Moparts
ubly results
Posted By: mopar dave
ubly results - 07/11/10 02:24 PM
off the trailer car went 2 tenths and 2 mph slower. changed carb spacer to a 1" open from a 4 hole tappered and picked up .5 mph in 1/4 but lost .5 in the 1/8 with same et. changed jetting to 87/96 from 86/94 ran almost identicle et/mph. carb seems insensitive to jet changes,so i put 90/98 jets in and lost 2 mph and one tenth,but put some color on plug,grey. plugs have been white up to this point. ran into EDDIEB there,great guy. he suggested smaller high speed air bleeds,i agree. fuel pressure thru the traps was 7psi. any ideas?
Posted By: MR_P_BODY
Re: ubly results - 07/11/10 02:36 PM
Quote:
off the trailer car went 2 tenths and 2 mph slower. changed carb spacer to a 1" open from a 4 hole tappered and picked up .5 mph in 1/4 but lost .5 in the 1/8 with same et. changed jetting to 87/96 from 86/94 ran almost identicle et/mph. carb seems insensitive to jet changes,so i put 90/98 jets in and lost 2 mph and one tenth,but put some color on plug,grey. plugs have been white up to this point. ran into EDDIEB there,great guy. he suggested smaller high speed air bleeds,i agree. fuel pressure thru the traps was 7psi. any ideas?
Well you know you can slow the car down by adding
jet so you have enough supply... jet back down to
find the fastest MPH... MPH is the hp... ET is chassis
once you find the fastest MPH then start doing the
spacer chances and then you need to start all over
again to find the fastest MPH... you need to optimize
each combo... just to change the spacer and say that
didnt work without optimizing wouldnt be correct... JMO
Posted By: ChrgrCuda
Re: ubly results - 07/11/10 02:37 PM
I lost 5 mph and 3 tenths last time out, 68 notch, small block stroker. I square jetted and removed PV, but didn't jet up. Just a thought.
Posted By: Ian
Re: ubly results - 07/11/10 05:23 PM
dave did you contact the people help you out with the changes you made , what did they say ? did you change converter ? what was your 8 th mile times and 60 ft
Posted By: mopar dave
Re: ubly results - 07/11/10 07:41 PM
the spacer change alone was worth .5 mph gain without any jetting. i added jet after that and lost just a smidgen of mph til i went up 4 sizes front and back and lost about 2 mph,but the plug was still light grey in color after getting back to the pit.
Ian, the best 1/8 was a
6.88@99.50 mph.
why would the plugs be so light in color with so much jet in a 1000hp (90/98)?
Posted By: HardcoreB
Re: ubly results - 07/12/10 12:20 PM
Thanks for reporting back from your visit Dave...When you going out next? Maybe we'll all coordinate another track day. Your mph shows the potential for 2-3 tenths E.T. But if your 1/8 MPH is only 99/100 MPH then your incrementals are all over the place and studying them will lead tobetter times.
Posted By: Labratt
Re: ubly results - 07/12/10 01:16 PM
Posted By: mopar dave
Re: ubly results - 07/12/10 01:43 PM
it will be about a month before i can go out again. i have a friend that just put together a 440 small block with ported chapman w7's and he will be calling me out to mid michigan after he gets track ready. i need to save my tires for this event. i'm thinking that maybe the lean issue could be the smaller pv i put in there (3.5) it had a 6.5. maybe its closing up at high rpm and causing the lean issue or maybe the HAB's need tuning at this point. anyway,i think it may be better at this point to go back to A&A's chassis dyno to figure this and then back to the track for final jetting. this would save my tires.i feel like i'm chasing my tail at this point.
Posted By: mopar dave
Re: ubly results - 07/12/10 03:46 PM
pics of my plugs.
Posted By: mopar dave
Re: ubly results - 07/12/10 03:48 PM
another
Posted By: mopar dave
Re: ubly results - 07/12/10 03:51 PM
another pic
Posted By: tboomer
Re: ubly results - 07/12/10 03:52 PM
Dave....Sure wish mine looked that good!!
