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Holley 4 corner idle questions?

Posted By: HotRodDave

Holley 4 corner idle questions? - 11/23/09 07:10 PM

So what is the best way to set the idle mix on one of thease things? Do you turn them all just a little at a time the same amount or one at a time till you get the best vaccume?

Also what would be a good baseline to start at?
Posted By: sshemi

Re: olley 4orner idle questions? - 11/23/09 07:17 PM

turn them all a little at the time til highest vaccum.
1,5-2 turn should get you close otherwise an idle airbleed change may be nessesary. aldough that will offset the part throttle so a change in idle feed restrictors may be in order and that offsets the main system so a change in main air bleeds may need to get done.... AND the whole circus is on.

EFI???
Posted By: YO7_A66

Re: olley 4 corner idle questions? - 11/23/09 07:51 PM

You will want all four corners turned out the same amount as long as your IAB's/IFR's are the same size.
You will want to hook up a vacuum gage to the carb to read the manifold vacuum.
(Note: Before I start, I like to take a permanent marker and mark each metering screw at the 12:00 o'clock position when they are bottomed out (Clockwise), for my own reference. This is how I can tell if they are all even once I am done tuning.)
Depending on a few things, maybe start out with them all at 1-1/2 turns out. Then get the motor to operating temp and idling at the rpm of your choice. (Note: Once you pick this rpm, always use it during the tuning so you have a reference point for your vacuum readings. You want the highest vacuum reading at this rpm while in N.) Next you will want to reference your vacuum reading and then pick one of the metering screws and turn it in or out 1/8 turn. Then you want to wait 10 seconds or so and reference your vacuum reading again. If the vacuum reading went up, then do the same thing to the next metering screw. If the vacuum reading got worse, then turn it back to the 1-1/2 turn out and then go the opposite way 1/8 turn. Once you get the first metering screw adjusted in or out to make your vacuum reading go up, then move to the next meteirng screw and turn it the same direction as the first meteirng screw.
- You will want to wait about 10-20 seconds or so after you turn the MS before you reference your new vacuum reading.
- You may have to readjust your idle rpms after the 20 seconds is up because as your vacuum reading goes up, so will your idle rpms.
On your first tuning, you may want to go around the carb 2-3 times and adjust each of the four metering screws and once you start getting closer to your best vacuum reading, you will be adjusting your metering screws less and less each time. This does take 10-15 minutes but if you are patient enough to do this, your idle quality will increase. If this is an auto car, then you will want to apply the emergency brake and put the car in D. Then readjust the four meteirng screws 1 or two more times to now gain the highest vacuum reading at your desired in gear idle rpms. With an auto car, this is more important than tuning your metering screws in N for a "street driven" car. Once you have your in gear idle rpms where you want them with the most vacuum at that rpms, then reference where the marks are that you made on the metering screws. They should all be real close to the same amount of turns outward. Once the outside temps go up or down, you will want to retune your metering screws in the same manner.
The first time you tune the carb will take the longest because you have to get it close in N and then fine tune it in gear.
Once you are done and you still do not have the idle quality that you want, try adding more initial timing and then retune the carb again.
Posted By: HotRodDave

Re: Holley 4 corner idle questions? - 11/27/09 10:25 PM

OK so now it iles fine but it runs like crap every where else in the RPM range.

I put 84 jets all the way around and 6.5 PVs and don't know what else to try. It has #37 squirters.

The motor is a 360 with ported magnum heads 9.0 actual measured compresion ratio. Comp XE268 cam 1.6 rockers TTI headers 2.25 dual ex no muffs and it does have a crossover pipe. M1 single plane intake.
Posted By: sshemi

Re: Holley 4 corner idle questions? - 11/27/09 10:53 PM

what carb?
Posted By: HotRodDave

Re: Holley 4 corner idle questions? - 11/27/09 11:12 PM

80509 830 CFM double pumper.

