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Buddys OLDS ran 12.80,, My car WONT HOOK,
Posted By: Moparnut426
Buddys OLDS ran 12.80,, My car WONT HOOK, - 06/28/10 03:21 AM
He has a 65 Old with a pretty decent 455 in it. I ran a 13.2 @ 106 with my 360. Now My 408 is damn near done, and Im kinda worried my car wont hook. My 60 ft times were terrible. 1.99 was my best, Its a 4 gear car, and the M/T et drag radials werent hookin at all. Someone told me my Summit brand shocks are too short and thats my problem. I have SS springs, and a pinion snubber, and I had the air to 11 psi. I was told thats too low. Any ideas here. I did buy the Xlong mopar performance shocks, and they are only about 1/2" longer than the summit shocks. I know Im puttin more HP out with my 408, he might have me on torque. But I would hope my car will run 12.50s all day long. Randy who sold me my B1bA brodix heads said it should do that with 1 plug wire off. But I have to get my traction issues figured out, and the summer is dwindling fast, and Im still waiting on TTI for a #7 header tube.
Any pointers here would be great. I have contemplated buying the caltrac bars, and running them on the SS springs. The bad thing here is I dont want to put a cage in my car. Its a street car mostly, and I hate the bulky looks of a cage. What times require I run a cage?
Thanks in advance guys. Oh im running 3.91 gears...
KAsey
Posted By: MIKES_DUSTER
Re: Buddys OLDS ran 12.80,, My car WONT HOOK, - 06/28/10 03:26 AM
NHRA is 11.49 or lower.
Posted By: Moparnut426
Re: Buddys OLDS ran 12.80,, My car WONT HOOK, - 06/28/10 03:28 AM
Hell Id be VERY happy with 12.50s so Ill be good. I just am scared of it not hooking. I hate slipping all over the place outa the gates.
Posted By: MIKES_DUSTER
Re: Buddys OLDS ran 12.80,, My car WONT HOOK, - 06/28/10 03:30 AM
Do you have any of tires you could try??
Posted By: pinkduster
Re: Buddys OLDS ran 12.80,, My car WONT HOOK, - 06/28/10 03:33 AM
Quote:
Its a 4 gear car
Well right there's your problem. I'm sure that'll crank some people up. 
Posted By: MIKES_DUSTER
Re: Buddys OLDS ran 12.80,, My car WONT HOOK, - 06/28/10 03:35 AM
Quote:
Quote:
Its a 4 gear car
Well right there's your problem. I'm sure that'll crank some people up.
I was thinking that but didnt want to say it!!!! 
Posted By: Moparnut426
Re: Buddys OLDS ran 12.80,, My car WONT HOOK, - 06/28/10 03:36 AM
Do ya mean different brand, or slicks?
Posted By: Moparnut426
Re: Buddys OLDS ran 12.80,, My car WONT HOOK, - 06/28/10 03:37 AM
I love rowing gears, Always have, but I dont think thats my issue. Id like someday to build a decent 904 for it, but then I hate to de-convert my 4 Speed car. I spent a lot of time and effort switching this car to a 4 speed.
Posted By: MIKES_DUSTER
Re: Buddys OLDS ran 12.80,, My car WONT HOOK, - 06/28/10 03:37 AM
Yes. Like some QTP's.
Posted By: Moparnut426
Re: Buddys OLDS ran 12.80,, My car WONT HOOK, - 06/28/10 03:39 AM
R those Hoosers?
Posted By: MIKES_DUSTER
Re: Buddys OLDS ran 12.80,, My car WONT HOOK, - 06/28/10 03:46 AM
Yes.... Hoosier Quicktime Pro.
Posted By: 9 Sec Phill
Re: Buddys OLDS ran 12.80,, My car WONT HOOK, - 06/28/10 03:57 AM
You need more air in the radials for them to work, start at 18 psi and go up 2 psi till it slows down. then lower 2 psi till it slows down. You will find what the tire wants. Mine was 18psi..Loose the snubber and clamp the front segments of the springs. The MT radials need some heat into them to hook. How are you doing your burn out? dont sound like your getting any wheel speed in the burn out to make any heat. If all else fails just leave easy and im sure you will at least get a 1.7 60' time....Phill
Posted By: Moparnut426
Re: Buddys OLDS ran 12.80,, My car WONT HOOK, - 06/28/10 04:06 AM
Thanks Phill, I questioned my Burnout also. My car really wanted to walk to the left, and almost into a guard rail, and I never got a chance to try the other lane. I did a good burnout I thought, good smoke, and held it there for a while but Im honestly a little new at the track, only been down it about 4 times with this car. Now with the new engine almost in it, I want to straighten any potential issues beforeI run it again.
