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Does gear ratio change impact torque converter ?

Posted By: A990

Does gear ratio change impact torque converter ? - 10/21/09 11:16 PM

Okay imagine a highly optimized race car thats setup with 4.56 gears. Then change to a 3.55 gear. Will that make the TC less effective on the launch? By much or so little it wont matter?

Im debating a combo that will have a 3.92, 4.10 or 4.56 gear choice. How much will the TC role play in such a senario?

Any input is appreciated
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: Does gear ratio change impact torque converter ? - 10/22/09 12:29 AM

Quote:

Okay imagine a highly optimized race car thats setup with 4.56 gears. Then change to a 3.55 gear. Will that make the TC less effective on the launch? By much or so little it wont matter?

Im debating a combo that will have a 3.92, 4.10 or 4.56 gear choice. How much will the TC role play in such a senario?

Any input is appreciated




It wont change the torque converter... BUT you will
see a difference in total torque(torque of the engine
hasnt changed which will effect the converter)
but the total torque will (engine torque x converter,
usually 2 x at launch x gear in the trans x the
rear ratio and then tire diameter)
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Does gear ratio change impact torque converter ? - 10/22/09 02:54 AM

It makes the converter multiply torque longer by going to a higher gear........

I've done a LOT of converter/gear ratio testing and I've seen very little, if ANY ET change by going to a higher gear IF if the converter is right for the motor.........

On your contemplated build up, what's the car weigh, what's the motor buildup, what converter is in it, and what's it ET and MPH now?

Small, high RPM, peaky motor will have a larger ET loss than a big, low RPM torque motor.......
Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: Does gear ratio change impact torque converter ? - 10/22/09 03:17 AM

Quote:

Small, high RPM, peaky motor will have a larger ET loss than a big, low RPM torque motor.......


High RPM peaky motors need more gear as witnessed at the track for many years and my actual expereinces in changing rear gear ratio in my 518 C.I. low deck stroker motor. My Duster with the 518 motor ran almost identical ET and MPH with 3:73,3:91 and 4:10 using the same converter It seemed like it spent a lot longer time in third gear and the motor seemed lazy with the 3:73 versue the higher ratio but the time slips where the same IHTH
Posted By: A990

Re: Does gear ratio change impact torque converter ? - 10/22/09 08:29 PM

The combo will be a 99 Dakota R/T regular cab, and its kinda heavy (like 4,000 lbs).
I'm looking into turbocharging it, going through the 5.9 and getting some better heads and cam. It will be dual purpose, mostly street, but since the EFI will need tweaked, I'm gonna get rid of the lockup convertor for something matched with turbo spoolup and so forth.
The RT folks most always switch to 4.56 gears, but if my setup will be OK on the stock 3.92s, I see no reason to switch.

Based on street use, I dont think an 8" converter will be ideal though lol

Thanks for the replies
Ken
Posted By: gregsdart

Re: Does gear ratio change impact torque converter ? - 10/22/09 08:59 PM

Once you included "turbo" in the combo, everything changes, and big. A turbo motor will have so much more torque the 3.92 gears may even be too much . How much boost you going to put to it? How tall is the low gear ratio?
Posted By: A990

Re: Does gear ratio change impact torque converter ? - 10/22/09 11:03 PM

Thats why Im trying to wrap my head around the TC and gearing part.

fwiw I have a SRT-4 and that little thing is a wonderful road trip car. It flattens 6,8,10% grades and made me a believer in turbocharging.

So turbo RT Daks have been around awhile, but I'm gathering info to build a well fleshed out all around truck.

Boost-wise Im thinking maybe 10 max. The SRT-4 gets in the 12lb range occasionally, but I dunno if that will be ideal for a home-brew setup

Thoughts?

Ken
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: Does gear ratio change impact torque converter ? - 10/22/09 11:06 PM

Quote:

Once you included "turbo" in the combo, everything changes, and big. A turbo motor will have so much more torque the 3.92 gears may even be too much . How much boost you going to put to it? How tall is the low gear ratio?




With a turbo you will increase the torque
of the engine(will depend on the boost)which in change
WILL change the stall of the converter
Posted By: 70Cuda383

Re: Does gear ratio change impact torque converter ? - 10/22/09 11:17 PM

be prepared for mid 11s EASY with that truck, even if it DOES weigh 4,000 lbs.

there's a guy on Dakota-Durango.com with a 408 stroker, Turbo Dakota R/T, just ran a best of 10.5 last weekend

and what makes me feel good about it, he did it on the same "stock" 9.25 axle that I'm running!
Posted By: 70Cuda383

Re: Does gear ratio change impact torque converter ? - 10/22/09 11:19 PM

here's his link:

http://www.dakota-durango.com/forum/showthread.php?t=98737


if you're gonna do a turbo Dakota...I'd start by talking to this guy!
Posted By: A990

Re: Does gear ratio change impact torque converter ? - 10/23/09 12:50 AM

WOW, 10.50@130+ is bookin right along, and in a clubcab at that.