I just tried some 31 squirters in it and it won't rev at all so I pt the 37 back in.
Posted By: HotRodDave

Re: olley 4orner idle questions? - 11/27/09 11:14 PM

The problem is holding at a steady RPM it breaks up real bad and smells rich (my trunk is not sealed great right now so I can smell whats going on a little ).
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: olley 4orner idle questions? - 11/27/09 11:21 PM

are you positive your timing is not at fault here? anyways,
did you check the powervalves?
Posted By: HotRodDave

Re: olley 4orner idle questions? - 11/27/09 11:32 PM

I tested both power valves and they are good, and timing is 18* initial and 33* total. Those settings worked perfect with the 770 vac secondary I had on a few minutes ago.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: olley 4orner idle questions? - 11/27/09 11:38 PM

fuel bowl level? fuel is making an unwelcomed entrance somewhere.
Posted By: HotRodDave

Re: olley 4orner idle questions? - 11/27/09 11:53 PM

Fuel is just touching the bottom of the sight glass
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: olley 4orner idle questions? - 11/28/09 12:10 AM

What was the vac reading in gear at idle
Posted By: HotRodDave

Re: olley 4orner idle questions? - 11/28/09 12:17 AM

11 inches
Posted By: Crizila

Re: olley 4orner idle questions? - 11/28/09 12:22 AM

Quote:

I tested both power valves and they are good, and timing is 18* initial and 33* total. Those settings worked perfect with the 770 vac secondary I had on a few minutes ago.


Timing looks ok. How much of the transition slots are showing? Any more than about .020" and you will be in to them.
Posted By: 9secondsatellite

Re: olley 4orner idle questions? - 11/28/09 12:31 AM

is this a new carb or rebuilt or just used? sounds like a wrong gasket problem(in the carb.) or possibly a faulty ignition. what ignition system are you running?
Posted By: HotRodDave

Re: olley 4orner idle questions? - 11/28/09 01:35 AM

It idles at 900 rpm with the throttle fully closed but I don't think it is a problem of too much throttle opening uncovering the transition slot since it is part throttle and WOT issue.

It could be a gasket problem, it had blue gaskets on it. It is a used carb but is almost new (it has 08 stampings). I pulled the bowls off and looked for any sighns of modifications and didn't see anything obvious except plugs in the PV holes witch I fixed.

What would be a good baseline for jets?

The airbleeds are stock sizes as were the jets witch I leaned out to the 84 and 83s, mabey it needs the bigger jets
Posted By: HotRodDave

Re: olley 4orner idle questions? - 11/28/09 01:37 AM

The ign is a mopar oarnge box electronic. It ran fine with the 770 street avenger and I swapped the carbs back for a minute just to make sure something didn't happen in the swap and it was OK again.
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: olley 4orner idle questions? - 11/28/09 01:45 AM

Quote:

It idles at 900 rpm with the throttle fully closed but I don't think it is a problem of too much throttle opening uncovering the transition slot since it is part throttle and WOT issue.

It could be a gasket problem, it had blue gaskets on it. It is a used carb but is almost new (it has 08 stampings). I pulled the bowls off and looked for any sighns of modifications and didn't see anything obvious except plugs in the PV holes witch I fixed.

What would be a good baseline for jets?

The airbleeds are stock sizes as were the jets witch I leaned out to the 84 and 83s, mabey it needs the bigger jets




Go to the Holley web site and get the spec's to set
it up back to stock(or at least make sure it is)
Posted By: 9secondsatellite

Re: olley 4orner idle questions? - 11/28/09 02:32 AM

sounds like you may have the wrong throttle plate to main body gasket. hate to see you take it apart just to find out,but that would be my next step. especially after you put the other carb back on and it was fine.
Posted By: HotRodDave

Re: olley 4orner idle questions? - 11/28/09 02:53 AM

86 jets stock
6.5 PVs.

