Post deleted by Defbob

Posted By: B G Racing

Re: D.O.T.. regulations again - 12/14/09 11:36 PM

The Federal rules and regulations don't mean squat to the state or local jurisdiction and the officer citing you.It's up to their disgression.Private,commercial,fun,hobby or profit.Many remember what I went through last year comming back from Ohio and the All Hemi Reunion.Not 20 minutes from home on I-79 I was pulled over while passing a open weigh station.I was fine $1200 for exceeding my gross vehicle weight of my Dodge daully plated for 15,000 GVW.My entire rig was a total of 23,600.I was fortunate to have a CDL and medical card for which I understand is need over 26,001#.Wrong!!! any trailer over 10,000# and requires bi-annual state inspection.I had to retitle and plate my truck for GVCW(gross vehichle combination weight)a class 8 sticker in Pa.So if your total GVCW exceeds your GVW titled weight you have a problem.The only relief is that half of the district judges and cops don't understand the laws themselves.This year everytime I pull into the weigh station they wave me on and look at me like are you stupid

I'am now legal and the plates are costly but when I'am stopped I can

except that any ticket I get is double the cost if you have a CDL licence.

The only exceptions is anything plated "motor home"

Posted By: jcc

Re: D.O.T.. regulations again - 12/15/09 12:36 AM

As "ro23car" wisely suggests, the hammer is coming down 7/10? with new CVSA regulations. This will be thought of as just a tea party. Google it for yourself. You sure will be gald you got your easy to get DOT #, so they know where to find you, place you out of service, and then you get to find out what the fine/penalty is for out of service violations, Ha! The gun lobby has it togther on registering guns, to bad the trucking people have just rolled over and played dead.

And even though we are in the great recession, and my revenues are way down, and there are fewer trucks on the roads "tearing" them up, Fla has raised my yearly tag fee on one of my trucks, for no apparent reason $397.00, ( it was $998.00) Ouch.

But also in their infinite wisdom, on a 70 mile stretch of US 27 from Miami to South bay, with a 50 mile stretch, without a single traffic light, in the Everglades, DOT has planted, in a dozen places, on the side of the road, 100's of Sabal Palms. There isn't a native tree within a 20 mile radius, and I bet there isn't a single natural Sabal Plam within a 30 mile radius. Of course these trees had to be braced for frequent storms, forget about lightning hits, and of course watered until rooted, and then of course unbraced. All this with taxpayer money in a great recession, while they fine the heck out you 10,000lb+ CMV truckers to pay for it?. Anybody getting this?

Check out your new trees

Attached picture 5668052-IMG_0874-waste-tree-US-27.jpg

Posted By: Prostock

Re: D.O.T.. regulations again - 12/15/09 12:47 AM

How much a year do they whack you Bob for that class 8 registration? My ram is only registered as class 3 and I cringe at the $153 fee.

Posted By: B G Racing

Re: D.O.T.. regulations again - 12/15/09 01:15 AM

Quote:

How much a year do they whack you Bob for that class 8 registration? My ram is only registered as class 3 and I cringe at the $153 fee.

$450 per year.

For a 3500 daully.+ bi-annual trailer inspection.

Posted By: B1KILLER

Re: D.O.T.. regulations again - 12/15/09 01:29 AM

Quote:

As "ro23car" wisely suggests, the hammer is coming down 7/10? with new CVSA regulations. This will be thought of as just a tea party. Google it for yourself. You sure will be gald you got your easy to get DOT #, so they know where to find you, place you out of service, and then you get to find out what the fine/penalty is for out of service violations, Ha! The gun lobby has it togther on registering guns, to bad the trucking people have just rolled over and played dead.

And even though we are in the great recession, and my revenues are way down, and there are fewer trucks on the roads "tearing" them up, Fla has raised my yearly tag fee on one of my trucks, for no apparent reason $397.00, ( it was $998.00) Ouch.

But also in their infinite wisdom, on a 70 mile stretch of US 27 from Miami to South bay, with a 50 mile stretch, without a single traffic light, in the Everglades, DOT has planted, in a dozen places, on the side of the road, 100's of Sabal Palms. There isn't a native tree within a 20 mile radius, and I bet there isn't a single natural Sabal Plam within a 30 mile radius. Of course these trees had to be braced for frequent storms, forget about lightning hits, and of course watered until rooted, and then of course unbraced. All this with taxpayer money in a great recession, while they fine the heck out you 10,000lb+ CMV truckers to pay for it?. Anybody getting this?

Check out your new trees

Thats one krazy road, ran out of fuel there once, never again

Posted By: ro23car

Re: D.O.T.. regulations again - 12/15/09 01:52 PM

Quote:

As "ro23car" wisely suggests, the hammer is coming down 7/10? with new CVSA regulations. This will be thought of as just a tea party. Google it for yourself. You sure will be gald you got your easy to get DOT #, so they know where to find you, place you out of service, and then you get to find out what the fine/penalty is for out of service violations, Ha! The gun lobby has it togther on registering guns, to bad the trucking people have just rolled over and played dead.

And even though we are in the great recession, and my revenues are way down, and there are fewer trucks on the roads "tearing" them up, Fla has raised my yearly tag fee on one of my trucks, for no apparent reason $397.00, ( it was $998.00) Ouch.

But also in their infinite wisdom, on a 70 mile stretch of US 27 from Miami to South bay, with a 50 mile stretch, without a single traffic light, in the Everglades, DOT has planted, in a dozen places, on the side of the road, 100's of Sabal Palms. There isn't a native tree within a 20 mile radius, and I bet there isn't a single natural Sabal Plam within a 30 mile radius. Of course these trees had to be braced for frequent storms, forget about lightning hits, and of course watered until rooted, and then of course unbraced. All this with taxpayer money in a great recession, while they fine the heck out you 10,000lb+ CMV truckers to pay for it?. Anybody getting this?

Check out your new trees

i for one has not rolled over but most of the industry has since deregulation

Posted By: B G Racing

Re: D.O.T.. regulations again - 12/15/09 02:29 PM

Pa.title registration require the mfg advertized recommendation for GVCW(combination weight)usually found in the operating manual or spec litature and restricts your upping your weight class to those specs.It's based axle loads,suspension,tire contact and braking capasities.

Posted By: Challenger 1

Re: D.O.T.. regulations again - 12/15/09 03:35 PM

Quote:

The Federal rules and regulations don't mean squat to the state or local jurisdiction and the officer citing you.It's up to their disgression.Private,commercial,fun,hobby or profit.Many remember what I went through last year comming back from Ohio and the All Hemi Reunion.Not 20 minutes from home on I-79 I was pulled over while passing a open weigh station.I was fine $1200 for exceeding my gross vehicle weight of my Dodge daully plated for 15,000 GVW.My entire rig was a total of 23,600.I was fortunate to have a CDL and medical card for which I understand is need over 26,001#.Wrong!!! any trailer over 10,000# and requires bi-annual state inspection.I had to retitle and plate my truck for GVCW(gross vehichle combination weight)a class 8 sticker in Pa.So if your total GVCW exceeds your GVW titled weight you have a problem.The only relief is that half of the district judges and cops don't understand the laws themselves.This year everytime I pull into the weigh station they wave me on and look at me like are you stupid I'am now legal and the plates are costly but when I'am stopped I can except that any ticket I get is double the cost if you have a CDL licence. The only exceptions is anything plated "motor home"

When I got my registration for my toterhome I had to take it over to the regristration office. All the ladies(4) came outside to look at it and I took them inside to see it.

A week or so when I went back to get my new title and MH plates the lady said they had a heck of a time convincing the state it was a motorhome. She said it must have been the first freightliner licensed in Ohio as a MH. She said they called her twice to check and they told the state they were inside it and were sure it was a motor home. My original paper work from freightliner said it was built on a MH assy line. 505 HP and all truck componets makes it a pleasure to drive. I have put over 50K miles on it and have never been pulled over in it and I have passed many open weigh stations. I made sure to never decal my race trailers even though my sponsors asked about it.

I own and maintain 9 hazmat tanker trucks at work and know all about the regs as I employ hazmat drivers.

It cost me 70 bucks a year and gives me the capability to tow any size trailer as long as it's not for profit. And how are they gonna know if I'm getting paid or not?

Posted By: emarine01

Re: D.O.T.. regulations again - 12/15/09 04:16 PM

Whats up with the hazmat rules for having 55 gal drums in the back of a pick up, Got pulled over with 2 drums of race fuel, was told I needed a CDL with a hazmat permit

He told me that he could write a huge amount of tickeks but let me go

anybody else have this problem?

Posted By: Challenger 1

Re: D.O.T.. regulations again - 12/15/09 04:21 PM

The fed law says any more than 1000 lbs gross weight of hazmat means you need 4 placards on your truck and a CDL license with hazmat endorsements. Plus you need a med card, hazmat training, and shipping papers. We sell and ship drums of race fuel and are required to limit 2 drums per truck unless there placarded. 1000 lbs includes the container and product. That's why you only see max 110 gal fuel tanks for the back of pickups. The shipper can be held liable also.

That guy was wrong if you only had 2 drums. been hazmat shipping since 1984.

Posted By: jcc

Re: D.O.T.. regulations again - 12/15/09 04:40 PM

Quote:

The fed law says any more than 1000 lbs gross weight of hazmat means you need 4 placards on your truck and a CDL lisense with hazmat endorsements. Plus you need med card, hazmat training, and shipping papers. We sell and ship drums of race fuel and are required to limit 2 drums per truck unless there placarded. 1000 lbs includes the container and product. That's why you only see max 110 gal fuel tanks for the back of pickups.

That guy was wrong if you only had 2 drums. been hazmat shipping since 1984.

I think there are different rules for small (?) amounts and tanker/bulk quantities. Yes 110 gals is one threshold I believe, not weight if a liquid. Any haz mat has a reportable quantity, and they are all different. A big threshold is whether its in the fuel tank of a piece of equipment or not, such as a generator or race car, fuel drums do have definite requirements. They also cannot not be stored with other problem materials, such as caustics, acids, O2, etc. hazards must be marked multiple places on the container (ie different reuse of drums is an issue), they have to be properly secured, etc. Its a really big complicated manual on Hazmat. Large quantities require a bulk carrier endorsement as mentioned that requires big insurance limits, tunnel restrictions, driver biannual? criminal background checks, etc.

Posted By: emarine01

Re: D.O.T.. regulations again - 12/15/09 04:45 PM

We had 2/ 55s of 110 and 4 / 6gal cans of 100ll when stopped, the cop was pretty cool with the whole thing , He said that he should call the Feds by law and have me checked out but our kids play on the same football team so he just let me go,This is a good reason to go E85 and buy it close to home, don't need the hassle

Posted By: Challenger 1

Re: D.O.T.. regulations again - 12/15/09 04:48 PM

Quote:

Quote:

The fed law says any more than 1000 lbs gross weight of hazmat means you need 4 placards on your truck and a CDL lisense with hazmat endorsements. Plus you need med card, hazmat training, and shipping papers. We sell and ship drums of race fuel and are required to limit 2 drums per truck unless there placarded. 1000 lbs includes the container and product. That's why you only see max 110 gal fuel tanks for the back of pickups.

That guy was wrong if you only had 2 drums. been hazmat shipping since 1984.

I think there are different rules for small (?) amounts and tanker/bulk quantities. Yes 110 gals is one threshold I believe, not weight if a liquid. Any haz mat has a reportable quantity, and they are all different. A big threshold is whether its in the fuel tank of a piece of equipment or not, such as a generator or race car, fuel drums do have definite requirements. They also cannot not be stored with other problem materials, such as caustics, acids, O2, etc. hazards must be marked multiple places on the container (ie different reuse of drums is an issue), they have to be properly secured, etc. Its a really big complicated manual on Hazmat. Large quantities require a bulk carrier endorsement as mentioned that requires big insurance limits, tunnel restrictions, driver biannual? criminal background checks, etc.

All class 2 and 3 materials are 1000 lbs, I'm sure. I also ship flamable gases, LP gas(class2).

Posted By: emarine01

Re: D.O.T.. regulations again - 12/15/09 04:59 PM

Is diesel fuel the same as gas? I have been filling a 250 gal tank in my pick up for the farm for years

Posted By: nhramark

Re: D.O.T.. regulations again - 12/15/09 05:15 PM

Quote:

That guy was wrong if you only had 2 drums. been hazmat shipping since 1984.

Quote:

All class 2 and 3 materials are 1000 lbs, I'm sure. I also ship flamable gases, LP gas(class2).

I'm with Challenger 1 here. DOT goes by weight, 1,000 lbs or less - you're good. 1,001 or more you have to be placarded, etc.

You can haul 2 drums no problem, that cop was mis-informed.

Posted By: jcc

Re: D.O.T.. regulations again - 12/15/09 05:15 PM

Likely, yes, you are considered a bulk carrier, and I don't even think personal use (ie Non CMV) applies here, but not sure.

Posted By: Anonymous

Post deleted by Defbob - 12/15/09 05:31 PM

Posted By: Challenger 1

Re: D.O.T.. regulations again - 12/15/09 05:38 PM

Quote:

Is diesel fuel the same as gas? I have been filling a 250 gal tank in my pick up for the farm for years

Yes, class 3
And it doesn't matter what your driving, if they see that you have more than a RQ of hazmat material that your hauling without placards, etc, your in trouble.

The problem with you hauling in a non spec tank , unlike a DOT tank is it doesn't have baffles in it and the heads are likely to fail if you ever got in a accident where the truck stopped fast. The head welds of the the tank can and will rupture, I've seen it.

Posted By: jcc

Re: D.O.T.. regulations again - 12/15/09 05:43 PM

Quote:

You can haul 2 drums no problem, that cop was mis-informed.

I have a Haz mat endorsement. But I haven't transported any for years. It used to be the 119 gal threshold. Looking online briefly, it appears the new standard revolves around the twice mentioned already 1000lb threshold. I guess the cop and I are outdated.

Posted By: jcc

Re: D.O.T.. regulations again - 12/15/09 05:57 PM

Quote:

I found this excellent explanation in details with pictures from NC DOT .The best info so far and it appears that rulings are going to be close in most other states.
http://www.unlimitedawnings.com/mstp.pdf

Yes I agree, but only covers NC, easy reading, just find out how screwed you ( in general) are.

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: D.O.T.. regulations again - 12/15/09 06:57 PM

Quote:

Whats up with the hazmat rules for having 55 gal drums in the back of a pick up, Got pulled over with 2 drums of race fuel, was told I needed a CDL with a hazmat permit He told me that he could write a huge amount of tickeks but let me go anybody else have this problem?

