What's the Verdict on Hardblock?

Posted By: 340_Dart

What's the Verdict on Hardblock? - 11/18/09 06:04 AM

Is it a good idea or not? Some seem to like the idea, others don't

I'm pulling my Indy headed 408 this winter and making some changes to hopefully put in into the 10.0 -9.90 range (currently runs 10.30s-.40s). I'm running a factory 76 360 block... Should i do a short fill while i have it apart? thanks-Andy

Posted By: Jimi_Vignogna

Re: What's the Verdict on Hardblock? - 11/18/09 11:22 AM

if you are going to bore and hone the block again it will be ok. the block need to sit a month or better before you machine anything on it.also have the mains torqued and fill one side at a time keeping the deck level for at least 24 hours, torque the heads down with the fasteners you would normally use after you fill the water jacket.i only use hardblock none of the other fillers stay together inside the block like hardblock.

Posted By: mopar dave

Re: What's the Verdict on Hardblock? - 11/18/09 01:39 PM

i had my indy headed 408 half filled last year about 1 gallon and no issues here, even runs same temp in 80* weather.

Posted By: BobR

Re: What's the Verdict on Hardblock? - 11/18/09 02:20 PM

For regular street driving it's not a good idea. For strip and limited street is works well.

Posted By: an8sec70cuda

Re: What's the Verdict on Hardblock? - 11/18/09 02:33 PM

Water temperature isn't the problem, it's the oil temperature you have to watch with a filled block if you're still going to drive it on the street. CHIP

Posted By: topside

Re: What's the Verdict on Hardblock? - 11/18/09 06:36 PM

Anything you can do to stabilize the bores is a good idea, since you're gonna work that stock block pretty hard to get 10-ohs.

Posted By: 340_Dart

Re: What's the Verdict on Hardblock? - 11/18/09 07:02 PM

It's just a drag car, so I think I'll look into doing a short fill this winter

Posted By: sg66mopar

Re: What's the Verdict on Hardblock? - 11/18/09 07:03 PM

I ran a filled iron block for years. It actually made the motor cool faster between rounds. As stated earlier, this is for race use only, not the street. I also agree that Hardblok is the only product to use.

Get the block VERY level and keep the filler at least 1" below the water jackets. One of my blocks was done by a local machine shop. They had the block on an engine stand that drooped in the front and got the filler up too high in the back, blocking one of the rear water jackets. I didn't catch the problem until it had caused two heads to crack from the overheating. It took me over 8 hours to dig the Hardblok out of that water jacket and make a hole for the water to circulate.

Posted By: 340_Dart

Re: What's the Verdict on Hardblock? - 11/19/09 12:01 AM

What form does hardblok come in? I see it comes in 2 different sizes, one to do a short fill, and one to do a tall fill. There's only 10$ difference in price though....

Posted By: maximum entropy

Re: What's the Verdict on Hardblock? - 11/19/09 12:14 AM

it's a powder (like cement, without gravel- you'll have to add that yourself

) that you add water to. it's quite easy to work with.

Posted By: HPMike

Re: What's the Verdict on Hardblock? - 11/19/09 12:26 AM

Quote:

It's just a drag car , so I think I'll look into doing a short fill this winter

For that reason you should be doing a tall fill. Mopar blocks are particularly thin and it's really hard to find one with real sturdy walls. IMO a short fill is little more than a "better than nothing" deal on a dedicated drag car. It's not just for durability sake, there is power to be had in stable bores.

MB

Posted By: savoyracer

Re: What's the Verdict on Hardblock? - 11/19/09 02:37 AM

Quote:

I ran a filled iron block for years. It actually made the motor cool faster between rounds. As stated earlier, this is for race use only, not the street. I also agree that Hardblok is the only product to use.

Get the block VERY level and keep the filler at least 1" below the water jackets. One of my blocks was done by a local machine shop. They had the block on an engine stand that drooped in the front and got the filler up too high in the back, blocking one of the rear water jackets. I didn't catch the problem until it had caused two heads to crack from the overheating. It took me over 8 hours to dig the Hardblok out of that water jacket and make a hole for the water to circulate.

...........same thing happened to me, I caught it in time, and made the machinist dig it out.

Posted By: blownzoom440

Re: What's the Verdict on Hardblock? - 11/19/09 02:42 AM

what happined to embeco 885 grout?

Posted By: onebadstepside

Re: What's the Verdict on Hardblock? - 11/19/09 02:49 AM

I have a question about the hardblock....Can you get away with a short fill on limited street driving with a oil cooler...say no more than 30-40 miles at a time?thanks for any information

Posted By: dodgeboy11

Re: What's the Verdict on Hardblock? - 11/19/09 03:02 AM

Quote:

I have a question about the hardblock....Can you get away with a short fill on limited street driving with a oil cooler...say no more than 30-40 miles at a time?thanks for any information

Run an extra capacity oil pan and that oil cooler isn't a bad idea either. The hard blok also stabilizes the bottom of the block and keeps the bearing clearances constant. I say go for it and run an oil temp gauge.

Posted By: 65dragnet

Re: What's the Verdict on Hardblock? - 11/19/09 10:57 AM

What's considered a tall fill and how do you cool the heads ?

Posted By: an8sec70cuda

Re: What's the Verdict on Hardblock? - 11/19/09 12:36 PM

A tall fill is usually up to an inch or so below the deck surface. The heads always have water circulating through them like normal, that doesn't change. Unless you fill the block too high and the water gets blocked from getting up to the heads. CHIP

Posted By: 70dusterjohn

Re: What's the Verdict on Hardblock? - 11/19/09 12:42 PM

We did a short fill to the bottom of the freeze plugs. Now I do still dirve the car on the street. I take it to cruse nights all the time around here. Which I live in the middle of no-where so its a 30 to 40 min trip one way. I do run an oil cooler also. I've had no problems at all.

Posted By: Kelob_pie

Re: What's the Verdict on Hardblock? - 11/19/09 03:50 PM

I have mine filled 1/2" above the tops of the freeze plugs on my 440, no issues yet, except that my cooling is almost too good now.

Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: What's the Verdict on Hardblock? - 11/19/09 06:24 PM

The bad thing about using any filler in a block is that the cylinder walls above the filler are at a different tempature than the wall portion below the filler do to coolant circulation, there is no coolant flow in the fill

I have measured a block on the engine dyno that was 120 F above the fill and 180 F at and below the fill level, that makes the cylinder walls expand differently also. The measurements where done with a hand held infra red gun

You can feel the heat differences with your hand also

I know guys that run filled blocks and swear by them, I have also out ran them in the same NHRA Stock class(B/SA) with no fill in my motor

Posted By: Gearbox

Re: What's the Verdict on Hardblock? - 11/20/09 03:05 AM

Embeco 885 or Hard block what difference is there in the two products ?