What am I looking for to see if the baseplate gasket is wright or wrong besides something like a hole obviously out of place?
Posted By: YO7_A66

Re: Holley 4 corner idle questions? - 11/28/09 03:14 AM

""It ran fine with the 770 street avenger and I swapped the carbs back for a minute just to make sure something didn't happen in the swap and it was OK again. ""

Can someone confirm what the stock jetting is on a 770 SA?
86 square jets seem very rich for a 9.0:1 360 with a XE268 cam.

""OK so now it idles fine but it runs like crap every where else in the RPM range.""
""The problem is holding at a steady RPM it breaks up real bad and smells rich""

It appears that you have the idle circuit dialed in now but the jetting is way too fat causing it to run that bad. Even though it is an 830cfm, I would suggest trying much smaller primary jets and give it another test drive. Maybe 72-74 primary jets (since you have a power valve on the primary side) and stay out of the secondaries until you get a feel for the new jets.

Posted By: HotRodDave

Re: Holley 4 corner idle questions? - 11/28/09 04:17 AM

72 and 75 in the street avenger.

Can I just use those jet sizes in the 830 and get it close? I would think it would need more jet to go with more air flow
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: Holley 4 corner idle questions? - 11/28/09 04:36 AM

Quote:

72 and 75 in the street avenger.

Can I just use those jet sizes in the 830 and get it close? I would think it would need more jet to go with more air flow




Try them.... see how it acts then start to dial it in...
dont stand on it for long if you do stand on it till
you check the plugs
Posted By: 1_WILD_RT

Re: Holley 4 corner idle questions? - 11/28/09 06:08 AM

Jet sizes can be effected by air bleed size as well as venturi design... Along with the sizing of PVCR's...
Posted By: YO7_A66

Re: Holley 4 corner idle questions? - 11/28/09 01:30 PM

""72 and 75 in the street avenger.""

When you run this carb the motor acts better and it is setup much leaner than the 830. Try the 72's in the primary side of the 830 and test it but don't run it hard until you know it is not too lean. If it pings any, then try the 75's in the primary side. If either one work, then try jets in the secondary side 8-10 sizes bigger and then continue testing.
Note: The 86's in the secondary side are large jets, so that is why you don't want to jump on the carb too much becuase the large secondaries might cover up a lean condition on the primary side while you are testing and give you a false test.
Posted By: HotRodDave

Re: Holley 4 corner idle questions? - 11/28/09 05:01 PM

Can I just pull the link between the two sides of the carb and tune the primaries first then add the secondaries back in? It seems to work good for me when I run t-quads

I think if I can not get it runing decent today I might just build one of my core 850 t-quads
Posted By: YO7_A66

Re: Holley 4 corner idle questions? - 11/28/09 09:22 PM

Yes, pull the linkage and do your cruise tuning to see how it reacts. That would also be a good time to tune the primary squirter too.
Just wait to do the performance tuning until you know what the secondary jets should be.
Posted By: HotRodDave

Re: Holley 4 corner idle questions? - 11/28/09 11:11 PM

OK I ran it with the secondaries unhooked, no differance.

Plugs were looking pretty dark with black running most of the way up the electrode, sandblasted them clean and re installed with 74 jets and it felt the same but the plugs were looking better after running a couple miles steady then shutting it down, I think it may be too lean now as the black was barely on the electrode and the plugs were ghost white.
Posted By: blownzoom440

Re: Holley 4 corner idle questions? - 11/28/09 11:38 PM

keepup the good work.if you had to go to the track to tune that it would take forever.
Posted By: YO7_A66

Re: Holley 4 corner idle questions? - 11/28/09 11:59 PM

http://www.empirenet.com/pkelley2/sparkplugreading.html

I think you are moving in the right direction. There should not be allot of dark color on your porcelain. Look at the base ring of the plug for jetting.
EDIT: Two things besides rich jets that will make your plugs look rich are a weak ignition and too large of squirters. You want the smallest squirter/pump cam as long as the engine does not sputter from a light take off.
What cam? Pink?
I would now suggest that you work on the primary squirter to see if that helps. Try one change at a time and try and drive for 20 minutes or so before checking your plugs.
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