Here in Mich you can haul up to 110 gals without a cdl,
I was asked to get a cdl from work for a program that
I worked with(non company project)but I cant get a
cdl due to health

Posted By: TS3303

Re: D.O.T.. regulations again - 12/15/09 07:25 PM

"If vehicle has a 5th wheel, it must be registered as a Truck Tractor."

time to go back to being unsafe with a 1/2 ton and 24' tag...........

what amazes me is our sanctioning bodies (NHRA, IHRA, NASCAR, etc) with the size of their memberships can't or won't lobby for a clear motorsport regulation!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I am also a life member of AMA (American Motorcyclist Assoc.) and they are constantly lobbying (successfully) for motorcycle rights. I'm sure there is more money behind racing than motorcycling.

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: D.O.T.. regulations again - 12/15/09 09:22 PM

Quote:

"If vehicle has a 5th wheel, it must be registered as a Truck Tractor."

Is this true.... my rig is a 5th wheel but you cant
see it(I use a snap on cover over the bed even when
the trailer is hooked up). Plus I've seen camper trailer
with 5th wheels(you could have a choice when purchused)

Posted By: Anonymous

Post deleted by Defbob - 12/15/09 09:27 PM

Posted By: tazmaniac

Re: D.O.T.. regulations again - 12/17/09 01:25 AM

There has been much discussion on Gas-FX and other email groups lately on the need for Commercial Driver's Licenses (CDL) and Department of Transportation numbers (USDOT). This discussion was led primarily by Mary Cedeno. Mary and her husband, Carlos, are the current caretakers of the famous Kohler Bros. King Kong Anglia. Mary has done a tremendous amount of research on this issue, and the results are not particularly comforting. Please read the following article and contact any of your friends who may be impacted. This includes not just "car people", but also "boat people, "horse people" and anyone else whose hobby may include towing a trailer.
If this information concerns you (and it should!) you might consider contacting your local, state, and federal representatives and demanding that they press for simplification of the rules (Yeah...that'll happen!) and, at the very least, provide education so that law enforcement officers can be consistent in enforcing these rules correctly.

I'd like to thank Mary for allowing her research to be shared with visitors to Gasser Madness!.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Update: 7/31/2007
I have just finished speaking with yet another rep from the Federal Motor Carriers Safety Admin office - I have asked for help in disseminating the information about the exception WITH the guidance information. At first, he insisted that all the DOT enforcement officers should be aware of the exception because they are all trained. But when I explained how many phone calls I had made to how many offices and even the FMCSA help line did not know about the exception, he finally agreed that they might be able to help. So he has taken my information and I am hoping he will come through for us.

He has questioned why he has not heard about any problems with this from anyone else. I have explained that some of the people who are exempt (under 390.3(f)(3) have gone ahead and gotten a DOT number without realizing that they are now required to keep the logs, do the driver reviews, drug testing, and so on. So, they are in effect, rolling over and trying to be compliant with a regulation that does not even apply to them. When they DO get stopped, it will not be enough that they have a number plastered on their vehicle....ALL THE FMCSA Safety regs (see form MCS-150A) WILL apply to them. He agreed that they would be in effect, agreeing that they are in commerce by getting the number.

The DOT enforcement officers have threatened to impound peoples' vehicles - if you are out of state when this happens, your only recourse is to fight the citation and then head back to that state to go before a judge.

Please, Please, Please. If you believe you are, or may be affected by this regulatory problem - PLEASE contact the FMCSA offices and your Congressman. I am only one person, and although I can be quite obnoxious when I need to be, if we have others on this band wagon saying the same things, it can't hurt.

The person I spoke with is Jack Kostelnik at (202) 366-5721.

If you have been stopped by a DOT officer or if you have gotten a DOT number and think you might not need it, PLEASE CALL ME. 716-570-5304.

Mary

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The DOT Regulations That Impact Car, Boat and Horse Enthusiasts

By Mary Cedeno

carlos_mary@verizon.net

APPLICABLE OR NOT, HERE THEY COME

Well, here it is. The Federal government has given us an exception to the DOT numbering requirements, and they gave their guidance describing who exactly gets the exception. Both are available for review online by anyone who would like to look at them.

[Note: This will open in a new browser window.]

(http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regulations/administration/fmcsr/fmcsrruletext.asp?rule_toc=759&section=390.3&section_toc=1738).

And then we have the enforcement agent.

It appears that it�s too difficult to determine who DOES need a DOT number and who does not, so DOT enforcement has decided to just make EVERYONE get one�.even though the regulation stipulates hobbyists such as ourselves don�t need one.

It�s the equivalent to hauling in all the redheads on the block because someone saw a redhead committing a crime. If the cops did this, they would be in the wrong and there would be many, many people pointing it out. So where is all the fuss? Why isn�t anyone saying anything? I think folks are intimidated and afraid to speak out. After all, the enforcement officer wields a lot of power over the average driver and they CAN make your life difficult - if only for a short time.

In the end, we hobbyists are subject NOT to the actual regulations, but to the INTERPRETATION by the officer who stops us on any given day, in any given state. And, although our US Constitution has other plans in mind, it appears that any officer in any state can simply write law through their enforcement activities. Just because we may be right does not mean we won�t get stopped by an officer somewhere who sees the rules/regulations differently.

If you ARE just a hobbyist and do not write off your expenses, and you want to take the exception, I suggest you not only carry a copy of the regulation and exception, but read it and understand it so you know why you are exempt, because it sounds to me like the officers on the road are going to test your knowledge.

Oh, and, if you call a DOT help line, they don�t even know about the exception. They insist if you�re over 10,000 lbs you must have a number.

-now here�s my caveat, I am NOT a regulatory expert or a lawyer. What I have put in this article are my observations and assessments as I see them. You need to open the books and read the regulations for yourself. If you have questions about what you are reading, you need to call your State, local, or whatever office and find out the answers.

Stay safe on the roads.

DOT REGULATIONS in a nut shell

The DOT regulations are FEDERAL regulations which the States have adopted and are paid to enforce. The States are required to enforce these registration requirements as a condition for receiving Motor Carrier Safety Assistance Program (MCSAP) funds. I have contacted many of the DOT offices in the eastern states, including NY, PA, VA, NC, SC and WV. All of these states have adopted the federal regulations regarding DOT numbering, as written.

The regulation in question is 49 CFR 390 � this regulation stipulates the applicability of the requirements for Motor Carrier ID Numbering. The DOT numbering system is not what gives me heartburn, it�s the FMCSA Safety Requirements that comes with them, including keeping the log book, safety training, drug testing, annual log reviews, etc and so on�obviously meant for COMMERCIAL companies. The exception and the guidance follows:

Under 390.3(f) Exceptions. Unless otherwise specifically provided, the rules in this subchapter do not apply to -

(f)(3) The occasional transportation of personal property by individuals not for compensation nor in the furtherance of a commercial enterprise;

In the interpretation section, Question 21: Does the exemption in �390.3(f)(3) for the �occasional transportation of personal property by individuals not for compensation nor in the furtherance of a commercial enterprise� apply to persons who occasionally use CMVs to transport cars, boats, horses, etc., to races, tournaments, shows or similar events, even if prize money is offered at these events?

Guidance: The exemption would apply to this kind of transportation, provided: (1) The underlying activities are not undertaken for profit, i.e., (a) prize money is declared as ordinary income for tax purposes, and (b) the cost of the underlying activities is not deducted as a business expense for tax purposes; and, where relevant; (2) corporate sponsorship is not involved. Drivers must confer with their State of licensure to determine the licensing provisions to which they are subject.

HOBBY OR BUSINESS?

If someone is driving their race car to the race track to bracket race, and they have supplier decals plastered all over the car for endorsement money, if they claim any winnings as regular income and do not write off their expenses on their taxes, is that person subject to the DOT Motor Carrier ID numbering requirements? Well, I guess the answer would really depend on the interpretation of part (2) of the Guidance, and if the officer believes you are really just a hobbyist.

I spoke with two different Federal DOT officers, one in WV and one in NY. I asked the same question of both�What if a person is a member of a car club and the club obtains money from sponsors, the car is required to run the decals of the sponsors. The prize money for anyone who wins is made up partly of the money the club obtained from sponsors and partly from membership dues. Now, is that considered corporate sponsorship? BOTH of the agents I spoke with told me no, that would be prize money and the exception would still apply if they claimed it as regular income and did not write off expenses as part of a business.

Well it makes sense if you think about it, because the racer is just a �once in a while, run your car down the track� racer. He is not in business, like John Force, or even Paul Gast. He is simply trying to recoup some of his funds from his hobby. In fact, even if the bracket racer raced EVERY week, according to the exception, as long as he claimed his winnings as regular income and did not write off his expenses and had no corporate sponsorship, he would STILL be exempt from the DOT MC ID Numbering regulations, and those dreaded FMSCA safety certification requirements.

So, part of the problem appears to be, how does the officer stopping you know which the case is? And, how do you, as the one being ticketed and potentially impounded, prove to the officer that you are simply a HOBBY racer and not in business or under a corporate sponsorship?

The tax man would not think twice about pointing out to you that what you do is a hobby - not a business. But the DOT enforcement officer sees something else. And we, as hobbyists, are stuck in the middle.

CONSEQUENCES OF USDOT NUMBERING

Some of you are wondering, �Wouldn�t it be easier to just get the DOT number and be done with it?�

Well, if you are in business, towing over 10,000 lbs, you have no choice; you must get the DOT number. However, if you are a hobbyist and abide by all the restrictions of the exception noted above, and you still want to get the DOT number, you WILL be subject to the DOT safety regulations just as they apply to the commercial truckers.

If you get the ID number and travel from state to state, you are subject to the Federal Motor Carriers Safety Admins� Safety Certification. (See Form MC 150A). This is where my heartburn comes from. This MC-150A form requires drivers to keep log books to keep track of Hours - of -Service, for the employer to review the drivers records and keep proof of the review, so on and so forth. There are strict requirements for the log books, it�s not simply writing down your mileage from one place to the next. If you are interested in learning more about these regulations, you can stop at any truck stop and purchase the 661 page �Federal Motor Carrier Safety Regulations Pocketbook� for about $5. Oh, but don�t forget to grab the $2 (or so) �Official Deluxe Duplicate Copy DRIVER�S DAILY LOG� � because you�ll need that too if you get your USDOT number and intend to travel across state lines (even with your hobby race or show car).

RV�s AND THE USDOT NUMBERING REQUIREMENTS

OK, here�s the rub guys. You can get yourself a nice big toter home and tow your 50� recreational stacker trailer anywhere you want and you won�t need to worry about those silly little DOT numbers. You can tow it all day long � cover 100ft of road and no worry. No USDOT requirement for RV�s used solely for recreational purposes, if you use them for business purposes, that�s something else.

CDL LICENSING

If your gross vehicle weight (GVW) or gross vehicle combined weight (GVCW) are over 26,001 lbs you are most likely required to obtain a Commercial Drivers License (CDL). You might be able to get away with an RV Endorsement if you have an RV, but it varies from State to State and it might be easier just to get the CDL.

However, the CDL licensing may kick additional regulations into play. Please contact your DMV office and ask the questions before you decide to get the CDL.

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Posted By: tazmaniac

Re: D.O.T.. regulations again - 12/17/09 01:31 AM

one more read the Question 21 and Guidence

Even with the Guidance below, supplied by the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration, hobbyists are being stopped and cited by enforcement officers.

Question 21: Does the exemption in �390.3(f)(3) for the �occasional transportation of personal property by individuals not for compensation nor in the furtherance of a commercial enterprise� apply to persons who occasionally use CMVs to transport cars, boats, horses, etc., to races, tournaments, shows or similar events, even if prize money is offered at these events?

Guidance: The exemption would apply to this kind of transportation, provided: (1) The underlying activities are not undertaken for profit, i.e., (a) prize money is declared as ordinary income for tax purposes, and (b) the cost of the underlying activities is not deducted as a business expense for tax purposes; and, where relevant; (2) corporate sponsorship is not involved. Drivers must confer with their State of licensure to determine the licensing provisions to which they are subject.

SO, WHY ARE HOBBYISTS BEING TARGETED?
I asked a question of two different Federal Officers �What if a person is a member of a car club and the club obtains money from sponsors, the car is required to run the decals of the sponsors. The prize money for anyone who wins is made up partly of the money the club obtained from sponsors and partly from membership dues. Now, is that considered corporate sponsorship? BOTH of the agents I spoke with told me no, that would be prize money and the exception would still apply if they claimed it as regular income and did not write off expenses as part of a business. The difference is Corporate Sponsorship is what is paid to an individual whether they win a race or not, endorsement money is based on a driver winning and is therefore PRIZE money.

Part of the problem appears to be how the officer stopping you interprets what he/she is seeing. And, how do you, as the one being ticketed and potentially impounded, prove to the officer that you are simply a HOBBY racer and not in business or under a corporate sponsorship?

Even the people answering the phones at the FMCSA Help Line do not know about this exception and insisted anything over 10,000 lbs combined must have a DOT number. I spoke with supervisor after supervisor, until they finally referred me to the FMCSA Enforcement Office in Washington.

STUCK IN THE MIDDLE
According to the IRS, a business venture needs to have profit as its primary motive and the individuals involved need to spend a substantial amount of time participating in the venture. In order to write off business expenses the business needs to be profitable within three years and have a profit two out of five years with very few exceptions to this rule.

Just because you may have a lot of money invested into it, unless it is specifically performed for PROFIT and your �business� turns a profit in at least two of five years (generally speaking), then you have yourself a hobby, not a business.

So here we are, the hobby racer, seemingly stuck in the middle of two opposing federal rules. But not so, the IRS clearly defines the rules of business, and with the GUIDANCE in question 21 above, the FMCSA has clearly defined �commercial�. But unless the enforcement officer agrees, you will still be ticketed.

CONSEQUENCES OF USDOT NUMBERING
Some of you are wondering, �Wouldn�t it be easier to just get the DOT number and be done with it?�

Well, if you are operating a commercial motor vehicle over 10,000lbs for business purposes, you have no choice, you must get the DOT number. However, if you are a hobbyist abiding by all the restrictions of the exception noted above, and you still want to get the DOT number and cross state lines, you WILL be subject to the DOT safety regulations just as they apply to the commercial truckers.

