Moparts

Your opinions Please- my motor is finally apart !

Posted By: 493_DART

Your opinions Please- my motor is finally apart ! - 12/07/09 09:15 AM

After around 4 years I got my engine torn down tonight. Never a major problem with it--but its long overdue for inspection.

Im posting some pics I took of various parts to see what ya'll think. I dont have the crank out yet, but theres some pics of 2 of the rod journals , rod bearings , pistons , and the solid cam.


its a 493, Ross pistons, Clevites, Scott Brown solid cam, pump gas, eddy rpm heads. Never shifted the thing over 6200 .


rod

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v225/solrizzo/rod2.jpg


rod 2

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v225/solrizzo/rod1.jpg

piston 1

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v225/solrizzo/piston2.jpg

piston 2

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v225/solrizzo/piston1.jpg

cam lobes

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v225/solrizzo/cam2.jpg

cam lobes 2

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v225/solrizzo/cam1.jpg

crank 1

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v225/solrizzo/crank2.jpg

crank2

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v225/solrizzo/crank1.jpg



among other things---do those cam lobes look ok--or nice and worn ?
Obviously im putting new bearings in the ol' girl...
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Your opinions Please- my motor is finally apart ! - 12/07/09 10:44 AM

that looks pretty normal. a simple freshening is obviously in order but the camshaft should be replaced IMO. i'd check the bottom of the lifters to see if they are still convex shaped. looking at the worn lobes, some of the lifters might be flat or convex now. how do the cylinder walls look? timing chain stretch? valve springs and guides???, etc. etc.
Posted By: 493_DART

Re: Your opinions Please- my motor is finally apart ! - 12/07/09 11:59 AM

thanks for the reply D ,

lifters are Comp-they looked great to the eye,

cylinders have some wear--will be getting those honed and inspected for sure---with new rings of course .

the timing chain shows about 1/4" play ( pushing it in from a flat edge) . ! seems too much ?

Havent looked at the heads but they were basic ported / gone through 2 years ago. Springs are new 8005 Isky a year ago.

i didnt think that timing chain would get that loose after 3 years.....its a Comp double roller




i think my "freshen up" deal is going to get expensive...

LOG BOOK SHOWS 182 PASSES----PLUS MAYBE 30 STREET MILES !

doesnt it always happen like that ?
Posted By: 440Jim

Re: Your opinions Please- my motor is finally apart ! - 12/08/09 01:46 AM

I find it very difficult to see issues from pictures, especially on the computer/web size. Even an untrained eye in person has a hard time seeing things unless they are very bad (or like new).

182 passes isn't a lot, but 4 years is a good time to do an inspection. I have seen better bearings, and worse in that number of runs. You need to look carefully at each one to see if any machining variations need addressing.

Like you said, the bearings and timing chain obviously should not be reused. The cam is a tougher call, from eye ball pictures on the web.
Posted By: 493_DART

Re: Your opinions Please- my motor is finally apart ! - 12/22/09 12:33 AM

Quote:

that looks pretty normal. a simple freshening is obviously in order but the camshaft should be replaced IMO. i'd check the bottom of the lifters to see if they are still convex shaped. looking at the worn lobes, some of the lifters might be flat or convex now. how do the cylinder walls look? timing chain stretch? valve springs and guides???, etc. etc.



i did look at the lifters again today. Some look pretty flat , some ARE convex ...

There is some scuffing at the bottom of some of the bores and the piston skirts .

What are the causes of the scuffing - too little piston to bore clearance?
The pistons were new Ross with file fit rings , 4.350 bore
Posted By: sam64

Re: Your opinions Please- my motor is finally apart ! - 12/22/09 12:39 AM

could be pieces of the lifters that are going?i had cam loose 4 lobes and lifters,trashed the skirts on bores only 2 passes.
Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: Your opinions Please- my motor is finally apart ! - 12/22/09 05:34 AM

The piston bottoms look like they are coming out of the bottom of the cylinders,yes? If so mine look like that also and they measure good, check yours to see(if you have the original specs on them) if they are worn or not. I have found(and have quit using them) that the Ross piston skirts seem to be very delicate and show damage(scratching) when they are not worn I have now switch to Diamond Pistons for that very reason
Posted By: Thumperdart

