head swap to B1 BS HP gain?

Posted By: montessa

Re: head swap to B1 BS HP gain? - 01/09/10 03:32 AM

Dwayne did my B1/BS heads a number of years ago. They ended up flowing around 320 cfm at stock port window size. Motor was a 528 with an M-1 tunnel Ram that made 750Hp and 720 torque. It ran 9.70's at 3900lbs. I felt that that was pretty decent.

Posted By: blownzoom440

Re: head swap to B1 BS HP gain? - 01/09/10 03:43 AM

what was your MPH?
who did the dyno?
that is a good running combo!

Posted By: Von

Re: head swap to B1 BS HP gain? - 01/09/10 05:11 AM

[quoteand said it would flow that.i think the cnc flows more than 350cfm no?

i w2ish the low flow was better.it would help me more i think.[446 cubes,.646 lift roller,6500/6800rpm]
this info some1 else posted.

I'll put it this way, with only bowl work, they wouldnt flow 330 on Dwaynes bench, Id bet the house on that!!!

Honestly I was surprised they got 350 out of a CNC ported BS. I dont think they will go much more than that. Yeah, I know somebodys cousin had a set that flowed 3XX, see the last paragraph below.

I'll also add that Dwayne did another set of BS heads a week or so before he did mine. They were MW size and didnt flow more than mine at standard port window. Im wanting to say the flow was within 2-3 cfm, honestly I think it was closer than that. I know somebody will tell you the MW version will be the cats meow, but Dwayne was positive that unless you need the bigger intake, its not worth it to go MW on these heads.

Further, I had the heads flowed on a local bench. They flowed almost 340 at .700. I didnt pay much attention to that number, since so many heads on here have come from Dwayne, been flowed on his bench, we know what they run, etc.

Posted By: 451Mopar

Re: head swap to B1 BS HP gain? - 01/09/10 07:54 AM

From Chrysler Power, January 1995 - Dan Davorak flowed Stock Port "B-1 B/S" Wedge head.
Note: I believe these were flowed at 10" and converted to 28" numbers:

0.100" = 67.74
0.200" = 131.96
0.300" = 183.78
0.400" = 225.53
0.500" = 262.92
0.600" = 278.92
0.700" = 283.72

From Performance for the Chrysler car Enthusiast, Sep/Oct 1993 - Performance Engineering flowed Ported "B-1 B/S" Wedge.
Article says this was a mild porting job?

0.200" = 151.0
0.300" = 209.0
0.400" = 257.5
0.500" = 297.9
0.600" = 315.8
0.650" = 319.0

from ET heads.com, cnc ported (I think max wedge port size.)

Valve Lift Intake Exhaust Valve Lift
.100" 75.8 59.1 .100"
.200" 149.6 108.2 .200"
.300" 217.8 144.8 .300"
.400" 272.6 173.2 .400"
.500" 313.6 198 .500"
.550" 330.6 209.2 .550"
.600" 342.8 219.3 .600"
.650" 350.6 229.5 .650"
.700" 355 238.2 .700"
.750" 354 246.1 .750"
.800" 353.5 253 .800"
.850" 354 260.2 .850"
.900" 352.8 264.7 .900"

Exhaust to Intake Flow Ratio 66%

The heads have nice small closed chamber design 65cc, and sparkplugs moved closer to center of chamber. zero deck Flat top pistons in a 451 makes about 13:1 compression ratio.

My 451 used dished pistons to get 11:1 cr, and I only needed about 32-33 total ignition timing.

Posted By: blownzoom440

Re: head swap to B1 BS HP gain? - 01/09/10 11:55 AM

great info!Thanks!

Posted By: pittsburghracer

Re: head swap to B1 BS HP gain? - 01/09/10 02:41 PM

Tom Hemphill has produced excellent numbers with B1-BS heads. My friends 68 charger (2800-2900 pounds)has gone as fast as 8.60's with 500 inch engine. These heads have to be opened up to max wedge size to make good numbers. I wish I could post some pictures of his car but the cars name is Tims Toy.