If you are driving a 26,000 lb or more CMV, you are most likely required to obtain a CDL (commercial drivers� license). This will kick in even more restrictions, including annual drug and alcohol screening. However, if you are operating an RV - these CDL rules may not apply.

APPLICABLE OR NOT, HERE THEY COME
Well, here it is. The Federal government has given us an exception to the applicability of the DOT numbering requirements; they gave their guidance describing who exactly gets the exception. Both are available for review online by anyone who would like to look at them. And then we have the enforcement agent.

It seems that some of the DOT enforcement officers are unaware of the exception and may have never seen the interpretation in the FMCSA guidance documents. They may be having difficulty determining who IS a business and who is not. So, they appear to be requiring EVERYONE to get a DOT number�.even though the regulation stipulates hobbyists as described above, don�t need one.

It�s the equivalent to hauling in all the redheads on the block because someone saw a redhead committing a crime. If the police did this, they would be in the wrong and there would be many, many people pointing it out. So where is all the fuss? Why isn�t anyone saying anything? I think folks are intimidated and afraid to speak out. After all, the enforcement officer wields a lot of power over the average driver and they CAN make your life difficult - if only for a short time.

In the end, hobbyists are subject NOT to the actual regulations, but to the INTERPRETATION by the officer who stops us on any given day, in any given state. Just because we may be right does not mean we won�t get stopped by an officer somewhere who sees the rules/regulations differently.

WHAT CAN YOU DO?
If you ARE just a hobbyist and do not write off your expenses, and you want to take the exception, I suggest you not only carry a copy of the regulation and exception, but read it and understand it so that you can CALMLY explain it to the officer who may stop you. Because it sounds to me like the officers on the road are going to test your knowledge.

If you ARE cited, be sure take the opportunity to go to court to explain the situation and defend yourself. Because if you ARE just a hobbyist, the exemption in the regulations is written for YOU. If you do go to court, you might want to bring your tax records with you as proof.

Although all the States have adopted the federal regulation, be aware that individual States may have additional regulations written in to their traffic laws. It is your responsibility to contact the state where you plan to tow your vehicle and check on the regulations that apply. That is easier said than done of course. I personally was transferred over seven times on the phone when trying to find a DOT officer in one state who could tell me if they had any additional regulations that may apply. I ended up back at the first one who transferred me!

Don�t be shy. Contact your local track owners, state representatives and anyone else who will listen. There is an exception - if it does not apply to hobbyists - then who does it apply to?

RV�s AND THE USDOT NUMBERING REQUIREMENTS
OK, here�s the rub guys. You can get yourself a nice big toter home and tow your 50� recreational stacker trailer anywhere you want and you won�t need to worry about those silly little DOT numbers. You can tow it all day long � cover 80ft of road and no worry. No USDOT requirements for RV�s used solely for recreational purposes, if you use them for business that�s something else and the regulations would apply.

CDL LICENSING
If your gross vehicle weight (GVW) or gross vehicle combined weight (GVCW) are over 26,000 lbs you are most likely required to obtain a Commercial Drivers License (CDL). You might be able to get away with an RV Endorsement if you have an RV, but it varies from State to State and it might be easier just to get the CDL. However, the CDL licensing may kick additional regulations into play. Please contact your DMV office and ask the questions before you decide to get the CDL.

ADDITIONAL INFORMATION
FMCSA = Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration

The specific regulation is 49 CFR 390.3
The FMCSA web site where the regulation and Guidance document are located are at:
www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regulations/administration/fmcsr/390reg.htm

I have been told by a FMCSA rep that ALL states have adopted this federal regulation.
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Posted By: David_in_St_Croi

Re: D.O.T.. regulations again - 12/17/09 01:38 AM

In case anyone here wonders why here in the Islands we call the mainland Babylon this thread should make it clear.

Posted By: jcc

Re: D.O.T.. regulations again - 12/17/09 01:38 AM

Very interesting, anybody feel the noose tightening yet?

And no one has yet addressed how you void a DOT number, Not sure you can without severe reprecussions.

And I got this yesterday by email, which is in congress and a in committee, and the bil basicaly says all CMV will need full time trip recorders.

"URGENT!

EOBRs and REAL TIME TRACKING OF TRUCKERS

SENATOR BILL NELSON, one of your lawmakers in the U.S. Senate, serves on the Senate Commerce, Science and Transportation committee. On Thursday morning (12/17) the Commerce committee will be voting on S.554, the �Motor Coach Enhanced Safety Act.�

Senator Frank Lautenberg (NJ) plans to offer an amendment to S.554 that will require all trucks to have Electronic Onboard Recorders (EOBRs) installed and will require �real time tracking� of drivers and vehicles.

While we believe Senator Lautenberg has noble intentions, the amendment will not bring the safety benefits that he envisions and will actually create numerous problems. His amendment will be costly, especially for small business, and it brings up numerous privacy concerns for America�s truckers.

Please call and/or fax Senator Nelson TODAY and tell him to �vote �No� on the Lautenberg amendment to S.554.�

The telephone number for Senator Nelson�s Capitol Hill office is (202) 224-5274.

The fax number for Senator Nelson�s office is (202) 228-2183.

----------------------

SAMPLE MESSAGE:

�I am a small business trucker from_____, Florida. As my representative Senator Nelson should vote �No� on the Lautenberg amendment to S.554. I know from firsthand experience that the amendment will not make trucking more safe.

----------------------

1984 only took 25 years to get here.

Can't say we haven't seen this coming for a long time:
https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/show...e=0#Post4611784

Posted By: dynamite

Re: D.O.T.. regulations again - 12/17/09 03:23 AM

Do all these DOT regs effect you if you are not comercial and are using a tow dolly on my pickup truck to transport your classic car across state lines (thru Maryland )????

Posted By: jcc

Re: D.O.T.. regulations again - 12/17/09 04:08 AM

I would say no, you are not earning money from or as a result of that transport, correct?

Posted By: dynamite

Re: D.O.T.. regulations again - 12/17/09 01:23 PM

Right, I'm not earning mony from it at all, Just taking my classic to NJ with me for the summer..I really don't like the tow dolly thing and was about to buy an open car trailer when I read this post,, would it matter if I used a trailer rather that the tow dolly ???..Don't need dot fines

Posted By: Anonymous

Post deleted by Defbob - 12/17/09 02:03 PM

Posted By: Outlaw10_5

Re: D.O.T.. regulations again - 12/17/09 07:32 PM

For those of us in FL, I spoke to Lt Morris at the Tallahasee DOT field office today, as well as Debra at the DOT CDL help desk. I now have both their numbers in my ongoing and growing glove box file, lol.

Both of them agreed that as long as this is a hobby, there is no CDL or DOT number needed, and there is no need to stop at a weight station. You are required to stop at the ag station leaving or entering the state. Their definition of it being a hobby is that I do this occasionally for fun and it is not run as a business with deductions for expense. They were both aware of the possibility of prize money.

Debra is actually a racer and laughed at the possibility of me showing a profit like a business would and should.

They both flat out said that my vehicle is an RV, and not subject to DOT CMV compliance.

The conversation was based off of my truck and trailer, a 2005 Dodge dually and a 48' Pace with living quarters. My GVW is 12,200tk and 18,500tr for a CGVW of 30,700. My trailer is not lettered and it is tagged as a trailer, not an RV. Both trailer and truck are registered to me and not a business.

Posted By: Anonymous

Post deleted by Defbob - 12/17/09 08:06 PM

Posted By: Prostock

Re: D.O.T.. regulations again - 12/17/09 08:22 PM

Quote:

Quote:

My GVW is 12,200tk and 18,500tr for a CGVW of 30,700. My trailer is not lettered and it is tagged as a trailer, not an RV

that's the part that confuses ther cops and racers. it comes from the DOT weight regulation of being over 26,000 lb needing a CDL
they skip the part stating
Quote:

except recreational vehicles,

I even registered my dualie for total weight with trailer just to any b/s for groos weight and under tagging that may pop up.

I think PA looks at an RV as something registered as a motorhome. A dually registered as a truck wouldn't count as a recreational vehicle here. If so, Bob wouldn't of had nearly the problems that he did.

Posted By: B G Racing

Re: D.O.T.. regulations again - 12/17/09 08:26 PM

Quote:

Quote:

My GVW is 12,200tk and 18,500tr for a CGVW of 30,700. My trailer is not lettered and it is tagged as a trailer, not an RV

that's the part that confuses ther cops and racers. it comes from the DOT weight regulation of being over 26,000 lb needing a CDL
they skip the part stating
Quote:

except recreational vehicles,

I even registered my dualie for total weight with trailer just to any b/s for groos weight and under tagging that may pop up.

Come to Pa. and get your azz handed to you on pages of a ticket book.Any trailer with GVW of over 9999lbs falls under CDL requirements.They don't care if your hauling Aunt Mary's pie to the local county fair.Any combination that exceeds the titled GVW of the tow vehicle is subject to fines based on the weight exceeding the titled weight.You better hope that the citing officer in a stupid,generous and happy mood.Oh and it's up to his disgression what constitudes a safe amont of flammable liquid being transported other than whats in your fuel tanks:See Pa. placard regulations and thru tunnel travel as well as permissable containers for transport.This crap reads like the 10,000 commandments with Abraham Pife interpeting the laws of Harrisburg

Posted By: GTSDave

Re: D.O.T.. regulations again - 12/17/09 10:30 PM

If that is really the case then that tells me to stay out of PA.

Russ

Would have loved to drag the Cuda up there some day to race and meet with some of you guys in person. Now I just wont chance it.

How could things have gotten so upside down?

-Dave

Posted By: rbstroker

Re: D.O.T.. regulations again - 12/17/09 10:41 PM

In Tennessee, non-commercial trailers are not even tagged. That's right. No tags on my enclosed car hauler, open car hauler, boat trailer, bike trailer, etc. Ask yourself...........how do you prove ownership without any type of registration papers from the state?

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: D.O.T.. regulations again - 12/17/09 10:46 PM

Quote:

If that is really the case then that tells me to stay out of PA.

Russ

Would have loved to drag the Cuda up there some day to race and meet with some of you guys in person. Now I just wont chance it.

How could things have gotten so upside down?

-Dave

Sounds like I'll never race in PA or drive through
it with my rig

Posted By: The Duster

Re: D.O.T.. regulations again - 12/17/09 10:53 PM

Quote:

In Tennessee, non-commercial trailers are not even tagged. That's right. No tags on my enclosed car hauler, open car hauler, boat trailer, bike trailer, etc. Ask yourself...........how do you prove ownership without any type of registration papers from the state?

What happens when you go out of state?

Posted By: B G Racing

Re: D.O.T.. regulations again - 12/17/09 11:10 PM

Quote:

Quote:

In Tennessee, non-commercial trailers are not even tagged. That's right. No tags on my enclosed car hauler, open car hauler, boat trailer, bike trailer, etc. Ask yourself...........how do you prove ownership without any type of registration papers from the state?

What happens when you go out of state?

Well I can tell you this much,they are harder on the Pa.registered rigs more than the out of state guys.I talked to PenDot at Harrisburg this afternoon and our local state representative.Their response was,because of the recent fatalities in Pa. envolving trailers and equipment being towed,they will enforce all the federal and state guidelines for safty,hitchs,safty chains,lights,and properly secured loads.As far weight class stickers,cdls and such they will not enforce local laws on out of state travelers unless it's a blatant violation.It seems they are more interested in forcing Pa.licenced driver to comply to generate more revenues through licence,title and inspection fees.They themselves could not explain the exact interpitation of the laws pretaining to our sport or any sport for that matter that uses trailers.I did learn a monkey can drive a 40' motorcoach(home)with out any restrictions.

I'am requesting our construction company conduct a class on inter and intra state regulations.If I learn anything I will pass it on.

Posted By: Prostock

Re: D.O.T.. regulations again - 12/18/09 12:15 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

My GVW is 12,200tk and 18,500tr for a CGVW of 30,700. My trailer is not lettered and it is tagged as a trailer, not an RV

that's the part that confuses ther cops and racers. it comes from the DOT weight regulation of being over 26,000 lb needing a CDL
they skip the part stating
Quote:

except recreational vehicles,

I even registered my dualie for total weight with trailer just to any b/s for groos weight and under tagging that may pop up.

Come to Pa. and get your azz handed to you on pages of a ticket book.Any trailer with GVW of over 9999lbs falls under CDL requirements.They don't care if your hauling Aunt Mary's pie to the local county fair.Any combination that exceeds the titled GVW of the tow vehicle is subject to fines based on the weight exceeding the titled weight.You better hope that the citing officer in a stupid,generous and happy mood.Oh and it's up to his disgression what constitudes a safe amont of flammable liquid being transported other than whats in your fuel tanks:See Pa. placard regulations and thru tunnel travel as well as permissable containers for transport.This crap reads like the 10,000 commandments with Abraham Pife interpeting the laws of Harrisburg

If that is really the case then that tells me to stay out of PA.

Russ

The weight limit on trailers (it's actually at 10,001lbs that you require a CDL) is a federal law, not state. Call any trailer place and ask them. That is why you will see many trailers rated at 9,999.

The only way around it is to tow with a vehicle registered as a motor home. Then, as Bob said, you can do just about anything that you want.

My brother's RV and trailer are over 33,000lbs. It has air brakes. He needs no special license since it's registered as a motor home.

If you tow with a truck, the limit applies.

Posted By: emarine01

Re: D.O.T.. regulations again - 12/18/09 01:52 AM

One of my customers told me today that if I read the full version of the Patriot Act I would have a much better understanding on all the new laws and the changes to old laws that are taking place, He also said that the DOT laws were a very small part of the changes, Many things are not going to be like they used to be,

Posted By: Challenger 1

Re: D.O.T.. regulations again - 12/18/09 02:14 AM

I did learn a monkey can drive a 40' motorcoach

So true, buy a huge motorhome and your go to go. lol Crazy

Posted By: B1KILLER

Re: D.O.T.. regulations again - 12/18/09 02:32 AM

Quote:

For those of us in FL, I spoke to Lt Morris at the Tallahasee DOT field office today, as well as Debra at the DOT CDL help desk. I now have both their numbers in my ongoing and growing glove box file, lol.

Both of them agreed that as long as this is a hobby, there is no CDL or DOT number needed, and there is no need to stop at a weight station. You are required to stop at the ag station leaving or entering the state. Their definition of it being a hobby is that I do this occasionally for fun and it is not run as a business with deductions for expense. They were both aware of the possibility of prize money.

