B1 Valve Gear Geometry ???

You can't run them like that, if you do you will have the guides wore out in no time. Plus if you run the motor through a rotation and watch it will more than likely run the trunion off the back of the valve. I don't think that lash caps will fill that void. Looks like you will need a longer valve to get the right geometry. If you try and shim that mess you will run the intake off the front.
I can't believe they set the head up like that, the valves should be set up within a couple thou on valve height.
I'm not an expert just my opinion.

Whats the spring PN, installed height of the E & I and how high do you intend to wind it up?

BTW, the ex looks pretty close.

Dick, have you tried the lash caps?

Lash caps wont help...You need to correct th valve stem height problem first....This will require the head to have the seats machined correctly.
Then machine the stands or shim them to get the correct geometry....
They are correct, no way will that work currently.
The person who set the heads up should have checked that out IMO...

No "band aid" solution I can think of is going to resolve that situation. Whomever did the prep work on the heads should have seen that coming and let the owner know it was going to need some $$$ and rethinking the parts combination to straighten that out. Just an IMO, naturally.

Lash caps on the intake would make the problem worse. If I put them on the exhaust side they would get the valve stem heights closer but the exhausts are real close to right already.

This morning I mocked up 1 intake and 1 exhaust with no springs installed so I could run the gear through it's travel easily and take some measurements.

The intake rollers get pretty close to centered on the valve tip at somewhere over half travel. Not right in my opinion but maybe workeable. If I can't get new valves here pretty fast I'll probably put it together this way and hope for the best 'til next season.

The exhaust valves are .100 shorter than the intakes. I think they are just about right as is so if I can run them without lash caps they will probably be OK.

If I was to run it this way it would mean two different length pushrods.

If I can get the shorter intake valves that'll mean I have a brand new set of 5.50" long, 11/32" stem, 2.40" diameter titanium intake valves that I'm into around $1000 for sale. Anybody interested?

Shimming the stands up probably won't work. As the shafts move up they get closer to the spring and retainer which eventually causes them to rub at the rocker radius and from prior experience I can tell you that's NOT good.

Also, that would still leave the problem of two different height valve tips and different length pushrods.

well, that's a mess for sure. i'm curious about the valve spring installed height on both the intake and exhaust. can you tell us what it is currently...

So why is Koffel backing away from this? there must be some reason he doesn't want to make it right. Did he do all the work? Help us understand what's going on. This sounds like an Indy story, not Koffel.

DRAM, I'm going to measure that tomorrow. I broke both my pairs of Starrett dial calipers today. Had them since 1978! I'll set up everything and use a telescoping gauge and micrometer. My motor dude says the installed heights are both wrong.

Tom, Scott says they've been sending them out this way for years with no problems,

It's pretty hard to disregard what Mitchell says I need to do. Guy and Roy (Paola) have both been building serious race stuff for what, 40 years? Mitchell puts together 2000+ HP funny car motors that live as long as most bracket motors.

Guy's a good personal friend and he just wants to see my stuff live.

That's not correct and I would not accept that "they have been building engine for XX amount of years and who are you to questions my experience" Bull crap.

#1 who cares what the installed height is ,if the valve length is wrong it will not work

#2 The intake is to long period .

#3 If they piled up the valve job so bad that the valve is .100 deep in the seat , they have no business selling heads. ( not to mention that you will have brutally bad air flow.

The B1 head is still a in line valve cylinder head. The intake and exhaust rocker arm have the same fulcrum point and are parallel in relationship with the valve .

You should have a 5.400" intake and a 5.400" exhaust .

Get on the horn and make them get you new valves.

The Koffels are pretty good at fixing there mistakes ,you just have to call them on it. ( If that was the vender that sold you the parts. )

100%

put lash caps on all the valves & shim the shafts as close as you can get to the retainers.if you keep these valves,you are not going to get around having diff pushrod lenths.or start over with longer exhaust valves.

Have you sent scott the pictures? Im sure once he sees this he will correct it.

Wow, that's a mess I would not try to make that work, take it apart and measure

OK Guys

I appreciate the input. I also want to say my intention here was just to get an idea if it would be safe to run the heads this way. If I went to the head builder and said "fix this" I'm sure they would.

All I want to do at this point is get it put together as cheaply and quickly as possible but so it'll live, and not miss any more of the season than I have to.

Nice Scott


Another happy customer

Just for fun:
1. Changing the rocker height, stem height, lash cap etc. all change the geometry - they are not adjustments.
2. There is no "correct" valve length, only correct for a specific geo method (Miller, etc.), rocker ratio, and lobe height.
3. The position of the roller on the stem with correct geo only 1/32" from the edge will do less damage than centered by trashing the geo - which is what is advised several times here.

What to do:
STOP.
Set the geometry using the parts you have now.
Assuming mid-lift is your target, the roller should begin on the stem edge closest to the shaft side, roll across the stem to center @ 25% lift, continue across to 50% lift at the far side, stop, and reverse, passing through 75% on center and reaching full lift at the same position as closed.
If it does that, and the roller is too close to the near edge, you need to shorten both the stands and valves to separate them by the difference between the vertical stand position and stem axis. Too close to the far edge: raise both.

Ding Ding...We have a winner..




Chris..

FWIW, I pulled an intake valve spring and lowered the valve by the suggested .100" then ran the valve through a couple cycles with a dial indicator to keep track of things.

With the .100 lower valve tip starting point the roller to valve tip relationship stayed real close to what polyspheric says we want to see.

In case anybody missed my "update" here it is again.

Scott contacted me and Koffel's is having Manley make me the shorter intake valves that my motor "Guy" (inside joke ) wants.

Still hoping to salvage a little bit of this season!