I knew 9.25s are good axles, but it makes 8.75s look lame

I got lots of research still to do, but I guess I'd start somewhere.

Wonder then if 3.73s or 3.55s would work even better. I presume the other truck is running Cal-tracs?
Posted By: 70Cuda383

Re: Does gear ratio change impact torque converter ? - 10/23/09 01:14 AM

I don't know what suspension mods he has done. but yea, probably running cal-tracs.

he's just on the stock 3.92s but upgraded the diff to a detroit from the stock LSD.

he's still on the stock drive shafts, and as far as I know, a relatively stock trans, but I may be wrong about the trans.



as far as gears, I went with 4.56s in my NA big block dakota, and on street tires, 1st gear is a waste, it'll roast 2nd gear from a 20-30 mph roll, but with my TKO, it'll still do 75mph down the freeway at a leisurely 2500 rpm.

going to the track this weekend to see what it'll do, but I don't have any good tires to put under it, so I'm gonna be peddaling it hard!
Posted By: patrick

Re: Does gear ratio change impact torque converter ? - 10/23/09 11:32 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Okay imagine a highly optimized race car thats setup with 4.56 gears. Then change to a 3.55 gear. Will that make the TC less effective on the launch? By much or so little it wont matter?

Im debating a combo that will have a 3.92, 4.10 or 4.56 gear choice. How much will the TC role play in such a senario?

Any input is appreciated




It wont change the torque converter... BUT you will
see a difference in total torque(torque of the engine
hasnt changed which will effect the converter)
but the total torque will (engine torque x converter,
usually 2 x at launch x gear in the trans x the
rear ratio and then tire diameter)





theoretically, going from say a 4.56 to a 3.23, shouldn't it stall *slightly* higher because you've changed the mechanical advantage on the output side, similarly to a TC should stall slightly higher in a heavier car than a lighter car if they have the same drivetrain?
Posted By: BobR

Re: Does gear ratio change impact torque converter ? - 10/23/09 01:29 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Okay imagine a highly optimized race car thats setup with 4.56 gears. Then change to a 3.55 gear. Will that make the TC less effective on the launch? By much or so little it wont matter?

Im debating a combo that will have a 3.92, 4.10 or 4.56 gear choice. How much will the TC role play in such a senario?

Any input is appreciated




It wont change the torque converter... BUT you will
see a difference in total torque(torque of the engine
hasnt changed which will effect the converter)
but the total torque will (engine torque x converter,
usually 2 x at launch x gear in the trans x the
rear ratio and then tire diameter)





theoretically, going from say a 4.56 to a 3.23, shouldn't it stall *slightly* higher because you've changed the mechanical advantage on the output side, similarly to a TC should stall slightly higher in a heavier car than a lighter car if they have the same drivetrain?




Going from 4.56 to a 3.23 will make the converter less efficient(slip more) and vise versa.
Posted By: can.al

Re: Does gear ratio change impact torque converter ? - 10/23/09 04:34 PM

I had my converter built for my engine/duster combo by one of the popular companies and am very pleased.
Thought I'd change from yhe 3.23 rear to a 3.55 so I asked what effect it would have.The builder told me my flash stahl would go from about 3000 to about 2800.Also mentioned they would re-adjust if necessary........al
Posted By: BobR

Re: Does gear ratio change impact torque converter ? - 10/23/09 05:10 PM

Quote:

I had my converter built for my engine/duster combo by one of the popular companies and am very pleased.
Thought I'd change from yhe 3.23 rear to a 3.55 so I asked what effect it would have.The builder told me my flash stahl would go from about 3000 to about 2800.Also mentioned they would re-adjust if necessary........al




Sounds about right.
Posted By: Shaker223

Re: Does gear ratio change impact torque converter ? - 10/23/09 06:53 PM

When it comes to turbos....less is more sometimes. They make brutal torque down low and it comes on fast. My engine is RPM limited but my fastest pass came with 2.76 gears. (previously had 2.94 and before that 3.23) Also, turbos like load. Over on turbomustangs.com, I believe it is Duner who launches his stick dakota in 2nd.
Posted By: Duner

Re: Does gear ratio change impact torque converter ? - 10/26/09 04:10 PM

I'm another of the Dakota guys running a turbo. '99 Dakota at 4195# with me in it.

Your description sounds just like my 5.9 truck. Heads and cam change with M1 intake and turbo. I'm still running the 3.92 gears, but went to a 29" tire for more contact patch and a little less gear. I broke the factory limited slip so now run a Detroit Locker. I'm running a 4,000 Precision Industries Viper convertor that's still a lockup with my RE46 trans. The lockup portion is electronically controlled, so it doesn't come into play on the track, but allows me to drive on the street without the stall convertor heating the trans fluid up since it's locked up at speed.
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