Debra is actually a racer and laughed at the possibility of me showing a profit like a business would and should.

They both flat out said that my vehicle is an RV, and not subject to DOT CMV compliance.

The conversation was based off of my truck and trailer, a 2005 Dodge dually and a 48' Pace with living quarters. My GVW is 12,200tk and 18,500tr for a CGVW of 30,700. My trailer is not lettered and it is tagged as a trailer, not an RV. Both trailer and truck are registered to me and not a business.

Down here in PBC, I have been given a few, and beat them, once I started to plead no contest, until they told me I had to pay court cost, which added up to $323. I believe they just want to show numbers, so they just write, even if their wrong.

DOT SUCKS

Posted By: ro23car

Re: D.O.T.. regulations again - 12/18/09 04:15 AM

what it comes down to is interpitation from the officer. fed rule ae in place but state to state differ. those with registered rv's are the best ones to have but i did see mich pull over a motorcoach with a car trailer. its a crap shoot no matter how you look at it.

Posted By: jcc

Re: D.O.T.. regulations again - 12/18/09 04:23 AM

Although some may take comfort in the what Fla says are the rules, the problem is Fla is not following the letter of the law, one day they will wake up and do so, be likely just like PA, not that I agree with the law.

We need to be careful in asking for a nationwide DOT level playing field, that would be the very last straw in any "states rights" concept.

Suprised nobody has comment on my very easy suggestion of getting the arbitrary 10,001lb threshold raised to say 17K, would likely help 50% of the trucks on the road, wouldn't me, but it would a lot of others. And then after a couple of years of proof DOT is a waste and hassle raise the threshold again. What special magic occurs at 10,0001lb anyway?

And since the only way change will happen is to contact the lawmakers, anybody fax the committee about mandatory onboard recorders? I did.

Posted By: Anonymous

Post deleted by Defbob - 12/18/09 04:29 AM

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: D.O.T.. regulations again - 12/18/09 05:03 AM

Quote:

just make sure your dualie is tagged for the weight with trailer and not just the truck. it also should be under 26,000 total.not saying you won't get a cop that will write you but if your ever stopped he can't penalize you for under tagging. in NJ they let you choose the weight. I tagged my extended 4x4 at 5500 .for it tolls to cross the bridge into Philly are 4.00 above 7,000 lb(dualies) are 12.00. but a bus only pays 6.00

Thats the problem... here in Mich, I get 1 plate
for my pick up unless you go commercial... then I
have to watch out when going interstate... fortunately
I've never been bothered by the DOT or cops

Posted By: Anonymous

Post deleted by Defbob - 12/18/09 06:14 AM

Posted By: rbstroker

Re: D.O.T.. regulations again - 12/18/09 12:03 PM

Quote:

Quote:

In Tennessee, non-commercial trailers are not even tagged. That's right. No tags on my enclosed car hauler, open car hauler, boat trailer, bike trailer, etc. Ask yourself...........how do you prove ownership without any type of registration papers from the state?

What happens when you go out of state?

Super question. I haven't had any problem yet, but I plan on a trip to Imlay City Michigan next year, and I may be finding out.

Posted By: rbstroker

Re: D.O.T.. regulations again - 12/18/09 12:16 PM

On second thought, after just now hearing on CNN that Michigan is so broke that they will be repairing the roads with gravel instead of ashphalt, I may have to rethink seeing the grandkids with the hot rod.

Posted By: SCDaytona

Re: D.O.T.. regulations again - 12/18/09 01:15 PM

Quote:

just make sure your dualie is tagged for the weight with trailer and not just the truck. it also should be under 26,000 total.not saying you won't get a cop that will write you but if your ever stopped he can't penalize you for under tagging. in NJ they let you choose the weight. I tagged my extended 4x4 at 5500 .for it tolls to cross the bridge into Philly are 4.00 above 7,000 lb(dualies) are 12.00. but a bus only pays 6.00

Fred: My short bed Mega Cab dualie is registered as a combination plate in CT and the GVW is I believe 10,400 lbs. My 28 foot Southwest Expressline trailer is tagged by the manufacuter at 9500 lbs. I have no plans to change the trailer as it keeps me away from the 10,001 weight rule. Also, I talked to the dept. of motor vehicles and there is no way on the registration of my vehicle to add the combination weight. So I guess I need to stay out of Pa. as well.

Posted By: Outlaw10_5

Re: D.O.T.. regulations again - 12/18/09 01:54 PM

Quote:

Although some may take comfort in the what Fla says are the rules, the problem is Fla is not following the letter of the law, one day they will wake up and do so, be likely just like PA, not that I agree with the law.

How do you figure that? My trailer does have living 1/4's. It meets the requirements for an RV. Maybe if it didn't have living 1/4's it would not, but why would you need a 48' trailer to haul a car?

Florida statute 320.01 (b) a recreational vehicle type unit primarily designed as temporary living 1/4's for recreational, camping, or travel use. Recreational vehicle-type units, when traveling on the public roadways of this state, must complly with the length and width provisions of s. 316.515, as that section may hereafter be amended. As defined below, the basic entities are:

(8) The "fith wheel trailer" which is a vehicular unit mounted on wheels, designed to provided temporary living 1/4's for rec, camping, or travel use, of such size and weight as to not require a special highway movement permit, of gross trailer area not to exceed 400 square feet in the setup mode, and designed to be towed by a motorized vehicle that contains a towing mechanism that is mounted above or forward of the tow vehicles rear axle.
*******************************************
My trailer is 384 square feet gross, and while a gooseneck, is towed by the definition of their hitch.

The same officer told me that if I put the same weight behind my truck with a bulldozer that I had better have the proper CDL/DOT stuff.

You may also note that FL has a special provision for race car trailer exemption in 320.01 (26). You guys can look it up, I'm tired of typing, lol.

Posted By: The Duster

Re: D.O.T.. regulations again - 12/18/09 01:56 PM

Is it just me, or should the truck plate cover the weight it carries, and the trailer plate cover it's weight. No adding them together to pay twice for the trailers weight. My

If I'm using common sense, then accept my apologies. If I'm off, then

Posted By: Outlaw10_5

Re: D.O.T.. regulations again - 12/18/09 02:00 PM

I want to add...

FL stat - 322.53 license requirements;exemptions

(2) the following persons are exempt from the requirement to obtain a CDL

(d) the drivers of recreational vehicles as defined in s. 320.01

No CDL = non commercial.

Posted By: Prostock

Re: D.O.T.. regulations again - 12/18/09 02:02 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

In Tennessee, non-commercial trailers are not even tagged. That's right. No tags on my enclosed car hauler, open car hauler, boat trailer, bike trailer, etc. Ask yourself...........how do you prove ownership without any type of registration papers from the state?

What happens when you go out of state?

Super question. I haven't had any problem yet, but I plan on a trip to Imlay City Michigan next year, and I may be finding out.

You have to abide by the laws of the state you are towing through.

Posted By: Outlaw10_5

Re: D.O.T.. regulations again - 12/18/09 02:02 PM

Quote:

Is it just me, or should the truck plate cover the weight it carries, and the trailer plate cover it's weight. No adding them together to pay twice for the trailers weight. My

If I'm using common sense, then accept my apologies. If I'm off, then

In Florida, as long as it's a private truck and not a cab/chassis, that is correct. There is not a weight pull limit on a pickup truck license plate, only a GVW.

Posted By: Prostock

Re: D.O.T.. regulations again - 12/18/09 02:04 PM

Quote:

Is it just me, or should the truck plate cover the weight it carries, and the trailer plate cover it's weight. No adding them together to pay twice for the trailers weight. My

If I'm using common sense, then accept my apologies. If I'm off, then

In PA, if the trailer is over 10,001 the plate of the truck has to cover the weight of both. Its called registering "in combination".

Posted By: Outlaw10_5

Re: D.O.T.. regulations again - 12/18/09 02:05 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

In Tennessee, non-commercial trailers are not even tagged. That's right. No tags on my enclosed car hauler, open car hauler, boat trailer, bike trailer, etc. Ask yourself...........how do you prove ownership without any type of registration papers from the state?

What happens when you go out of state?

Super question. I haven't had any problem yet, but I plan on a trip to Imlay City Michigan next year, and I may be finding out.

You have to abide by the laws of the state you are towing through.

Not completely correct. If that state has no tag, he cannot comply with a state that would require a tag.

Posted By: Prostock

Re: D.O.T.. regulations again - 12/18/09 02:25 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

In Tennessee, non-commercial trailers are not even tagged. That's right. No tags on my enclosed car hauler, open car hauler, boat trailer, bike trailer, etc. Ask yourself...........how do you prove ownership without any type of registration papers from the state?

What happens when you go out of state?

Super question. I haven't had any problem yet, but I plan on a trip to Imlay City Michigan next year, and I may be finding out.

You have to abide by the laws of the state you are towing through.

Not completely correct. If that state has no tag, he cannot comply with a state that would require a tag.

Obviously if his state doesn't issue them he can't bet ticketed for it, but you can be ticketed in PA for things such as dark window tint, even if it is legal in the state you came from.

I remember some years ago all of the pro NHRA teams were stopped at the CA border because CA didn't permit trailers that were either as high as they were, or as long. One or the other.

It took a call from the NHRA president to the governor of CA, threatening to have to cancel the racing events (and tax for the state loss) to have an exemption made.

Those trailers were legal in other states, but not CA (imagine that

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: D.O.T.. regulations again - 12/18/09 03:04 PM

Quote:

Mike you mean the tag weight can't be change from factory specs ?

Fred, I'm assuming when you mean TAG weight that you
are referring to the plate on the truck.... we dont
have a weight on our plates in Mich UNLESS its commercial,
a private pick up uses a regular plate here.... our
trailers have a permanent plate that just says trailer
with the plate number..... again no weight

Posted By: ro23car

Re: D.O.T.. regulations again - 12/18/09 03:56 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Mike you mean the tag weight can't be change from factory specs ?

Fred, I'm assuming when you mean TAG weight that you
are referring to the plate on the truck.... we dont
have a weight on our plates in Mich UNLESS its commercial,
a private pick up uses a regular plate here.... our
trailers have a permanent plate that just says trailer
with the plate number..... again no weight

thats true butmich looks for dually's and will ticket them for weight and or other things such as not properly plated.down here in monroe and up on 94 before you get to marysville the dot cops are rough.

Posted By: B G Racing

Re: D.O.T.. regulations again - 12/18/09 04:05 PM

Don't let your self be lured into a false sence of security because you stay in your own back yard.Up until 3 years ago I never had my trailers state inspected,the fine was so small and usually they never checked.With the economy in dire straits most all local and state enforsment have looked for a multitude of areas to generate revenue.Most of these laws have been on the books but we never enforced.After the two accidents resulting in multipal fatalities the state took a hard look at any thing being towed for the safty concerns.The politicans (Rendal) jumped at the oppertunity to grab money as well as the local enitites.The increase in revenues can be counted in the millions as most people rushed to comply.As the flock of sheep rushed to slaughter,I learned that if you don't tilt your head back and expose your neck to the knife,you can survive.The construction co. has taken to issue any and all tickets and if you produce anything such as the Tow Behind Act of 1977 or any documents that contradicts the violation,usually the enforcment officer and local judge will succumb to thier ignorance and let you off.

Fighting the battles one at a time,waiting for the revolution.

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: D.O.T.. regulations again - 12/18/09 04:23 PM

Quote:

Don't let your self be lured into a false sence of security because you stay in your own back yard.

Bob I usually travel to Ohio, Indiana, Mich and Canada
to race and never been bothered by them so you can
see I dont stay in my "back yard"..... I understand
what you are saying about revenues

Posted By: jcc

Re: D.O.T.. regulations again - 12/18/09 04:34 PM

Quote:

For those of us in FL, I spoke to Lt Morris at the Tallahasee DOT field office today, as well as Debra at the DOT CDL help desk. I now have both their numbers in my ongoing and growing glove box file, lol.

Both of them agreed that as long as this is a hobby, there is no CDL or DOT number needed, and there is no need to stop at a weight station. You are required to stop at the ag station leaving or entering the state. Their definition of it being a hobby is that I do this occasionally for fun and it is not run as a business with deductions for expense. They were both aware of the possibility of prize money.

Debra is actually a racer and laughed at the possibility of me showing a profit like a business would and should.

They both flat out said that my vehicle is an RV, and not subject to DOT CMV compliance.

The conversation was based off of my truck and trailer, a 2005 Dodge dually and a 48' Pace with living quarters. My GVW is 12,200tk and 18,500tr for a CGVW of 30,700. My trailer is not lettered and it is tagged as a trailer, not an RV. Both trailer and truck are registered to me and not a business.

I mentioned awhile back about Fla not following the letter of the law (meaning Fed DOT) and expected to get slammed and did. I think if you read what the Fla DOT guy said, and what the FED DOt guy said, someone is not following the letter of the law, And none of them know it well anyway, nor sounds like they care (for instance, I can't believe the FED Dot Guy isn't aware of the uproar on this topic), and the states are constantly moving towards a federal understanding of the rules, so the often quoted state exemptions are nice and currently on the books and real, but I would guess they will constantly change the defintions (rather then the laws, ie what exactly is an RV anyway?, and I mentioned a couple of years back I would install a frig, a mattress, a chemical toilet and a bucket of soap and water in the back of a straight truck, call it an RV,and a fellow moparts leo said he would cite me and haul me off

) until they get whatever it is they want or make a nationwide standard ( since nothing jives, and I saw a $387,000 very nice "RV" at the recent PRI show that had a low mount 5th wheel for a monstrous trailer, asked the salesman, what that did to the RV vs CMV requirements, he gave me the typical "dog look" )which will only be stricter, not looser.

Posted By: Outlaw10_5

Re: D.O.T.. regulations again - 12/18/09 09:08 PM

[quote ie what exactly is an RV anyway?, and I mentioned a couple of years back I would install a frig, a mattress, a chemical toilet and a bucket of soap and water in the back of a straight truck, call it an RV,and a fellow moparts leo said he would cite me and haul me off

I assume you are from FL, so here you go...
CDL exemptions...
statute 322.53 (e) say that drivers who operate straight trucks, as defined in s316.003, that are exclusively transporting their own tangable personal property which is not for sale
S316.003(70) defines a straight truck as - any truck on which the cargo unit and the motive power unit are located on the same frame so as to form a single, rigid unit.

So, what exactly is he hauling you away for?

What statute?

Posted By: Outlaw10_5

Re: D.O.T.. regulations again - 12/18/09 09:11 PM

And since you asked...