I know a new engine making more HP is just going to make spinning a bigger hassle.
Kasey
Posted By: MIKES_DUSTER
Re: Buddys OLDS ran 12.80,, My car WONT HOOK, - 06/28/10 04:08 AM
How much HP are you hoping to make??
Posted By: Moparnut426
Re: Buddys OLDS ran 12.80,, My car WONT HOOK, - 06/28/10 04:18 AM
Well, Id love 500, I was told it should make 535, but I doubt that. I cant afford to dyno it, so Im just gonna have fun with it. Its got Great heads, they were on a 416 that made over the 500 hp mark, and Im just runnin less cam that he had. I have 10.8 compression, solid roller cam, K1 crank, Child track master rods, Hughes main stud and girdle set up, and toipped off with a Quick fuel Carb thats a 750 slightly opened up from them. I bought the carb second hand and was told its an 800ish cfm. Ran good on the 360, might need jetted up a tad on the 408.
Kasey
Posted By: Stroker Scamp
Re: Buddys OLDS ran 12.80,, My car WONT HOOK, - 06/28/10 04:29 AM
all the posts ive read the MT's like more pressure than that, 16-20, i'll be in the same boat here soon testing mine
Posted By: MIKES_DUSTER
Re: Buddys OLDS ran 12.80,, My car WONT HOOK, - 06/28/10 04:30 AM
What did the heads flow and whats the lift/dur on the cam?? 1.5/1.6 rockers??
Posted By: ademon
Re: Buddys OLDS ran 12.80,, My car WONT HOOK, - 06/28/10 04:50 AM
i've got about the same 360 setup but an auto and 4,400 stall. my SS are not modified and i run a pinion snubber about 1/2 " off the floor. i thought my koni gas adjust shocks were going to give me trouble but it hooked fine 1.66 60' 12.22 et. try adjusting your snubber or removing some rear spring clamps before going to longer shocks BTW i did try the MP long shocks on the street and it hooked worse on the street.
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Posted By: Joshs68
Re: Buddys OLDS ran 12.80,, My car WONT HOOK, - 06/28/10 05:07 AM
My 325/50 mt et streets hook pretty good on the street at 15psi. 4 spd car here also. The biggest difference in traction for me(on the street, not that I would test traction on the street but you know how it goes
) was pinion angle...
Posted By: Mr.Yuck
Re: Buddys OLDS ran 12.80,, My car WONT HOOK, - 06/28/10 01:09 PM
106 should be good for low 12's I'd think. And 11lbs is WAY to low. I ran my ET radials at 22-24lbs. What are you lauching at? Do you have a line lock? It can be hard to get the tires hot in a pedal car w/o it. You might want to get a pair of 90/10 front shocks or you could always go old school and pull a set out of a /6 car at a junk yard. Plenty of fast cars out there on just SS springs I wouldn't drop the coin on t he cal-tracks.
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: Buddys OLDS ran 12.80,, My car WONT HOOK, - 06/28/10 01:13 PM
I'll say it again.......90% of making one hook is in the FRONT END, especially with a drag radial.........How loose is your front end and what kind of shocks????
You're running 106 now, and that's enough for 12.40's with an automatic, slicks, and a 4,500+ converter...........If you want to run 12.50's with a 4-speed, you're going to have to work your butt off.........and by that I mean you HAVE to drive it like you stole it by power shifting and launching pretty high (like 4K+), so you'll need a good clutch.........
BTW, throw the snubber in the trash.......
Posted By: 1974 474 Duster
Re: Buddys OLDS ran 12.80,, My car WONT HOOK, - 06/28/10 01:19 PM
Get with Ma'Mopar catalog. They have specific long shocks for the SS spring. They are also specific to auto and 4 speed trans as well. My Duster even on the street will only spin about 6 or 8'. It still has stock spring w/these shopcks and no snubber. It is on E/T drags but Ive only played so far w/it onm the street. Thanks, Ken
Posted By: CokeBottleKid
Re: Buddys OLDS ran 12.80,, My car WONT HOOK, - 06/28/10 01:32 PM
106 is aenemic for a stroker with those heads...
You need to do some tuning/check for issues.
