Posted By: Anonymous
Post deleted by Defbob
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: How much the car...or the driver? - 05/16/10 02:37 PM
That I believe you need both but a good driver will always have the advantage.
Posted By: jamesc
Re: How much the car...or the driver? - 05/16/10 02:41 PM
i've seen guys that could win with a shopping cart. it always helps to have a consistant car but the bulk of winning is on the driver. another thing to consider is who's working on the car. if you have a successful driver and they also happen to be the one turning the wrenches then the driver plays an even greater role. i know my car has carried me through more than a few rounds but in the end it's the driver that is normally the deciding factor.
on another note what's up with the arrow?
on another note what's up with the arrow?
Posted By: Anonymous
Post deleted by Defbob - 05/16/10 02:44 PM
Posted By: tboomer
Re: How much the car...or the driver? - 05/16/10 02:50 PM
Quote:
Looks like 512 Jim....
Posted By: Jeepmon
Re: How much the car...or the driver? - 05/16/10 02:52 PM
You guys are the veteran racers with a ton of years behind you.. I'm just a rookie newbie thats trying to figure out if I have what it takes to play..
So far, in my limited experience, I see it as being very very important to have a car that can run the numbers over n over again.. any monkey can push the go pedal and pull the lever when the light comes on.. but without having a quality car.. who cares..
So far, in my limited experience, I see it as being very very important to have a car that can run the numbers over n over again.. any monkey can push the go pedal and pull the lever when the light comes on.. but without having a quality car.. who cares..
Posted By: slantzilla
Re: How much the car...or the driver? - 05/16/10 02:56 PM
A good driver can do more with a mediocre car than a mediocre driver can do with a good car.
Posted By: RC91
Re: How much the car...or the driver? - 05/16/10 03:05 PM
You can have the best built, finest tuned, fastest car in the world. But it's still up to the driver to get it to the finish line first. Although I have not made it to the finals many times in my race car due to the huge car count and many good drivers, every time I drove my daily driver to the track and raced in trophy, I made it to the final round and many times won turning mid 15's. Almost all of them were won due to RT.
Posted By: 440Jim
Re: How much the car...or the driver? - 05/16/10 03:16 PM
I think it takes several things:
1) Driver (RT, finish line driving, shifting, staging, setting/controlling temps, burnout technique (same) etc)
2) Car (consistancy, predictability, goes straight, hooks, etc)
3) Crew chief (dial-in, tune-up, maintenance, etc)
4) LUCK - the other racer's package can be better!
It looks like I listed more things under "driver"...
But a junk car ain't going to win many races with any driver. I like the "mediocre" statement.
1) Driver (RT, finish line driving, shifting, staging, setting/controlling temps, burnout technique (same) etc)
2) Car (consistancy, predictability, goes straight, hooks, etc)
3) Crew chief (dial-in, tune-up, maintenance, etc)
4) LUCK - the other racer's package can be better!
It looks like I listed more things under "driver"...
But a junk car ain't going to win many races with any driver. I like the "mediocre" statement.
Posted By: jamesc
Re: How much the car...or the driver? - 05/16/10 03:41 PM
Quote:
I like the "mediocre" statement.
yea i think Dennis pretty much summed it up there.
Posted By: Quicktree
Re: How much the car...or the driver? - 05/16/10 03:43 PM
you need both
Posted By: Al_Alguire
Re: How much the car...or the driver? - 05/16/10 04:01 PM
I agree that you need both. But a great driver can win in a good car more so than a good driver in a great car. I have seen guys step into cars they are unfamiliar with and win. A lot more racers are lost by the driver than the car.
I think Eric example is a good case study of that. The man has two cars and wins in both. One he just bought, I guess the question on the roadster is what was it's previous record with the last owner/driver?
I think Eric example is a good case study of that. The man has two cars and wins in both. One he just bought, I guess the question on the roadster is what was it's previous record with the last owner/driver?
Posted By: Leigh
Re: How much the car...or the driver? - 05/16/10 04:19 PM
You need both. BUT, I've had days where I was sick, or not sharp, that the car won many rounds for me. I haven't had a working car like that for 10 years. B i t e s.
Posted By: slantzilla
Re: How much the car...or the driver? - 05/16/10 04:24 PM
Quote:
I have seen guys step into cars they are unfamiliar with and win.
Like Tony.