(b) A recreational vehicle-type unit primarily designed as temporary living quarters for recreational, camping, or travel use, which either has its own motive power or is mounted on or drawn by another vehicle. Recreational vehicle-type units, when traveling on the public roadways of this state, must comply with the length and width provisions of s. 316.515, as that section may hereafter be amended. As defined below, the basic entities are:

1. The "travel trailer," which is a vehicular portable unit, mounted on wheels, of such a size or weight as not to require special highway movement permits when drawn by a motorized vehicle. It is primarily designed and constructed to provide temporary living quarters for recreational, camping, or travel use. It has a body width of no more than 81/2 feet and an overall body length of no more than 40 feet when factory-equipped for the road.

2. The "camping trailer," which is a vehicular portable unit mounted on wheels and constructed with collapsible partial sidewalls which fold for towing by another vehicle and unfold at the campsite to provide temporary living quarters for recreational, camping, or travel use.

3. The "truck camper," which is a truck equipped with a portable unit designed to be loaded onto, or affixed to, the bed or chassis of the truck and constructed to provide temporary living quarters for recreational, camping, or travel use.

4. The "motor home," which is a vehicular unit which does not exceed the length, height, and width limitations provided in s. 316.515, is a self-propelled motor vehicle, and is primarily designed to provide temporary living quarters for recreational, camping, or travel use.

5. The "private motor coach," which is a vehicular unit which does not exceed the length, width, and height limitations provided in s. 316.515(9), is built on a self-propelled bus type chassis having no fewer than three load-bearing axles, and is primarily designed to provide temporary living quarters for recreational, camping, or travel use.

6. The "van conversion," which is a vehicular unit which does not exceed the length and width limitations provided in s. 316.515, is built on a self-propelled motor vehicle chassis, and is designed for recreation, camping, and travel use.

7. The "park trailer," which is a transportable unit which has a body width not exceeding 14 feet and which is built on a single chassis and is designed to provide seasonal or temporary living quarters when connected to utilities necessary for operation of installed fixtures and appliances. The total area of the unit in a setup mode, when measured from the exterior surface of the exterior stud walls at the level of maximum dimensions, not including any bay window, does not exceed 400 square feet when constructed to ANSI A-119.5 standards, and 500 square feet when constructed to United States Department of Housing and Urban Development Standards. The length of a park trailer means the distance from the exterior of the front of the body (nearest to the drawbar and coupling mechanism) to the exterior of the rear of the body (at the opposite end of the body), including any protrusions.

8. The "fifth-wheel trailer," which is a vehicular unit mounted on wheels, designed to provide temporary living quarters for recreational, camping, or travel use, of such size or weight as not to require a special highway movement permit, of gross trailer area not to exceed 400 square feet in the setup mode, and designed to be towed by a motorized vehicle that contains a towing mechanism that is mounted above or forward of the tow vehicle's rear axle.

Posted By: 69 Road Runner

Re: D.O.T.. regulations again - 12/20/09 02:20 AM

There are reciprocity laws that apply to some of this. As my brother mentioned, I have a motorhome with a 32,000 GVWR and 42,000 GCWR. It has air brakes.

In Virginia, you do not need any special license for any RV. None are even available. You can get a CDL, but the "C" is for commercial and RVs aren't commercial (unless you're paid to drive/deliver the RV).

Some states will require a Class A, B, C etc. non-CDL based on the weight rating of the RV.

It is impossible for me to get that type of license as a Virginia resident.

Posted By: jcc

Re: D.O.T.. regulations again - 12/20/09 04:46 AM

I heard today the NJ Senator Frank Lautenberg bill to phase in costly full time CMV trip recorders was withdrawn in his committee with no vote. I suspect it will return. Why is it a Senator from one of the smallest states has so much power over so many other larger state highway systems? Hey, NJ, throw that guy out please.

Quote:

EOBRs and REAL TIME TRACKING OF TRUCKERS

SENATOR BILL NELSON, one of your lawmakers in the U.S. Senate, serves on the Senate Commerce, Science and Transportation committee. On Thursday morning (12/17) the Commerce committee will be voting on S.554, the �Motor Coach Enhanced Safety Act.�

Senator Frank Lautenberg (NJ) plans to offer an amendment to S.554 that will require all trucks to have Electronic Onboard Recorders (EOBRs) installed and will require �real time tracking� of drivers and vehicles.

While we believe Senator Lautenberg has noble intentions, the amendment will not bring the safety benefits that he envisions and will actually create numerous problems. His amendment will be costly, especially for small business, and it brings up numerous privacy concerns for America�s truckers.

Please call and/or fax Senator Nelson TODAY and tell him to �vote �No� on the Lautenberg amendment to S.554.�

----------------------

Posted By: Anonymous

Post deleted by Defbob - 12/20/09 05:02 AM

Posted By: GTSDave

Re: D.O.T.. regulations again - 12/20/09 05:18 AM

-Dave

Posted By: jcc

Re: D.O.T.. regulations again - 12/20/09 12:03 PM

I'll give you a big amen first, but that last comment will likely kill your IMO important and imformative thread. Consider a little edit?

Posted By: B1KILLER

Re: D.O.T.. regulations again - 12/20/09 01:14 PM

Quote:

Ole Frank belongs on the hit list

Quote:

2010 - DO NOT FORGET

Your U.S. House & Senate have voted themselves $4,700 and $5,300 raises.
1. They voted to not give you a S.S. cost of living raise in 2010 and 2011.
2. Your Medicare premiums will go up $285.60 for the 2-years and
you will not get the 3% COLA: $660/yr. Your total 2-yr loss and cost is
-$1,600 or -$3,200 for husband and wife.
3. Over 2-yrs they each get $10,000
4. Do you feel SCREWED?
5. Will they have your cost of drugs - doctor fees - local taxes - food, etc., increase?
NO WAY . They have a raise and better benefits. Why care about you? You never did anything about it in the past. You obviously are too stupid or don't care.
6. Do you really think that Nancy, Harry, Chris, Charlie, Barnie, et al, care about you? SEND THE MESSAGE-- You're FIRED.
IN 2010 YOU WILL HAVE A CHANCE TO GET RID OF THE SITTING CONGRESS:
Up to 1/3 OF THE SENATE, AND 100% OF THE HOUSE.
MAKE SURE YOU'RE STILL MAD IN NOVEMBER 2010 AND REMIND THEIR REPLACEMENTS NOT TO SCREW UP.
It is ok to forward this to your sphere of influence if you are finally tired of the abuse

If you don't vote, you have no right to complain,
cut away @ the fat

Posted By: ro23car

Re: D.O.T.. regulations again - 12/20/09 02:22 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Ole Frank belongs on the hit list

Quote:

2010 - DO NOT FORGET

Your U.S. House & Senate have voted themselves $4,700 and $5,300 raises.
1. They voted to not give you a S.S. cost of living raise in 2010 and 2011.
2. Your Medicare premiums will go up $285.60 for the 2-years and
you will not get the 3% COLA: $660/yr. Your total 2-yr loss and cost is
-$1,600 or -$3,200 for husband and wife.
3. Over 2-yrs they each get $10,000
4. Do you feel SCREWED?
5. Will they have your cost of drugs - doctor fees - local taxes - food, etc., increase?
NO WAY . They have a raise and better benefits. Why care about you? You never did anything about it in the past. You obviously are too stupid or don't care.
6. Do you really think that Nancy, Harry, Chris, Charlie, Barnie, et al, care about you? SEND THE MESSAGE-- You're FIRED.
IN 2010 YOU WILL HAVE A CHANCE TO GET RID OF THE SITTING CONGRESS:
Up to 1/3 OF THE SENATE, AND 100% OF THE HOUSE.
MAKE SURE YOU'RE STILL MAD IN NOVEMBER 2010 AND REMIND THEIR REPLACEMENTS NOT TO SCREW UP.
It is ok to forward this to your sphere of influence if you are finally tired of the abuse

If you don't vote, you have no right to complain,
cut away @ the fat

everyone has a right to complain. its called freedom of speech

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: D.O.T.. regulations again - 12/20/09 03:18 PM

Lets TRY to stay away from the political aspect guys
thank you

Posted By: aarlucas

Re: D.O.T.. regulations again - 12/20/09 09:19 PM

Quote:

In Florida, as long as it's a private truck and not a cab/chassis, that is correct. There is not a weight pull limit on a pickup truck license plate, only a GVW.

That's interesting. I live in Kissimmee and they told me I have to register the truck and the trailer combined weight together on my truck tag. So my truck is registered as a combined GVW of 19,999. That is for my truck a 2005 Ram 3500 DRW and a 24' enclosed trailer. If you could tell me where to find the info you have showing other wise it would sure lower my registration fees a lot!

Posted By: dusturbd340W5

Re: D.O.T.. regulations again - 12/20/09 10:40 PM

Quote:

Quote:

In Florida, as long as it's a private truck and not a cab/chassis, that is correct. There is not a weight pull limit on a pickup truck license plate, only a GVW.

That's interesting. I live in Kissimmee and they told me I have to register the truck and the trailer combined weight together on my truck tag. So my truck is registered as a combined GVW of 19,999. That is for my truck a 2005 Ram 3500 DRW and a 24' enclosed trailer. If you could tell me where to find the info you have showing other wise it would sure lower my registration fees a lot!

see here is the problem you get a different answer from every one you speak to I was told from the tag office that the tag only had include the weight of the truck and cargo in it and in the bed not a trailer that is hooked to the bumper but I have mine tagged at 26000 because I also have a 5th wheel RV.

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: D.O.T.. regulations again - 12/21/09 02:57 PM

Do not confuse your states DMV rules with that of the DOT.You have to conform to DOT which is Federal.I would think that the feds overrule the state.

Posted By: ro23car

Re: D.O.T.. regulations again - 12/21/09 03:36 PM

you have to conform to both state and fed regulations.

Posted By: Locomotion

Re: D.O.T.. regulations again - 12/21/09 04:03 PM

Quote:

Quote:

In Florida, as long as it's a private truck and not a cab/chassis, that is correct. There is not a weight pull limit on a pickup truck license plate, only a GVW.

That's interesting. I live in Kissimmee and they told me I have to register the truck and the trailer combined weight together on my truck tag. So my truck is registered as a combined GVW of 19,999. That is for my truck a 2005 Ram 3500 DRW and a 24' enclosed trailer. If you could tell me where to find the info you have showing other wise it would sure lower my registration fees a lot!

Same thing here in Daytona. I was told to tag for combined weight of truck and trailer. Trailer tag is based on registered manufactured weight. So I also got one for 19,999. It's "private", but it falls into the truck category that has its registration renewal in December instead of your birthday.

For reference: 2004.4 diesel dually, 60 gal. aux tank (full), topper w/load of tires, parts & tools, 26' Pace trailer w/dual 6,000 axles, cabinets, 3,360 lb race car, spare trans, rear & fuel. Came in at between 19 & 20 with the weight split pretty close when I weighed at a truck stop a few years ago.

I just realized....Is that double-taxation? Trailer is tagged for manufactured weight, then truck is tagged for overall total weight INCLUDING the trailer!

Posted By: Prostock

Re: D.O.T.. regulations again - 12/21/09 06:41 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

In Florida, as long as it's a private truck and not a cab/chassis, that is correct. There is not a weight pull limit on a pickup truck license plate, only a GVW.

That's interesting. I live in Kissimmee and they told me I have to register the truck and the trailer combined weight together on my truck tag. So my truck is registered as a combined GVW of 19,999. That is for my truck a 2005 Ram 3500 DRW and a 24' enclosed trailer. If you could tell me where to find the info you have showing other wise it would sure lower my registration fees a lot!

Same thing here in Daytona. I was told to tag for combined weight of truck and trailer. Trailer tag is based on registered manufactured weight. So I also got one for 19,999. It's "private", but it falls into the truck category that has its registration renewal in December instead of your birthday.

For reference: 2004.4 diesel dually, 60 gal. aux tank (full), topper w/load of tires, parts & tools, 26' Pace trailer w/dual 6,000 axles, cabinets, 3,360 lb race car, spare trans, rear & fuel. Came in at between 19 & 20 with the weight split pretty close when I weighed at a truck stop a few years ago.

I just realized....Is that double-taxation? Trailer is tagged for manufactured weight, then truck is tagged for overall total weight INCLUDING the trailer!

Its not a tax, its a fee!

Posted By: Locomotion

Re: D.O.T.. regulations again - 12/21/09 07:59 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

In Florida, as long as it's a private truck and not a cab/chassis, that is correct. There is not a weight pull limit on a pickup truck license plate, only a GVW.

That's interesting. I live in Kissimmee and they told me I have to register the truck and the trailer combined weight together on my truck tag. So my truck is registered as a combined GVW of 19,999. That is for my truck a 2005 Ram 3500 DRW and a 24' enclosed trailer. If you could tell me where to find the info you have showing other wise it would sure lower my registration fees a lot!

Same thing here in Daytona. I was told to tag for combined weight of truck and trailer. Trailer tag is based on registered manufactured weight. So I also got one for 19,999. It's "private", but it falls into the truck category that has its registration renewal in December instead of your birthday.

For reference: 2004.4 diesel dually, 60 gal. aux tank (full), topper w/load of tires, parts & tools, 26' Pace trailer w/dual 6,000 axles, cabinets, 3,360 lb race car, spare trans, rear & fuel. Came in at between 19 & 20 with the weight split pretty close when I weighed at a truck stop a few years ago.

I just realized....Is that double-taxation? Trailer is tagged for manufactured weight, then truck is tagged for overall total weight INCLUDING the trailer!

Its not a tax, its a fee!

Ok, "double-feed"?

Posted By: jcc

Re: D.O.T.. regulations again - 12/24/09 10:28 PM

I am mainly involved with intrastate commerce. However I stumbled today on a "UCR" requirement I was not aware of, that does not apply to my state. It has been on the books for the past few years. No one hase mentioned it yet. They will back charge you for non compliance as I read it. It only applies to 41? states with any 10,000lb+ CMV crossing any state lines. The another nail in the coffin can be found on page #21 Question #6 IMO.

Under "Enforcement Questions"

6. A private carrier is transporting property across state lines in a one ton truck greater than 10,001 GVWR. They have never been registered with USDOT and have no USDOT number. The carrier is not registered under UCR. Should a violation be listed on this inspection report for no UCR registration?

Violation to carrier for no UCR. Refer to L1 of the Q&A.

