R3 low deck ????

Posted By: 10 o to go

R3 low deck ???? - 05/05/10 02:21 AM

I've run stocks blocks for many years but I think
I'm starting to push the boundry's with strokers and C.I .

I have a line on a R3 9.20 low deck .Pros and cons on these verses R3 9.60 block.
Price is cheap I believe.
Takes a special

Timing cover its included .
They say can be 4.220 bored
What crank can be put in ?
59 degree block same issues on cam rocker angles.
what special intake is needed ?
Is this a block that will work ,cost effective for drag racing .

I have custom pieces for the 418 in motor now
callies crank, compstar rods, probe pistons studded 2 bolt mains .
Educate me please .
Don

Attached picture 5964564-BKD9-11-01_302C.jpg

Attached picture 5964564-BKD9-11-01_302C.jpg

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: R3 low deck ???? - 05/05/10 02:44 AM

You say this R3 is a 59* block.... thats too bad, a
nice 48* would have been better...... any ways, your
engine parts will work on it... is it a siamese block
and is it a wet sump or dry sump block. The intakes
would need to be trimmed to fit the shorter block
(if they can be cut that much)
EDIT
also the R3 will have 4 bolt mains and will have 2 extra
bolts per cyl for head bolts(those 2 are 3/8

Posted By: 10 o to go

Re: R3 low deck ???? - 05/05/10 02:57 AM

Thanks Mike I haven't seen it yet .So what block numbers will I look for ? Siamese block will thier be a different external oiling provision .
I'm wondering on cubic inchs and not twisting high .I'm shifting the 418 at 6600 .
Where does crank stroke and and bore become marginal on a 59 degree motor . I'm not really wanting to spin it more than 7000 with a solid cam and get into valve train issues .
Thanks Don

Posted By: LA360

Re: R3 low deck ???? - 05/05/10 11:54 AM

The push rod angle on the 9.200" 59* blocks is pretty horrible, hence why they are quite cheap to buy. How much RPM are you planning?
AL....

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: R3 low deck ???? - 05/05/10 12:09 PM

Quote:

Thanks Mike I haven't seen it yet .So what block numbers will I look for ? Siamese block will thier be a different external oiling provision .
I'm wondering on cubic inchs and not twisting high .I'm shifting the 418 at 6600 .
Where does crank stroke and and bore become marginal on a 59 degree motor . I'm not really wanting to spin it more than 7000 with a solid cam and get into valve train issues .
Thanks Don

Well you can get a fairly decent stroke in it but
you would need to shortin up the rods... I have the
same deck but in the siamese dry sump 48* block
with a 3.79 stroke, 6.125 chevy rods and the oil ring
on the piston is in the wrist pin area on a 9.2 deck
so if you want a longer stroke you will need a shorter
rod with a short piston.... I forget the block numbers
on any of those so I cant help you there... if it
says you can go 4.22 on the bore I will assume its
the siamese block(cause thats the one that can be
bored that far)... even at 4.22 on my block the walls
still had a lot left in them... I'm pretty sure I
could go 4.25 and still be good (just remembering
off the top of my head)
EDIT
on the intakes I use a 420 on mine.... they dont have
a valley cover made on the intake so you have to
make a valley pan... no big deal just some 1/8 alum
with a couple of bends in it

Posted By: tubtar

Re: R3 low deck ???? - 05/05/10 12:49 PM

If it is a 59 degree block , you won't have to worry about the extra head bolt holes.
The valley side head bolt bosses are cut nearly in half to accomodate the hideous pushrod angle.
The outside bosses are there , but not drilled.
I'd be surprised to see a 59 degree short deck , but that ceretainly doesn't mean they don't exist.
Most places that sell the R-3 blocks will have a chart on their web site that lists the block numbers and tell wet or dry sump , cam tunnel dia. etc.
Some of the blocks are " lightened " with slots cut in the bell housing flange and no provisions for motor mounts.
They are plenty sturdy , but with this comes a good chunk of weight.

Posted By: RyanJ

Re: R3 low deck ???? - 05/05/10 04:37 PM

If it's a 59* 9.20 Siamese, 99% chance it has the wrong cam tunnel in it (machined accidentally by MP for 48* 1.998" babbit cam bearings)

Check rear cam journal hole in block, if it's big (same diameter as front #1 cam hole), it's a 48 tunnel, if it is normal SB Mopar (small) then it would be a correctly machined block (very rare in those 59 9.20's)

No cam cores exist for 1.998" journals & 59 degree bank angle & lifter bore spacing, which means block is almost useless (without a custom $900 cam core or converting block to 48* lifter bores) That's usually why those blocks sell for so cheap.