Then you got your freaks of nature like Fletcher, Bogaki, Beard, etc......
Posted By: Anonymous
Post deleted by Defbob - 05/17/10 01:22 AM
Posted By: sunroofgtx
Re: How much the car...or the driver? - 05/17/10 01:41 AM
DiscoQuik can win in a tranny-slipping, one-wheelie-peelie, dead-cylinder 4 banger... Yes the driver's make the difference.. 
Hi Eric !!
Hi Eric !!
Posted By: mopardamo
Re: How much the car...or the driver? - 05/17/10 01:47 AM
Hello Eric,
That question is so so loaded. Have a friend that cannot get his junk down the track without breaking it in 4 tries now due to his lack of driving ability. Have a cousin that is dead on with anything. I did not vote because I'm a both kinda guy.
Damon
That question is so so loaded. Have a friend that cannot get his junk down the track without breaking it in 4 tries now due to his lack of driving ability. Have a cousin that is dead on with anything. I did not vote because I'm a both kinda guy.
Damon
Posted By: Mr. T
Re: How much the car...or the driver? - 05/18/10 12:46 AM
It is DEFINITELY the driver that makes the difference. My son races a V/6 Chevy Cavilier that he drives to the track. He has beaten so many electronic equipped cars while footbraking his car, that none of the local track owner's will allow him to compete against them anymore. I guess the owner's got tired of hearing all the crying from them AFTER they lost the race. 
Posted By: MR_P_BODY
Re: How much the car...or the driver? - 05/18/10 12:52 AM
Quote:
I think it takes several things:
1) Driver (RT, finish line driving, shifting, staging, setting/controlling temps, burnout technique (same) etc)
2) Car (consistancy, predictability, goes straight, hooks, etc)
3) Crew chief (dial-in, tune-up, maintenance, etc)
4) LUCK - the other racer's package can be better!
It looks like I listed more things under "driver"...
But a junk car ain't going to win many races with any driver. I like the "mediocre" statement.
it takes both
Posted By: wheelsup68dart
Re: How much the car...or the driver? - 05/18/10 01:12 AM
Driver hands down, most racers have egos the size of Texas(I know I am one of them) and cannot admit to being the one at fault for inconsistencies. I.E. car fell of .02, 60' times all over the place. We all wanna blame the car for these factors instead of realizing that usually it is the driver that stages the car an extra 1/2" deep or shallow round to round is the problem. NOT THE CAR in most situations. I accepted full responsibility for performing like crap this last weekend, loss of focus was more than likely the fault for my cars inconsistent reaction times and ET's
Posted By: ajcasini
Re: How much the car...or the driver? - 05/18/10 02:11 AM
I think that they both play an important role but a great driver can win in anything. If you look at all of the great drivers, someone gave the example of Bogacki, Beard, Richardson...They have botha Great skillset and top notch equipment. The top notch equipment allows the driver to focus on just that 'driving'. He isnt worried about tire spin, a pop at the top of the shift, car not coming up on the brake quick enough, etc...They can focus on RT and Top End tactics knowing the car will be there.
Posted By: Anonymous
Post deleted by Defbob - 05/18/10 02:27 AM
Posted By: MoparBilly
Re: How much the car...or the driver? - 05/18/10 05:32 AM
It depends on the level of competition. Local bracket night, two or three time runs, and 5 or 6 rounds over an 8 hour day, and a great driver can overcome even subpar equipment. Start stepping up to big bucks races, or Nationals, and Divisionals, or ET Finals type multi-day events, where there are Elite Drivers, Great Drivers, Very Good drivers, and a ton of Good Drivers, and you better have quality equipment, and a CrewChief/Dialer than can read the track, weather, and competition and give you a gameplan, or even the most accomplished, gifted driver will be in the bleachers early!!!
Nik Downing just won the SST Wally at the Sportnationals, in Fontana. Driving the same Arrow that his Grandpa Dwight has won 2 Division 7 SST Championships in. Which proves what we already knew from watching Bob Glidden, and Eric...any ole bum can win in an ARROW!!!
Nik Downing just won the SST Wally at the Sportnationals, in Fontana. Driving the same Arrow that his Grandpa Dwight has won 2 Division 7 SST Championships in. Which proves what we already knew from watching Bob Glidden, and Eric...any ole bum can win in an ARROW!!!
