Misc. "roller cam on the street" tech questions

Posted By: BradH

Misc. "roller cam on the street" tech questions - 01/29/10 10:15 PM

Figure these questions would be w/ a "moderate" .650"-ish roller cam.

Are Comp 943 springs durable enough for street use? Not like a "daily driver", but running up say 2000 miles a year on the street/strip.

Have those of you running roller cams seen any real wear and / or quality differences in the various brands of bronze distributor gears? There seems to be a pretty wide range of prices and I'm not sure what you get for the extra $$$.

"Affordable" lifters of choice? Are the Comp 829 solid-body lifters still a good option, or are their other brands NOT costing twice as much that are worth considering? This could be in either an unbushed block OR a block that's been bushed but doesn't have any oil feed holes in the lifter bore bushings.

What's the simplest & most cost-effective method for setting the cam's end play? I see different types of cam buttons offered, but don't know which ones are more likely to have durability issues in this sort of application.

Posted By: Defbob

Re: Misc. "roller cam on the street" tech questions - 01/29/10 10:24 PM

600lb springs, comp lifters should be ok. Crane lifters are no longer around, so Crower lifters are the best lifters under $1000.

I have not had any problems using Milodon bronze gears. I drive 7000+ miles a year and haven't had one go bad, yet

As for a cam button, I have only used gear drives with roller cams on Mopars, but make sure you get a strong cover like Indy, AndyF, etc to handle the button.

I don't know about the springs. someone else will have to help you with that.

Posted By: tboomer

Re: Misc. "roller cam on the street" tech questions - 01/29/10 10:26 PM

Good questions,Brad! I am looking for a roller in the .600 to .625 range...I have heard of good luck with Herbert lifters...Who makes them??

Posted By: 8secDart

Re: Misc. "roller cam on the street" tech questions - 01/29/10 10:33 PM

I use comp 829's in all my street cars.They see maybe 3,500 miles a year.I have a set in my wagon now that has 6,500 miles on them no problems.I have a ton of spring on the car too.Idle time is what kills the springs.

I have seen no difference in the dist gears.All seem to be good.

I have only bushed one block in my life.It was a Hemi that I had a ton of money in.I think it is a waste.I've done maybe 30 that ain't bushed NEVER a problem.

Just use the cheap nylon button.

Posted By: Von

Re: Misc. "roller cam on the street" tech questions - 01/30/10 12:24 AM

FWIW,

When I was trying to decide on springs for my roller, (which I dont know if I'll ever use, due to not having good rockers) I searched around and was told Isky springs seem to last longer than Comps. Dwayne also said he likes Iskys over Comps. I found a set of dyno time only Isky Tool Room springs on the bag. They pressured OK and are on the heads at the moment. Dont know if that really helps you.

Posted By: galen

Re: Misc. "roller cam on the street" tech questions - 01/30/10 12:44 AM

I am running the 943 comp springs and have 600 miles on them so far at .700 lift. Just had my Indy heads machined for spring locators and when we checked the springs all were same as new. K-motion told me direct not to run the K-950s on the street, they will break. I have a set of 9385 Iskys I will try if the comps go down, Isky says they will hold up on the street also. I have 600 miles on Indy bronze dist gear and shaft. It shows slight amount of wear. Galen

Posted By: 602heavy

Re: Misc. "roller cam on the street" tech questions - 01/30/10 01:19 AM

Got 3000 street miles on comp roller lifters , 280lb on the seat with 720lb over the nose , got a fair ammount of leakage through lifter bores (not bushed) but still maintain 25lb oil pressure @ idle , i think these lifters are living due to the fact the lifter bores are'nt bushed..........prime the oil with the valley plate off & it floods the cam/lifters , just my

Posted By: sixpackgut

Re: Misc. "roller cam on the street" tech questions - 01/30/10 01:41 AM

my one suggestion would be, have the springs checked to make sure they are what they say they should be. someone here i know checked comp springs and they were all over the place, called comp and while on the phone they were spitting out numbers all over the place too, he actually asked "are you checking springs with the same part number" so like everything else, check it before you use it

i'm a believer in big pressures too like the others said

Posted By: Thumperdart

Re: Misc. "roller cam on the street" tech questions - 01/30/10 06:57 AM

I`ve been running a solid Isky roller for almost 5 years and changed springs once along w/a bronze gear both just for piece of mind. I`m on the same set of Isky solid body drop in lifters and run their rollerized cam button touching a stock timing cover............a few thousand miles later all seems well and thats w/.680-.660 lift and 275-280 degs. dur @ .050.....mileage sucks but what a blast to drive.