Posted By: 440forPOWER
Re: Buddys OLDS ran 12.80,, My car WONT HOOK, - 06/28/10 01:39 PM
I think the 106 was with his 360 not the stroker. Where did you guys run? SD? or Kearney/
Posted By: Dodgem
Re: Buddys OLDS ran 12.80,, My car WONT HOOK, - 06/28/10 01:49 PM
The rear of your car looks high (I like a high rear and rake to) so you probably need a set of these
http://chucker54.stores.yahoo.net/reshex.htmlOh cal trac 90/10 shocks trim the bump stops so front end has 5 to 6" of travel (rise from sitting)
Unclamp the back of springs last clamp should be maybe 8 to 10" behind axle!
Cal trac Bars with bite!!!!!!!!!
Posted By: Moparnut426
Re: Buddys OLDS ran 12.80,, My car WONT HOOK, - 06/28/10 04:22 PM
Ok, been at work.
Car has /6 bars, and 90/10 front shocks. Its got 3200 il ss springs in it now. I have a line lock on it, but Its not hoocked up yet. Dont really want to use it if I dont have to. Car has a centerforce dual friction clutch. Its been good so far, But my new engine might kill it. I ran 106 with the ol 360 in it.
We r running Marion SD, and Kearney. WISH SCRIBNER WAS STILL THERE!!!
Thanks guys. Lots of info here. Soo You guys thing I need to loose my snubber, clamp the front of the springs, un clamp the rear springs, and run more PSI in the tires?
Im gonna need a loop for the drive shaft now also. I think the last time I left at 4K with the old 360, I was gonna leave around the same with the new engine.
Much apreciate the help guys...
Kasey
Posted By: joedust451
Re: Buddys OLDS ran 12.80,, My car WONT HOOK, - 06/28/10 04:36 PM
You really want the car as level as possible so it'll trnsfer wqeight easier, mines about a 1" rake, not 3+ inches like most mopars i see, they have all kinds of problems hooking, being a stick car, like said, you'll need to "drive it" HARD to see mid 12s, but it'll do it with a 106 mph, your 60fts. should be around 1.78s or there abouts, i'm running 12.6s @ 104-105 with 60fts. consistant on EVERY pass in the 1.82s, My MTs are at 17 lbs. "cold", so there about 19-20 hot, rim width vs. tire size is also important for a nice footprint, a good footprint & you can run more air pressure, i'm on 7" rims with a 255/60/15, so i have to be careful not to exceed 19 lbs. cold, it won't hook, i've also stated running a snubber for trial basis, its about 1/2" from the floor, I also installed CE shocks up front, beleive it or not, my 60fts haven't changed, 1.82s is where there at in the heat, my best was a 1.79 in early may, i've also install clamps in the front of my rear springs, installed longer shocks, un-clamped the rear straps, & installed a thick spring on both sides, car still 60fts. the same
, Now i'm sure once i juice it things will change.
With the rake on your car, you really need the front to be as loose as possible, & have enough lift to overcome the back, this will help, now are you sure you have enough pinion angle?
Look at this video of my car, as you'll see it sits pretty level, notice even on 1.82 60fts. it doesn't transfer a hole lot, this track is tranction limited on some nights do to its prep, i do on accasion squak 2nd., but i'm still very consistant on the 60fts. & that whats important.
web page
Posted By: Moparnut426
Re: Buddys OLDS ran 12.80,, My car WONT HOOK, - 06/28/10 04:42 PM
Well The car doesnt look the same as in my sig, cant remember how to change sig pictures. And the pinion angle is 3 degrees.
Kasey
Posted By: Kudakidd
chico - 06/28/10 04:45 PM
Quote:
I love rowing gears, Always have, but I dont think thats my issue. Id like someday to build a decent 904 for it, but then I hate to de-convert my 4 Speed car. I spent a lot of time and effort switching this car to a 4 speed.
Damn straight. Real muscle cars have 3 pedals! Try a good smokey, then leave the line at about 1-2k rpm.
Posted By: StripeHOG
Re: Buddys OLDS ran 12.80,, My car WONT HOOK, - 06/28/10 04:46 PM
hook up that line lock!!!!! you need it for a straight burnout and on the line so you don't roll out of the beam's and waste a pass!!!
Posted By: joedust451
Re: Buddys OLDS ran 12.80,, My car WONT HOOK, - 06/28/10 04:48 PM
Quote:
Well The car doesnt look the same as in my sig, cant remember how to change sig pictures. And the pinion angle is 3 degrees.
Kasey
Not enough, you need a good 6-7 degrees, especially with a stick car.