Re: Your opinions Please- my motor is finally apart ! - 12/22/09 05:34 AM

Looks like normal wear to me as I worked for a local builder and we freshened roundy-round motors that looked similar after a season of racing. I agree about a new cam/lifters(roller if you can) would be nice and as an example, my car has roughly as many passes and a few thousand street miles and ran it`s quickest pass earlier this year. Why did u tear it down anyways? Just curious. I hope to freshen mine soon unless it sells. Good luck w/it.
Posted By: Bob_Coomer

Re: Your opinions Please- my motor is finally apart ! - 12/22/09 05:47 AM

Got a set of calipers? Measure the lobes see if you read a diff..Its hard to tell from the pics, but that one lobe does look like it has some wear...The pistons, and bearings are pretty much normal wear..
Posted By: tboomer

Re: Your opinions Please- my motor is finally apart ! - 12/22/09 06:19 AM

Kevin...Gonna have Hollywood or Steve look at it?
Posted By: 493_DART

Re: Your opinions Please- my motor is finally apart ! - 12/22/09 08:22 AM

ok...thanks guys.

Thumper - i tore it down just to see how things were looking inside --it was due.I dont see any major issues

Cab-- so thats a normal thing with Ross? - i guess thats "kinda" good news...

I probably wont run the cam , hope to MAYBE go to a roller , i guess its back to pb&j / hotdogs for dinner for a couple months...


Ted - tryin to talk Jimmy Mopar into flexhoning the bores (i dont have a flex hone---need to buy one i guess) , plus i wouldnt mind him or Steve putting another set of eyeballs on my junk while its apart .... Im sure i will miss something...






if i put a roller in this thing yer never gonna catch me in that ol Dodge of yours......
Posted By: Al_Alguire

Re: Your opinions Please- my motor is finally apart ! - 12/22/09 03:12 PM

Roller Roller Roller
Posted By: moper

Re: Your opinions Please- my motor is finally apart ! - 12/22/09 04:29 PM

Flex hones leave too rough a surface. I'd have it professionally properly honed if it needs it. With that little time it may not. I've used scotchbrite wrapped around a rigid hone to get a fresh surface and clean the bores without going appreciably bigger.
Posted By: Quicktree

Re: Your opinions Please- my motor is finally apart ! - 12/22/09 05:08 PM

only 182 passes and you need a freshen up who can afford that? we have almost put that many just testing nad getting things sorted out.
Posted By: Thumperdart

Re: Your opinions Please- my motor is finally apart ! - 12/22/09 05:46 PM

Quick, that`s why I asked WHY?
Posted By: 493_DART

Re: Your opinions Please- my motor is finally apart ! - 12/22/09 09:07 PM

Quote:

only 182 passes and you need a freshen up who can afford that? we have almost put that many just testing nad getting things sorted out.




you cant afford $250 for rings/bearings ??

sorry to hear that.



It takes you 182 passes to sort out a car ?



Maybe I can come down and help ya out . I like Florida.

Posted By: Quicktree

Re: Your opinions Please- my motor is finally apart ! - 12/23/09 04:46 AM

Quote:

Quote:

only 182 passes and you need a freshen up who can afford that? we have almost put that many just testing nad getting things sorted out.




you cant afford $250 for rings/bearings ??

sorry to hear that.



It takes you 182 passes to sort out a car ?



Maybe I can come down and help ya out . I like Florida.





yea you do that but I promise the motor womt be coming out until about 350 more passes
Posted By: Quicktree

Re: Your opinions Please- my motor is finally apart ! - 12/23/09 05:04 AM

Quote:

Quote:

only 182 passes and you need a freshen up who can afford that? we have almost put that many just testing nad getting things sorted out.




you cant afford $250 for rings/bearings ??

sorry to hear that.



It takes you 182 passes to sort out a car ?



Maybe I can come down and help ya out . I like Florida.

oh yea, sounds like you better do some more sorting I have already out run you with half the motor



Posted By: 493_DART

Re: Your opinions Please- my motor is finally apart ! - 12/23/09 07:21 AM

Thats cool

post your combo Quicktree , maybe i can learn something from you.