Posted By: SB449VALIANT

Re: R3 low deck ???? - 05/05/10 04:41 PM

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: R3 low deck ???? - 05/05/10 04:52 PM

Quote:

If it's a 59* 9.20 Siamese, 99% chance it has the wrong cam tunnel in it (machined accidentally by MP for 48* 1.998" babbit cam bearings)

Check rear cam journal hole in block, if it's big (same diameter as front #1 cam hole), it's a 48 tunnel, if it is normal SB Mopar (small) then it would be a correctly machined block (very rare in those 59 9.20's)

No cam cores exist for 1.998" journals & 59 degree bank angle & lifter bore spacing, which means block is almost useless (without a custom $900 cam core or converting block to 48* lifter bores) That's usually why those blocks sell for so cheap.

Wow... thats good to know Ryan.... that would be a
COSTLY cam

Posted By: SB449VALIANT

Re: R3 low deck ???? - 05/05/10 05:10 PM

I know who can plug those 59* bores and make them 48*.....

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: R3 low deck ???? - 05/05/10 05:15 PM

Quote:

I know who can plug those 59* bores and make them 48*.....

I was thinking about sleeveing the cam bores... I know
they are different diameters but that would have to be
cheaper than a $900 cam(plus I can do the sleeves myself)

Posted By: SB449VALIANT

Re: R3 low deck ???? - 05/05/10 05:19 PM

see Mr P.

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: R3 low deck ???? - 05/05/10 05:22 PM

Quote:

see Mr P.

What is done there... did they press a plug in the
old bore then re-bore to the 48*... whats with the
little screw or what ever it is

Posted By: SB449VALIANT

Re: R3 low deck ???? - 05/05/10 05:26 PM

Quote:

Quote:

see Mr P.

What is done there... did they press a plug in the
old bore then re-bore to the 48*... whats with the
little screw or what ever it is

Yeap that's a pretty nice fix...it looks simple? not for me..

Attached picture 5965458-59degto48degcenversion.jpg

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: R3 low deck ???? - 05/05/10 05:29 PM

Yeap that's a pretty nice fix...it looks simple? not for me..

What kind of price tag for that job?

Posted By: SB449VALIANT

Re: R3 low deck ???? - 05/05/10 05:35 PM

Quote:

Yeap that's a pretty nice fix...it looks simple? not for me..

What kind of price tag for that job?

$899.99 LOL. Not sure on the price Mr P. but the kid from Shady Dell can help with that, those picx belongs to him.

Posted By: RyanJ

Re: R3 low deck ???? - 05/05/10 05:42 PM

Going back over old invoice, looks like I charged $1130 total to convert the 59* block to 48* including cost of bushings & bushing job.

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: R3 low deck ???? - 05/05/10 05:46 PM

Quote:

Going back over old invoice, looks like I charged $1130 total to convert the 59* block to 48* including cost of bushings & bushing job.

Yeah I figured it was you that did that Ryan... thanks

Posted By: emarine01

Re: R3 low deck ???? - 05/05/10 06:23 PM

Humm... cam bushing seems doable

Posted By: RyanJ

Re: R3 low deck ???? - 05/05/10 07:00 PM

Quote:

Humm... cam bushing seems doable

Not going to be able to do it without line boring the cam tunnel oversize to get a thick enough "sleeve" for the cam bearing......

Just leaving tunnel "stock" the #'s would look like:

#2 cam bore "sleeve" would be .008" wall thickness, #3 .0155" wall thickness, #4 .023" wall thickness...

Yes #5 would be possible @ .2185" wall thickness...

You would have to bore cam tunnel to an oversize, to do sleeves..... By time you pay for cam tunnel line bore, machine 4 custom sleeves, & install them, you'd be damn near a $900 custom LSM cam. All to use an "off shelf" $325 59 degree cam....

Machining block to 48, may be little more $, but at least then you have a 48 instead of 59 & all the associated hassles the 59* lifter bores bring.... Lifters dropped right in that 48* block after I was done W/ it, no lifter valley work done to clear link bars etc. Pushrod angles as mentioned earlier get worse when deck gets shorter, meaning the short decks amplify the 59* pushrod angle issues.