Posted By: supercomp

Re: head swap to B1 BS HP gain? - 01/09/10 02:47 PM

Posted By: B1MAXX

Re: head swap to B1 BS HP gain? - 01/09/10 03:47 PM

I have the ET heads on a 512 ci. They have a couple of programs for those heads. At the time I got them I was 464 ci and they talked me into a standard port window. The 464 in my 3400lb with driver 71 dart went 10.0's. Ive since then built the 512 all the same stuff heads, cam, headers gears, ect. Best so far 9.88 @ 136. I sure wish I had max wedge runner now though

Posted By: roadhazard

Re: head swap to B1 BS HP gain? - 01/09/10 03:53 PM

MetalStorm
I can't say what was gained because you know I have Factory Iron

However I found this link in a post today. Hope it helps.

http://users.erols.com/srweiss/tablehdc.htm#Chrysler_Big_Block

By the way the B1-BS will be my next set of heads

EDITED: forgot to put in the link

Posted By: HardcoreB

Re: head swap to B1 BS HP gain? - 01/09/10 04:18 PM

Quote:

ported or just cleanedup what did you gain in HP,ET or MPH.you can list your combo if you like but i am just lookinfg for results.
Thanks for any info.

As stated already the chambers are small. Can I assume that you will have to open the chambers to acheive your desired C/R? Off the top of my head the chambers have a good amount of "unnecessary" material. Which will cater to your advantage for flow increase. I want to say you can acheive 76+cc in an unmilled head while only sacrificing C/R.$$$

Posted By: HardcoreB

Re: head swap to B1 BS HP gain? - 01/09/10 04:38 PM

Also IMO there is no magic/phenomenon about these heads. That would make them unique in performance than any other head. It is well documented the rockers are no better than the Indys. And the sparkplug placement is not a 'good' thing because, they are not angled.$$$ Oil accumulates in the valvetrain area and makes a huge mess when removing the valvecovers unless the heads get modified. Valves and guides are unique and that makes them expensive.$$$ Unless they have evolved since these issues I don't consider them a practicle choice considering the other heads available. But I'd guess you've already made your choice. I am just stating facts you may not yet realise.

Posted By: Von

Re: head swap to B1 BS HP gain? - 01/09/10 04:57 PM

[quoteI want to say you can acheive 76+cc in an unmilled head while only sacrificing C/R.$$$

My heads were opened up to 69.7 before milling.

Posted By: Von

Re: head swap to B1 BS HP gain? - 01/09/10 05:03 PM

Quote:

Also IMO there is no magic/phenomenon about these heads.

X2. Very true, they are what they are. Nothing wrong with them, but nothing spectacular either.

I bought my heads 9 years ago, got both of them, with studs, rockers, etc NIB for 900 or so....and they still have only 45 mins or so run time on them.

No fault of the heads though.

If I was in the market for a set, they would be at the bottom of my list, right above standard Stage VIs. Biggest drawback to me is the exhaust port height. To me you have a "street" head with a raised exhaust port. Header fitment with a RB is a frickin mess. A CNC'ed Eddy will flow almost as much, without the header fitment issues.

Posted By: Von

Re: head swap to B1 BS HP gain? - 01/09/10 05:04 PM

Quote:

These heads have to be opened up to max wedge size to make good numbers.

Any flow numbers to back that statement up?

Posted By: ProSport

Re: head swap to B1 BS HP gain? - 01/09/10 05:09 PM

Quote:

Oil accumulates in the valvetrain area and makes a huge mess when removing the valvecovers unless the heads get modified.

My 440-1 heads do this but I just jack up the back of the car to level the engine before removing the valve covers, unless the B1BS heads are pooling oil right along the VC rail.

Posted By: HardcoreB

Re: head swap to B1 BS HP gain? - 01/09/10 05:46 PM

Quote:

unless the B1BS heads are pooling oil right along the VC rail.

Yessir, that is the problem area...nothing a bridgeport operater or amature machinist cannot fix. The drainback pathways are cast too horizontal. Especially between the valvecover rail and the spring pockets. Or you could roll the car side-2-side, then raise the front end before you remove the valvecovers.

