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Cranking Compression?

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Cranking Compression? - 03/16/10 11:38 AM

Does anyone know of a cranking compression calculator
to see what I should see for my engine... I'm going
to do a compression test today and a leak down but I
would like to know what it SHOULD be
thanks
Posted By: emarine01

Re: Cranking Compression? - 03/16/10 11:59 AM

Mike, try searching for not2fast they had a online calc
Posted By: cl440

Re: Cranking Compression? - 03/16/10 12:30 PM

I would be very interested in seeing this calculator also!
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: Cranking Compression? - 03/16/10 12:39 PM

Quote:

I would be very interested in seeing this calculator also!




I looked at it and I would say its WAY off plus it
doesnt ask certain things that MUST be known
www.not2fast.com/turbo/compression/cranking_pressure.shtml
Posted By: roadhazard

Re: Cranking Compression? - 03/16/10 01:08 PM

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: Cranking Compression? - 03/16/10 01:42 PM

If anyone knows their cranking compression and can
test that calculator PLEASE let me know if its even
close
Posted By: cl440

Re: Cranking Compression? - 03/16/10 01:47 PM

It is a bit confusing to me? For stroke it says "Same units as rod length" and for Rod length it says "Same units as stroke" so do I enter rod length for stroke and stroke for rod length?
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: Cranking Compression? - 03/16/10 01:51 PM

Quote:

It is a bit confusing to me? For stroke it says "Same units as rod length" and for Rod length it says "Same units as stroke" so do I enter rod length for stroke and stroke for rod length?




I was thinking they meant metric or american
Posted By: cl440

Re: Cranking Compression? - 03/16/10 02:00 PM

Quote:

Quote:

It is a bit confusing to me? For stroke it says "Same units as rod length" and for Rod length it says "Same units as stroke" so do I enter rod length for stroke and stroke for rod length?




I was thinking they meant metric or american





You may be correct?

I can say that our 528 Aluminum block has 155# of cranking pressure with the engine warm. This is with a tight lash long duration (290 @ .050) .650 lift solid cam and 13:1 compression and 440-1 heads. Is that where it is supposed to be???? I dont know for sure but we were happy with its performance and it made its fastest pass of the season at the last race last year.

Attached picture 5868525-7434_1126379884042_1363524361_298887_744769_n.jpg
Posted By: Mike Swann

Re: Cranking Compression? - 03/16/10 02:04 PM

Mike,

If you can use an excell spead sheet, pm me your private email address and I will send you a file that will do this.
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: Cranking Compression? - 03/16/10 02:09 PM

Well it says for mine I should be seeing 307 psi
cranking pressure(no way) I just did a compression
test and its 150 in 1 cyl and as high as 175 in another
with a average of 165 and based on the cranking pressure
I would have 9.4 compression ratio.... I'm going to
do a leak down in a little bit also... I know when I
built the engine I had a leak rate of just under 3%
(between 2.5 to 2.8 percent)
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: Cranking Compression? - 03/16/10 02:10 PM

Quote:

Mike,

If you can use an excell spead sheet, pm me your private email address and I will send you a file that will do this.




Thanks Mike
mracerraff@aol.com
Posted By: cudadon

Re: Cranking Compression? - 03/16/10 02:12 PM

mike compr. is a relative test. cam timing / bleed off has a lot to do with it. if the cyls are within 10-15% thats ok. leak down will tell if the cylinder/valves are sealing good. Don

Attached picture 5868545-indy07.JPG
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: Cranking Compression? - 03/16/10 02:15 PM

Quote:

mike compr. is a relative test. cam timing / bleed off has a lot to do with it. if the cyls are within 10-15% thats ok. leak down will tell if the cylinder/valves are sealing good. Don




That I know and thats why I dont want to go by that
calculator above... it doesnt ask the IVC point which
is a must know
Posted By: Tig

Re: Cranking Compression? - 03/16/10 02:18 PM

I don't know how it did it
On the gauge we had around 125 psi (cam installed as per card) the calculator showed 126psi
Posted By: Dodgem

Re: Cranking Compression? - 03/16/10 02:21 PM

This one seems to be real close
http://www.rbracing-rsr.com/comprAdvHD.htm
Posted By: Tig

Re: Cranking Compression? - 03/16/10 02:28 PM

Quote:

This one seems to be real close
http://www.rbracing-rsr.com/comprAdvHD.htm




30+ psi off with that one I'm scratching my head now
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: Cranking Compression? - 03/16/10 02:33 PM

Quote:

This one seems to be real close
http://www.rbracing-rsr.com/comprAdvHD.htm




According to that one its about 10 psi lower than
the other one and this one asked for the valve position...
I think I have some issues
Posted By: aarcuda

Re: Cranking Compression? - 03/16/10 02:43 PM

Quote:

Quote:

mike compr. is a relative test. cam timing / bleed off has a lot to do with it. if the cyls are within 10-15% thats ok. leak down will tell if the cylinder/valves are sealing good. Don




That I know and thats why I dont want to go by that
calculator above... it doesnt ask the IVC point which
is a must know





make sure youre not using cam duration at .050. when you do, the numbers go into the 300 psig range.
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: Cranking Compression? - 03/16/10 02:50 PM

make sure youre not using cam duration at .050. when you do, the numbers go into the 300 psig range.





