Moparts

very low oil pressure on 511(update, fixed)

Posted By: Glen440

very low oil pressure on 511(update, fixed) - 05/01/10 10:09 PM

I just finished putting my 511 B1 engine back together and fired it up today. Something was weird when I primed it, only got around 35psi and it never stalled the drill which has always happened. I fired it up and it only has 10 psi at 1200 rpm and gets very little more if you bring the revs up a bit.

I just pulled the front cover to make sure the plugs are in it. They are. I did that because it looked like one side rockers got alot more oil than the other.

I'm gonna check the relief valve in the oil pump but I had it apart before it went on and it was free.

This is a stock block 511, it has a solid roller cam with .760, .716 lift with 1.7 T&D shaft rockers. Maybe the lifters are uncovering the oil feed? These were supposed to be good.

Maybe I'll drop some solid lifters in it and see if it will prime with pressure.

Any other ideas?
Posted By: Dave_S

Re: very low oil pressure on 511 - 05/01/10 10:12 PM

Sorry Glen cant offer any advice, but you better huury up! May 22 is coming up fast.

Dave
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: very low oil pressure on 511 - 05/01/10 10:17 PM

Put a washer in the end of the relief and see if it
comes up.... could be just a wimpy relief spring
Posted By: jamesc

Re: very low oil pressure on 511 - 05/02/10 12:33 AM

Quote:

These were supposed to be good.




"supposed"? i'd want certainty on that one.
Posted By: camastomcat

Re: very low oil pressure on 511 - 05/02/10 12:41 AM

Check your lifters to see if they might be bleeding off because the oil band is coming out of the lifter bore. What kind are you running?
Posted By: AndyF

Re: very low oil pressure on 511 - 05/02/10 12:42 AM

Some brands of solid lifters won't work in a stock block. I've seen that problem with a number of different customer motors.
Posted By: 6PACMAC

Re: very low oil pressure on 511 - 05/02/10 12:50 AM

Ya, kinda sounds like the cut out in the lifter body for the roller is right at the oil gallery. See if you can sight down the oil gallery to see if the lifter is uncovering it at the roller.
Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: very low oil pressure on 511 - 05/02/10 12:52 AM

Pull all the spark plugs and prime the motor again, rotate it slowly, if the oil pressure comes up and drops off again it is the roller lifters Been there done that.The last motor we had that on we where able to block the oil off to the drivers isde and that cured it I use to small welsh plugs(look like small freeze plugs ) that I inserted into the drivers side oil galley behind the oil galley plug at the rear of the block It is a lot of work to either remove the motor and do it on a engine stand or remove the trans and do it in the car Try rotating the motor while priming it first before deciding what the problem is and the causes
Posted By: The Shadow

Re: very low oil pressure on 511 - 05/02/10 01:03 AM

Geeze Glen
My luck must be rubbing off on you.
It wasn't looking good for you being ready when I was at Frank's shop last week but you have kicked it in high gear.
Hopefully it's just something simple.
Posted By: 440Jim

Re: very low oil pressure on 511 - 05/02/10 12:04 PM

Quote:

I just finished putting my 511 B1 engine back together and fired it up today. ... with 1.7 T&D shaft rockers.

B1 heads and T&D rockers. I think that uses pushrod oiling? Did you block the oiling through the block? I have never used B1 heads, just thinking out loud. You also could need pushrod oil restrictors.
Posted By: supercomp

Re: very low oil pressure on 511 - 05/02/10 01:00 PM

Are they common shaft or individual shaft.
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: very low oil pressure on 511 - 05/02/10 01:23 PM

Quote:

Quote:

I just finished putting my 511 B1 engine back together and fired it up today. ... with 1.7 T&D shaft rockers.

B1 heads and T&D rockers. I think that uses pushrod oiling? Did you block the oiling through the block? I have never used B1 heads, just thinking out loud. You also could need pushrod oil restrictors.