Posted By: Mr. T
Re: How much the car...or the driver? - 05/18/10 10:17 AM
http://www.bracketnews.com/Track%20Pages...e%202-1007.html
Read the first 3 paragraphs from this article, then tell me about the need for a crew chief and top notch equipment to win a large event.
Read the first 3 paragraphs from this article, then tell me about the need for a crew chief and top notch equipment to win a large event.
Posted By: Quicktree
Re: How much the car...or the driver? - 05/18/10 10:26 AM
Quote:believe me it helps.there are plenty who do it with out it. but every little bit helps.
http://www.bracketnews.com/Track%20Pages...e%202-1007.html
Read the first 3 paragraphs from this article, then tell me about the need for a crew chief and top notch equipment to win a large event.
Posted By: fig426
Re: How much the car...or the driver? - 05/18/10 12:10 PM
Quote:
DiscoQuik can win in a tranny-slipping, one-wheelie-peelie, dead-cylinder 4 banger... Yes the driver's make the difference..
Hi Eric !!
I am as rookie as it gets. Probably only 50 passes under my belt. My car always runs 12.47 to 12.52, depending on weather and such, I should be able to always dial the number it will run.... Then comes the tree...Dang sometimes I think I'm full blown sleeping up there running 600 lights at times. The car is great. I suck. A good driver would win in my car.
![Attached picture 5989003-0927091210[1].jpg](https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/upload2/5989003-0927091210[1].jpg "5989003-0927091210[1].jpg")
Posted By: BobR
Re: How much the car...or the driver? - 05/18/10 01:36 PM
Quote:
A good driver can do more with a mediocre car than a mediocre driver can do with a good car.
Best point in this thread and absolutely true-especially in index racing.
Posted By: sixpackbee
Re: How much the car...or the driver? - 05/18/10 02:02 PM
This may sound odd but I believe there are cars that know their way to the winners circle better than others. Back to the OP, I feel it is 50/50 for the most part.
Posted By: Jacob Pitt
Re: How much the car...or the driver? - 05/18/10 02:26 PM
I personally have won in 7 different cars. Some of them had never been to a winners circle before, and others have never been back. A couple of these cars were borrowed rides that I couldn't adjust to make me comfortable but I made the most out of it. Saying that, the majority of the cars I have won in I feel are good cars or I have made into good cars with testing and adjusting. So I think a good driver can win in anything but being in a good car makes the trips to the winner's circle happen more often.
Posted By: B G Racing
Re: How much the car...or the driver? - 05/18/10 02:30 PM
A good driver is a confident,experienced,skilled and focused individual who can adapt and compensate for the car,track,weather and competition.A good car will be easy to control and consistant.Put the two together and you have a winner.Most all winners are confident to the point of being cocky and it's fine as long as they can back it up and deserve the recognition.Most all of are BGR "hot shoes" exhibit a level of confidence,but know how to be humble and respectful.To sum it up,if you have the best car and combo,it's worthless with out a skilled driver to get it down the track. 
Posted By: kissmyaspen
Re: How much the car...or the driver? - 05/18/10 02:48 PM
Quote:
A good driver is a confident,experienced,skilled and focused individual who can adapt and compensate for the car,track,weather and competition.A good car will be easy to control and consistant.Put the two together and you have a winner.Most all winners are confident to the point of being cocky and it's fine as long as they can back it up and deserve the recognition.Most all of are BGR "hot shoes" exhibit a level of confidence,but know how to be humble and respectful.To sum it up,if you have the best car and combo,it's worthless with out a skilled driver to get it down the track.
I like how you put that bob. A good drive can get in any car and beable to go rounds
Posted By: FastmOp
Re: How much the car...or the driver? - 05/18/10 03:17 PM
I'm racing a borrowed car this year. It's consistant as can be but never had a win. The second race out this year I got the win light and took home a small cash prize. There were twenty cars in the race and I had to have some luck to win but at the end of the night I ran out of people to beat.
To me it's all about the car. If it is consistant and predictable you have an advantage over cars that can't repeat.
To me it's all about the car. If it is consistant and predictable you have an advantage over cars that can't repeat.