I've only built one short deck 59* motor (& it was actually REAL short @ ~8.9") Was not overly cool.... That was 59* W2 heads (angle milled to 16 degree no less) with a modified MP 9.20" M1 W2 intake manifold. It was a fabrication pain....

Considering I charge $550 for "normal" lifter bore bushing job, the fact I changed that block over to 48* only really cost $580... Which I don't think is bad, for how much time/labor is involved.

Posted By: SB449VALIANT

Re: R3 low deck ???? - 05/05/10 07:24 PM

with a modified MP 9.20" M1 W2 intake manifold.

did that intake ever exist????

Posted By: emarine01

Re: R3 low deck ???? - 05/05/10 07:46 PM

I see your point, thanks RJ

Posted By: 10 o to go

Re: R3 low deck ???? - 05/06/10 12:09 AM

Thanks guys .Now my head is spinning

.
So if i get the number off the block will that help me with deciding .Who knows maybe its a 48 degree block .The guy says he has B1BS heads from another S.B .B1BA is the right head .
$1500 for the block ,so i need to check it out .
Where can I get all the info for R3 blocks I tried the tech area.
So even with the cam ,pushrod on a 59 degree where does the rpm ,cam have the issue ? Most of us are running the 340 360s stroked with eddy heads .
thanks Don
Don

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Attached picture 5966123-BKD9-09-15_032A.jpg

Posted By: RyanJ

Re: R3 low deck ???? - 05/06/10 01:05 AM

Quote:

with a modified MP 9.20" M1 W2 intake manifold.

did that intake ever exist????

Well if I used one, it must exist....

Actually a pretty nice intake... wish the tall deck was like it in the runner/plenum area.

That motor I did was a small inch W2 deal for some type of dragster thing.... 365 inch. Did'nt dyno it... dunno what it makes for power.

Posted By: tubtar

Re: R3 low deck ???? - 05/06/10 02:35 AM

http://www.jimsautoparts.com/mopar_performance_blocks.htm

Look here for part numbers and specifications.
The numbers have changed over the years too I believe.........early blocks don't have the AC in the P/N and also do not have the lifter bores drilled on the 48 degree blocks.
I think the 59 degree lifter bores intersect with the oil galleys and do not need to be drilled.....and the later R 3's are drilled by the factory.

Edited to add ......... I think these are the early part numbers listed .
The later blocks are followed by AC ... I think.
But this might be of some help.

Posted By: tubtar

Re: R3 low deck ???? - 05/06/10 03:36 AM

Check Bouchillion
http://www.bpemopar.com/SMALL_BLOCK.htm
Their catalog seems to be close to current......I don't know who has what in stock for these blocks either.
But they seem to have the latest block P/N's
I went looking for the drill fixture to drill the lifter bores.......it is discontinued , but these guys had I think 9 of them in stock.
A lot of stuff from MoPar is getting tough to track down.

Posted By: Alan Warman

Re: R3 low deck ???? - 05/07/10 03:17 AM

Well I just happen to have a good 9.20 block and two short deck W2 intakes. Will be putting a add in parts for sell this weekend. Also will trade 9.20 block for a 360 race block. Need it for our superstock car.

Thanks Alan

Posted By: 408Dust

Re: R3 low deck ???? - 05/07/10 03:30 AM

Alan you have a PM...

Posted By: dennismopar73

Re: R3 low deck ???? - 05/07/10 03:47 AM

hi don
i think you have pretty nice piece now
imo lose some wieght off the nose of car
rack pinnion,(easy 100# loss!) we have said it before
make the firewall straight so as to get to trans bolts easy (not move motor bsck)
then make new step 1 7/8 to 2" header

jmo with all else you have i think 9.70? high 9.60s
not out of question

:
scopeout:

Posted By: dennismopar73

Re: R3 low deck ???? - 05/07/10 03:55 AM

lets see 170$ rack
100$ for metal tubing
cut out inner fenders
remove old firewall put new straight one in
get trans bolts out easy =priceless
new headers 400.00
total around 1000-1200$$
pickup in et
2-3 tenths mmm

Posted By: 10 o to go

Re: R3 low deck ???? - 05/07/10 10:43 AM

Dennis thought you were going to say big block .

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Posted By: dennismopar73

Re: R3 low deck ???? - 05/08/10 02:43 AM

nope wouldnt i know how much you likem
so do i
im just set to run big blocks
small block in the 'TWISTED 'mmm
someday???