Moparts
Oil pressure issues STILL !!!!! Help needed
Posted By: sc301v
Oil pressure issues STILL !!!!! Help needed - 04/05/10 12:46 PM
Here's the run down on the motor...572 c.i.d. with 572-13 indy heads and mopar mega block..
Jesel rocker arms with crower sever duty lifters pushrod oiling with .030 restrictors in the pushrods...Lifter bores are unbushed..
Grp aluminum rods with .0025 bearing clearance and ..025 side clearance.
Callies crank with .0025 clearance..and .007 end play..
All the bearings are brand new including cam bearings.
1st start up of the day cold p.s.i is 75 pds.
After warm up drops off to around 25..
Then after a pass and coming back to the trailer only have 5-7 p.s.i.
If i set between time runs for a while when you start the car back up after cool down it will be around 20 p.s.i. then by the time you get back to the lanes ande let the car warm up it we be back down to around 10 then same after the pass coming back to the trailer it will be 5-7 again..
It does have a new dual line milodon oil system on it with the Indy cover plate..
Im still thinking im losin all the pressure around the lifters cause no matter where i adjust the pressure to going down track its still the same at an idle.
Any and all ideas will be greatly appreciated...Im not gonna run this motor any more till i can get at least 25 p.s.i hot..
Thanks in advance
Posted By: BobR
Re: Oil pressure issues STILL !!!!! Help needed - 04/05/10 01:03 PM
Quote:
Here's the run down on the motor...572 c.i.d. with 572-13 indy heads and mopar mega block..
Jesel rocker arms with crower sever duty lifters pushrod oiling with .030 restrictors in the pushrods...Lifter bores are unbushed..
Grp aluminum rods with .0025 bearing clearance and ..025 side clearance.
Callies crank with .0025 clearance..and .007 end play..
All the bearings are brand new including cam bearings.
1st start up of the day cold p.s.i is 75 pds.
After warm up drops off to around 25..
Then after a pass and coming back to the trailer only have 5-7 p.s.i.
If i set between time runs for a while when you start the car back up after cool down it will be around 20 p.s.i. then by the time you get back to the lanes ande let the car warm up it we be back down to around 10 then same after the pass coming back to the trailer it will be 5-7 again..
It does have a new dual line milodon oil system on it with the Indy cover plate..
Im still thinking im losin all the pressure around the lifters cause no matter where i adjust the pressure to going down track its still the same at an idle.
Any and all ideas will be greatly appreciated...Im not gonna run this motor any more till i can get at least 25 p.s.i hot..
Thanks in advance
Bush the lifter bores or tube the block.
Posted By: mopdragster
Re: Oil pressure issues STILL !!!!! Help needed - 04/05/10 01:16 PM
I have a little of the same problem. mega block with isky lifters but have lifter bushings. I also pushrod oil b-1's + t+d's. Has 80 cold and down track but hot after a run has 20 w 10-30 oil and 30 with 20-50 oil. I have tried both std and hv oil pumps same results at idle. I have a .080 hole in the bushing for oil to the lifter I am wondering if that is too big or If I have too much lifter bore clearance. Was going to change both when I disassemble next winter. I also run 030 restrictors in the pushrods
Posted By: MRMOPAR622
Re: Oil pressure issues STILL !!!!! Help needed - 04/05/10 01:30 PM
On the top on cover of the pump is your pressure spring(I think thats what its called).But if it does not have any washers in it,you can put up to 3 in it. Most of the time 2 is about right. This will give you more pressure,maybe a little more than needed when cold. But what you are after is pressure after its hot.
What is your pressure when going down the track? I have been told as long as you have 10 lbs of pressure for every 1,000 RPM you are good to go. The idle pressure is nt much to worry about.
I sure some others on here can help you a lot better.
Posted By: MRMOPAR622
Re: Oil pressure issues STILL !!!!! Help needed - 04/05/10 01:32 PM
I will check in a few mins and get back,but I am thinking with my 572-13 heads do not oil thru the lifters and push rods.
Posted By: sc301v
Re: Oil pressure issues STILL !!!!! Help needed - 04/05/10 01:35 PM
Quote:
I have a little of the same problem. mega block with isky lifters but have lifter bushings. I also pushrod oil b-1's + t+d's. Has 80 cold and down track but hot after a run has 20 w 10-30 oil and 30 with 20-50 oil. I have tried both std and hv oil pumps same results at idle. I have a .080 hole in the bushing for oil to the lifter I am wondering if that is too big or If I have too much lifter bore clearance. Was going to change both when I disassemble next winter. I also run 030 restrictors in the pushrods
I would be tickled to death with 30 at an idle..
