience in both the private industrial sector and performance speed industry. I have been asked to express my opinion ( and that of World Products ) regarding concerns some of you may have with the main studs utilized on the Mopar iron and aluminum Hemi and Wedge blocks manufactured by World Products. World has manufactured several thousand of both the iron and aluminum blocks in the last few years and recently we have heard that some of these studs have failed when torqued. I have personally assembled many of the Hemi and Wedge engines at World Products, and have not had any issues. I would love to be able to say that there are many torque wrenches that are being used that were manufactured in third world countries and that is the problem, but that would be unfair. World Products does not manufacture studs nor do we import inexpensive hardware from China. The studs used on the Mopar iron blocks are to Mopar's engineering specs and our engineers determined those studs to be of sufficient quality for use on World Products aluminum blocks as well. These studs are not ARP. More recently World Products chose to switch to the ARP brand studs, not because we found them to necessarily be better, but to align ourselves with the hardware being utilized on our Chevy and Ford blocks. I would like to point out that over the years I have experienced failure with hardware manufactured by ARP, but grab another one and move on. I have also experienced a rod breaking or a lifter failing, all from big name brand manufacturers, but that doesn't mean the sets of parts were all defective. The point is sometimes rods break, lifters fail and bolts and studs stretch, break, threads gall, etc. It is the nature of metal objects that have been cast, poured, machined and manipulated that a small percentage will fail, regardless of who manufactured the item. If you find one defective stud that does not mean all the studs are bad. As with most manufacturers, World Products has a warranty policy. Should you find any defect in any of World Products parts or components within one year of purchase simply contact us and we will be more than happy to exchange that defective part. If you would like to change out your hardware to a complete set of ARP studs, you can purchase them from your local ARP dealer or retailer. The caps are located by ring dowels and block registers. The line bore will not be affected. The torque rating on the ARP studs remains the same. Thanks for your time, Paul

so your saying to go pound sand pretty much!

sounds like it!

Posted By: pittsburghracer

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 05/15/11 07:36 AM

Buy a Keith Black block and they stand behind their product.

Posted By: moparniac

Re: World Aluminum Block Main Studs CAUTION - 05/21/11 04:57 AM

nice ^^^

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