Moparts
Don't use a toggle switch for your line loc?
Posted By: Lawn Monkey
Don't use a toggle switch for your line loc? - 02/21/10 06:18 PM
"Don't use a toggle switch for your line loc" read in another post but I don't get and yes I have a toggle switch line loc,,,,,,,,, what am I missing?????????
Posted By: jamesc
Re: Don't use a toggle switch for your line loc? - 02/21/10 06:21 PM
not sure exactly what you mean but if you have a toggle switch only and forget to turn it off the shutdown could become interesting. haven't used a line loc in a long time but IIRC many if not all of them kinda worked like a check valve. if you inadvertently have the switch on at the end of the run and jump on the brakes the fronts won't release when you let off the pedal...not something you want to happen
Posted By: tboomer
Re: Don't use a toggle switch for your line loc? - 02/21/10 06:21 PM
You may forget to turn it off...Then all sorts of nasty things can happen...
Posted By: Ron Silva
Re: Don't use a toggle switch for your line loc? - 02/21/10 06:25 PM
You can use a toggle sw. Maybe someone is confusing the rule book where it says the line lock solenoid has to be self returning to a normal state. In other words when the power is lost the spring inside pushes the plunger to restore NORMAL brake operation.
Could you imagine if the power was lost due to something like a blown fuse causing a disabling your brakes!!!!
Posted By: jamesc
Re: Don't use a toggle switch for your line loc? - 02/21/10 06:32 PM
that's my point. it's been MANY years since i used one but i do remember some (if not all) of them you would engage the loc then press the brake trapping the fluid, then release the brake. if you use a toggle switch and it somehow gets left on during the run then hit the brakes hard and release the the brakes fronts won't release. i would think a momentary push button is less likely for this to happen.
Posted By: Thumperdart
Re: Don't use a toggle switch for your line loc? - 02/21/10 06:36 PM
I`ve been using a toggle switch from day one. I pump the brakes hard, hit the toggle, do my burn out then shut it off it in 3rd gear and roll foreward and stage. So far so good.
Posted By: Ron Silva
Re: Don't use a toggle switch for your line loc? - 02/21/10 06:39 PM
Gee, every time I race I do a burnout. Everytime I am done with the burnout I release the line loc and roll out of the water. After that my hands go to the steering wheel and shifter. It's not going to get left on. Everything does not have to be "idiot proof". I guess I can forget to steer straight and hit the wall too. I am being sarcastic. But I am responsible for the operation of the car and I have confidence I will not forget it.
Posted By: Lawn Monkey
Re: Don't use a toggle switch for your line loc? - 02/21/10 06:40 PM
Quote:
that's my point. it's been MANY years since i used one but i do remember some (if not all) of them you would engage the loc then press the brake trapping the fluid, then release the brake. if you use a toggle switch and it somehow gets left on during the run then hit the brakes hard and release the the brakes fronts won't release. i would think a momentary push button is less like for this to happen.
That's probably what was meant I see the reason and its possible but kinda unlikely but with a button the line loc could not accidentally be left on so it makes sense now.....
Posted By: jamesc
Re: Don't use a toggle switch for your line loc? - 02/21/10 06:42 PM
after some of the things i've seen at the track...well you get the idea.
Posted By: Cab_Burge
Re: Don't use a toggle switch for your line loc? - 02/21/10 07:19 PM
Quote:
after some of the things i've seen at the track...well you get the idea.
Murphy likes drag racers 
What ever that can go wrong will in the most inoportune time 
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: Don't use a toggle switch for your line loc? - 02/21/10 07:30 PM
Back when I ran a shorty T-flite that did away with park in the van, I used the linelock like a parking brack. That is why I put in a switch for a short time hold. If I left the van for a long line I would put a block of wood under the tire and turn the switch off.
When I went to the glide I had a park but never changed it back. Never have had a problem either.
Posted By: gtsdude
Re: Don't use a toggle switch for your line loc? - 02/21/10 07:40 PM
I use one with a red cover on it, easy to tell if you leave it up and cant get bumped on accidently.
Posted By: Runner
Re: Don't use a toggle switch for your line loc? - 02/21/10 07:47 PM
i may be wrong but isnt this how ted put his car into the wall?
everyone thinks they wont mess up, until they do.
imo a momentary switch weather it be toggle or button should be the only way it should be wired.