Those should be PR oiling... I believe the mounting
base on the heads for the rockers should block the
oil port in the head but I would check it... with
that much lift the lifter could be the issue....
those are individual shafts so no oil in the shafts
if they are like mine
Posted By: supercomp

Re: very low oil pressure on 511 - 05/02/10 02:08 PM

Those should be PR oiling... I believe the mounting
base on the heads for the rockers should block the
oil port in the head but I would check it... with
that much lift the lifter could be the issue....
those are individual shafts so no oil in the shafts
if they are like mine


They also make a single shaft setup for B1's, which is it?
Posted By: 72chrgrally

Re: very low oil pressure on 511 - 05/02/10 04:40 PM

Glen didn't you heve this engine together and running before? If so, and you changed the cam and lifters and nothing else, then that has to be your problem. I hope you get it figured out before the first race!
Steve
Posted By: Glen440

Re: very low oil pressure on 511 - 05/03/10 12:52 AM

These are single shaft T&D rockers. I switched the position of the rocker stands to stop the oil from the block. I have pushrod oiling with lifters from Emm engines from this board. After I took the front of the engine apart to check the plugs were definatley in there I have not got it back together yet so I won't be able to try anything else for a bit.

The engine made alot of noises when priming which I had not heard before.

The engine is pretty tight in the Duster so I may end up taking it out to play with. I will have to take the valley cover off and watch what happens when I prime it. I was close to doing that yesterday but burned out, could not work on it today so maybe during the week.

The bronze gear is stuck in the engine so hopefully I can get that out with the valley cover off.

With TMP going to AHRA I was not sure what to do about the first race anyway, I need my license but if I didn't finish it, its far away to do that another day. Also would need to renew my IHRA membership.
Posted By: supercomp

Re: very low oil pressure on 511 - 05/03/10 01:31 PM

Are your lifter bores bushed? If not that would be my first guess with pushrod oiling. Also need .060 holes in bushings and .020 restricters in pushrods.
Posted By: moparniac

Re: very low oil pressure on 511 - 05/03/10 03:29 PM

With the dizzy out rotate the engine counter clockwise and it will lift the intermediate shaft out!
Posted By: moparmanjames

Re: very low oil pressure on 511 - 05/03/10 06:43 PM

A quick way to see if it's the lifters is to take the oil pan off and get a bucket of oil to put the pickup in. Then prime the pump with a drill and watch the oil gush out of the lifter area.
Posted By: Glen440

Re: very low oil pressure on 511 - 05/04/10 12:23 AM

I played with the engine tonight. Priming it it seems like there just is not enough oil from the pump. I first noticed the pushrods are not oiling. The roller on the lifter gets some oil run off it and you lift them up and uncover the galley and there is not much oil there. I took the adjustable relief spring retainer off and adjusted it all the way in and had the relief valve and spring out to look at and looks fine. I guess I need to take the oil pump off and maybe the pan. The K member may have to be lowered to do that.

I have a stock pump with a different cover that has external feed. I have a static pickup in the pan with #12 line feeding the pump. This pump and pan setup worked when last ran. I tried a different oil filter incase that was the problem.

Should I use a high volume pump this time around?
Posted By: moparniac

Re: very low oil pressure on 511 - 05/04/10 12:27 AM

good thread as im getting ready to prime as soon as my pushrods show up! I run T&d's with push rod oiling with a roller cam/bushed lifter bores and imm lifter set! the lifter holes are NOT in line with the lifter bore holes but I have a hi volume pump and running a external 12an feed like you! keep us updated (world block)
Posted By: 440Jim

Re: very low oil pressure on 511 - 05/04/10 12:27 AM

Quote:

it has a solid roller cam with .760, .716 lift with 1.7 T&D shaft rockers. Maybe the lifters are uncovering the oil feed?