Posted By: MR_P_BODY
Re: ubly results - 07/12/10 04:09 PM
Quote:
the spacer change alone was worth .5 mph gain without any jetting. i added jet after that and lost just a smidgen of mph til i went up 4 sizes front and back and lost about 2 mph,but the plug was still light grey in color after getting back to the pit.
Ian, the best 1/8 was a [Email]6.88@99.50[/Email] mph.
why would the plugs be so light in color with so much jet in a 1000hp (90/98)?
Looking at the plugs you arent lean(hard to see it
all and I understand you drove back to the pit...
jet it for MPH
EDIT
I see its 1/8 mile times... did they run any 1/4
mile there any more
Posted By: mopar dave
Re: ubly results - 07/12/10 04:51 PM
yes,we were runnin 1/4 mile tnt and grudge. 1/8 racing is on sunday.
Posted By: MR_P_BODY
Re: ubly results - 07/12/10 05:12 PM
Quote:
yes,we were runnin 1/4 mile tnt and grudge. 1/8 racing is on sunday.
Posted By: mopar dave
Re: ubly results - 07/12/10 06:25 PM
i was jetting for mph,but it was'nt making much differnce in mph no matter how much jet i put in or took away. this carb was like this last year too with alittle different program,but i did have color on the plugs then.
do ya think this might be an indication of the 408 wanting a bigger carb? this is a 1000hp already.
Posted By: HardcoreB
Re: ubly results - 07/12/10 06:58 PM
I believe you have a hood scoop problem. Run a string from the roof to the front of the car...the scoop opening should eclipse this 'plane' for 'clean' air. You could chase your tail troubleshooting suspect parts that change your results and lead you in the wrong direction. D.A.M.H.I.K. LOL
Posted By: mopar dave
Re: ubly results - 07/12/10 07:13 PM
do you think the scoop needs to be sealed to the carb?
Posted By: MR_P_BODY
Re: ubly results - 07/12/10 07:34 PM
Quote:
do you think the scoop needs to be sealed to the carb?
That would help
Posted By: EDDIEB
Re: ubly results - 07/12/10 08:57 PM
Hey Dave did you call Patrick?
EDDIE B
Posted By: tex013
Re: ubly results - 07/12/10 09:57 PM
Dave,my plugs ran the same light colour.had it jetted for max MPH,carb sealed to scoop.with a BG 825
went up from a 3.5 to a 5.5 PV got more colour and picked up 60' and ET.no MPH ?
this a full street and strip car
Tex
Posted By: mopar dave
Re: ubly results - 07/13/10 07:29 AM
thats what i'v been thinking about. i'll put the 6.5 pv back in,its also a high flow pv and put the jetting back to 86/94. with that jetting i ran my 125mph pass at lapeer. i'm going to set up a chassis dyno appointment for next week to get an idea where the peak torque and hp are at as well as the air/fuel sense i can't get any color on the plug.
EDDIEB, i called and emailed patrick,said he'd call monday afternoon. never called. thru email he does'nt think there's a fuel problem.
Posted By: mopar dave
Re: ubly results - 07/13/10 03:14 PM
well, i set up an oppointment with A&A for the dyno for next fri. should help figure this out. i'm headen to the garage to put the carb back together with the 6.5pv and then i'll just drive it awhile and see if i get any color on plugs street driving.
Posted By: GomangoCuda
Re: ubly results - 07/13/10 04:22 PM
I think you are placing way too much importance on the color of the porcellin. Unleaded pump gas does not discolor the porcellin very much if at all. If you expect to read WOT mixture from the porcellin it is clear down at the very bottom and will require a lighted magnifier to see. There are many obsolete articles on the internet about plug reading. Even some of the better articles disagree on the proper things to look at for jetting, timeing and heatrange.
