Moparts
Jesel or T&D Individual Shaft Rockers
Posted By: sg66mopar
Jesel or T&D Individual Shaft Rockers - 12/01/09 06:37 PM
My new B1 heads should be ready for Koffel's to set up with rocker gear pretty soon and I need to decide between Jesel or T&D rockers. Has anybody here used or at least had some experience with both?
Posted By: joshking440
Re: Jesel or T&D Individual Shaft Rockers - 12/01/09 06:38 PM
I am in the market as well....maybe we can get a deal if we buy two sets
Posted By: sc301v
Re: Jesel or T&D Individual Shaft Rockers - 12/01/09 06:45 PM
I have a set of each on 2 different cars and no complaints on either one....I do know that Jesel charges alot to rebuild there's.
Posted By: camastomcat
Re: Jesel or T&D Individual Shaft Rockers - 12/01/09 06:45 PM
I use Jessel individual shaft and have single shaft T&D's on my other motor. The Jessel's are really nice, and so are the T&D's, but the individual system is by far the best. The Jessels require alot of machine work, and the T&D's don't. That would make my mind up.
Posted By: Bob_Coomer
Re: Jesel or T&D Individual Shaft Rockers - 12/01/09 07:05 PM
Jesel is about as good as it gets. They also allow for large diameter springs which the T&D in some cases do not.
I would advise going with pushrod oiling also. I ran spray bar oiling on my engine, and had no trouble. I actually made my own spray bar/lines setup.
If starting from scratch I would have had the Indy Maxx block drilled to allow pushrod oiling. But my machine shop couldnt do it.
The spray bar covers and setup isnt real cheap $400+ so the costs of having the lifter bores drilled should actually save some money. The push rods are Not any more money with the oil holes.
If you are interested in making your own spray bar lines..I wouldnt care to share how I did them
Posted By: sg66mopar
Re: Jesel or T&D Individual Shaft Rockers - 12/02/09 02:32 AM
I think it might take more than two sets. Anybody else
interested? Maybe an early
Posted By: sg66mopar
Re: Jesel or T&D Individual Shaft Rockers - 12/02/09 02:37 AM
Hey Bob, would or wouldn't? Sure would like to see.
Posted By: Al_Alguire
Re: Jesel or T&D Individual Shaft Rockers - 12/02/09 05:03 AM
T&D individual shaft is the best option IMO. Been working for me with zero issues. BTW fwiw my springs are 1.677 diameter and the rockers clear with NO issues or clearancing and i pushrod oil as well.
Posted By: dodgeboy11
Re: Jesel or T&D Individual Shaft Rockers - 12/02/09 05:17 AM
As told by a guy who used to work at T&D, the Jesels use a "spray and pray" oiling setup while the T&D's have pressurized oiling from the adjuster to the trunion bearings.
I don't think you could go wrong with either set.
Posted By: HardcoreB
Re: Jesel or T&D Individual Shaft Rockers - 12/02/09 12:10 PM
Quote:
My new B1 heads should be ready for Koffel's to set up with rocker gear pretty soon and I need to decide between Jesel or T&D rockers. Has anybody here used or at least had some experience with both?
You have a good product. And I think your willing to do what it takes ($) to build a smart powerful package. My concern is your last post. Most here lead you down the path of better rockers ($). But contradictory to us 'experts' B1Headman posts this in the Greg'sDart valvetrain post.
"Two set ups 1st is our std. N/A set up 250-260 seat load 760-800 open load 1.7 std. B1 rockers .780-.800 lift comp 829-16 lifters. 3/8 int pushrods & 7/16 ex pushrods. 2nd set up is for blown applications.
>>>(350-370 seat load and 1050-1100 open load. 1.7 std. B1 rockers)<<<!!! .850 lift. 1/2 int and ex pushrods. Crane pro series lifters.We run this combo 8800-9000 rpm."
This would lead me to believe the 'kit' rockers you already purchased where more than adequate. Why are you changing rockers? Just didn't want you to spend $ unnecessarily, also would like to better understand your decision snce you've already involved us. And better educate us 'experts'. 