Posted By: Cab_Burge
Re: Don't use a toggle switch for your line loc? - 02/21/10 07:54 PM
Quote:
i may be wrong but isnt this how ted put his car into the wall?
everyone thinks they wont mess up, until they do.
imo a momentary switch weather it be toggle or button should be the only way it should be wired.
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: Don't use a toggle switch for your line loc? - 02/21/10 11:15 PM
Quote:
i may be wrong but isnt this how ted put his car into the wall?
everyone thinks they wont mess up, until they do.
imo a momentary switch weather it be toggle or button should be the only way it should be wired.
x2 a toggle switch on a line loc does not go in the same equation.
momentary switch with a red light to show it went off. no other way imo.
Posted By: Rodney
Re: Don't use a toggle switch for your line loc? - 02/21/10 11:27 PM
for what it's worth self returning switch of some sort never a switch that could be left on.
mistakes do happen even if you've been doing it for a long time one could screw up.
Example.
A racer for a LONG time finished a pass {lucky @ 1/8 mile track} after the finish line for some reason he doesn't know why he reached over and slammed it in to reverse.
off in the bushes he went. after going every which way but strength. never say never
Posted By: ProSport
Re: Don't use a toggle switch for your line loc? - 02/21/10 11:40 PM
After using a toggle switch for my line lock for about 2 decades with no problems at all, I have to ask, how am I even gonna drive to the starting line if I accidently left something on that has my front brakes locked up?
I start in 2nd gear for a half second, go to 3rd, flip my toggle off and power out, coast to starting line. Not even possible to leave it on.
Posted By: dave571
Re: Don't use a toggle switch for your line loc? - 02/22/10 12:39 AM
Quote:
After using a toggle switch for my line lock for about 2 decades with no problems at all, I have to ask, how am I even gonna drive to the starting line if I accidently left something on that has my front brakes locked up?
I start in 2nd gear for a half second, go to 3rd, flip my toggle off and power out, coast to starting line. Not even possible to leave it on.
That's the way I do it. Flick it off, and move my hand to the wheel as I roll out of the box.
Everyone has to decide where the line is on making stuff "idiot proof"
In all honesty, I don't think anything is idiot proof.
Posted By: 440Jim
Re: Don't use a toggle switch for your line loc? - 02/22/10 12:43 AM
Quote:
I use one with a red cover on it, easy to tell if you leave it up and cant get bumped on accidently.
Good answer. IMO, you can use one. You have to release it to get out of the water box (that is what a line lock is used for... the burn out [not a clutch car]).
But mine is a button on the top of the shifter.
Posted By: tboomer
Re: Don't use a toggle switch for your line loc? - 02/22/10 04:03 PM
Quote:
i may be wrong but isnt this how ted put his car into the wall?
everyone thinks they wont mess up, until they do.
imo a momentary switch weather it be toggle or button should be the only way it should be wired.
Yupp...That is what happened.. 
Old Murphy was against me that day...Like others say..Things can and will go wrong!! 
Posted By: DaytonaTurbo
Re: Don't use a toggle switch for your line loc? - 02/22/10 04:19 PM
Quote:
After using a toggle switch for my line lock for about 2 decades with no problems at all, I have to ask, how am I even gonna drive to the starting line if I accidently left something on that has my front brakes locked up?
I start in 2nd gear for a half second, go to 3rd, flip my toggle off and power out, coast to starting line. Not even possible to leave it on.
That's what I was thinking too. If you left it on, how would you get out of the water box? Or out of the starting gate?
Posted By: sixpackgut
Re: Don't use a toggle switch for your line loc? - 02/22/10 05:02 PM
I think old timers would put the linelock on the back brakes and they would forget about it, then when they tried to stop it would be only the fronts working
Posted By: 47hudson
Re: Don't use a toggle switch for your line loc? - 02/22/10 09:59 PM
I can see that rule for a stick car which uses a line lock for staging but not for a guy like me who only uses it for the burnout.
Posted By: QuickDart 502
Re: Don't use a toggle switch for your line loc? - 02/22/10 10:10 PM
Quote:
I`ve been using a toggle switch from day one. I pump the brakes hard, hit the toggle, do my burn out then shut it off it in 3rd gear and roll foreward and stage. So far so good.
SO have I. I've never had a problem with a toggle switch. I shift the car into high gear in theburnout box the click it with my pinky finger and roll on out.