"half the motor" would be...what.....a 383 or smaller with a 509 cam or smaller / pump gas / n/a , around 9:1 max ?

is that about right ? cuz i dont have a lot in this motor....
Posted By: Anonymous

Post deleted by Defbob - 12/23/09 08:54 AM

Posted By: 6packattk

Re: Your opinions Please- my motor is finally apart ! *DELETED* - 12/23/09 09:58 AM

Post deleted by 6packattk
Posted By: 493_DART

Re: Your opinions Please- my motor is finally apart ! - 12/23/09 10:14 AM

6pak--
this thread is pretty FAR from going south actually....




i was just looking for some good Moparts Race eyeballs on some pics of my stuff


Just have to warm up to Quicktree is all......


Posted By: gregsdart

Re: Your opinions Please- my motor is finally apart ! - 12/23/09 10:20 AM

I agree on the roller, great time to go there. Deducting the cost of the new solid cam and lifters lowers the cost per hp quite a bit.
Posted By: 493_DART

Re: Your opinions Please- my motor is finally apart ! - 12/23/09 10:29 AM

id love to roller . We shall see what happens with $$$ the next few months .


let me throw this out there-- i have new Isky 8005 springs. Will they be ok with a .600 ,or close, roller..... ?
Posted By: sshemi

Re: Your opinions Please- my motor is finally apart ! - 12/23/09 10:29 AM

Quote:

Quote:

only 182 passes and you need a freshen up who can afford that? we have almost put that many just testing nad getting things sorted out.



175 were just to set the pinion angle



Posted By: Quicktree

Re: Your opinions Please- my motor is finally apart ! - 12/23/09 12:08 PM

Quote:

Thats cool

post your combo Quicktree , maybe i can learn something from you.

"half the motor" would be...what.....a 383 or smaller with a 509 cam or smaller / pump gas / n/a , around 9:1 max ?

is that about right ? cuz i dont have a lot in this motor....



I hope you know I am poking fun at you some of you guys take things way to serious. my motor is 365ci 11.5:1 CR with a 575 comp cam.
Posted By: Quicktree

Re: Your opinions Please- my motor is finally apart ! - 12/23/09 12:09 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

only 182 passes and you need a freshen up who can afford that? we have almost put that many just testing nad getting things sorted out.



175 were just to set the pinion angle







baa it was set before the first pass
Posted By: rickstershemi

Re: Your opinions Please- my motor is finally apart ! - 12/23/09 12:35 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

only 182 passes and you need a freshen up who can afford that? we have almost put that many just testing nad getting things sorted out.



175 were just to set the pinion angle







baa it was set before the first pass



But did you phase it correctly

Rickster
Posted By: AAR-B4

Re: Your opinions Please- my motor is finally apart ! - 12/23/09 01:13 PM

I agree with replacing the cam. With the lower zinc and phosphorus in today's oils flat tappet cams do wear quickly.
Also, I would chamfer the oil passages in the crank to improve oil flow and eliminate stress risers.
Posted By: Quicktree

Re: Your opinions Please- my motor is finally apart ! - 12/23/09 01:52 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

only 182 passes and you need a freshen up who can afford that? we have almost put that many just testing nad getting things sorted out.



175 were just to set the pinion angle







baa it was set before the first pass



But did you phase it correctly

Rickster


quit messing up the guys post
Posted By: gregsdart

Re: Your opinions Please- my motor is finally apart ! - 12/23/09 03:26 PM

Quote:

id love to roller . We shall see what happens with $$$ the next few months .


let me throw this out there-- i have new Isky 8005 springs. Will they be ok with a .600 ,or close, roller..... ?


On a used street roller, maybe. Solid race roller, not a chance.
Posted By: 440Jim

Re: Your opinions Please- my motor is finally apart ! - 12/23/09 07:45 PM

Quote:

let me throw this out there-- i have new Isky 8005 springs. Will they be ok with a .600 ,or close, roller..... ?

Those are for a flat tappet cam, don't waste your time running them with a roller cam. The spec is about 135 seat (1.875), 395 open (.650 lift).
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