Posted By: 493_DART

Re: Misc. "roller cam on the street" tech questions - 01/30/10 10:06 AM

Quote:

I use comp 829's in all my street cars.They see maybe 3,500 miles a year.I have a set in my wagon now that has 6,500 miles on them no problems.I have a ton of spring on the car too.Idle time is what kills the springs.

I have seen no difference in the dist gears.All seem to be good.

I have only bushed one block in my life.It was a Hemi that I had a ton of money in.I think it is a waste.I've done maybe 30 that ain't bushed NEVER a problem.

Just use the cheap nylon button.

Ive researched the "bushing the block" deal for the last couple months...

99% say not necessary ( CHECK YOUR GEOMETRY) , and that includes a couple big engine places.

and... Thumper has been running that thing for a long time on the street-- theres some honest , real world info there

Posted By: 493_DART

Re: Misc. "roller cam on the street" tech questions - 01/30/10 10:18 AM

and Ted...

you aint gonna catch me in that big OL' Dodge.... better put a roller in her....... or put a .006 light on me......

neither one of us has a transbrake i guess .....you might tree my ass

Posted By: tboomer

Re: Misc. "roller cam on the street" tech questions - 01/30/10 11:39 AM

Quote:

neither one of us has a transbrake i guess .....you might tree my ass

Count on it!!

Posted By: 493_DART

Re: Misc. "roller cam on the street" tech questions - 01/30/10 11:57 AM

Oh....its On now........first round TT , CF,,might need a wager...

Posted By: moparniac

Re: Misc. "roller cam on the street" tech questions - 01/30/10 12:55 PM

I ran a comp XR286R with comp lifters / plain chrome timing cover and unbushed...

Posted By: Streetwize

Re: Misc. "roller cam on the street" tech questions - 01/30/10 03:24 PM

I wouldn't run a roller without a button/bushing

the valvetrain is too expensive to run the risk of chewing something up. Additionally the natural back-n-forth will wear out that bronze dizzy drive a heck of a lot quicker.

Posted By: 440Jim

Re: Misc. "roller cam on the street" tech questions - 01/30/10 03:59 PM

Quote:

.I have a ton of spring on the car too.Idle time is what kills the springs.

How much is a "ton"? 200/600 or 300/800?
How much valve lift are you running?
When you say "idle time", do you mean time the engine runs at idle, or as in sitting idle for 3 months in the garage?

Posted By: ZIPPY

Re: Misc. "roller cam on the street" tech questions - 01/30/10 04:07 PM

Quote:

Are Comp 943 springs durable enough for street use? Not like a "daily driver", but running up say 2000 miles a year on the street/strip.

Never used them. K-1100 springs seem to hold up pretty well fwiw.

Quote:

Have those of you running roller cams seen any real wear and / or quality differences in the various brands of bronze distributor gears? There seems to be a pretty wide range of prices and I'm not sure what you get for the extra $$$.

I've only used the MP gear, and am on my second one since circa 2002.

Quote:

"Affordable" lifters of choice? Are the Comp 829 solid-body lifters still a good option, or are their other brands NOT costing twice as much that are worth considering? This could be in either an unbushed block OR a block that's been bushed but doesn't have any oil feed holes in the lifter bore bushings.

If you want to spend less than $1000 on lifters, choices are pretty limited. Nothing wrong with 829s or the discontinued Cranes. I've had my 829s rebuilt one time since circa 2002 fwiw. Some here have had good luck with Herbert stuff, never tried it. I have an extra brand new set of Cranes if you want to try them.