Posted By: MIKES_DUSTER
Re: Buddys OLDS ran 12.80,, My car WONT HOOK, - 06/28/10 05:31 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Well The car doesnt look the same as in my sig, cant remember how to change sig pictures. And the pinion angle is 3 degrees.
Kasey
Not enough, you need a good 6-7 degrees, especially with a stick car.
What about a auto??? My SS springs are going in tonight. My new front hangers JUST arrived!!!!
Posted By: FlyFish
Re: Buddys OLDS ran 12.80,, My car WONT HOOK, - 06/28/10 06:13 PM
IMO, with the new motor you will run mid 12's only if you miss shift AND forget to go to 4 gear. The new motor will run 11's with ease.
I agree, more pressure is needed in the drag radials...probably at least 16-18 lbs.
Posted By: Moparnut426
Re: Buddys OLDS ran 12.80,, My car WONT HOOK, - 06/28/10 07:50 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Well The car doesnt look the same as in my sig, cant remember how to change sig pictures. And the pinion angle is 3 degrees.
Kasey
Not enough, you need a good 6-7 degrees, especially with a stick car.
HOLY CRAP!!!
That seems like a LOT of pinion angle, Hows that gonna affect the street driving?
Kasey
Posted By: SomeCarGuy
Re: Buddys OLDS ran 12.80,, My car WONT HOOK, - 06/28/10 08:34 PM
That what I was wondering, how long will U joints last then?
Posted By: mshred
Re: Buddys OLDS ran 12.80,, My car WONT HOOK, - 06/28/10 09:33 PM
if your car is a stickshift id be done with those et street radials and put on some bias ply et streets (the DOT slicks they sell)...that should definatly help some...bias ply is the only way to go and hook with a stick car...and the traction on the et street is the same if not better than the radial
Posted By: MIKES_DUSTER
Re: Buddys OLDS ran 12.80,, My car WONT HOOK, - 06/28/10 09:45 PM
Quote:
if your car is a stickshift id be done with those et street radials and put on some bias ply et streets (the DOT slicks they sell)...that should definatly help some...bias ply is the only way to go and hook with a stick car...and the traction on the et street is the same if not better than the radial
IF you are going to do this??? Get QTP's!!!!
Posted By: Moparnut426
Re: Buddys OLDS ran 12.80,, My car WONT HOOK, - 06/28/10 09:45 PM
I might get a set for the track, but I hate how squish a car drives with them on the street.
Id stick the stickem tires on for the track.
Kasey
Posted By: MIKES_DUSTER
Re: Buddys OLDS ran 12.80,, My car WONT HOOK, - 06/28/10 09:50 PM
We run then on the street ALL THE TIME with no problems. Just make sure you have 18-20 lbs of air or more in them when driving on the street.
Posted By: Quicktree
Re: Buddys OLDS ran 12.80,, My car WONT HOOK, - 06/28/10 10:15 PM
Quote:
106 is aenemic for a stroker with those heads...
You need to do some tuning/check for issues.
is the heads ported? I wouldn't call them great heads either way 
Posted By: joedust451
Re: Buddys OLDS ran 12.80,, My car WONT HOOK, - 06/28/10 10:29 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Well The car doesnt look the same as in my sig, cant remember how to change sig pictures. And the pinion angle is 3 degrees.
Kasey
Not enough, you need a good 6-7 degrees, especially with a stick car.
What about a auto??? My SS springs are going in tonight. My new front hangers JUST arrived!!!!
I'd say about -3,-4*, i run mine all the time at this, drive the 100 mile round trip to the track, make 3-4 passes & go home, the car is so smooth on the highway its comfee
Mike, you need to check your trans tailshaft angle to set the pinion angle currectly, mine is set at 0*, my pinion is down -3*.
Posted By: MIKES_DUSTER
Re: Buddys OLDS ran 12.80,, My car WONT HOOK, - 06/28/10 10:32 PM
Ok..Thanks Joe.
Posted By: dustergirl340
Re: Buddys OLDS ran 12.80,, My car WONT HOOK, - 06/28/10 11:49 PM
As for shocks with SS springs I run Monroe shocks that fit an '84 Dodge D250.
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: Buddys OLDS ran 12.80,, My car WONT HOOK, - 06/29/10 01:27 AM
Quote:
Ok, been at work.
Car has /6 bars, and 90/10 front shocks.