Posted By: HardcoreB
Re: Jesel or T&D Individual Shaft Rockers - 12/02/09 12:22 PM
Quote:
I use Jessel individual shaft and have single shaft T&D's on my other motor. The Jessel's are really nice, and so are the T&D's, but the individual system is by far the best. The Jessels require alot of machine work, and the T&D's don't. That would make my mind up.
The way I understand this is that you can purchase either the individual 'paired' shaft rockers which require machining or buy a bolt-on kit. I believe T&D make individual 'paired' rockers which also require machining.
Posted By: camastomcat
Re: Jesel or T&D Individual Shaft Rockers - 12/02/09 12:51 PM
What I meant to say is, I run the Jessels and they are pushrod fed oiling individual shaft rockers. They work great, but required alot of machine work to fit. I also run the single shaft T&D's and they worked fine, once the pushrod length was perfect, and I mean it needs to be perfect. But when I build my next rocker system, it will be with T&D individual shaft system, because they don't require the extra machine work that the Jessel's do. I have also used the Koffel black rockers, and they worked fine for me. I did order the torington bearing kit from Tom Hemphil for the rocker shafts. He is in PA and can help with that. But if you are set on individual shaft system, pushrod oiling is the only way to go IMO.
Posted By: joshking440
Re: Jesel or T&D Individual Shaft Rockers - 12/02/09 12:51 PM
Do the T&D rockers that require no machining need to oil through the push rod?
Posted By: camastomcat
Re: Jesel or T&D Individual Shaft Rockers - 12/02/09 12:53 PM
Quote:
Do the T&D rockers that require no machining need to oil through the push rod?
The individual shaft Jessel or T&D require either spray bar, or pushrod oiling.
Posted By: V10nacuda
Re: Jesel or T&D Individual Shaft Rockers - 12/02/09 02:21 PM
My vote is the T&D individual shaft rockers. My Engine guy Tom HEMPHILL ordered the Jesel & got to looking what it would take to make them work & decided to fall back on the tried & true T&D that he has used for years on B1 stuff.
One thing to watch for is when you install the rockers make a few pulls & check to be sure the rollers aren't locked up. Mine were soaked in oil for a day or two like the instructions say & 3 were stiff & it scored the roller. One had to be replaced the others were removed, polished & reinstalled.
GOOD LUCK
Posted By: supercomp
Re: Jesel or T&D Individual Shaft Rockers - 12/02/09 02:39 PM
We've had great luck with Jesel's.
Posted By: sg66mopar
Re: Jesel or T&D Individual Shaft Rockers - 12/02/09 04:05 PM
Sean, Koffel's still has the heads so I was hoping I could just have them do an "upgrade" to the Jesel or TD setup and get them to adjust the pricing. I mentioned to Scott when I ordered that I might want to go this route, don't know if he'll remember.
We broke a rocker on the Indy set-up we ran last year and now we're paranoid. That's the biggest reason we're switching heads. Figured if we had to spend money on better rockers it might as well be on better heads also.
I know Koffel, along with a lot of other people use the standard B1 rockers without problems. That's OK for people who have the resources to fix broken parts and go racing again the next weekend but that's not me. At my stage in life and with the money involved, if I grenade this motor I'm probably all done racing.
Posted By: dodgeboy11
Re: Jesel or T&D Individual Shaft Rockers - 12/02/09 10:06 PM
Seriously, you could flip a coin on the rockers. Since you're in Oregon I'd consider T&D's just because if you do need parts, they're only a state and a half away from you.
Posted By: Cab_Burge
Re: Jesel or T&D Individual Shaft Rockers - 12/02/09 10:24 PM
Pay now and get the good stuff, have Koffels do it for you now so you don't have to pay more later when it breaks,
if if(the black rockers) ever does
Posted By: Ari440
Re: Jesel or T&D Individual Shaft Rockers - 08/19/14 06:30 AM
HOW MUCH MONEY ARE THE T/D AND JESSEL SETUP
Posted By: Biginchmopar
Re: Jesel or T&D Individual Shaft Rockers - 08/19/14 06:50 AM
T&D paired 5/8" shaft rocker system and don't look back.
Money well spent!
Call T&D and ask for Sheldon, tell him Bob from Carson City told you to call.