My pressure now is with 20-50 oil
Posted By: challenger1320
Re: Oil pressure issues STILL !!!!! Help needed - 04/05/10 02:35 PM
I had the exact same problem with a 572 with -1 heads. Turned out the oil filter was the problem. It was crushing the element and stopping the oil flow.
Posted By: Al_Alguire
Re: Oil pressure issues STILL !!!!! Help needed - 04/05/10 02:43 PM
What filter? Sorry what filter is th OP using.. Isn't Mopar Fram?
Posted By: challenger1320
Re: Oil pressure issues STILL !!!!! Help needed - 04/05/10 02:45 PM
Mopar
Posted By: MRMOPAR622
Re: Oil pressure issues STILL !!!!! Help needed - 04/05/10 02:53 PM
I have a System One oil filter. Everyone needs one.
Had to go pick up the Wifes car at her work place.Going out to the shop to put some plugs in it and will check my push rods & lifters. I think they do not oil thru them.
Posted By: 602heavy
Re: Oil pressure issues STILL !!!!! Help needed - 04/05/10 03:09 PM
I get around 20psi @ idle & 50psi down track with 20/50 @ 180* temp , indy 572-13 heads with spray bar oiling along with PR oiling , lifter bores are unbushed with lifters drilled for .030" oiling for pushrods , pushrods are not restricted although rocke arm adjusters are not drilled (plugged them) , i found an improvement on oil pressure when i opened up all oil ways in oil pump , also opened up oil ways in sandwhich plate & oil pump filter adaptor , i had around 10psi before drilling the HV oil pump , seems this mod allows more volume of oil through the pump which will help maintain a better pressure @ idle , i like the leak down @ lifter bore (un bushed)when running roller lifters , i run this on the street with no issues , idle is around 1000rpm with oil pressure @ 15/20psi , what is you're idle speed?
Posted By: sc301v
Re: Oil pressure issues STILL !!!!! Help needed - 04/05/10 03:09 PM
I use Wix racing filters....Have never had one collapse.So i can pretty much rule that out on my side.
Posted By: jamesc
Re: Oil pressure issues STILL !!!!! Help needed - 04/05/10 03:33 PM
like Bob was getting at (i assume) are the lifters uncovering the oil galley any?
Posted By: sc301v
Re: Oil pressure issues STILL !!!!! Help needed - 04/05/10 03:51 PM
Quote:
like Bob was getting at (i assume) are the lifters uncovering the oil galley any?
That is my guess that the band on the lifter is letting the pressure bleed off...I asked about that several times before ordering the lifters but thats a whole different story.
Posted By: jamesc
Re: Oil pressure issues STILL !!!!! Help needed - 04/05/10 04:24 PM
Quote:
I asked about that several times before ordering the lifters but thats a whole different story.
yea it seems to be a real crap shoot when it comes to using rollers in these engines especially larger lifts and/or base circle...just one hassle after another. you do your best to research and make sure you're getting the right stuff and still have problems (if that's what it is).
Posted By: challenger1320
Re: Oil pressure issues STILL !!!!! Help needed - 04/05/10 05:21 PM
I have over .800 lift without bushings with no problems now that I changed to a system one oil filter. A filter is cheap try changing it you never no all it takes is the bypass in the filter to fail and you will crush the filter.
Posted By: Cab_Burge
Re: Oil pressure issues STILL !!!!! Help needed - 04/05/10 05:43 PM
I believe in the 10 lbs. per thousand RPM rule on my motors, idling and at WOT. My 518 pump gas street motor with a Comp Cams solid roller cam with no lifter bushongs idles around 17 to 25 lbs hot(160 to 195 F) with 5W20 wt Valvoline petroleum(non Synthetic) based oil in it. Five years of hard use at the track shiftiing at or above 7000 RPM and on the street. My clearances are looser than yours also, .0032+ rods and almost .0039 on the mains using the narrow full groove Federal Mogul truck bearings
My lifter bores all have .0025 or more clearnaces in them
My new motor has the lifter bores bushed
Posted By: sc301v
Re: Oil pressure issues STILL !!!!! Help needed - 04/05/10 06:31 PM
Wander if i get .020 restrictors put in the pushrods instead of .030 if that would make much of a difference.
Posted By: FastmOp
Re: Oil pressure issues STILL !!!!! Help needed - 04/05/10 10:32 PM
I think that can't hurt. I had to restrict my shafts oil supply on my Indy rockers.