I'LL SAY IT AGAIN, 90% OF MAKING ONE HOOK IS IN THE FRONT END 
........Throw the CE shocks in the trash and buy some Cal-Trac front shocks.......Make sure it's got either urethane upper control arm bushings or heim joint control arms..........Use urethane bushings in the lower control arms...........and use heim joint strut rods.............
Quote:
Soo You guys thing I need to loose my snubber, clamp the front of the springs, un clamp the rear springs,
Yes, AND install urethane front spring eye and shackle bushings........
Soft sidewall tires will be better than drag radials with a 4-speed, because they'll absorb the shock of dumping the clutch (as most know, shocking drag radials doesn't work).......BUT, it's not like you have a ton of power with the 360, so if it were me, I'd do all the suspension stuff (because you need that anyway) and go to a soft sidewall tire as a last resort....... 
Posted By: mshred
Re: Buddys OLDS ran 12.80,, My car WONT HOOK, - 06/29/10 02:55 AM
Quote:
Quote:
Ok, been at work.
Car has /6 bars, and 90/10 front shocks.
I'LL SAY IT AGAIN, 90% OF MAKING ONE HOOK IS IN THE FRONT END ........Throw the CE shocks in the trash and buy some Cal-Trac front shocks.......Make sure it's got either urethane upper control arm bushings or heim joint control arms..........Use urethane bushings in the lower control arms...........and use heim joint strut rods.............
Quote:
Soo You guys thing I need to loose my snubber, clamp the front of the springs, un clamp the rear springs,
Yes, AND install urethane front spring eye and shackle bushings........
Soft sidewall tires will be better than drag radials with a 4-speed, because they'll absorb the shock of dumping the clutch (as most know, shocking drag radials doesn't work).......BUT, it's not like you have a ton of power with the 360, so if it were me, I'd do all the suspension stuff (because you need that anyway) and go to a soft sidewall tire as a last resort.......
with a 4 speed you dont want soft sidewall tires, you want a stiffer sidewall, in fact as stiff as you can get...with a soft sidewall like a drag radial, the initial hit from the clutch wil cause less control and stability and therefore less traction...the stiff sidewall of the bias ply will help to absorb and plant the power while pointing the car straight...thats why stick guys are almost always running tubes as well, anything to help stiffen those sidewalls
Posted By: Moparnut426
Re: Buddys OLDS ran 12.80,, My car WONT HOOK, - 06/29/10 03:06 AM
BUT, it's not like you have a ton of power with the 360, so if it were me, I'd do all the suspension stuff (because you need that anyway) and go to a soft sidewall tire as a last resort.......
Im not running the 360 anymore, My stroker is done.
Im a bit confused on the side wall deal. I always thought the drag radial were stiffer on the side wall. The bias ply "wrinkle" walls are softer, flimsier???
Thats why the bias tires are so squishy down the road.
Kasey
Posted By: mshred
Re: Buddys OLDS ran 12.80,, My car WONT HOOK, - 06/29/10 03:15 AM
Quote:
BUT, it's not like you have a ton of power with the 360, so if it were me, I'd do all the suspension stuff (because you need that anyway) and go to a soft sidewall tire as a last resort.......
Im not running the 360 anymore, My stroker is done.
Im a bit confused on the side wall deal. I always thought the drag radial were stiffer on the side wall. The bias ply "wrinkle" walls are softer, flimsier???
Thats why the bias tires are so squishy down the road.
Kasey
the way the chords are wrapped inside a bias ply tire is different from that of a radial and favors itself more for stickshift driving...they are stiffer...look on a stickshift race car and guranteed you will not ever see a radial, always a bias ply
ive read of guys who have picked up a couple tenths just from switching from dr's to a bias ply...some even more than that...its pretty amazing actually
Posted By: cheapstreetdustr
Re: Buddys OLDS ran 12.80,, My car WONT HOOK, - 06/29/10 03:16 AM
kasey
If you find the car still moves over during a burnout..
take more time setting tire pressure.
and get a guage that reads in .25 pounds increments..
most times i find a car moves sideways during the burnout..its cause the tires arent air'd the same
if you have a guage that only goes in full pound increments..you could be off from right tire to left tire..this will give you sideways burnouts
and also kill any attempts to get traction..
get or borrow a large face gauge..with 1/4 or better 1/16 lb increments..
on the 6* pinon angle...id just be aware...that you street drive the car and down shift to engine brake...id be a little leary with 6* of pinion angle.. and down shifting..
if you go with 6* and find that it shakes under deceleration...you know were/what that issue is... fwiw.
