Moparts
Pro Shifting and Faceplating
Posted By: knyech1
Pro Shifting and Faceplating - 01/26/10 10:36 PM
I know this stuff is out there on this website but I couldn't get any search results. I was wondering what exactly is "pro shifting" and "faceplating"? I put quotes because I know they are two different things. Is pro shifting another term for slick shifting where every other tooth on the gears are cut off so it can be slammed into gear without the clutch? And faceplating, is that just a hardening process? And where to send/how much does it cost/what kind of abuse can the resulting product have?
Posted By: Hemi_Joel
Re: Pro Shifting and Faceplating - 01/26/10 10:54 PM
Pro shifting involves replacing the engagment teeth with larger, stronger teeth that are spaced farther apart called "lugs". The brass, the dogs, and the springs are removed from the slider and 2 out of every 3 splines is removed from it.
Posted By: knyech1
Re: Pro Shifting and Faceplating - 01/26/10 11:16 PM
So what benefit is there from pro shifting? Was I correct in the clutchless shifting from 1-2? And faceplating 3-4 what does that do?
Posted By: Hemi_Joel
Re: Pro Shifting and Faceplating - 01/26/10 11:30 PM
With a pro shifted trans, the sliders have that wide gap for the lugs to fit into. SO you can slam the gears hard and fast at wide open throttle without missing a shift. You still should use the clutch, but just barely tap it to unload the gears.
Like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uu94rcdWFyM
Posted By: rowin4
Re: Pro Shifting and Faceplating - 01/27/10 01:27 AM
You still have to use the clutch or you'll round off the lugs and the slider. Contact Liberty Gears
www.libertygears.com for more info. You also need to use the clutch for face plated gears. You can buy a trans that you do not have to use a clutch for about $8000.
Posted By: fourgearsavoy
Re: Pro Shifting and Faceplating - 01/27/10 02:18 AM
Here is the Liberty Face-plate in my Richmond box.
Gus
Posted By: KillerBee
Re: Pro Shifting and Faceplating - 01/27/10 02:28 AM
I've heard about Liberty's Pro Shifting setup for years, Faceplating is something I've only heard about in the last few years.
What setup is best for a street/strip 18 spline 4 speed for longevity and should it be done to all 4 gears?
Posted By: fourgearsavoy
Re: Pro Shifting and Faceplating - 01/27/10 02:34 AM
I would Pro-shift second then Faceplate third and fourth.Second gear Pro-Rings seem to outlast 3-4 a few seasons longer.
Gus
Posted By: KillerBee
Re: Pro Shifting and Faceplating - 01/27/10 03:02 AM
Quote:
I would Pro-shift second then Faceplate third and fourth.Second gear Pro-Rings seem to outlast 3-4 a few seasons longer.
Gus
Thanks 
Any idea what having that done to my 18 spline 4 speed would cost?
Posted By: fourgearsavoy
Re: Pro Shifting and Faceplating - 01/27/10 04:10 AM
I think its about $75.00 per gear to add a ring and they will need your side cover to modify the shift selector as well.Last time I talked Paul at Liberty it seemed like a pretty easy mod to the side cover and I'm pretty sure the 3-4 slider is $50.00.They can Pro-shift your existing 1-2 slider or you can get a new one from them,not sure on the price of that I never had to buy one from them.
If you need the work done send me a PM.I can set it up for you
Gus
Posted By: KillerBee
Re: Pro Shifting and Faceplating - 01/27/10 04:29 AM
Quote:
I think its about $75.00 per gear to add a ring and they will need your side cover to modify the shift selector as well.Last time I talked Paul at Liberty it seemed like a pretty easy mod to the side cover and I'm pretty sure the 3-4 slider is $50.00.They can Pro-shift your existing 1-2 slider or you can get a new one from them,not sure on the price of that I never had to buy one from them.
If you need the work done send me a PM.I can set it up for you
Gus
Thanks gus.
I'm over in Massillon.
The tranny is currently in a running/driving car but I plan to remove the engine/tranny this spring so I'm strongly thinking of getting this done. 
Posted By: DemonDust
Re: Pro Shifting and Faceplating - 01/27/10 01:05 PM
When I talked them the other day, they said they were working on having a faceplated 2nd in a few months. So if you wait til then you will be able to get 2nd faceplated as well, instead of getting it proshifted.
They quoted me around $400 for everything.
Posted By: 5126brl No more
Re: Pro Shifting and Faceplating - 01/27/10 01:34 PM
Quote:
When I talked them the other day, they said they were working on having a faceplated 2nd in a few months. So if you wait til then you will be able to get 2nd faceplated as well, instead of getting it proshifted.
They quoted me around $400 for everything.
I heard that 2 years ago then last year! Just pro shift second and faceplate 3-4. I do not use second on the street. The faceplating is awesome!
Posted By: RTshaker
Re: Pro Shifting and Faceplating - 01/27/10 02:36 PM
Prices I got from them for face plating were $80 per gear ,$100 for 3-4 slider $39 for new 3-4 modified syle fork . I was not aware about them requiring the side cover may be this new fork gets around that ?? As others have said they are still woking on the 2 gear but was told ,they were intending to be able to use your existing 1-2 steel fork . The 1-2 slider would be the same on both ends therefore I guess 1 gear would need the faceplate mod as well {unsure of this } .
Posted By: LAR_414
Re: Pro Shifting and Faceplating - 01/27/10 02:53 PM
I have only powershifted stock style A-833 transmissions and some other stock transmissions too. In a sub 600hp, sub 9 second car, is there really much to be gained from pro shifting or face plating? You still have to drive it the same way as powershifting a regular brass syncro trans, correct? It's either in the gear or not. And if you hit the gears 95% of the time with a stock A-833, will you hit it more with the Pro shift or face plate style? Is it any stronger?