T&D 1(775)884-2292
Posted By: LUMI
Re: Jesel or T&D Individual Shaft Rockers - 08/19/14 06:51 AM
Quote:
HOW MUCH MONEY ARE THE T/D AND JESSEL SETUP
Jersel 1685
T&D single shaft 1350
T&D paired shaft 1450
i ordered T&D single shaft 2 weeks ago from Koffels Place
Posted By: Biginchmopar
Re: Jesel or T&D Individual Shaft Rockers - 08/19/14 06:54 AM
Quote:
Seriously, you could flip a coin on the rockers. Since you're in Oregon I'd consider T&D's just because if you do need parts, they're only a state and a half away from you.
Jason Nevada borders Oregon so we are only a state away.
What is wrong with you? Did you go to school in Lund Nevada or something?
JEEZZZ! 
Posted By: poppaj
Re: Jesel or T&D Individual Shaft Rockers - 08/19/14 08:24 AM
I had Scott do the oiling and go through my motor a couple seasons ago and he set up mine with his standard rockers and trend pushrods, it worked good until when I freshened it I went to a stiffer spring then I started having rocker and pushrods problems. I went to a .130 wall 3/8" pushrods and Harland sharp single shaft rockers and had no more problems. I think the black standard rockers fatigue after a couple hundred runs. Harland sharp are $1200 complete any ratio. Poppaj
Posted By: LUMI
Re: Jesel or T&D Individual Shaft Rockers - 08/19/14 08:59 AM
Quote:
I think the black standard rockers fatigue after a couple hundred runs
mine lasted about 12 runs on strip and 400 miles street 
Posted By: 72chrgrally
Re: Jesel or T&D Individual Shaft Rockers - 08/19/14 01:14 PM
I'd like to see a pic of the T&D individual shaft set up installed. I've decided to sell my Jesel for my 440-1's stuff and look into possibly the T&D single shaft or the individual. Do the individual shaft rockers from T&D require milling off the rocker stands?
Steve
Posted By: jyrki
Re: Jesel or T&D Individual Shaft Rockers - 08/19/14 03:25 PM
They do require machining. I have used both style T&D's, and both have worked well. Not so with the black Koffel's, not even after consulting with Koffel's and doing things according to their instructions. No need to get yourself aggravated, when it can be easilly avoided.
Posted By: fbs63
Re: Jesel or T&D Individual Shaft Rockers - 08/19/14 04:07 PM
One thing to remember with the single shaft setups. I know T&D recommends no larger than a 1.550 dia. spring. I don't know about Harland Sharp. I have used the individual shaft T&Ds on a few engines with pushrod oiling and never had an issue.
Posted By: 440Jim
Re: Jesel or T&D Individual Shaft Rockers - 08/19/14 04:33 PM
Quote:
I'd like to see a pic of the T&D individual shaft set up installed. I've decided to sell my Jesel for my 440-1's stuff and look into possibly the T&D single shaft or the individual. Do the individual shaft rockers from T&D require milling off the rocker stands?
Steve
Attached is a picture of the T&D rockers that have the paired shaft system (a short shaft for each cylinder). The rocker stands had to be milled off and the holes to bolt down the adapter added. Indy 440-1 CNC heads, setup by BEST Machine.
Posted By: 440Jim
Re: Jesel or T&D Individual Shaft Rockers - 08/19/14 04:35 PM
And this picture is of one pair of rockers.
These are 1.65 ratio, and 1.62" dia springs.
Posted By: 440Jim
Re: Jesel or T&D Individual Shaft Rockers - 08/19/14 05:37 PM
And this is a picture of the adapter that bolts to the head after milling off the cast rocker stands.
Posted By: 72chrgrally
Re: Jesel or T&D Individual Shaft Rockers - 08/19/14 05:56 PM
Thanks for the pics. It looks like the paired T&D's use the same mounting idea as the Jesel's that I already have. I'd really like to avoid machining off the rocker stands, I think if I was buying new I would have them machined off by Indy and ready to go but at this point I think I'll go with the single shaft deal from T&D. Part of the problem is finding someone up here that knows what is involved with doing the job, I don't want my heads being a guini pig for someone to learn on.