Posted By: moparniac
Re: Don't use a toggle switch for your line loc? - 02/22/10 10:15 PM
I had a toggle switch hooked up to my momentary switch on my B&M shifter button.... flipped on the toggle and the momentary button was now active...
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: Don't use a toggle switch for your line loc? - 02/22/10 10:49 PM
Racers Tip: Go out for a walk. While you are walking reach into your pocket and pull out some gum. Continue walking and put the gum into your mouth. Chew the gum. If you haven't broken stride yet, you can now use a toggle switch to do your burnout.
Posted By: BradH
Re: Don't use a toggle switch for your line loc? - 02/23/10 02:32 AM
Sorry to change the topic. I haven't finished the wiring for my line lock, although the actual solenoid has been integrated into my braking system since 2008. The button supplied w/ the Hurst unit I have looks pretty "budget" and won't attach to my OEM Slap-Stik shifter very easily. Any recommendations (other than a toggle switch
) for a better part to use here?
Posted By: ProSport
Re: Don't use a toggle switch for your line loc? - 02/23/10 03:25 AM
You can just go to Summit.com or Jegs.com and search through their buttons. It could go on your shifter or steering wheel.
Posted By: therocks
Re: Don't use a toggle switch for your line loc? - 02/23/10 12:16 PM
Probally because some guys use them to lock the rear brakes out.They do burnout and the rears arent working.Then they deactivate and they work.Stopping at 100 plus would be fun with just fronts.Rocky
Posted By: MR_P_BODY
Re: Don't use a toggle switch for your line loc? - 02/23/10 12:35 PM
Personally I use a button on the top of the shifter,
I do my burnout in high gear only and when its spinning
good I let go of the button and burn till it bites.
Too many things going on to MAYBE mess up and flip
the switch back on when you think you turned it off
but this is JMO
Posted By: Crizila
Re: Don't use a toggle switch for your line loc? - 02/23/10 01:22 PM
Quote:
Personally I use a button on the top of the shifter,
I do my burnout in high gear only and when its spinning
good I let go of the button and burn till it bites.
Too many things going on to MAYBE mess up and flip
the switch back on when you think you turned it off
but this is JMO
Exactly my routine also. Arming toggle switch on dash. Button next to shifter - and too old to change my routine now.
Posted By: GomangoCuda
Re: Don't use a toggle switch for your line loc? - 02/23/10 02:00 PM
Quote:
Everyone has to decide where the line is on making stuff "idiot proof"
In all honesty, I don't think anything is idiot proof.
Good point. I can't remember who said this:
"A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completly foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools"
I have a clutch so no toggle switch for me! But even that is not idiot proof. I saw a guy get so exited at the line that he "forgot" to let go of the button. When the wheels touched down he almost hit the wall.
Posted By: LAR_414
Re: Don't use a toggle switch for your line loc? - 02/23/10 03:42 PM
I use a momentary button on the shifter.
Here is proof that I can screw anything up:
First time out with my new stick trans in this car that I've had since I was 16 and I screwed up the first run. Pretty nervous. Staged and held just a few pound on the brakes to keep from rolling. My line loc was at the time, hooked to my two step rev limiter (set at 4500rpm). I dump the clutch at green and forget to let go of the button. Popping and banging and not going real fast. I shifted into second the same way and then I realized that it didn't feel right holding my shifter when shifting. "let go of the button, dummy!".
Still ran an 11.9, blowing the tires off, and eventually missing 3rd and 4th gear on that run. What a catastrophy!!!
Now I have simplified it. Clutch switch, and dash switch with relay. Push clutch in, push button on dash, that sets the 2-step. Once the clutch comes out all the way, 2 step is off and can't be reset until the button on the dash is pushed again (momentary). Switch on the shifter is now just for the line lock (momentary). Only really going to use it in the box and maybe, if the car want's to roll at the tree.
Just my little funny story,....sorry to bore you!
Posted By: 70HemiGTX
Re: Don't use a toggle switch for your line loc? - 02/25/10 10:27 AM
Isn't it still a rule that you MUST USE a "Self returning" to off switch on a line lock? I have an old rule book (2006 I think) and it is listed in the general regs (brakes very last line of the paragraph). I don't understan why anyone would even think of having a switch that would not return it's self to the normal operating position on the brake lines. There is always a first time for anything.