Posted By: Moparnut426
Re: Buddys OLDS ran 12.80,, My car WONT HOOK, - 06/29/10 03:21 AM
Man thanks a bunch guys.
Im thinkin of taking a look at the front end now. I know the uppers are not poly, they are rubber. and about 10 yrs old, mostly sitting.
Kasey
Posted By: 9 Sec Phill
Re: Buddys OLDS ran 12.80,, My car WONT HOOK, - 06/29/10 03:28 AM
Quote:
kasey
If you find the car still moves over during a burnout..
take more time setting tire pressure.
and get a guage that reads in .25 pounds increments..
most times i find a car moves sideways during the burnout..its cause the tires arent air'd the same
if you have a guage that only goes in full pound increments..you could be off from right tire to left tire..this will give you sideways burnouts
and also kill any attempts to get traction..
get or borrow a large face gauge..with 1/4 or better 1/16 lb increments..
on the 6* pinon angle...id just be aware...that you street drive the car and down shift to engine brake...id be a little leary with 6* of pinion angle.. and down shifting..
if you go with 6* and find that it shakes under deceleration...you know were/what that issue is... fwiw.
CSD, I would have to disagree with you on this, I know the air presure will very but the it has nothing to do with having the same presure in each tire. All tires are not the same hieght even if they are both 275/60/15's...One might be 28" and the other might be 29 1/2. He needs to check the roll out of each tire, take a tape measure and go around the tire and see if they are the same at 18 PSI, if not add air to one and let air out of the other, what ever it takes and to be safe with the presures till the tires have the same roll out or size. This will help the car launch straight and keep the car straigh in the BO box. My ...Phill
Posted By: joedust451
Re: Buddys OLDS ran 12.80,, My car WONT HOOK, - 06/29/10 06:18 AM
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Ok, been at work.
Car has /6 bars, and 90/10 front shocks.
I'LL SAY IT AGAIN, 90% OF MAKING ONE HOOK IS IN THE FRONT END ........Throw the CE shocks in the trash and buy some Cal-Trac front shocks.......Make sure it's got either urethane upper control arm bushings or heim joint control arms..........Use urethane bushings in the lower control arms...........and use heim joint strut rods.............
Quote:
Soo You guys thing I need to loose my snubber, clamp the front of the springs, un clamp the rear springs,
Yes, AND install urethane front spring eye and shackle bushings........
Soft sidewall tires will be better than drag radials with a 4-speed, because they'll absorb the shock of dumping the clutch (as most know, shocking drag radials doesn't work).......BUT, it's not like you have a ton of power with the 360, so if it were me, I'd do all the suspension stuff (because you need that anyway) and go to a soft sidewall tire as a last resort.......
with a 4 speed you dont want soft sidewall tires, you want a stiffer sidewall, in fact as stiff as you can get...with a soft sidewall like a drag radial, the initial hit from the clutch wil cause less control and stability and therefore less traction...the stiff sidewall of the bias ply will help to absorb and plant the power while pointing the car straight...thats why stick guys are almost always running tubes as well, anything to help stiffen those sidewalls
Is it me or do you have it backwards, DRs have a stiffer sidewall, Slicks are Bias ply, they wrinkle, they do make a stiffer sidewall slick, but you do want a softer hit with a stick car, DRs (if under enough power) will not over-come the hit or shock when dumping the clutch & high RPM, ET streets or QTPs will work much better, they have a softer sidewall.
Many on here will tell you with SS springs you need more pinion angle, especially with a stick car, a good 5-7 down, now driving it on the street you may feel vibration with no load or costing/de-exec., your U joints won't last as long, but if you can control the wrap up on the springs (with clamps), then you can get away with less angle, you just don't want to go in the +. This will cause "wind-up" & will let the pinion snap back down, in turn cuaseing wheel hop/porpasing & or blowing the tires loose, more or less once your in the + (pinion up) you loose torque multiplacation through the DS & too the pinion, if this makes sence.
Posted By: mshred
Re: Buddys OLDS ran 12.80,, My car WONT HOOK, - 06/29/10 08:25 PM
Quote:
Quote:
with a 4 speed you dont want soft sidewall tires, you want a stiffer sidewall, in fact as stiff as you can get...
In his case, I don't agree with that.......That would be OK IF the car was hooking........
Quote:
with a soft sidewall like a drag radial, the initial hit from the clutch wil cause less control and stability and therefore less traction...the stiff sidewall of the bias ply will help to absorb and plant the power while pointing the car straight...thats why stick guys are almost always running tubes as well, anything to help stiffen those sidewalls
That's backwards.......The drag radials he's running have much stiffer sidewalls than Hoosier Quick Time Pros.......