Quote:

What's the simplest & most cost-effective method for setting the cam's end play? I see different types of cam buttons offered, but don't know which ones are more likely to have durability issues in this sort of application.

With a stock timing cover....weld a piece of plate steel (or even a big washer) to it in front of the cam , and set it up (grind it to the proper thickness) so that it interferes with the back of the water pump, and there's your cam stop. The nylon cam button has the best chance of not putting any extra metal in the oil. I have the Diamond/Mancini button in mine, and it did wear a bit into the timing cover over the first couple years because the cover didn't squarely hit the button. Good thing I keep clean oil in it....lesson learned..next time I'm using nylon.

Posted By: RobR

Re: Misc. "roller cam on the street" tech questions - 01/30/10 04:25 PM

Holy Cow...3500 miles 6000 miles...!!!

That's an awful lot of STREET miles..!! my guys have the springs out of there cars in a 1000 miles.But they REALLY use every bit of rpm there cams make and all the time too.
You guys driving on the hi way with all these miles racked up.
I put spray bars in any engine that I build that is going to see 3000 rpm for sustained periods.
Every set of comp roller lifters I've seen have been DEAD after 2 summers of street use with 275/600..Dirty oil with a bit of valve float I'm sure had plenty to do with it.
The oil in these 700 hp roller street engines is pretty much used up around 250 miles around here.
How hard are you guys driving these engines...
My guys stuff sees their red line 30-40 times a night when they drive them.
I don't think in all the time I've been building these roller engines have I EVER seen a set of rings go 6000 miles up here let alone a set of valve springs last that long

Posted By: Brian Hafliger

Re: Misc. "roller cam on the street" tech questions - 01/30/10 07:15 PM

Quote:

Holy Cow...3500 miles 6000 miles...!!! That's an awful lot of STREET miles..!! my guys have the springs out of there cars in a 1000 miles.But they REALLY use every bit of rpm there cams make and all the time too.
You guys driving on the hi way with all these miles racked up.
I put spray bars in any engine that I build that is going to see 3000 rpm for sustained periods.
Every set of comp roller lifters I've seen have been DEAD after 2 summers of street use with 275/600..Dirty oil with a bit of valve float I'm sure had plenty to do with it.
The oil in these 700 hp roller street engines is pretty much used up around 250 miles around here.
How hard are you guys driving these engines...
My guys stuff sees their red line 30-40 times a night when they drive them.
I don't think in all the time I've been building these roller engines have I EVER seen a set of rings go 6000 miles up here let alone a set of valve springs last that long

The newer versions will last 3 times as long as the old versions!

Posted By: 8secDart

Re: Misc. "roller cam on the street" tech questions - 01/30/10 09:55 PM

Quote:

Quote:

.I have a ton of spring on the car too.Idle time is what kills the springs.

How much is a "ton"? 200/600 or 300/800?
How much valve lift are you running?
When you say "idle time", do you mean time the engine runs at idle, or as in sitting idle for 3 months in the garage?

Like 250/700.Lift is in the 650 + 1.6 rockers.I mean idle time at a stop light with the oil hot as hell and idle at 1,000 RPMs.Kills the springs.

Posted By: hemi-itis

Re: Misc. "roller cam on the street" tech questions - 01/30/10 10:07 PM

I have about 10k on my comp 848 lifters and send oil through the exhaust pushrods.919 comp springs 225/550 sp.I was eating the 829's up with k1000 springs in under 1000 miles

.10k in 3 years of street beatin and many trips to the track,I am pleased

.The reduced lobe aggression on this cam with the reduced spring pressure seems to have been the tcket for me

.I will pull the hemi out within the next few weeks for PM and CSI investigation.I am looking foward to see how everything has held up.

Posted By: 440Jim

Re: Misc. "roller cam on the street" tech questions - 01/30/10 10:19 PM

Quote:

I mean idle time at a stop light with the oil hot as hell and idle at 1,000 RPMs.Kills the springs.

I see, hot springs from driving around, and hot oil; then run at idle when very little oil gets on the springs to cool them.