Posted By: Super Scamp
Re: Don't use a toggle switch for your line loc? - 02/25/10 11:48 AM
Quote:
Isn't it still a rule that you MUST USE a "Self returning" to off switch on a line lock? I have an old rule book (2006 I think) and it is listed in the general regs (brakes very last line of the paragraph). I don't understan why anyone would even think of having a switch that would not return it's self to the normal operating position on the brake lines. There is always a first time for anything.
True That's the rule A fail safe on the brake Line lock is the only way to go, with the eletronics that we can get our hands on today any driver would be stupid 
to install a ON & Off switch (toggle) in the car. 
If you boys need a switch for the line lock then install the proper line lock switch (Micro), Stage Control switch for under 30 bucks. Your life is worth that.
Don't wait to hit the wall be proactive and install the correct device 
Posted By: 52savoy
Re: Don't use a toggle switch for your line loc? - 02/25/10 02:50 PM
After reading all these post I was wondering when someone was going to mention the NHRA rule book
It would be great if we didn't have to follow the rules. I could have saved a bunch of money building my chassis car. ... use exhaust pipe and it would have been lighter too.
Quiz: Who tried that in his stocker and was thrown out of a national event?
Posted By: ProSport
Re: Don't use a toggle switch for your line loc? - 02/25/10 11:32 PM
You guys are right, it's best to try and follow every single little rule in that thick book of rules, especially if your building from scratch. But like I said, there's a Painless toggle on my dash for my line lock and it is in no way 'stupid' to have it there. I can't power out of the water box unless it's switched off.
What if someone has racing gloves on and doesn't realize they're finger is on their momentary button on their steering wheel or shifter til they hit the brakes at 130? Then are they gonna change the 'rule' to a toggle on the dash?
I just get tired of all the little rules, I still haven't removed my on/off knob on the back of the car to change it to a push/pull that they require now.
Posted By: plumridiculous
Re: Don't use a toggle switch for your line loc? - 02/26/10 03:13 AM
Quote:
You guys are right, it's best to try and follow every single little rule in that thick book of rules, especially if your building from scratch. But like I said, there's a Painless toggle on my dash for my line lock and it is in no way 'stupid' to have it there. I can't power out of the water box unless it's switched off.
What if someone has racing gloves on and doesn't realize they're finger is on their momentary button on their steering wheel or shifter til they hit the brakes at 130? Then are they gonna change the 'rule' to a toggle on the dash?
I just get tired of all the little rules, I still haven't removed my on/off knob on the back of the car to change it to a push/pull that they require now.
I use a toogle on the dash it works perfectly IMO and I really don't think i'm stupid either.
George..
Posted By: MoparBilly
Re: Don't use a toggle switch for your line loc? - 02/26/10 05:23 AM
My Dad had a toggle on the dash in his truck...worked great for the linelock!!
I use the button on the shifter..when I first got Nitrous I decided to run a toggle that would switch the button from line lock to Nitrous!
Needless to say, it only took hitting the Nitrous once, and jumping through the water box for me to realize that was a very, very BAD idea!!!
Posted By: 70HemiGTX
Re: Don't use a toggle switch for your line loc? - 02/26/10 10:42 AM
I guess I should clarify that I run a stick, so I have no way of holding the car at the line with out using a line lock. I assume you guys with toggle switches have a trans-brake in you car. If you look in the picture and see the red toggle switch, I have to turn that toggle switch on before I can use my line lock. If I have it in the off position I can't apply the line lock at the momentary switch on the shifter handle.
Posted By: 70Cuda383
Re: Don't use a toggle switch for your line loc? - 02/26/10 01:19 PM
Quote:
You guys are right, it's best to try and follow every single little rule in that thick book of rules, especially if your building from scratch. But like I said, there's a Painless toggle on my dash for my line lock and it is in no way 'stupid' to have it there. I can't power out of the water box unless it's switched off.
What if someone has racing gloves on and doesn't realize they're finger is on their momentary button on their steering wheel or shifter til they hit the brakes at 130? Then are they gonna change the 'rule' to a toggle on the dash?
I just get tired of all the little rules, I still haven't removed my on/off knob on the back of the car to change it to a push/pull that they require now.
wait...the master kill switches have to be push-pull now?! I just put mine on last summer, haven't even been to a real race yet!
Posted By: Ron Silva
Re: Don't use a toggle switch for your line loc? - 02/26/10 01:38 PM
wait...the master kill switches have to be push-pull now?
NO.