I love being able to drive my trans 100% normally on the street and be able to powershift it at the track with no issues. I'm just trying to see the benefit in Pro Shifting or faceplating, if you now can't drive it that easily on the street. What is the performance gain?
Educate me.
Posted By: gsmopar
Re: Pro Shifting and Faceplating - 01/27/10 03:27 PM
Posted By: 68LAR
Re: Pro Shifting and Faceplating - 01/27/10 04:05 PM
Quote:
What about "dog boxes?"
Impressive video. I wonder how the transmission would shift behind a high torque/ higher rpm engine? Also, I wonder how long it would last? In the video he is not shifting a transmission behind an 11 second or faster car. It does look like a nice unit for the street that I would like to try. Track testing still needs done. 
Posted By: gsmopar
Re: Pro Shifting and Faceplating - 01/28/10 03:26 AM
There is lots of videos on Youtube, several from companies pushing their product. One even states that it has over 20k km on it's shop car (turbo import thingey). ehhh.... I don't know, just thought it was pretty cool.
Now if it did work: I'd use a hydraulic clutch with a line lock on both the clutch and front brakes. Stage the car, flip a switch, mash the gas and launch on a button!
Posted By: MrFoFody
Re: Pro Shifting and Faceplating - 01/28/10 08:51 AM
Quote:
What about "dog boxes?"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OI2fGeL7DEE
Looks interesting ..........
Posted By: scatpacktom
Re: Pro Shifting and Faceplating - 01/28/10 12:56 PM
Very intresting
Posted By: LAR_414
Re: Pro Shifting and Faceplating - 01/28/10 01:50 PM
It's been almost 24 hrs and nobody has chimed in on my question. So what is the benefit to ProShifting / Faceplating over a normal stock brass synchro trans? If you have(should) use the clutch between shifts for all 3 transmissions, where is the benefit?
Posted By: DemonDust
Re: Pro Shifting and Faceplating - 01/28/10 02:23 PM
Thanks to Cass (DR Diff) I got a nice set of liberty pro shift gears. My question now is what do you guys run for oil in your proshifted 833's? I have always run ATF in my 833's. Just wondering if I should run gear lube now for some added cushion?
Posted By: 68 HEMI GTS
Re: Pro Shifting and Faceplating - 01/28/10 05:23 PM
Quote:
It's been almost 24 hrs and nobody has chimed in on my question. So what is the benefit to ProShifting / Faceplating over a normal stock brass synchro trans? If you have(should) use the clutch between shifts for all 3 transmissions, where is the benefit?
you can shift them a little faster and way easier over a stock sync trans. the problem with the proshift nubs is they get beat up on the street, i have no experiance with face plating but its suppose to hold up better on the street and downshift a little easier. i'm going to faceplate my box for next year. i can shift a stock box good but its unreal how fast the modified ones work
Posted By: RTshaker
Re: Pro Shifting and Faceplating - 01/28/10 07:17 PM
Liberty recommends 90 wt...they should know.
Posted By: LAR_414
Re: Pro Shifting and Faceplating - 01/28/10 07:24 PM
Interesting,...makes my mind up about my situation. For as much street driving as I'm doing,....stock is perfect. If the trans isn't any stronger, and the shifting may be a micro-second quicker, then it's not really for me. For an all out race vehicle, it's a good idea, but for a street car, probably not.
I wonder if anybody has done a true back to back test at the track. Maybe (due to slightly quicker shifting) the pro shift / faceplated trans results in a few hundreths at the track in ET.
I've seen some pretty good stick drivers shift their cars quick with stock internals. Pretty much sound like an automatic trans going down the track. I can't see any of them picking up any ET at all with a Pro Shift / Faceplate style.
Posted By: oldiron
Re: Pro Shifting and Faceplating - 01/28/10 09:01 PM
I think there are 2 issues. The difference between proshift and stock is more than microseconds, it is a much quicker shift. But since most of us are bracket racing (when racing), the time difference is not important. The second issue is missing a gear. You are far more likely to miss a shift on a stock trans. With a proshifted trans, it feels like it just wants to go in. Reliability goes way up. Either way its fun though.
Posted By: DemonDust
Re: Pro Shifting and Faceplating - 01/28/10 10:41 PM
FWIW, my 833 stock will not shift above 8000. I'm told with the pro shift it will shift no problem at high rpms where the stock 833 will not.
I'll find out for sure this weeekend
Posted By: 68hemiss
Re: Pro Shifting and Faceplating - 01/28/10 10:52 PM
I have just picked up a proshifted A-833. I plan to drive the car on the street somewhat. Is the faceplating a process that is done to the stock gears or to the pro-shifted gears or is this a new gear? I had a friend tell me that he left the 1-2 syncros in and just used the 3-4 proshited gears on the street.
Posted By: fourgearsavoy
Re: Pro Shifting and Faceplating - 01/29/10 12:54 AM
The last 833 I ran had Pro-rings 3-4 and slicked 1-2 and I had no issues on the track.The reason Face-plating is better than Pro-shifted gears is they last longer.The engagement teeth grind less because they have a larger window to go into.The dog-ring sliders hold onto each other when engaged instead of sliding over each other like OEM style sliders.I have split 3-4 sliders before in my Pro-shift box before and I do believe the face-plate is stronger because there is no chance of the splitting issue any more
Gus
Posted By: knyech1
Re: Pro Shifting and Faceplating - 02/09/10 04:44 AM
BUMP!!!
Ok one last question. If I were to, say, faceplate 3 and 4 but leave 1 and 2 as is, would I have to shift HARD into 3rd and 4th or would I be able to take it easy without damaging them??