Steve
Posted By: Al_Alguire
Re: Jesel or T&D Individual Shaft Rockers - 08/19/14 07:09 PM
Resurrected from the dead. Got to love someone using the search function
Posted By: camastomcat
Re: Jesel or T&D Individual Shaft Rockers - 08/19/14 07:11 PM
Quote:
And this is a picture of the adapter that bolts to the head after milling off the cast rocker stands.
And that's how it's supposed to be done!
Posted By: AndyF
Re: Jesel or T&D Individual Shaft Rockers - 08/19/14 07:52 PM
If you already have Jesel rocker arms and you just need the heads machined then send the heads and the arms down to Jesel and they'll take care of it for you. I'm sure there are plenty of other shops who can also handle the machine work. I machined my EZ heads for Jesel rocker arms but I had access to a good machine shop. I will say that it is better to order the heads from Indy with the Jesel machining rather than reworking single shaft heads. Doing the work once is much better than drilling and tapping holes that have already been drilled and tapped.
Posted By: BobR
Re: Jesel or T&D Individual Shaft Rockers - 08/19/14 09:01 PM
Quote:
Quote:
HOW MUCH MONEY ARE THE T/D AND JESSEL SETUP
Jersel 1685
T&D single shaft 1350
T&D paired shaft 1450
i ordered T&D single shaft 2 weeks ago from Koffels Place
Do you guys know how much hemi rockers cost? My wife didn't either until recently.
Posted By: 72chrgrally
Re: Jesel or T&D Individual Shaft Rockers - 08/19/14 09:21 PM
Quote:
If you already have Jesel rocker arms and you just need the heads machined then send the heads and the arms down to Jesel and they'll take care of it for you. I'm sure there are plenty of other shops who can also handle the machine work. I machined my EZ heads for Jesel rocker arms but I had access to a good machine shop. I will say that it is better to order the heads from Indy with the Jesel machining rather than reworking single shaft heads. Doing the work once is much better than drilling and tapping holes that have already been drilled and tapped.
Bringing parts across the boarder to be machined in the US can be a real PITA for us. I've heard horror stories, mostly about coming back across the boareder from the States. On top of that once they have been machined I would have to use Jesel stuff forever on them, I'd like to keep the versatility of keeping the single shafts. These heads may end up going onto another project we have when I build a 572.
I read your book Andy, thank you for writing it, extreamly informative!
Steve
Posted By: AndyF
Re: Jesel or T&D Individual Shaft Rockers - 08/19/14 10:12 PM
You could take your heads up the 401 to Bewdley and have Tim at FHO do the machine work. I'm sure he can handle a Jesel conversion and you won't have to cross the border.
Posted By: mac56
Re: Jesel or T&D Individual Shaft Rockers - 08/20/14 12:54 PM
Quote:
You could take your heads up the 401 to Bewdley and have Tim at FHO do the machine work. I'm sure he can handle a Jesel conversion and you won't have to cross the border.
That would only be 1 1/2 hours drive for you Steve.
Posted By: Ari440
Re: Jesel or T&D Individual Shaft Rockers - 08/20/14 01:24 PM
Quote:
Resurrected from the dead. Got to love someone using the search function
we got some homework to do !
Posted By: 72chrgrally
Re: Jesel or T&D Individual Shaft Rockers - 08/20/14 06:18 PM
Quote:
Quote:
You could take your heads up the 401 to Bewdley and have Tim at FHO do the machine work. I'm sure he can handle a Jesel conversion and you won't have to cross the border.
That would only be 1 1/2 hours drive for you Steve.
I've been to Tims a few times, I'll have to ask what the would charge.
Steve
Posted By: HardcoreB
Re: Jesel or T&D Individual Shaft Rockers - 08/21/14 01:36 AM
Just a FWIW... When using TD's paired rocker system beyond .750" valve lift the rocker sweeps well past an ideal position (offset from center). I saw this on two different 440-1 Indy's applications as shown in 440Jim's post. Therefore it would be prudent to offset machine, and while you're there add some keen certs, the factory hold-down centerlines. We had both heads done here locally and added two dowels per head.