Posted By: BobR

Re: head swap to B1 BS HP gain? - 01/09/10 06:33 PM

Quote:

I did a swap from a set ported 906 heads with 2.14 and 1.81 valves to a set of CNC ported Eddy RPMs and gained 2/10 and 4 MPH I beleive the stock out of the box B1-BS are better than the stock Eddy RPM as far as flow, my stock OOTB Eddy RPMs outflowed the ported big valve 906 heads

On a 452 motor I went from a fully ported 906 to an OOTB(port matching only) BS head and went from mid 10's/128 to a best of 9.76/136. The small CC of the BS head upped my CR significantly(probably 2 full points) besides the better flow of the head itself. I also went from 1.5 to 1.6 rockers on the change.

Posted By: hemi-itis

Re: head swap to B1 BS HP gain? - 01/09/10 07:56 PM

Mike,Scott will bowl & port match them

.Then just turn up the boost

This conversation about n/a is not quite applicable

Posted By: montessa

Re: head swap to B1 BS HP gain? - 01/09/10 08:17 PM

Metalman, Dwayne Porter ran the dyno test as well porting the heads. The fastest Mph the car ran was 136. I had also talked with Dwayne about going to max wedge port window but, as was previously stated, the effort is not worth the gain. I was happy with the B1/BS heads over my old ported 906's however, they are limited to how much you can get out of them. I had the same issues with oil all over the place when removing the valve covers, a real pleasure when adjusting valves! Also, what a treat changing spark plugs. The easiest way I found was to plan on dropping the headers every time!

Posted By: HardcoreB

Re: head swap to B1 BS HP gain? - 01/09/10 08:52 PM

Quote:

I had the same issues with oil all over the place when removing the valve covers, a real pleasure when adjusting valves! Also, what a treat changing spark plugs. The easiest way I found was to plan on dropping the headers every time!

Or just whip-up a custom set of headers.

Also, I ground a channel around the valvecover rail AND added a small drain port intersecting the botton of edge of the valvespring seat. The fitting can be seen in the pic just below the valvecover hold-down stud.

Posted By: B1Fish540

Re: head swap to B1 BS HP gain? - 01/09/10 10:23 PM

I would very carefully remove the cover. the oil would be pooled in the back of the head right up to the lip. i would then slowly sop up the oil with a clean rag. i had minimal spillige doing it this way. TTI has headers now so you wont have to drop them to change plugs anymore like i used to do, too.

Posted By: blownzoom440

Re: head swap to B1 BS HP gain? - 01/09/10 11:08 PM

again,great info givin here!
some1 is loaning me a plastic block to dummy up the heads in the car with the hooker supercomp 2" headers in a 69 staellite,man steering.some1 said thay had no trouble but i know each case has its own issues.i can move the engine a little with the ears on the engine.i wont get the MW port as i can make good use of the std port with boost.i dont change plugs very often once the carbs are dialed in.

Posted By: street_dart

Re: head swap to B1 BS HP gain? - 01/09/10 11:25 PM

B1 BS ported to MW. indy intake. 500" 4.375" low deck. 13.7comp. 725/715" 276/286@050 rollercam

766Lbs@5100rpm
841Hp@6400Rpm

eddy rpm ported standard port. team g. 500" low deck. 11.4comp. 590mopar cam.

649Hp@5900Rpm

Same 1050 (9375)holley and same low deck.

Posted By: blownzoom440

Re: head swap to B1 BS HP gain? - 01/09/10 11:45 PM

Quote:

Quote:

ported or just cleanedup what did you gain in HP,ET or MPH.you can list your combo if you like but i am just lookinfg for results.
Thanks for any info.

As stated already the chambers are small. Can I assume that you will have to open the chambers to acheive your desired C/R? Off the top of my head the chambers have a good amount of "unnecessary" material. Which will cater to your advantage for flow increase. I want to say you can acheive 76+cc in an unmilled head while only sacrificing C/R.$$$

scott said today thay can be opened to 80cc and i was very worried about the cr as i did not want to change pistons.the block needs decked yet but the pistons should be .040 in the hole with 2.060 ch piston,3.75 stroke.6.76 rod,.043 gasket,80cc heads.4.350 bore.just over 9/1cr i think.let me go do the math.