The last calculator asked for the valve event at .050
and it shows that my cranking pressure SHOULD be 298
or close to that and I'm a LONG way short of that
Posted By: POS Dakota

Re: Cranking Compression? - 03/16/10 03:00 PM

Quote:

Does anyone know of a cranking compression calculator
to see what I should see for my engine... I'm going
to do a compression test today and a leak down but I
would like to know what it SHOULD be
thanks



http://www.wallaceracing.com/dynamic-cr.php
Posted By: moparacer

Re: Cranking Compression? - 03/16/10 03:20 PM

Wallace has about every calculator you would ever need.

They have a dynamic and effective comp calculator.

Posted By: moper

Re: Cranking Compression? - 03/16/10 03:28 PM

I use the KB site one. It's simple (aside from remembering the negative figure for dome volume/positive deck height) and is within 20psi of my results in most cases.
Posted By: mopar dave

Re: Cranking Compression? - 03/16/10 03:38 PM

the wallace racing cal. is real close with mine.
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: Cranking Compression? - 03/16/10 04:28 PM

Well with checking all the different calculators and
doing a compression check MAYBE I dont have the compression
I thought I had.... I cant believe I was that far off
when I checked the measurements when I built it....
it comes up with a 9.5 compression ratio on just about
all of them..... I did a leak down and that showed
pretty decent, from 2% to 7% ... no wonder
I'm
not making the power I figure it should
Posted By: Thumperdart

Re: Cranking Compression? - 03/16/10 04:34 PM

Too many variables..........just test it and you`ll know for sure. My experience shows that big duration cams w/lots of overlap generally show lower numbers for example: my 360 w/a dur. of 255@ .050 cranked bet 190-200 cold. My 470 w/275-280 dur.@.050 cranks bet 170-175 and my buddys low 8-sec chevy small block w/a BIG roller(don`t remember #`s) cranks at 155 or so.
Posted By: mopar dave

Re: Cranking Compression? - 03/16/10 05:33 PM

mine comes in at 9.5 dynamic with 200psi. this is with 11.4 static using a 268/272 solid roller.
Posted By: Thumperdart

Re: Cranking Compression? - 03/16/10 05:39 PM

Quote:

mine comes in at 9.5 dynamic with 200psi. this is with 11.4 static using a 268/272 solid roller.


Are those advertised #`s or @.050?
Posted By: emarine01

Re: Cranking Compression? - 03/16/10 05:41 PM

Mike , my junk comes close on all of the above my cranking comp is 220 and the calcs are coming in @ 217 to 229 Remember to add in your cam advance cause it closes the intake earlier, the calc guys left that out
Posted By: quick77rt

Re: Cranking Compression? - 03/16/10 05:54 PM

Try throwing altutude in the mix, I went from 1300 ft to 8400 ft and lost 45 psi on all 8 holes.

Now I tune for 6000ft which is what the track is. I thought I was going to have to change the cam but it doesnt seem to be the case.
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: Cranking Compression? - 03/16/10 05:54 PM

Thats the one thing ... I dont have a degree at 0,
my cam card only has .050 for the valve timing and
my cam is a 276/284
Posted By: emarine01

Re: Cranking Compression? - 03/16/10 06:02 PM

Mike, try adding like 25 or 30 to your .050 for a solid roller ramp and see what happens
Posted By: mopar dave

Re: Cranking Compression? - 03/16/10 06:41 PM

intake valve closes at 58*atdc and yes i believe that is at .050".
Posted By: mopar dave

Re: Cranking Compression? - 03/16/10 06:55 PM

if i put the cam advance in i get 206 cranking with 216 volume to pressure index. whats the volume to pressure index representing or what does it mean?
Posted By: 602heavy

Re: Cranking Compression? - 03/16/10 07:16 PM

Never found these calculators to be accurate , some of them ask for intake valve closure @ .050" & add 15* ............unless you know where the intake valve closes (seat) then it's a all guessing game.
Posted By: AndyF

Re: Cranking Compression? - 03/16/10 07:37 PM

I don't see how you can work backwards to CR from cranking compression. Put a 16V system on there and the cranking compression will go up due to the faster cranking speed. Pull all the plugs and pull the carb off the intake and the cranking compression will go up a bunch. Do it warm and the cranking compression will go up.
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: Cranking Compression? - 03/16/10 08:00 PM

Quote:

I don't see how you can work backwards to CR from cranking compression. Put a 16V system on there and the cranking compression will go up due to the faster cranking speed. Pull all the plugs and pull the carb off the intake and the cranking compression will go up a bunch. Do it warm and the cranking compression will go up.