It could be the lifters/bore, but I don't think so. That is not a lot of lobe lift:

.760"/1.7 = 0.447"

So a normal 1.5 rocker arm (stock head) would only be 0.670" valve lift with that cam. And tons of guys have run that in stock blocks, rocker ratio, etc. And on top of that, the roller lifters from IMM should not be a problem at that lobe lift either.
Posted By: moparniac

Re: very low oil pressure on 511 - 05/04/10 12:31 AM

Also when I measured for my pushrods I went by T&D instructions.. see #3

Posted By: Glen440

Re: very low oil pressure on 511 - 05/04/10 12:36 AM

I went by their instructions, took 2 tries to get the right pushrods as measuring my checking pushrod and what showed up were .050 different which is around a full turn and were too long. I have 8.950 in the intakes and 8.900 in the exhaust. Only had to send 8 back, plus took 3 tries to get 8.950's as they kept sending some 8.050 in the 8.950 package. offset rollers in the intakes as well.
Posted By: moparniac

Re: very low oil pressure on 511 - 05/04/10 12:38 AM

With the offset lifters mine were 2 different lengths also...
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: very low oil pressure on 511 - 05/04/10 12:45 AM

Should I use a high volume pump this time around?



Sounds like you sure need one.... pressure is a by
product of flow VS restriction... you either dont have
much flow or it doesnt have much restriction (bearings
or the lifters are coming out of bores) and you say
the lifters arent coming out and .003 for bearings is
fine(dont remember what your bearing clearance is)
so if the other stuff is fine, then your lacking flow
Posted By: Glen440

Re: very low oil pressure on 511 - 05/04/10 01:00 AM

The bearing clearances are good. I had the machine shop that did the bore and hone measure everything.

It looks like there is not much flow. I have the valvetrain out so I was pulling lifters up while priming to see what was going on. It does not make enough pressure to get any oil out the top of the lifter. You pull a lifter right out and its not a constant flow of oil out the big hole.
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: very low oil pressure on 511 - 05/04/10 01:06 AM

Are you SURE all the plugs are in the oil galleys,
a stock pump should flow enough to give you decent
pressure.... I'm just asking
Posted By: CompWedgeEngines

Re: very low oil pressure on 511 - 05/04/10 01:08 AM

Glen,

Is there any chance you are sucking the inside wall ( rubber) of the braided suction line in? IE: A collapsed oil line? Check that suction line. No way something got into the pick up ? IE rag, towel etc? Just thinking out loud. Seems like a suction side problem.
Posted By: Glen440

Re: very low oil pressure on 511 - 05/04/10 01:17 AM

Anything is possible, I put the pan on last wed and left the engine upside down so a rag is unlikely. I had it in the parts washer and cleaned the pickup and blew it out with air. I can make a new suction line, maybe it got hurt putting it in the car.

Pbody, my very first thought was the 2 plugs in the front so I pulled the front apart and looked and they are in there, the back ones must be or I would have oil everywhere. I plugged the internal pickup at the pump and inside by the crank. Is there anymore?

Maybe the pump cover has something wrong with it?
Posted By: Glen440

Re: very low oil pressure on 511 - 05/09/10 03:39 PM

I don't exactly know what was wrong with the oiling system. I put a different relief valve in and it got more oil pressure. I put a new high volume pump on it because I was gonna take the pump off anyway. I decided to run the suction line differently to elimate one 90 fitting and the line is almost completely straight now. Maybe the bend in the line was an issue? I did not take the pan off. I can get 60 psi priming it now and cold it has 75 at idle. I had it running for about 10 min yesterday and forgot what it had hot, maybe 25 at idle. I also had the oil heater on for a couple hours so the oil was warm before it started. Its real cold here right now, weather is strange. Some snow.

I'm just about to put the K frame back in, had to do some hacking on it to fit the oil line.

At least its fixed.
Posted By: 440Jim

Re: very low oil pressure on 511 - 05/09/10 03:46 PM

Quote:

At least its fixed

I agree with that. Sounds like the pump and relief may have both been an issue. I don't know about the lines.
Quote:

I have a static pickup in the pan with #12 line feeding the pump. This pump and pan setup worked when last ran.

Posted By: The Shadow

Re: very low oil pressure on 511 - 05/09/10 06:20 PM


It's nice that you found it and it wasn't a wole lot of $$$$ to fix.
Looks like next weekends racing is a go.

© 2024 Moparts Forums