Here are a couple worth reading.
http://www.angelfire.com/fl4/pontiacdude428/Readplugs.html http://cochise.uia.net/pkelley2/sparkplugreading.htmlIf you are at the track I think you should just jet for mph. Check the plugs to help determine if jet stagger is needed, timing is correct and to check for detonation damage.
Posted By: POS Dakota
Re: ubly results - 07/13/10 05:37 PM
Quote:
off the trailer car went 2 tenths and 2 mph slower. changed carb spacer to a 1" open from a 4 hole tappered and picked up .5 mph in 1/4 but lost .5 in the 1/8 with same et. changed jetting to 87/96 from 86/94 ran almost identicle et/mph. carb seems insensitive to jet changes,so i put 90/98 jets in and lost 2 mph and one tenth,but put some color on plug,grey. plugs have been white up to this point. ran into EDDIEB there,great guy. he suggested smaller high speed air bleeds,i agree. fuel pressure thru the traps was 7psi. any ideas?
How does ubly compare to milan? nice track?
Is it always packed?
I have always wanted to go there, but the last time I planned it, I blew my trans. 
Posted By: mopar dave
Re: ubly results - 07/13/10 05:44 PM
i checked the base of the porcellin and there's no color. the ground strap is burned clean to the weld. i took 2* (34*)out and made no difference in color. i'v heard before that unleaded pump gas gives no color,but last years program with same plug gave chocolate brown color on plug with pump gas. also, why is the carb insensitive to jet changes. even timing changes make very little difference in mph or et. i'll read the links you posted. thanks
Posted By: mopar dave
Re: ubly results - 07/13/10 05:46 PM
ubly is better than lapeer. smoother track and nicer bathrooms.
Posted By: GomangoCuda
Re: ubly results - 07/13/10 06:22 PM
just a thought. Are the needle and seat or passages big enough to supply 2 jets that big? That would be one possible explanation for the carb not responding to jet changes.
Posted By: Hemiroid
Re: ubly results - 07/13/10 06:37 PM
Quote:
Quote:
off the trailer car went 2 tenths and 2 mph slower. changed carb spacer to a 1" open from a 4 hole tappered and picked up .5 mph in 1/4 but lost .5 in the 1/8 with same et. changed jetting to 87/96 from 86/94 ran almost identicle et/mph. carb seems insensitive to jet changes,so i put 90/98 jets in and lost 2 mph and one tenth,but put some color on plug,grey. plugs have been white up to this point. ran into EDDIEB there,great guy. he suggested smaller high speed air bleeds,i agree. fuel pressure thru the traps was 7psi. any ideas?
How does ubly compare to milan? nice track?
Is it always packed?
I have always wanted to go there, but the last time I planned it, I blew my trans.
Ubly doesn't really compare to Milan at all. Milan is a much better track by far IMO.
Posted By: mopar dave
Re: ubly results - 07/14/10 05:21 PM
milan is way better than ubly. the carb is a prosystems carb,i would think the seats would be large enough. i put the 6.5pv in and went for a ride. this is a pic of the same plug in the pics above.
Posted By: mopar dave
Re: ubly results - 07/14/10 05:25 PM
thanks tex013 for the suggestion on the pv switch,your right. pics are dark,plugs not that dark in color.
heres another.
Posted By: joedust451
Re: ubly results - 07/14/10 08:40 PM
Dave, that plug is damn near fouled from what i see, You need to read the "base" of the threads for jetting, your running rich (even from the 1st. set of pix), if you get a black dry soot from the flat part of the threads end, its rich, you want a complete burn all around it, but more of a dark brown, You need to jet it "DOWN" in the summer heat & thick air, you jet up in the fall, but you always try & achieve "best" MPH either way.
If you look at those 1st. set of plugs, the porcelin is not white, at least from what i see, there perfect if you ask me, they are light tan, i would try jetting down 2 & 2 from your base jetting before you went up & see what it does.
Posted By: mopar dave
Re: ubly results - 07/15/10 02:33 PM
ok, maybe i'v been going the wrong way on jetting. no popping or surging down the track.