Attached File

5688031-UCRQandADoc3-05-09UCRRequirements.doc (120 downloads)

Posted By: DakFink

Re: D.O.T.. regulations again - 12/27/09 01:42 PM

http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/cve/cdlmain.htm

Texas makes it a lot easier for us Dummies!!
If you can answer Yes/ No questions and click a mouse they can tell you if you need a cdl or not.

As for RV exempt?? This link doesn't apply.

Posted By: Locomotion

Re: D.O.T.. regulations again - 12/27/09 02:25 PM

Now why can't all states and the DOT have something as easy and simple as this?

Oh, I forgot.....government normally doesn't = common sense, fairness and simplicity!

Posted By: emarine01

Re: D.O.T.. regulations again - 12/27/09 03:02 PM

Quote:

Now why can't all states and the DOT have something as easy and simple as this?

Oh, I forgot.....government normally doesn't = common sense, fairness and simplicity!

Looks like they slipped that one past the Texas lawyers

< The little fella to the left is a Texas lawer, and he is pissed>

Posted By: DakFink

Re: D.O.T.. regulations again - 12/27/09 03:04 PM

OK!!

Let me start by saying I am IGNORANT on this subject and looking to update and learn, as I do want to get a GooseNeck to pull behind my 3500 IF I CAN.

So anything I say or state I know may be outdated and feel more than free to correct me. Try to give links to DOT/FMCSA regs if possible.

My understanding, following TX Dummie examples is this.

If you are under 26001lb single or combined you do not need a CDL.

But you can exceed 26001lb combined so long as the trailer does not exceed 10000lbs.

My cousin who is a Career Trucker told me years ago that the purpose of FMCSA was to standardize the rules and regs for CDL/Commercial from state to state and that no state could change or Alter them. In short making the rules the same State - State. Also he said that DOT Enforcement was just Federal Enforcement (FMCSA) paid by the state.???????

To me that would mean that there should be no state to state deviation for Comm/CDL Vehicles.

Now as far as non-Comm/CDL. Each state can do as they please.

DOT Numbers: I was always told you only need that to Haul for Hire or Commerce as they state it now. I know a lot of HotShots used to use their Contracting Companies DOT Number and run under their authority. They did state that even if is was a Mini-Truck if you were Hauling for Hire you have to have a DOT Number to run under.??????

Far as using a Commercial Registered Vehicle for Private use (go to Wal-Mart after getting back home from a Long Run). The way it was explained to me, That was fine as long as you still logged the mileage.?????

I see some of the links stating that you have to register a Vehicle a certain way if it meets certain criteria. OK you can go tell each state how they need to do their registration if you want. I know they will laugh you out the door. Unless it is being registered as a Commercial Vehicle then they have to follow FMCSA regs?? Right??

In TX my 3500 4x4 quad cab has the GVWR on the registration but carries a standard license plate. They still charge you extra if you exceed a certain GVWR. They go by the Factory specs.

Here in Tx you can pull Tandems with-out a CDL as long as you don't exceed the 26001Lb Limit. BUT they also tell you that is only in TX. They don't know about other places.

The way it was explained by one Trucking web page is that you can not exceed the 26001lbs with the Factory Specs of the puller and trailer without a CDL,even if you never pull 1/2 that. If the equipment can haul more than 26001lbs you have to have a CDL...

Far as the NOT FOR HIRE, as was stated?? doesn't do much for you. Many recommend it but say it doesn't do anything for you if they do decide to pull you over.???

My 2004 Ram 4x4 3500 CTD is rated a GVWR of 11,000lbs and 23,000 GCWR.

Let me see if I can get this straight?? Everyone I have talked to,says that if you get pulled over and they weigh your truck 1 axle at a time they check each axle rating and add it up. As long as you don't exceed the axle rating on each axle your good to go. So that tells me the GCWR really doesn't apply?? Cause if you know how to load a 15,000 trailer and keep the load directly on the truck to below 11,000lbs your still in compliance with each individually??? As far as GVWR?????

So?? Does the GCWR from Dodge ever come into play? If so then I could never tow anything more than 23,000lbs Gross. 11,000truck and 12,000 trailer

Posted By: DakFink

Re: D.O.T.. regulations again - 12/27/09 03:10 PM

That's about the only thing in Texas, Gov't related that is some what simple and painless.

I think it has to do with the fact there is a lot of Farmer Influences here.

Posted By: hemi-itis

Re: D.O.T.. regulations again - 12/27/09 03:18 PM

Quote:

Now why can't all states and the DOT have something as easy and simple as this?

Oh, I forgot.....government normally doesn't = common sense, fairness and simplicity!

Myron,seek,,,,,,,and you shall find,,,,,,,,http://www.flhsmv.gov/ddl/cdl.html,,,,,,,

Posted By: jcc

Re: D.O.T.. regulations again - 12/27/09 06:12 PM

Quote:

http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/cve/cdlmain.htm

Texas makes it a lot easier for us Dummies!!
If you can answer Yes/ No questions and click a mouse they can tell you if you need a cdl or not.

As for RV exempt?? This link doesn't apply.

First that is only for Texas CDL, and the mutli question process does not address CMV, and it seems contrary to most other states & Fed DOT rules. It's cute but I do't think accurate nor complete, of course this is a common problem and why no one seems to be able to figure it all out.
The first blaring "mistake" is it asks you if combination, then over or under 26K, but it if under it never asks if you are hauling a 10K trailer (CDL "A"), and it never asks if your are involved with commerce. Seems to mislead more then answer.

Posted By: B G Racing

Re: D.O.T.. regulations again - 12/27/09 10:13 PM

We decided after my runin with DOT inspecters in Pa. to follow the requirements of the federal and state mandates.We have plated my 3500 daully for GVCW as recommended by the manufacture for 23,000,a #8 classification(was plated for 11,000#) in Pa.,my trailer is a tri-axle gooseneck and is subject to bi-annual inspection(over 10,000#GVW)It is plated for 16,000#I drive tractor trailers and certify my drivers as well,so I maintain a CDL licence and medical card.I don't know what else they could possibably require.The licence I carry is for any gross combo of 80,000#,tanker,dbl,triples,and the only thing I don't have is Hazmat,I gave that endorsment up after all the regulations following 9/11.

Posted By: B1KILLER

Re: D.O.T.. regulations again - 12/27/09 10:34 PM

I think this year "2010" I will go out and get my CDL, I
have been flying under the radar for a long time.
DOT, is out with a vengeance, it was funny when
FHP came to do their annual inspection, and they
realized I didn't have my CDL. He kind of got on
my a$$. So the cat is out of the bag, now must take
out the time to do so.

Posted By: goldenlancer

Re: D.O.T.. regulations again - 12/27/09 11:21 PM

is there any regulations for motor homes pulling a trailer? I have a class A with air brakes. and a good medical. do I have to keep a log? what about gross weight?

Posted By: B G Racing

Re: D.O.T.. regulations again - 12/27/09 11:44 PM

Quote:

is there any regulations for motor homes pulling a trailer? I have a class A with air brakes. and a good medical. do I have to keep a log? what about gross weight?

Bill,with your cridentials as a truck driver you should not have any problems.Having a motor home gives you a licence to kill.

Posted By: goldenlancer

Re: D.O.T.. regulations again - 12/27/09 11:46 PM

Bob is it like hauling IRON?

Posted By: B G Racing

Re: D.O.T.. regulations again - 12/28/09 12:04 AM

Bill we are both old "Road Warriors"You with your steel and me hauling all those "Heavy Iron"Construction equipment permit loads"Untill you have pulled Laural Summit grossing 150,000# or roll off 3Mile hill at Lauralville at 125,000,with no brakes or jake,just your wit and big balls,we can keep our "Braggen Rights"

One of these days I'am going to stop doing this crap and reflect on why I'am still alive.

Posted By: jcc

Re: D.O.T.. regulations again - 12/28/09 12:38 AM

Quote:

so I maintain a CDL licence and medical card.I don't know what else they could possibably require.

A few other things such as proof of:
1. Random Drug Tests
2. 2? yrs of Drivers Hour/work/driving logs
3. DOT numbers for all vehicles
4. Daily written Safety Pre trip reports
5. Maintenence records
6. Driver license driving record checks
7. Annual driver safety instruction records
8. Adequate Insurance compliance
9. 41 State "UCR" registration
10 DOT truck inspections
10. Submit to radom safety audits and truck inspections to confirm all of above

Posted By: DakFink

Re: D.O.T.. regulations again - 12/28/09 11:31 AM

BUT where does everyone seem to miss this part of FMCSA's purpose.

COMMERCIAL MOTOR VEHICLE SAFETY ACT OF 1986

The Commercial Motor Vehicle Safety Act of 1986 was signed into law on October 27, 1986. The goal of the Act is to improve highway safety by ensuring that drivers of large trucks and buses are qualified to operate those vehicles and to remove unsafe and unqualified drivers from the highways. The Act retained the State's right to issue a driver's license, but established minimum national standards which States must meet when licensing CMV drivers.

The Act corrects the situation that existed prior to 1986 by making it illegal to hold more than one license and by requiring States to adopt testing and licensing standards for truck and bus drivers to check a person's ability to operate the type of vehicle he/she plans to operate.

It is important to note that the Act does not require drivers to obtain a separate Federal license; it merely requires States to upgrade their existing testing and licensing programs, if necessary, to conform with the Federal minimum standards.

The CDL program places requirements on the CMV driver, the employing motor carrier and the States.

In short that states that all states have to meet a Minimum standard. If they are more stringent so be it!!

If they have adapted it the way it is. Then there isn't much INTERPRETATION to it.

Now that I got that straight!! I do need a CDL to pull any trailer greater than 10,000lbs GVWR. Now I am going to look at the Vehicle Registration Aspect!?

I think that is where it gets confusing BUT seems to be simple to me. IF what I was told is correct. Stay within the GVWR for each axle of the Combination and you will be good. You exceed the Equipments Factory Ratings, NO Matter how it is Registered then you still fail??

I'm going to look this one up both on the Registration and Exceeding Factory Set Rating for the Puller and Trailer.

Posted By: jcc

Re: D.O.T.. regulations again - 12/28/09 11:57 AM

Quote:

BUT where does everyone seem to miss this part of FMCSA's purpose.

COMMERCIAL MOTOR VEHICLE SAFETY ACT OF 1986

The Commercial Motor Vehicle Safety Act of 1986 was signed into law on October 27, 1986. The goal of the Act is to improve highway safety by ensuring that drivers of large trucks and buses are qualified to operate those vehicles and to remove unsafe and unqualified drivers from the highways. The Act retained the State's right to issue a driver's license, but established minimum national standards which States must meet when licensing CMV drivers.

The Act corrects the situation that existed prior to 1986 by making it illegal to hold more than one license and by requiring States to adopt testing and licensing standards for truck and bus drivers to check a person's ability to operate the type of vehicle he/she plans to operate.

It is important to note that the Act does not require drivers to obtain a separate Federal license; it merely requires States to upgrade their existing testing and licensing programs, if necessary, to conform with the Federal minimum standards.

The CDL program places requirements on the CMV driver, the employing motor carrier and the States.

In short that states that all states have to meet a Minimum standard. If they are more stringent so be it!!

If they have adapted it the way it is. Then there isn't much INTERPRETATION to it.

Now that I got that straight!! I do need a CDL to pull any trailer greater than 10,000lbs GVWR. Now I am going to look at the Vehicle Registration Aspect!?

I think that is where it gets confusing BUT seems to be simple to me. IF what I was told is correct. Stay within the GVWR for each axle of the Combination and you will be good. You exceed the Equipments Factory Ratings, NO Matter how it is Registered then you still fail??

I'm going to look this one up both on the Registration and Exceeding Factory Set Rating for the Puller and Trailer.

This is what I miss, why is it nearly 24 years later such a "worthy" cause still is being figured out, why is it "large trucks" to the public is now considered 10,000+lbs, how is it that an annual random drug test is supposed to remove a drug using driver off the road for safety, it should be weekly if that was the true goal, and there already were plenty of laws in place prior to 1986 regarding mulitple DL, and qualifications for driving a CMV . Just smoke and mirror knee jerk passing more laws by the uninformed lawmakers with no regard to the consequences, IMO

Posted By: jcc

Re: D.O.T.. regulations again - 12/28/09 12:33 PM

And another little hidden golden nugget to this whole CDL mess that has been seldom mentioned, In Fla, Nebraska (ask me how I know), and I assume many other states, you are allowed to take a driving school in lieu of having a conviction/points entered on your driving record for minor non accident offenses, like speeding under 15mph over the limit,etc. However if you HAVE a CDL, no matter WHAT you were driving, whether on personal time or not, no matter where you are at, NO driving school, & full recording of points, no exceptions. Now with your CDL staus and new and improved commercial insurance rates, the points sure take on a nice new meaning.

Posted By: B G Racing

Re: D.O.T.. regulations again - 12/28/09 12:57 PM

Quote:

And another little hidden golden nugget to this whole CDL mess that has been seldom mentioned, In Fla, Nebraska (ask me how I know), and I assume many other states, you are allowed to take a driving school in lieu of having a conviction/points entered on your driving record for minor non accident offenses, like speeding under 15mph over the limit,etc. However if you HAVE a CDL, no matter WHAT you were driving, whether on personal time or not, no matter where you are at, NO driving school, & full recording of points, no exceptions. Now with your CDL staus and new and improved commercial insurance rates, the points sure take on a nice new meaning.

Adding to this,in Pa. fines and points double if you have a CDL licence.

Posted By: DakFink

Re: D.O.T.. regulations again - 12/28/09 03:23 PM

OK here is another Monkey Wrench in the whole mix.

Just saw where a Guy got his Class-B license, and stated that it is a Class-B and not a CDL Class-B.

He also stated that there is a Difference in a CDL and a non CDL even though they are all Class-A or B and allow for the same weight limits??

I am definitely going to do some research on that 1.

Posted By: DakFink

Re: D.O.T.. regulations again - 12/28/09 03:41 PM

I think I maybe see where a lot of people are confused and I may still be myself. It appears to me too many are trying to criss-cross all the aspects of Licensing, Vehicle registration and DOT registration which all seem to be separate BUT related subjects.
I'll see if I can break it down and maybe simplify it?

1: CDL- Driver's License (this is the licensing of the Individual)

2: Vehicle Registrattion: This is the Registration and Licensing of the Vehicle to get your Plates/Tags within your state. I have yet to find anywhere that anyone but the State you Lic/Reg with regulates how your Plates should read. There is nothing on the FMCSA web-page at all about it.