Stick guys run do run tubes to make the soft sidewalls last longer......
i dont think i have it backwards...when a radial tire hits with a stick car, the way the chords are wrapped causes a rebound that is detrimental for traction...in a bias ply tire the way the chords wrap absorbs but allows the car to point straight and hook, so there is less "rebound"...Stick racers are always looking for a stiffer tire, which is why tubes are run in them...
i mean i could be wrong here, but this is what i have heard many stickshift guys say, stiffer is better...it is only from this that i can assume that bias plies are stiffer, especially if they have less recoil as compared to drag radials on the same application
Posted By: cheapstreetdustr
Re: Buddys OLDS ran 12.80,, My car WONT HOOK, - 06/29/10 09:52 PM
Quote:
Quote:
kasey
If you find the car still moves over during a burnout..
take more time setting tire pressure.
and get a guage that reads in .25 pounds increments..
most times i find a car moves sideways during the burnout..its cause the tires arent air'd the same
if you have a guage that only goes in full pound increments..you could be off from right tire to left tire..this will give you sideways burnouts
and also kill any attempts to get traction..
get or borrow a large face gauge..with 1/4 or better 1/16 lb increments..
on the 6* pinon angle...id just be aware...that you street drive the car and down shift to engine brake...id be a little leary with 6* of pinion angle.. and down shifting..
if you go with 6* and find that it shakes under deceleration...you know were/what that issue is... fwiw.
CSD, I would have to disagree with you on this, I know the air presure will very but the it has nothing to do with having the same presure in each tire. All tires are not the same hieght even if they are both 275/60/15's...One might be 28" and the other might be 29 1/2. He needs to check the roll out of each tire, take a tape measure and go around the tire and see if they are the same at 18 PSI, if not add air to one and let air out of the other, what ever it takes and to be safe with the presures till the tires have the same roll out or size. This will help the car launch straight and keep the car straigh in the BO box. My ...Phill
I wont agure/disagree with that....
Posted By: RobX4406
Re: Buddys OLDS ran 12.80,, My car WONT HOOK, - 06/29/10 11:35 PM
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with a 4 speed you dont want soft sidewall tires, you want a stiffer sidewall, in fact as stiff as you can get...
In his case, I don't agree with that.......That would be OK IF the car was hooking........
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with a soft sidewall like a drag radial, the initial hit from the clutch wil cause less control and stability and therefore less traction...the stiff sidewall of the bias ply will help to absorb and plant the power while pointing the car straight...thats why stick guys are almost always running tubes as well, anything to help stiffen those sidewalls
That's backwards.......The drag radials he's running have much stiffer sidewalls than Hoosier Quick Time Pros.......
Stick guys run do run tubes to make the soft sidewalls last longer......
i dont think i have it backwards...when a radial tire hits with a stick car, the way the chords are wrapped causes a rebound that is detrimental for traction...in a bias ply tire the way the chords wrap absorbs but allows the car to point straight and hook, so there is less "rebound"...Stick racers are always looking for a stiffer tire, which is why tubes are run in them...
i mean i could be wrong here, but this is what i have heard many stickshift guys say, stiffer is better...it is only from this that i can assume that bias plies are stiffer, especially if they have less recoil as compared to drag radials on the same application
Keep at it but it's not that way.
Wayne, you hitting your head on the wall yet? 
Pinion angle, clamps, lower the rear if possible and work the crap out of the front end as suggested. It's a 12.40 ride with the current MPH with everything going your way..
Posted By: Moparnut426
Re: Buddys OLDS ran 12.80,, My car WONT HOOK, - 06/30/10 12:45 AM
12.40s with the 360? Should be faster than that with the 408?
Im a bit confused on the whole tire thing, but I have a good idea on what to do.
Kasey
Posted By: JCCuda
Re: Buddys OLDS ran 12.80,, My car WONT HOOK, - 06/30/10 04:00 PM
Definitely get the back of the car lower. To lower the back of the car a couple inches flip the front spring hanger over (you just have to oblong the holes where they attach for the studs to go through). Then check your pinion angle (fine tune with shims). Most important make sure the front end moves freely. 6cyl. t/bars a loose shock, cut the control arm bumpers as short as you can to gain the travel and no sway bar. Your 10 year old rubber control arm bushings should be fine. None of this is magic and you shouldn't have to spend alot of money to make a 11-12 sec. car work.