Posted By: Ron Silva
Re: Oil pressure issues STILL !!!!! Help needed - 04/05/10 11:07 PM
If the oil band (really the bottom of the lifter) was creating a leak at max lift you can physically see this if you pre-oil the motor on the stand (or chassis) with the intake off. Oil will squirt out over the cam shaft. Run the drill and rotate the motor slowly at least 2 turns to check. Also if this is happening the oil pressure might fluctuate or pulse when the engine is running.
Also in my Small block switching to lifters with the oil feed to the roller wheel it dropped my oil pressure something like 10-15PSI at idle over the ones without. I think that feed should be an edge orfice and not feed from the oil band, but what do I know??
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: Oil pressure issues STILL !!!!! Help needed - 04/07/10 10:45 AM
i've used those exact lifters in unbushed blocks a number of times and have never experienced the type of problem you describe.
basically you have a bunch of "controlled" leaks, (i.e. oil to the roller and pushrod oiling.)it's not likely your uncovering the oil gallery, but did you check when installing the lifters? what was your measured lifter to bore clearance during installation? without that information, one could only guess at where the problem may be IMO. is it time for a better pump? the dual line is great, but is the pump itself capable of supplying the volume you need? the dual line is on the INPUT side of the pump, not the OUTPUT.
my guess is that in order to actually fix the problem, you'll have to start investigating all area's of the oiling system and critical dimensons and clearances.
Posted By: HardcoreB
Re: Oil pressure issues STILL !!!!! Help needed - 04/07/10 11:32 AM
Lots of good ideas here but, I didn't see anyone suggest looking at the oil PRV circuit...It may be a simple solution. I know noone has problems with Milodon pumps...
...but every once in a blue moon something can go wrong. It'd be simple enough to check anyway.
Posted By: RC91
Re: Oil pressure issues STILL !!!!! Help needed - 04/07/10 11:50 AM
Is there possibly a diamond shaped stamp on the block number pad denoting .008 oversized lifter bores? (I would hope not on a mega block, but...)
Posted By: Cab_Burge
Re: Oil pressure issues STILL !!!!! Help needed - 04/07/10 05:07 PM
Verify the gauge, check it agianst another known accurate gauge
BTW what is your idle speed?
Posted By: sc301v
Re: Oil pressure issues STILL !!!!! Help needed - 04/07/10 07:02 PM
Cab the idle speed is around 12 and 1300
Posted By: Cab_Burge
Re: Oil pressure issues STILL !!!!! Help needed - 04/08/10 04:25 AM
Is this a aluminum block?
Posted By: sc301v
Re: Oil pressure issues STILL !!!!! Help needed - 04/08/10 12:29 PM
Nope its steel
Posted By: MRMOPAR622
Re: Oil pressure issues STILL !!!!! Help needed - 04/08/10 01:59 PM
Last season before a roller lifter went out and got in my oil pump. With the Indy single line pump(with 2 washers on the pressure spring) and dragster pan I had 80 lbs @ idle Hot & Cold when you revved the engine it would go up to 100 lbs.
So my question is have you took your pickup out and checked it? I had cleaned my oil pan before,but never took the pickup out. Could something be blocking some of the opening?
I hope to get my heads back in a few days. I have already made a mistake before I start back on the engine. I was sure my engine did not oil thru the lifters and push rods,but it does.
It would be nice if all of us could make a list of things to check are do before building our engines. I know I had rather spend a little more time and money now than have to go back later hunting things to fix.
Posted By: sc301v
Re: Oil pressure issues STILL !!!!! Help needed - 04/08/10 03:09 PM
Yes the pickup has been takin out and cleaned thourghly when i had it apart this winter..
Posted By: Cab_Burge
Re: Oil pressure issues STILL !!!!! Help needed - 04/08/10 08:05 PM
Quote:
Nope its steel
I don't have any other thoughts on this, please let us know what you find that caused this problem. (maybe check that gauge )
Posted By: 602heavy
Re: Oil pressure issues STILL !!!!! Help needed - 04/08/10 08:31 PM
SC30 , i have the same set up as you . also had the same issues as you're having , i got there in the end as i'm sure you will , get the motor on the engine stand & figure where the excessive leak down is & i'm sure you'll fix the problem , when you prime the motor it should all come clear.
As i said previously in this post , the oil pump mod netted an increase in oil pressure of around 10/15psi.
Good luck.
Posted By: moparbud
Re: Oil pressure issues STILL !!!!! Help needed - 04/09/10 12:40 AM
my 500ci and indy sr heads was doing the same thing 75psi cold and 10psi hot i used holley jets to restrict the oil flow to the rocker shafts have good oil psi now