Posted By: 451Mopar

Re: head swap to B1 BS HP gain? - 01/10/10 07:21 AM

When I bought my B1 B/S heads back in the early 1990's there was not many choices for aluminum heads. There was the Indy 440-1, the Mopar Stage VI, original B1, B1 B/S, and Stage V hemi conversion head. Indy came out with the S/R several years later after they filled the ports of a 440-1 for some engine shootout in either CarCraft or HotRod?
Several years after that Edelbrock produced the performer head.

I ordered my heads from Koffels with their stage 1 porting, rocker arms, pushrods, and sparkplugs. With shipping I think it was right at $3,000.

A few years ago, I broke the intake valve head off the #4 cylinder. This may have been my fault as I neglected to change the valve springs. Anyhow, I was going to send the heads out for repair and do the max wedge cnc porting, but I decided to try out the new Edelbrock Victor heads.
I know this is not the for sale section, but if anyone is interested in my old B1 B/S heads for $1,000 PM me.

Posted By: blownzoom440

Re: head swap to B1 BS HP gain? - 01/10/10 04:51 PM

when i get the heads i will measure the angle and offset on the headers and match them to my 346 heads.get some side by side pics.

Posted By: supercomp

Re: head swap to B1 BS HP gain? - 01/10/10 06:55 PM

Quote:

B1 BS ported to MW. indy intake. 500" 4.375" low deck. 13.7comp. 725/715" 276/286@050 rollercam

[Email]766Lbs@5100rpm[/Email]
[Email]841Hp@6400Rpm[/Email]

eddy rpm ported standard port. team g. 500" low deck. 11.4comp. 590mopar cam.

[Email]649Hp@5900Rpm[/Email]

Same 1050 (9375)holley and same low deck.

Did you get those from Tom (RT540)?

Posted By: street_dart

Re: head swap to B1 BS HP gain? - 01/10/10 07:27 PM

Yes I bought them from Tom (RT540).
I mill them .040" to get 13.7 comp with my flat topp pistons @ the deck and .039 gaskets.
The heads are ported by the swedish legend Grottis in the -90�s.

Nice heads works great!

Posted By: HardcoreB

Re: head swap to B1 BS HP gain? - 01/10/10 07:53 PM

Quote:

A few years ago, I broke the intake valve head off the #4 cylinder. This may have been my fault as I neglected to change the valve springs.

I just rebuilt a pair with new 'take-off's' early 90's era valves, rockers, springs, locks and retainers. I'll have to look at actual values but the springs were RUINED after a SHORT season of use. We had 2 track visits and only a few street cruises. I set them up .050" from coil-bind based on measured net lift...Used the Comp 308/.625/108 and Standard BS rockers. Seat pressure dropped from like 230 to 180. I couldn't beleive it.

There recycled scrap by now.LOL

Posted By: blownzoom440

Re: head swap to B1 BS HP gain? - 01/10/10 08:22 PM

i have harland sharp that will work but i need to change the intake rocker to the correct offset and HS sells those.sorry you had problems with the springs,valves...

Posted By: supercomp

Re: head swap to B1 BS HP gain? - 01/10/10 08:39 PM

Quote:

Quote:

A few years ago, I broke the intake valve head off the #4 cylinder. This may have been my fault as I neglected to change the valve springs.

I just rebuilt a pair with new 'take-off's' early 90's era valves, rockers, springs, locks and retainers. I'll have to look at actual values but the springs were RUINED after a SHORT season of use. We had 2 track visits and only a few street cruises. I set them up .050" from coil-bind based on measured net lift...Used the Comp 308/.625/108 and Standard BS rockers. Seat pressure dropped from like 230 to 180. I couldn't beleive it. There recycled scrap by now.LOL

I replaced them and the valves (made in England) on the advice of one of the famous hemi ss/ah engine builders with comp springs and farrea valves. Also replaced the rockers with t&d's after breaking two the first year.