Posted By: B G Racing
Re: How much the car...or the driver? - 05/18/10 04:43 PM
My 65 is about as consistant as any car.I've seen my son Curt go 11 rounds and never change the dial on the window and run within .001 from mid day heat till 2am dew and darkness.I've seen Don Martik in my car go rounds similar.Chaz has run it from high to mid 9s,Britt ran it consistantly 9.80s,I run it all over the place 10s to low 9s,depending on how I feel and how high or long I want to hang the hoops.A consistant car is part of the equation,a great driver is the prime number of any equation.They make it happen.Britt,AJ,Chaz,Donny,Lonnie,Ron,Darryal,Earl,and Larry are some of BGR prime numbers.I think we will start a tote board at the shop and track rounds won and best packages and give the leader a bonus at the end of the season. 
Posted By: ajcasini
Re: How much the car...or the driver? - 05/18/10 05:20 PM
Quote:
I think we will start a tote board at the shop and track rounds won and best packages and give the leader a bonus at the end of the season.
Bob I like this idea. Let me know when you are ready to start I have my slips saved and just waiting to start writing on the board.
It will be a close fight with all of the quality drivers we have in the stable.
Posted By: MR_P_BODY
Re: How much the car...or the driver? - 05/18/10 05:22 PM
Quote:
DRIVER
Bret Knepner a/ka MR DIRT one of the very best brackets racers that ever made a pass raced vans,rentals and sometimes a borrowed car in a majority of his wins. Many of his races were won with cars he never made a time trail pass. his win percentage was over 75% .
The reason I say both is that if you have a car that
falls on its face or looses traction on a irregular
basis, the driver cant count on it... alot of guys
that rent cars to race are getting a car that will
do the same every time... thats why I say both
Posted By: thecarfarmer
Re: How much the car...or the driver? - 05/18/10 06:46 PM
I think it's half driver, half car, and two-thirds luck.
I know this to be a mathematical FACT, because 2/3 of the rounds I've won were luck, and half of the remainder were won solely on the car's merits.
-Bill
I know this to be a mathematical FACT, because 2/3 of the rounds I've won were luck, and half of the remainder were won solely on the car's merits.
-Bill
Posted By: B G Racing
Re: How much the car...or the driver? - 05/18/10 07:12 PM
Quote:Quote:
I think we will start a tote board at the shop and track rounds won and best packages and give the leader a bonus at the end of the season.
Bob I like this idea. Let me know when you are ready to start I have my slips saved and just waiting to start writing on the board.
We can start this weekend,actually is was Larry Smith who came up with the idea at Columbus.He was physicing out Lonnie for rounds won during the weekend.
AJ,you definately have an advantage.
Posted By: StripeHOG
Re: How much the car...or the driver? - 05/18/10 07:13 PM
a good driver can jump in anything and WIN motorcycle,4-wheeler,street car, inconsistent car..... as long as the car's VRT is consistent than it's game on Bag a few and drive the stripe!!!! A good driver will also get more redlite's against them as people will push the tree knowing HE/SHE can get the job done!!!
motorcycle,4-wheeler,street car, inconsistent car..... as long as the car's VRT is consistent than it's game on Bag a few and drive the stripe!!!! A good driver will also get more redlite's against them as people will push the tree knowing HE/SHE can get the job done!!!
Posted By: wheelsup68dart
Re: How much the car...or the driver? - 05/18/10 07:32 PM
Quote:Quote:Quote:
I think we will start a tote board at the shop and track rounds won and best packages and give the leader a bonus at the end of the season.
Bob I like this idea. Let me know when you are ready to start I have my slips saved and just waiting to start writing on the board.
We can start this weekend,actually is was Larry Smith who came up with the idea at Columbus.He was physicing out Lonnie for rounds won during the weekend.
Well, if you truly count rounds won then lets see, I had the best weekend with my pickup truck.
Posted By: ajcasini
Re: How much the car...or the driver? - 05/18/10 07:50 PM
Quote:Quote:Quote:
I think we will start a tote board at the shop and track rounds won and best packages and give the leader a bonus at the end of the season.
Bob I like this idea. Let me know when you are ready to start I have my slips saved and just waiting to start writing on the board.
We can start this weekend,actually is was Larry Smith who came up with the idea at Columbus.He was physicing out Lonnie for rounds won during the weekend.
Bob appreciate the kind words. It would be alot of fun to do to see where you are in terms of rounds won, RT and package. I have been keeping pretty good records this year and hope to continue to do so. Not only to track my performance but the cars as well. So far I have
16 Round Wins
035 RT average in eliminations
001 best RT in elims
070 worst rt in elims
002 best package
This is over 5 events contested thus far.