Posted By: Jeepmon
Re: Buddys OLDS ran 12.80,, My car WONT HOOK, - 06/30/10 04:29 PM
Kasey... first things first.. Get the motor in the car and take it for a spin.. Your combo sounds an aweful lot like my old combo.. 410 stroker, 4-speed, 391 gears, wrong shocks, etc.. and I have to admit, I chased troubles and inconsistencies for a couple of years..
That combo you have should easily run low 12's and at upwards to 115-119 mph, all depending on how much spin you get at the line.. To put this all into perspective, my combo ran all over the 12's.. From low 12 to high 12 between back to back passes and then one day out of no where, popped in a mid 11..
Tired of fighting (and losing races) with the 4 speed, I got fed up and put in a reverse manual 727 and there has been no looking back.. First pass with the new tranny was a 11.6x and all weekend long, I was within a .25 seconds while learning shift points and etc..
My recommendation to you is to first put 20lbs of air pressure in those E/T's... screw the QTP's, screw the bias crap.. E/T's will work!!!
Next I would launch at 2000 rpm, then 3000 rpm, then 4000 rpm to see which rpm the car liked the best.. After that, play with shift points to see what how the motor works and then once you get that out of the way.. come back here and tell us what happened.. The fine tuning of the car/suspension/launch can only happen after you take the car on its maiden voyage..
Posted By: 72Challenger
Re: Buddys OLDS ran 12.80,, My car WONT HOOK, - 06/30/10 04:32 PM
Last years I've ran a 4-speed in my 10sec running street/strip car. 72 Challenger weighing in at around 3750lbs.
I got rid of the front sway bar (or just loosen the side links at the track), had some CE 90/10 shocks in the front, caltracks w/ oem leafs in the rear. D60 w/ 4.30 gears turning GY 30x11.5 slicks. Leaving at 5k of rpm I had no traction issues at all? Before with Hoosiers I had some but with the goodyears none. I guess if you just get some sticky tires you should be fine.
Now I have the same engine in a strip only challenger weighing in at 2700lbs with a GForce clutchless behind it and still have no problems hooking up with 1.3 60fts running 9's the 1st time out.
Stick to the stick, it's the most fun!!
Posted By: Moparnut426
Re: Buddys OLDS ran 12.80,, My car WONT HOOK, - 06/30/10 04:39 PM
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Kasey... first things first.. Get the motor in the car and take it for a spin.. Your combo sounds an aweful lot like my old combo.. 410 stroker, 4-speed, 391 gears, wrong shocks, etc.. and I have to admit, I chased troubles and inconsistencies for a couple of years..
That combo you have should easily run low 12's and at upwards to 115-119 mph, all depending on how much spin you get at the line.. To put this all into perspective, my combo ran all over the 12's.. From low 12 to high 12 between back to back passes and then one day out of no where, popped in a mid 11..
Tired of fighting (and losing races) with the 4 speed, I got fed up and put in a reverse manual 727 and there has been no looking back.. First pass with the new tranny was a 11.6x and all weekend long, I was within a .25 seconds while learning shift points and etc..
My recommendation to you is to first put 20lbs of air pressure in those E/T's... screw the QTP's, screw the bias crap.. E/T's will work!!!
Next I would launch at 2000 rpm, then 3000 rpm, then 4000 rpm to see which rpm the car liked the best.. After that, play with shift points to see what how the motor works and then once you get that out of the way.. come back here and tell us what happened.. The fine tuning of the car/suspension/launch can only happen after you take the car on its maiden voyage..
GREAT ADVICE!! Finally someone chimed in with a similar set up. I did forget I put a swey bar up front. Thats gonna go Bye Bye, or atleast make me some disconnects for it.
Thanks for the ideas.
Kasey
Posted By: Jacob Pitt
Re: Buddys OLDS ran 12.80,, My car WONT HOOK, - 06/30/10 07:07 PM
Radials are not recommended for 4-speed cars. Just ask the tire manufacturers. The sidewall on radials are stiff and then they require more air pressure for less rolling resistance. This is why radial tires are faster. In Stock Eliminator everybody runs radial slicks, except the 4-speed guys. Radials are not forgiving enough for four speed cars. When a radial starts to spin they don't stop. I run M/T pro drag radials on the Stocker Volare and my Challenger. They require a lot of chassis tuning to work on a consistent basis. You would be better off going to a true drag slick for the best results. Our Duster runs a M/T 28*9 slicks and runs 11.50's at 3200lbs with stock suspension. Good luck.