Posted By: POZEST
Re: Don't use a toggle switch for your line loc? - 02/26/10 03:02 PM
Ok, time to tell on myself. Last fall at Muncie I accidentally bumped the toggle switch I use for a line lock on the starting line. This was during my 2nd time run and the first time I had ever been to this track. I could have sworn something had come apart in the steering column. It just wouldn't steer and was drifting to the left. I got stopped just short of the 330 timer about a inch from the wall. Had to climb out of the passenger side. Pulled the hood off to figure out why it wouldn't steer and it seemed ok. Jumped in the car for them to get me off the wall and figure out what to do and looked down to see the red toggle switch lit up! I was so embarrassed. Yes, I still use the toggle switch but you can see how things could have gotten real ugly.
Posted By: 77DragracerR/T
Re: Don't use a toggle switch for your line loc? - 02/26/10 03:13 PM
Quote:
Sorry to change the topic. I haven't finished the wiring for my line lock, although the actual solenoid has been integrated into my braking system since 2008. The button supplied w/ the Hurst unit I have looks pretty "budget" and won't attach to my OEM Slap-Stik shifter very easily. Any recommendations (other than a toggle switch ) for a better part to use here?
For the longest time i had my line loc hooked up to my horn relay and just used the horn pad.Keeps the hands on the steering wheel and when you release your thumb from the horn it moves forward.That was good until my horn pad died and i installed a toggle switch with a red light to show it's on.Either one works well.
Posted By: BADDART
Re: Don't use a toggle switch for your line loc? - 02/26/10 07:05 PM
I have a stick car and use a toggle and momentary switch.With toggle switch up(burnout mode)the 2-step is off.With the toggle down(race)the 2-step is on for launch. Next step is to take the momentary sw. off the shifter and put it on the clutch pedal. Chris
Posted By: RemCharger
Re: Don't use a toggle switch for your line loc? - 02/26/10 11:46 PM
Having the line loc on the rear brakes is more of a safety hazard than a seperate toggle switch that has to be off to move forward. And you are more likely to inadvertantly hit it if it is on a momentary switch on the shifter, right where your hand and fingers are.
Posted By: 70Cuda383
Re: Don't use a toggle switch for your line loc? - 02/27/10 01:54 AM
Quote:
Having the line loc on the rear brakes is more of a safety hazard than a seperate toggle switch that has to be off to move forward. And you are more likely to inadvertantly hit it if it is on a momentary switch on the shifter, right where your hand and fingers are.
that's kind of how I feel too. if the car won't move till you turn the lock OFF...then it'll be really hard to forget to turn it off.
that, and a LIGHTED rocker switch will also give you the red light that says "hey dummy, turn me off"
Posted By: Dave Watt
Re: Don't use a toggle switch for your line loc? - 02/27/10 04:18 AM
If I recall correctly, the NHRA says the linelock can only be connected to the front brakes, not the rear.
I tried to download the NHRA rulebook but evidently you have to be a member.
Posted By: Thumperdart
Re: Don't use a toggle switch for your line loc? - 02/27/10 04:26 AM
How in the hell can you do a burnout w/the rear brakes locked out? I would think the only reason to lock out the rears would be for leaving the line kinda like a poor mans trans brake.....am I off base here?
Posted By: dirt
Re: Don't use a toggle switch for your line loc? - 02/27/10 04:30 AM
i had a toggle switch on my cuda line lock. the E brake didnt work so i flipped the line lock on to hold the car , i was only going to let it sit for a few minutes so i could move another car that was in my way to the garage. well i got side tracked and left the cuda sit on the hill, forgot about it. when the battery died the car rolled down the hill and hit a tree. yea i know that was stupid, thats why i dont like a toggle, i'm to brain dead to remember to turn it off sometimes.
Posted By: RemCharger
Re: Don't use a toggle switch for your line loc? - 02/27/10 05:42 AM
Quote:
How in the hell can you do a burnout w/the rear brakes locked out? I would think the only reason to lock out the rears would be for leaving the line kinda like a poor mans trans brake.....am I off base here?
I've used a setup in the rear and it works good. You hit the solenoid, and hammer the brakes (activating the front) and then you have manual control coming out of the box. Then you have to turn it off.
The problem is if the solenoid is on down the track and it locks the rear.... thats the most dangerous situation.
Posted By: torredcuda
Re: Don't use a toggle switch for your line loc? - 02/28/10 12:51 PM
IHRA rulebook-
All line locks must be self-returning upon the release of the switch and return the system to normal operating mode.