3: USDOT # : Number required if you operate your vehicle as business. There are some states that require it for ANY vehicle Registered as a Commercial Motor Vehicle. SEE #2 above

4: Operating Authority: Not 100% on this but know it is separate from a USDOT # but related at the same time.

I still haven't gotten it all worked out for my own situation, but I have found that if I try to handle each aspect individual as possible it is a lot less confusing.

Posted By: DakFink

Re: D.O.T.. regulations again - 12/28/09 04:40 PM

Quote:

OK here is another Monkey Wrench in the whole mix.

Just saw where a Guy got his Class-B license, and stated that it is a Class-B and not a CDL Class-B.

He also stated that there is a Difference in a CDL and a non CDL even though they are all Class-A or B and allow for the same weight limits??

I am definitely going to do some research on that 1.

Apparently there is some legitimacy to this statement. Tx does do this.

http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/ftp/forms/DLhandbook.pdf

See page 7 or 1-4 of the above PDF.

The guy that brought it to my attention was also from somewhere up North so that is 2 states that do it.

From what I gather you will get a Class-A license BUT it will NOT have COMMERCIAL DRIVERS LICENSE printed on it which is required for a CDL.

Posted By: DakFink

Re: D.O.T.. regulations again - 12/28/09 07:12 PM

Well it looks like the Class-A only applies if you are a Farmer or using a Recreational Vehicle.

I did find that a Motorhome and Recreational Vehicle are 2 different entities.

Motorhome has to have it's own Power Unit.
Recreational Vehicle can be towed.

Both must have living quarters that meet certain guidelines, but appear to be the same for both.

Posted By: nhramark

Re: D.O.T.. regulations again - 12/28/09 09:58 PM

Quote:

Quote:

And another little hidden golden nugget to this whole CDL mess that has been seldom mentioned, In Fla, Nebraska (ask me how I know), and I assume many other states, you are allowed to take a driving school in lieu of having a conviction/points entered on your driving record for minor non accident offenses, like speeding under 15mph over the limit,etc. However if you HAVE a CDL, no matter WHAT you were driving, whether on personal time or not, no matter where you are at, NO driving school, & full recording of points, no exceptions. Now with your CDL staus and new and improved commercial insurance rates, the points sure take on a nice new meaning.

Adding to this,in Pa. fines and points double if you have a CDL licence.

So true! A guy I worked with got a dwi on a Saturday night a couple years ago. Because he had a CDL, he lost his license, (and therefore his job) for 1 year. No negotiating, no leniency for 1st time offense, 1 full year.

Then just to pour salt in his wounds after his year off, he was required to RE-TAKE the ENTIRE CDL licensing process to get his license back. This includes having to rent a truck to perform the required 'walk around' and driving portion of the testing. This for a guy who was originally 'grandfathered' into the driving portion of his original CDL because he was already working his job when DOT enacted the CDL idea.

Keep in this in mind too: his dwi infraction was off the clock, in his own vehicle. Not exactly my idea of "fair and equal treatment under the law."

Because it is now illegal to have more than one license, if you decide to get a CDL to tow your rig, you could find yourself walking to your day job if you mess up with DOT.

..........

Posted By: goldenlancer

Re: D.O.T.. regulations again - 12/28/09 10:34 PM

Bob with all the trucking we have between us there is always away around all this mess. around the coups and DOT just don't get caught.

Posted By: B G Racing

Re: D.O.T.. regulations again - 12/28/09 11:03 PM

Quote:

Bob with all the trucking we have between us there is always away around all this mess. around the coups and DOT just don't get caught.

Bill,you know me ,locally ,I just pull right in,tell them"I'am BG and I'll do what ever I want,give me the ticket

and while they are busting me,5 more BGR trailer fly by the scales

The last big ticket at I-79,the local magistrate dismissed it and told me "Thanks for keeping Britt #1 in our division and #8 in the country"obviously a Mizia Racing and dragrace fan.The last big fine in one of the big tri axle tractor and triaxle lowboys was $11,500 at New Stanton.The magistrate ask me why a State senator and local legislator had interest in it,I told him I needed all the help I could get

reduced to $1500

Got busted with the triaxle dump on a Saturady morning awhile back,handed the DOT insp. my load ticket for 85,000# was only legal for 73,280#.He said"boy you got a lot of balls,don't you have another ticket?"I said "No sir,my first load for today"He says how do you want it(the ticket) on gross or axle weight? I said which is cheaper.He said go to the ramp and make this load legal.

I said ok,how?He said keep an eye on me I get real busy here.

There's a lot more

Posted By: hemi-itis

Re: D.O.T.. regulations again - 12/29/09 12:35 AM

BG,you soundin' like a connected NY politition

Posted By: rowin4

Re: D.O.T.. regulations again - 12/29/09 12:54 AM

BG , I hope none of those fellows read these post!! You'll be setting in the pokey next time.

Posted By: hemi-itis

Re: D.O.T.. regulations again - 12/29/09 01:15 AM

This was found on the New York DMV Website::EXEMPTIONS
Drivers of the following vehicles that otherwise meet the definition of a CMV are exempt from the
CDL requirement:
A vehicle owned and controlled by a farmer that has a GVWR of more than 26,000 lbs and is
used to transport agricultural products, farm machinery, or farm products within 150 miles of the farm
A vehicle primarily designed for purposes other than the transportation of persons or property
(commonly referred to as Special Purpose Commercial) with a GVWR of 26,000 lbs or less or,
if the GVWR is more than 26,000 lbs, not able to be operated at normal highway speeds
Fire and police vehicles engaged in emergency operations in New York State
Military vehicles or combination of vehicles operated by members of the armed forces
Personal vehicles (including rental vehicles up to 26,000 lbs GVWR) when operated strictly and
exclusively to transport personal possessions or family members for non-commercial purposes {{NOTE:personal & non-commercial!!}} {{ This I found while pokin' around }} Do You Need A DOT Number?

The laden weight of your truck and trailer is important as you may fall into the category of needing a U. S. or state D.O.T. (Department of Transportation) number or CDL (commercial drivers license).

Do you need a DOT Number, logbook or Commercial Drivers License if you don�t haul horses for money?

If your vehicle or combination of vehicles has a GVWR (Gross Vehicle Weight Rating) or GCVWR (Gross Combined Vehicle Weight Rating) of less than 10,001 lbs., you do not need to be concerned about these things. However, if your rig has a GVWR or GCVWR of 10,001 lbs. or more, you must make some decisions. (The GVWR is determined by the manufacturer and should be marked on your trailer and your tow vehicle. The GCVWR can be obtained by adding the two together. A two-horse trailer and a pickup truck can easily be rated over 10,001 lbs.).

Even if you don't haul horses for money, the US Department of Transportation (USDOT) can consider you "commercial". Operating a commercial stable, hauling horses for show (with intent to profit), rodeo, race, sale, training, or for compensation are examples of "commercial ventures" as defined by the DOT for those who are traveling interstate. Those who only travel intrastate need only be concerned with the regulations within their own state of residence. Most states have the same regulations and some have even more stringent laws.

If you fall into the commercial category, you must follow the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Regulations (FMCSR). This means that you must carry a logbook, medical card, certain safety equipment (such as flares, triangles, fire extinguisher etc.) and your vehicle must be equipped with certain features such as required lights, safety chains, brakes, and breakaway brake. You must also have a federal inspection sticker, ID number, and a sign on your truck.

For interstate travel, a commercial drivers license is only necessary for driving a vehicle or combination of vehicles over 26,001 lbs. Some states have additional classified licenses for those who drive vehicles or combinations under 26.001 lbs.
Farm exemptions are available, but if you have a farm plate, you may not travel more than 100 miles from your farm.

Explanation of GVW, GVWR, GCVWR, and GW (weight terms for your truck and trailer)

GVW (Gross Vehicle Weight) and GW (Gross Weight) are interchangeable terms meaning the actual weight of the vehicle (trailer) and its complete load. This weight can be determined by loading the horses, tack, feed, and hay etc. into the fully equipped trailer (mats, spare tire, etc.) and taking it to a truck scale to have it weighed. Most gravel yards or truck stops have truck scales.

GVWR (Gross Vehicle Weigh Rating) is the value specified by the manufacturer as the recommended maximum loaded weight of a single vehicle. For a trailer this value is determined by the axle capacity and the coupler capacity. For example, a trailer will be rated at 5000 lbs. GVWR by the manufacturer if it has two 2500 lb. axles and a 2 inch ball coupler that is rated 5000 lbs. Loading the trailer to excess of the GVWR is not only unsafe, but is illegal.

GCVWR (Gross Combined Vehicle Weight Rating) is the value specified by the manufacturer as the recommended maximum loaded weight of a combination of vehicles. (The GVWR of the tow vehicle plus the GVWR of the trailer.) In the absence of a value specified by the manufacturer, GCVWR will be determined by adding the GVWR of the power unit and the total weight of the towed unit and any load thereon.

If your vehicle or combination of vehicles has a GVWR (Gross Vehicle Weight Rating) or GCVWR (Gross Combined Vehicle Weight Rating) of less than 10,001 lbs., you do not need to be concerned about these things. However, if your rig has a GVWR or GCVWR of 10,001 lbs. or more, you must make some decisions. (The GVWR is determined by the manufacturer and should be marked on your trailer and your tow vehicle. The GCVWR can be obtained by adding the two together. A two-horse trailer and a pickup truck can easily be rated over 10,001 lbs.).

Even if you don't haul horses for money, the US Department of Transportation (USDOT) can consider you "commercial". Operating a commercial stable, hauling horses for show (with intent to profit), rodeo, race, sale, training, or for compensation are examples of "commercial ventures" as defined by the DOT for those who are traveling interstate. Those who only travel intrastate need only be concerned with the regulations within their own state of residence. Most states have the same regulations and some have even more stringent laws.

If you fall into the commercial category, you must follow the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Regulations (FMCSR). This means that you must carry a logbook, medical card, certain safety equipment (such as flares, triangles, fire extinguisher etc.) and your vehicle must be equipped with certain features such as required lights, safety chains, brakes, and breakaway brake. You must also have a federal inspection sticker, ID number, and a sign on your truck.

For interstate travel, a commercial drivers license is only necessary for driving a vehicle or combination of vehicles over 26,001 lbs. Some states have additional classified licenses for those who drive vehicles or combinations under 26.001 lbs.
Farm exemptions are available, but if you have a farm plate, you may not travel more than 100 miles from your farm.

Each state has a different weigh station policy. All commercial vehicles must stop, but sometimes even non-commercial vehicles must pull in. As a general rule, if the sign says "All Trucks" must pull in, it probably means pickup trucks too. Some states want to see vehicles that have "commercial" plates even if they are not classified "commercial" by use. They may want to check vehicle registration, driver's license, weight, or safety equipment and often they will want to see the health papers of the horses or do a brand inspection. Most of the time, the weigh station personnel will be too busy with big trucks to bother with you and they will probably wave you on. Some people have even been told they should not have stopped. Horse trailers fall into the cracks, and any enforcement official has the option to enforce the regulations as he sees fit. Any sign that says "Vehicles with Trailers" or with "Livestock" means you must pull in. In this case, they will want to inspect the horses. If you do not stop, they may pursue you and bring you back. The fines can be very steep and you can be held for a very inconvenient period of time.

Explanation of Unladen Weight

Unladen Weight is the actual weight of the trailer as it is equipped with mats, spare, etc. but empty of its load. This weight may be stated on the Certificate of Origin or the title of the trailer.

It is important to know the GVWR or the GW of my vehicle and trailer?

Most states require trailers to be registered by weight. Some states require registration by GVWR or GVW whichever is greater and some states require unladen weight. Other states have a dividing weight that determines license plate classification. Whichever your state requires, you must know the weight of your trailer. In most cases, if the weight of your rig exceeds the weight on the registration, you can be cited.

I am still searching DOT websites for the requirement pertaining to the weekend warrior that owns a pick-up and an enclosed trailer.

Posted By: jcc

Re: D.O.T.. regulations again - 12/29/09 01:17 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

And another little hidden golden nugget to this whole CDL mess that has been seldom mentioned, In Fla, Nebraska (ask me how I know), and I assume many other states, you are allowed to take a driving school in lieu of having a conviction/points entered on your driving record for minor non accident offenses, like speeding under 15mph over the limit,etc. However if you HAVE a CDL, no matter WHAT you were driving, whether on personal time or not, no matter where you are at, NO driving school, & full recording of points, no exceptions. Now with your CDL staus and new and improved commercial insurance rates, the points sure take on a nice new meaning.

Adding to this,in Pa. fines and points double if you have a CDL licence.

So true! A guy I worked with got a dwi on a Saturday night a couple years ago. Because he had a CDL, he lost his license, (and therefore his job) for 1 year. No negotiating, no leniency for 1st time offense, 1 full year.

Then just to pour salt in his wounds after his year off, he was required to RE-TAKE the ENTIRE CDL licensing process to get his license back. This includes having to rent a truck to perform the required 'walk around' and driving portion of the testing. This for a guy who was originally 'grandfathered' into the driving portion of his original CDL because he was already working his job when DOT enacted the CDL idea.

Keep in this in mind too: his dwi infraction was off the clock, in his own vehicle. Not exactly my idea of "fair and equal treatment under the law."

Because it is now illegal to have more than one license, if you decide to get a CDL to tow your rig, you could find yourself walking to your day job if you mess up with DOT.

..........

Good points on the DUI aspect, I;m not a drinker so I don't pay a lot of attention to it, but I believe DUI with a CDL is .04%, like 2 beers?, and there is zero tolerance, whichs means vehicle is parked if any amount is detected, so no more mouthwash.

Posted By: goldenlancer

Re: D.O.T.. regulations again - 12/29/09 01:21 AM

Posted By: Prostock

Re: D.O.T.. regulations again - 12/29/09 01:46 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Bob with all the trucking we have between us there is always away around all this mess. around the coups and DOT just don't get caught.