Posted By: hemi-itis

Re: Misc. "roller cam on the street" tech questions - 01/30/10 10:56 PM

This is why it is a good idea to use lifters with EDM and send oil up the pushrods.Lots of oil to the needle bearings at idle,oil to the adjusters to prevent galling,and a little extra oil spraying on the springs.I lost 15 lbs of oil pressure hot at idle but is well worth it IMOP

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Posted By: sshemi

Re: Misc. "roller cam on the street" tech questions - 01/30/10 10:59 PM

Not to highjack but should you stay away from k-motion valvesprings?

Posted By: hemi-itis

Re: Misc. "roller cam on the street" tech questions - 01/30/10 11:23 PM

Quote:

Not to highjack but should you stay away from k-motion valvesprings?

I was using the K1000 for years.When I changed the combo,I went with the complete COMP set up so they could not put blame on the non-comp part if there were to be a problem.Ther has not been a problem

I will be sending these comp 848 lifters back to be rebuilt just for preventitive maintainance.Will also go through the valves and check spring pressures.

Posted By: Teamx

Re: Misc. "roller cam on the street" tech questions - 01/31/10 04:48 AM

Hemi-itis, You seem to have had sucsess using the AMC lifters in your Hemi, I like the idea of pushrod and axle oiling in a street motor. However many posters on this site say you cant use these lifters without bushing the block, Having used them do you see anywhere you could run into problems with this type of lifter/

Posted By: 572charger

Re: Misc. "roller cam on the street" tech questions - 01/31/10 01:26 PM

my 606 hemi has been runnin since 2003 has 6500-7000 street miles and 200+ passes ive been runnin comp roller lifters / comp 943 valve springs with no problems what so ever !!! .720 intake and .690 ex lift!! ive got raybarton t-d rockers that have spray bars built in !! i replaced the valve springs and lifters in 2007 before the pumpgas drags , checked the springs they were dead on so iput them in a 650 lift roller cammed GTO been runnin ever since !! one thing i do driving the car is don't let it ldle below 1000 rpm for a long time like in 2 miles of woodward traffic !

yeah by the way lifters are going back in to another car they are perfect ,

Posted By: hemi-itis

Re: Misc. "roller cam on the street" tech questions - 01/31/10 02:13 PM

Quote:

Hemi-itis, You seem to have had sucsess using the AMC lifters in your Hemi, I like the idea of pushrod and axle oiling in a street motor. However many posters on this site say you cant use these lifters without bushing the block, Having used them do you see anywhere you could run into problems with this type of lifter/

.I was thrilled with the way oil came up the pushrod sending extra oil the the exhaust valve

.So,I put it together and ran it.Had 80 lbs cold on fire up,after hot 25/35 idle,75 lbs @7500 rpm.I have the MP roller rockers which have not needed any real adjustment in 3 years and 10k mikes.I wish I had the Barton system and spray bars but,,,,,,,,,,,not in the budget.But I do not worry about idle time,sometimes takes 20 minutes on a friday night to get mt spot in the cruise parking lot. One thing I must say,when your pullin' outta the lot and whack the throttle and just blow the tires away

that is the hardest on the roller lifter and rocker.The roller bounces of the cam sorta in a "FLOAT" and reaks havock on the valve train.CONTROL YOURSELVES!!!

Posted By: VanishPt

Re: Misc. "roller cam on the street" tech questions - 01/31/10 02:18 PM

511 hemi with a Cammotion 247/252 roller. Comp 929 springs set at 160/420. I put about 21000 miles on this . I changed the springs once and the Crower Rollers once.
The Bronze gear is in such good shape , that i am reusing it on the upgrade i am in process of putting together.

I sent the Crower Rollers back for a rebuild ( with about 11K miles on them) and Crower said they were nearly perfect. I had them rebuild anyway for about $190.
I used Indy rockers on the setup ( for sale BTW) .

New setup will use Stage V rockers , 254/262 roller with Comp 943 springs set at 250/587- and the same bronze gear

Posted By: BradH

Re: Misc. "roller cam on the street" tech questions - 01/31/10 10:07 PM

Thanks for everyone's input.