Posted By: mopar dave
Re: ubly results - 07/16/10 05:24 PM
went to a size hotter plug(ngk r5671a-7),i had autolite (ar3934) and jetted 4 jets leaner and went for a 5 mile ride down 75 and it felt great. no popping or surging and ran clean,it sounded crisp and clean. heres a pic of the #1 plug when i got back.
Posted By: mopar dave
Re: ubly results - 07/16/10 05:25 PM
one more.
Posted By: tboomer
Re: ubly results - 07/16/10 05:27 PM
Looks pretty good!!
Posted By: mopar dave
Re: ubly results - 07/16/10 05:47 PM
good. looks like i'm getting closer.
Posted By: HardcoreB
Re: ubly results - 07/16/10 06:27 PM
Dave there are comprehensive details all over the net about reading the spark plugs. There may be some here yet in the archeives. I still would do the string trick 'just to see' if you have 'clean' air to the carb. Eliminating all variables will help you get quickly to its optimal performance.
Posted By: mopar dave
Re: ubly results - 07/16/10 06:33 PM
should the scoop be in the air or out of direct air?
Posted By: mopar dave
Re: ubly results - 07/16/10 06:47 PM
the scoop catch'es the air but barely. heres a pic.
Posted By: joedust451
Re: ubly results - 07/16/10 07:32 PM
Quote:
went to a size hotter plug(ngk r5671a-7),i had autolite (ar3934) and jetted 4 jets leaner and went for a 5 mile ride down 75 and it felt great. no popping or surging and ran clean,it sounded crisp and clean. heres a pic of the #1 plug when i got back.
Told Ya!! Plug looks alot better, I should be the one to talk about leaning out in the heat 
, i'm still running fat & my plugs are Dark, i need to lean mine out, Now what you should do is go back to that colder plug, its best to run as cold as possible without fouling
Dave, whats your compression? You may want a -8 if its 11.5-12.5, but thats with iron heads, Try jetting down a bit more like 2 & 2, that plug looks really good, but still a tad rich, you'll know/feel if you went too far, it just won't pull quit as strong, then just jet back up, of coarse track testing is best, but if you know how your car feels (which you should), it won't be hard to notice the differences
Posted By: mopar dave
Re: ubly results - 07/16/10 09:03 PM
compression is 10.6 to be exact.
Posted By: HardcoreB
Re: ubly results - 07/17/10 01:04 PM
Quote:
the scoop catch'es the air but barely. heres a pic.
Excellant work with pic. Now you know you have a variable if/when you are chasing jetting anomalies and ultimately performance. Now if you factor-in the lift the hood sees at speed you may be ok, MAY, I say. The worst scenario would have the airstream siphoning air from the scoop/carb but, you should be ok, SHOULD. Have I beat a dead horse enough? LOL. For certain, (8 o'clock day one!) I would seal or at least isolate the carb from the incoming radiator air (mixture).
Posted By: mopar dave
Re: ubly results - 07/18/10 02:09 PM
i going to see if there is a way to glue a piece of medium sheet metal to the hood to seal it up. maybe liquid nails or something like that. any idea's you can give? does anybody make something for the six pack hoods to seal them up? maybe i could just glue some foam to the hood and make a sheet metal plate to mount on the carb,but then i'd have to figure out how to get a 4" filter in there.
Posted By: ChrgrCuda
Re: ubly results - 07/18/10 03:05 PM
I have the same car as you, same hood. I took some sheet metal from a fellow dirt track racer, don't recall the thickness, but it's pretty thin. Cut it square, made template for carb and drilled holes for the bowl screws. Then bought some aluminum angle from Home Depot, riveted to the sheet metal. Also riveted my bottom piece of air cleaner to the sheet metal. Bought the Moroso foam, cut and glued to length. I'll try to take some pic's this afternoon.
Posted By: mopar dave
Re: ubly results - 07/18/10 03:55 PM
yeah, i'm interested to see how ya did it.
Any thoughts out there? 
Thanks! RandyB 
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