Bill,you know me ,locally ,I just pull right in,tell them"I'am BG and I'll do what ever I want,give me the ticket and while they are busting me,5 more BGR trailer fly by the scales The last big ticket at I-79,the local magistrate dismissed it and told me "Thanks for keeping Britt #1 in our division and #8 in the country"obviously a Mizia Racing and dragrace fan.The last big fine in one of the big tri axle tractor and triaxle lowboys was $11,500 at New Stanton.The magistrate ask me why a State senator and local legislator had interest in it,I told him I needed all the help I could get reduced to $1500 Got busted with the triaxle dump on a Saturady morning awhile back,handed the DOT insp. my load ticket for 85,000# was only legal for 73,280#.He said"boy you got a lot of balls,don't you have another ticket?"I said "No sir,my first load for today"He says how do you want it(the ticket) on gross or axle weight? I said which is cheaper.He said go to the ramp and make this load legal. I said ok,how?He said keep an eye on me I get real busy here. There's a lot more

Holy cow Bob, what does all that mean in English?

Posted By: hemi-itis

Re: D.O.T.. regulations again - 12/29/09 01:57 AM

Quote:

BG , I hope none of those fellows read these post!! You'll be setting in the pokey next time.

I doubt it

if they are here,reading this post,,,,,,,,,,,,,they would get the next freshinin'' for a case of

,a little

and some pizza

Posted By: B1KILLER

Re: D.O.T.. regulations again - 12/29/09 02:42 AM

Quote:

Quote:

BG , I hope none of those fellows read these post!! You'll be setting in the pokey next time.

I doubt it if they are here,reading this post,,,,,,,,,,,,,they would get the next freshinin'' for a case of ,a little and some pizza

I use to have better luck in NY with the court system as far as tickets.
For some reason here in Florida, its a$$ backwards, These judges want to put the working
man in jail for nonsense. I was transporting a car
trailer like to months ago, stop for a cafe cubano
and almost ended up in jail, for putting a transport
tag on the trailer. I had to get 1 of my flatbed TT
to [Edited by Moparts - Family Friendly Site - Keep it clean]
load it on top of the truck, and they confiscated my tag.
went to court and decided to plead no contest to get it over with.
I thought it would be like NY pay a surcharge, I was wrong.
Turns out I had to pay court fees which added up to almost $400.00.
Worst part is I wasn't guilty, I just didn't want to have to go back,
and waste another day, go figure.

Towing ain't easy

Posted By: Prostock

Re: D.O.T.. regulations again - 12/29/09 02:46 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

BG , I hope none of those fellows read these post!! You'll be setting in the pokey next time.

I doubt it if they are here,reading this post,,,,,,,,,,,,,they would get the next freshinin'' for a case of ,a little and some pizza

I use to have better luck in NY with the court system as far as tickets.
For some reason here in Florida, its a$$ backwards, These judges want to put the working
man in jail for nonsense. I was transporting a car
trailer like to months ago, stop for a cafe cubano
and almost ended up in jail, for putting a transport
tag on the trailer. I had to get 1 of my flatbed TT
to [Edited by Moparts - Family Friendly Site - Keep it clean]
load it on top of the truck, and they confiscated my tag.
went to court and decided to plead no contest to get it over with.
I thought it would be like NY pay a surcharge, I was wrong.
Turns out I had to pay court fees which added up to almost $400.00.
Worst part is I wasn't guilty, I just didn't want to have to go back,
and waste another day, go figure.
Towing ain't easy

Was it legal to use the transit plate on the trailer?

People around here will try to use dealer plates on their personal items not titled to the dealer, and that's not legal.

Posted By: B1KILLER

Re: D.O.T.. regulations again - 12/29/09 03:08 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

BG , I hope none of those fellows read these post!! You'll be setting in the pokey next time.

I doubt it if they are here,reading this post,,,,,,,,,,,,,they would get the next freshinin'' for a case of ,a little and some pizza

I use to have better luck in NY with the court system as far as tickets.
For some reason here in Florida, its a$$ backwards, These judges want to put the working
man in jail for nonsense. I was transporting a car
trailer like to months ago, stop for a cafe cubano
and almost ended up in jail, for putting a transport
tag on the trailer. I had to get 1 of my flatbed TT
to [Edited by Moparts - Family Friendly Site - Keep it clean]
load it on top of the truck, and they confiscated my tag.
went to court and decided to plead no contest to get it over with.
I thought it would be like NY pay a surcharge, I was wrong.
Turns out I had to pay court fees which added up to almost $400.00.
Worst part is I wasn't guilty, I just didn't want to have to go back,
and waste another day, go figure.
Towing ain't easy

Was it legal to use the transit plate on the trailer?

People around here will try to use dealer plates on their personal items not titled to the dealer, and that's not legal.

No he tried to claim I was using it for personal
use, when I stopped to buy a coffee. This is a cop
I use to see every morning when I would stop their
to get my coffee, it was his hang out. I don't see
him hanging out their anymore after I filled a complaint,
for harassment, for all the threats he made towards
me. He had me out their looking like I had just
finished killing someone. I did get my tag back
after I paid the court fees

Also I had a transport tag, the laws are very much different
then a Dealer tag, lot more freedom with a dealer
tag

Posted By: hemi-itis

Re: D.O.T.. regulations again - 12/29/09 03:15 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

BG , I hope none of those fellows read these post!! You'll be setting in the pokey next time.

I doubt it if they are here,reading this post,,,,,,,,,,,,,they would get the next freshinin'' for a case of ,a little and some pizza

I use to have better luck in NY with the court system as far as tickets.
For some reason here in Florida, its a$$ backwards, These judges want to put the working
man in jail for nonsense. I was transporting a car
trailer like to months ago, stop for a cafe cubano
and almost ended up in jail, for putting a transport
tag on the trailer. I had to get 1 of my flatbed TT
to [Edited by Moparts - Family Friendly Site - Keep it clean]
load it on top of the truck, and they confiscated my tag.
went to court and decided to plead no contest to get it over with.
I thought it would be like NY pay a surcharge, I was wrong.
Turns out I had to pay court fees which added up to almost $400.00.
Worst part is I wasn't guilty, I just didn't want to have to go back,
and waste another day, go figure.
Towing ain't easy

Was it legal to use the transit plate on the trailer?

People around here will try to use dealer plates on their personal items not titled to the dealer, and that's not legal.

Alot of people think you can slap that dealer plate on ANYTHING and use it.Whatever that plate is on better be in booked {entered} in the dealers MV log or

Loose the plate for awhile and some HEFTEY FINES.Explain something like this to your buddie you borrowed the plate from

Posted By: DakFink

Re: D.O.T.. regulations again - 12/29/09 10:14 AM

OK from all the research I have done for TEXAS.

I can get a Class-A non-CDL license for operating a vehicle that would be classified as a CMV as long as it is a n RV. AND Fill-out a CDL-2 (Rev11/30) and Check #4. Still have to test and the renewal time is longer and the license cheaper.

ftp://ftp.txdps.state.tx.us/forms/cdl-2.pdf

Now that I am licensed!!!???

To License my Vehicle/s.
Register The Truck: I can leave it as a Personal Vehicle or have it registered as a TRUCK.
in TX TRUCK = a Vehicle designed to haul more than just trailers upon the chassis. You can pull Trailers or Travel Trailers with it BUT NOT Semi Trailers (Token Trailers, In Texas). All the TRUCK License would do is allow me to increase the GCWR over the factory recommended 23000lbs as long as I don't exceed the GVWR of 11,000lbs on the truck itself.

There IS A Semi-Truck license as well That allows you to pull any trailer. And is for Vehicle designed ONLY to pull trailers.

Register The trailer: Texas definition of an RV includes single Vehicle and Trailers that have Living Quarters that are designed and used for Part Time Human Habitation. They issue a Travel Trailer tag for Trailer with the prescribed RV requirements(shower, Toilet, HVAC, Kitchen, Sink, etc.) Texas does also address the issue of ATV / Toy Haulers as being an RV and getting a Travel Trailer tag so long as it is used for recreational, camping, hobby use, and NOT used for Permanent Habitation, Habitation for the conduct of business, or to further a business or commerce.
They do specify that a TRAVEL TRAILER is not, an enclosed trailer, utility trailer or Cargo Trailer.

So if:
1: I get a Non-CDL Class-A license
2: Register my 3500 as a TRUCK with a 17000/+ GCWR (that's highest number Texas uses in that class)
3:Buy a 40' Trailer with living Quarters that has the required equipment to classify as an RV and get Travel Trailer tags.

I should be good to go as long as I do not Live in it as Permanent Housing, Use it for any Business or Commerce.

Only GREY area is the Drag Racing itself???
I personally do it for Recreation, fun Hobby, socializing!!!

The occasional Pay-Out would be nice if I got that lucky. BUT that is where the issue seems to be.

I'm going to do more research on this one!!!
(Commerce, Business and Winnings)

The heck with Webster i'm going to see if I came find the legal definition of Commerce and how Competitive/Luck winnings apply if they even do?

Posted By: DakFink

Re: D.O.T.. regulations again - 12/29/09 11:41 AM

I found this info at uscode.house.gov

This is actually the Definition of Words as it is written at the National Level.

1) "commercial motor vehicle" means a self-propelled or towed vehicle used on the highways in interstate commerce to transport passengers or property, if the vehicle -

(A) has a gross vehicle weight rating or gross vehicle weight of at least 10,001 pounds, whichever is greater;

(B) is designed or used to transport more than 8 passengers (including the driver) for compensation;

(C) is designed or used to transport more than 15 passengers,including the driver, and is not used to transport passengers for compensation; or

(D) is used in transporting material found by the Secretary of Transportation to be hazardous under section 5103 of this title and transported in a quantity requiring placarding under regulations prescribed by the Secretary under section 5103.

(4) "interstate commerce" means trade, traffic, or transportation in the United States between a place in a State
and -

(A) a place outside that State (including a place outside the United States); or

(B) another place in the same State through another State or through a place outside the United States.

I don't know about anyone else but to me there isn't much room for interpretation to that.

According to those 2 definitions which came from the US Code for Transportation, They should pull anyone in a Dually or bigger over any time they see them with a Load of Passengers or property outside their home state.!!

No freeking wonder EVERYONE IS SO CONFUSED.

I guess it's a good thing too, especially for those that said they got some HUGE tickets and got out of them.

I could have sworn I also saw the definition that we are used to for a CMV in that same section somewhere. I know this portion was dated 1-8-2008.

Posted By: B G Racing

Re: D.O.T.. regulations again - 12/29/09 02:09 PM

Quote:

BG , I hope none of those fellows read these post!! You'll be setting in the pokey next time.

Neah,been doing this for 46 years,most all the locals know me(born and raised in SW Pa.)They just shake their heads when they see me,they know their in for a battle.Besides most Pa. Bears can't read or understand their own laws.

I learned to be respectfull and I have a sence of humor that can defuse most tense situations.The last thing they want is to lose at the hearings,dosen't look good in their file.

Posted By: DakFink

Re: D.O.T.. regulations again - 12/29/09 06:30 PM

OH I am ticked now!!!

Moving to AZ next summer and looked up there Licensing.

They don't do anything but CDL A-B-C and Operator Class-D (Typical DL)

They do have a Class-A Permit that allows you to make a 1 time Class-A trip without a CDL. You have to apply for it in advance and they check your equipment details and your route and make sure you won't have any issues with your equipment on the route you want use.

It's actually called a Class-A overweight/ oversize Permit for Non CDL holders.

Posted By: emarine01

Re: D.O.T.. regulations again - 12/29/09 06:54 PM

I bet that half the states will change their laws before this thread is finished

Posted By: B1KILLER

Re: D.O.T.. regulations again - 12/29/09 07:04 PM

Quote:

I bet that half the states will change their laws before this thread is finished

Posted By: jcc

Re: D.O.T.. regulations again - 12/29/09 10:05 PM

Quote:

I bet that half the states will change their laws before this thread is finished

, sad but true, so many are trying to find a loophole to drive a 26,000 lb vehicle thru by calling it a RV its almost entertaining, but as soon as they get all the true CMV's in line and registered and fined out of business, there really is no safety reason why RV's should be exempt as for as the damage they can do to another vehicle on the road in an accident, then RV's will be next, and this is all about safety, Right?

Posted By: DakFink

Re: D.O.T.. regulations again - 12/30/09 04:35 AM

You would think they would have included SIZE as well as GVW in the equatiuon.

Get a 3-4 Car flat bed behind a Mega Cab Dodge and it pretty close to being as big as a Semi with a 40' box. I've even seen a few 38-40ft trailers that were rated at 10000lbs.

I personally think the Dimensional Sizing of the vehicle is more of an issue than the weight up to a point.

I think Texas is on the right track. CDL and Non-CDL Class A, B, C (so long as you aren't doing it for business). Still have to take the written and Practical for both, BUT not the Physical, Higher Price and everything else that goes with a CDL.

This is one of those times when I think there should be Federal Standards (with no State Level deviations) so everyone is on the same playing field.

Posted By: jcc

Re: D.O.T.. regulations again - 01/27/10 02:03 AM

So all you guys that are now DOT registered, effective today, any texting in a CMV (10,000lbs up)while driving is $2750 fine, might as well make it A million, and I suspect you have to prove you were not texting, and likely all cell phones are soon to be banned in CMV's.

Great history lesson here to see how revolutions get started.

PS I have never "texted"

Posted By: B1KILLER

Re: D.O.T.. regulations again - 01/27/10 02:25 AM

Please, I have been given ticket for using a cell
phone, when I was actually on the 2way. Had to use
a lawyer the 1st time to learn the language how
to beat it the 1st time. After that I would go myself.
The abuse we go threw, due to law enforcement
thinking their god

The lies they will
tell to get a conviction

And how they get
when they loose in court, well let me stop here

Posted By: 05dakota

Re: D.O.T.. regulations again - 01/27/10 04:47 PM

if no cells, it should also be no cb s or 2 ways.

Posted By: 440Jim

Re: D.O.T.. regulations again - 01/27/10 05:07 PM

Quote:

So all you guys that are now DOT registered, effective today, any texting in a CMV (10,000lbs up)while driving is $2750 fine,

And they passed it based on data about accidents while texting. However, I bet that data was not commercial drivers, but rather non-commercial. I would think it should apply to non-commercial, not the "pros" (commercial); that is where the probem is.

Posted By: jcc

Re: D.O.T.. regulations again - 01/27/10 09:12 PM

likely you have a valid point, but the counter argument always seems to be if you save one live its worth it, and I say to that just lower the speed limit to 2mph and think how many lives that will save.

Two mights ago in Ft lauderdale a 21year old Sheriff at night, driving without emergency lights, with the right a way, and thought to be traveling approx 70mph by witnesses, in a 40mph? zone, T boned a Honda, cutting it in two and killing the teenage passenger on the scene. No word whether he was distracted by his dash mounted laptop.

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