One of the calculators stated it for a 300 crank RPM
and I am assuming they do some magic calculations to
come up with a number
Posted By: aarcuda

Re: Cranking Compression? - 03/16/10 08:13 PM

i used http://www.not2fast.com/turbo/compression/cranking_pressure.shtml

for intake opening I only have .050 also. in the instructions it says to add 40 (thats 20 degrees x 2) to the duration at .050 so i did and it came out to 166.

my cranking pressure is surprisingly 165
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: Cranking Compression? - 03/16/10 08:40 PM

That comes out much closer(with in 5 psi)
Posted By: cudadon

Re: Cranking Compression? - 03/16/10 11:23 PM

Quote:

Well with checking all the different calculators and
doing a compression check MAYBE I dont have the compression
I thought I had.... I cant believe I was that far off
when I checked the measurements when I built it....
it comes up with a 9.5 compression ratio on just about

all of them..... I did a leak down and that showed
pretty decent, from 2% to 7% ... no wonder
I'm
not making the power I figure it should
[/quote

Mike did you cc the block and the chamber? That will tell the truth. Don


Attached picture 5869510-cordova.jpg
Posted By: CHAPPER

Re: Cranking Compression? - 03/16/10 11:29 PM

I don't understand any of this stuff you all are WORRYING about. If the engine was put together and you KNOW what the static compression is/was/should be,,,you are not going to change that figure with all these 'calculations'. A leak-down test will show you if there is a problem in the valves/rings/headgaskets etc. Why worry and ask questions about your engine? If the leakage is high,,you have a problem in that cylinder.....simple enough I think.
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: Cranking Compression? - 03/17/10 12:02 AM

Mike did you cc the block and the chamber? That will tell the truth. Don






Yes I did when I built it
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: Cranking Compression? - 03/17/10 12:12 AM

Quote:

I don't understand any of this stuff you all are WORRYING about. If the engine was put together and you KNOW what the static compression is/was/should be,,,you are not going to change that figure with all these 'calculations'. A leak-down test will show you if there is a problem in the valves/rings/headgaskets etc. Why worry and ask questions about your engine? If the leakage is high,,you have a problem in that cylinder.....simple enough I think.





Pretty simple really.... I was going to do a compression
test and wanted to know what it should be... thats
all, I wanted to do the compression test before I
pulled the rockers to do the leak down
Posted By: emarine01

Re: Cranking Compression? - 03/17/10 12:42 AM

I think once you have your intake closing point close for the calc it should fall with in 10 psi of your gauge reading, the calcs are a little confusing on the duration methods
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: Cranking Compression? - 03/17/10 12:52 AM

Quote:

I think once you have your intake closing point close for the calc it should fall with in 10 psi of your gauge reading, the calcs are a little confusing on the duration methods




It came real close once I added the 40* (which I didnt
read before)... I guess you need to read the directions...LOL
Posted By: aarcuda

Re: Cranking Compression? - 03/17/10 01:11 AM

Quote:

Quote:

I think once you have your intake closing point close for the calc it should fall with in 10 psi of your gauge reading, the calcs are a little confusing on the duration methods




It came real close once I added the 40* (which I didnt
read before)... I guess you need to read the directions...LOL





hehehe, when i did it the first time, i didnt read the destructions and came out to something like 300 psig
Posted By: galen

Re: Cranking Compression? - 03/17/10 04:03 AM

Mike using the calculator on the Not2fast.com site you gave. I punched in 10.20comp.4.150 stroke.6.76 rod. My cam card list duration on intake at 296, or 263 at.050. So I put in 296. 0 alt. 70 degree temp. says I should have 152, Mine runs 155 average cranking. Close if I am right with the duration number.
Posted By: polyspheric

Re: Cranking Compression? - 03/17/10 05:38 AM

whats the volume to pressure index representing or what does it mean?


That's so kewl!
They "borrowed" it from my (copyright-protected) site.
It's the DCR times the actual trapped cylinder volume times a .6% correction factor to approximate low speed torque for converter stall purposes,etc.
Posted By: n_bogie1984

Re: Cranking Compression? - 03/17/10 10:56 AM

i used the not to fast one on my
4.15 crank
6.670 rod
12 to 1 flat top with a .484 mp hyd cam
shows cranking pressure of 200
and when i built it last year with file fit rings it showed 180-185 every cyl
Posted By: aarcuda

Re: Cranking Compression? - 03/17/10 12:17 PM

Quote:

i used the not to fast one on my
4.15 crank
6.670 rod
12 to 1 flat top with a .484 mp hyd cam
shows cranking pressure of 200
and when i built it last year with file fit rings it showed 180-185 every cyl




might have 12:1 flat top pistons BUT what is your actual compression ratio? could be much lower than 12:1 if the block wasnt decked, head volume cc'd, too thick of a gasket etc....
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