Posted By: HardcoreB

Re: head swap to B1 BS HP gain? - 01/10/10 09:35 PM

Quote:

i have harland sharp that will work but i need to change the intake rocker to the correct offset and HS sells those.sorry you had problems with the springs,valves...

I don't believe the valves used are 'bad' or not capable but, I would not reuse any valves that were subject to those conditions, severe floating resulting in the breaking of one. The set I replaced had severely worn stems and showed signs of floating on the seats. I replied because he said he'd believed the cause was worn valvesprings and I was just stating the well-documented facts of my experience.

Posted By: blownzoom440

Re: head swap to B1 BS HP gain? - 01/10/10 09:52 PM

Posted By: gregsdart

Re: head swap to B1 BS HP gain? - 01/10/10 09:55 PM

I am far from an expert on blowers, but have some basic understanding of them, having messed with one a bit.
If you put a head on that flows ten percent better, and show a large drop in boost, bring the boost back up to 12 lb and the differance should be roughly the same increase in total pressure brought back into the picture.
12 psi boost, plus atmospheric pressure would be 26.7 absolute psi. If you loose 2.67 psi on the head change, then increase the boost back to 12 psi, it might show a 100 hp increase. There are a lot of variables
i don't know about on this type of blower, so take it as a WAG.

Posted By: blownzoom440

Re: head swap to B1 BS HP gain? - 01/10/10 10:01 PM

Quote:

I am far from an expert on blowers, but have some basic understanding of them, having messed with one a bit.
If you put a head on that flows ten percent better, and show a large drop in boost, bring the boost back up to 12 lb and the differance should be roughly the same increase in total pressure brought back into the picture.
12 psi boost, plus atmospheric pressure would be 26.7 absolute psi. If you loose 2.67 psi on the head change, then increase the boost back to 12 psi, it might show a 100 hp increase. There are a lot of variables
i don't know about on this type of blower, so take it as a WAG.

i agree.i am upgrading the heads to gain HP, reduce heat/restriction plus my 346 iron heads are at there limit for putting $$ into.

Posted By: blownzoom440

Re: head swap to B1 BS HP gain? - 01/10/10 11:34 PM

its not just that increase in HP for me as i will be turning up the boost to about 1300HP now and then.

about 16 psi i would guess.

Posted By: hemi-itis

Re: head swap to B1 BS HP gain? - 01/10/10 11:39 PM

Quote:

its not just that increase in HP for me as i will be turning up the boost to about 1300HP now and then. about 16 psi i would guess.

Posted By: bpattp444

Re: head swap to B1 BS HP gain? - 01/13/10 03:03 PM

I run a set of Koffels ported B1/BS heads with the B1 Intake. The ports are bigger than the MW ports. The B1 intake is cut big time.
Tube Chassie Truck
2785 LB PG Trans
1.21 60'
5.57 1/8
8.76 1/4

Posted By: Bill_T

Re: head swap to B1 BS HP gain? - 01/14/10 04:44 PM

Quote:

i have harland sharp that will work but i need to change the intake rocker to the correct offset and HS sells those.sorry you had problems with the springs,valves...

Back in the 90s board member MRMOPAR pretty much ran the combo you are looking at. IIRC it was a .040 stock stroke 440 with Pro Gram Main Caps, a Callies Crank, Ferea Rods, Crower 280R roller with a GMC 6-71 on a Dyers intake with a pair of 850s from the supercharger store (?) and the B1BS heads. I don't believe that the heads were ported at all - just OOTB, and I am not convinced that they did all that much over the iron heads they replaced. In other words, I don't think I would bother without porting them.

I believe he still has a set of the special offset B1BS Harland Sharp rockers that he would be willing to unload. Try sending him a PM.

Posted By: blownzoom440

Re: head swap to B1 BS HP gain? - 01/14/10 07:03 PM

interesting! thanks.
mine will be made to flow as stated in the 330 range so it will be better than the 280 cfm i had from the iron heads.

i am sure the new rockers have a better baring now from then.i will check.

head swap to B1 BS HP gain?