700 HP small block

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A friend went 9.0's at 2450 in a 70 cuda just on gas with little b1ba heads. We figured at that weight he was about 620 real horsepower. So you were about 150 pounds heavier than he was.

Please, let's only talk about first hand experience here, not a friend of a friend blah, blah, blah. You know all racers are liars he probaby weighs 2200lb!!lol And we are supposed to believe someone who list there car as having "bicycle tires" does that is some weird way make you feel good??

fyi, my car actually weighed 2650+ lbs, had a huge frontal area and burned up high gear clutches when it ran those #'s. Ask Laverne, he saw the trans first hand. things the Moroso calculator can not figure in...

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But your allowed to "think" whatever you want...

Amen to that!
I think ou812 has a clue

No, its not idle talk, and many members on here are intimately familiar with the car, its weight, and its combo.He racedit at many Classi events in super pro, and at 131 forever.

It is soon to come back out with a w9 motor Best machine built and Dyno'ed that makes the kinda power your "w5 motor" made..We will see how far in the 8's it runs on gas.

So if your car at 150 pounda heavier ran the same numberS on injected alky as his diD, you are way off at 741 ponies.

This very subject was beat to death on one of Ryans thread several years ago, .

Your car ran good, but 741 horse is a dream you need to let go of one of these years, Wayne.

Yes the car went 9.03@146, and weighs 2450, all with 400 cubes and b1 heads. So B3 was right.

Posted By: ccarson

Re: 700 HP small block - 10/09/09 04:44 AM

Their are No Stupid questions: the 48 Deg Block does straighten out the pushrods, it also gets the pushrods away from the outer wall of the intake port which allows more agressive porting.
Our W9 Heads have large notches on the outer wall of the intake port for pushrod clearance on a 59 Deg. block.

Posted By: Irun5snd8th

Re: 700 HP small block - 10/09/09 05:07 AM

According to the calculators my car has to be making near 620 HP to push 3000 lbs to 9.80's at 133. I have eddies on mine so I seriously cannot believe that it would be that difficult to get 700 out of a good set of heads.

Posted By: jb15

Re: 700 HP small block - 10/09/09 09:34 AM

Just curious

what do you think my engine would dyno??? stroked to 408,stock 360 block with INDY, hand ported 360-2 heads,car run a best of 9.16 at 145 mph with 1.26 60fts, race weight 2,800 lbs... Jim

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Posted By: meus31

Re: 700 HP small block - 10/09/09 12:12 PM

Well i think it depends on how set on kill the motor is . a customer of mine had ray barton build him a 9 inch deck height 440 r3 small block . now i know yes it is a 48 degree block . but it has 4 year old indy -1s not the new raised port stuff but i know ray did a considerable amount more port work after receiving them from indy. its 14 to 1 on c 16 single dominator but it has a very low drag ring pack motor made peak power at 6900 and was 754 i forget what the torque was . car has 1 7/8 to 2 to 2 1/8 step headers 30 inches long with merge collectors and a vacumn pump and such . car weighs 2925 with driver and has run a best of 9.09 at 146 with a 1.23 sixty foot. this has been a killer motor no problems for three years racing two classes every weekend. its a 67 valiant back half car with a full stock interior still except the back seat and a 904 to . by the way know problems with the tranny either .

Posted By: DakFink

Re: 700 HP small block - 10/09/09 12:17 PM

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Any 59* 700 hp combos around, whats it take to do? Is there a point of no return on the 59* block?

There are a few around. I don't know any personally but run across them occasionally.

What it takes??

Well that all depends on what your after and how much $$$$ you want to spend.

You want N/A, Nitrous or Boost????

Why are you sticking with a 59* block? If you already have a Block understandable. If your starting from scratch might as well get a 48* if you can. Easier head options available to work with.

Point of No Return. I guess your really asking HP limit. Well that all depends? What block you use, how you make that power and what you use it for.

There are at least 3-4 Flavors of 59* block that I know of (maybe more) Factory LA, Magnum R-3, Resto-Blocks and the X-Block can all be had in 59* flavor as far as I know.

As far as the easiest way to get a 700+hp Mopar Small Block. As was stated!! R5-P7 Nascar Motor.

Not sure how much they are going for now, but they were about $6500 complete and running about 2 yrs ago. Granted that was NASCAR Running. Not something you would put straight into a driver.

If your looking to build? There are some top-notch builder on here.

If your just curious?! Might want to check out some other Mopar pages as well.

Posted By: jim sciortino

Re: 700 HP small block - 10/09/09 02:00 PM

I find it hard to believe that a 400+ ci W-5 couldn't hit an honest 700.

Posted By: B3422W5

Re: 700 HP small block - 10/09/09 02:24 PM

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I find it hard to believe that a 400+ ci W-5 couldn't hit an honest 700.

Not meaning to brag, but i think my W5 motor runs as good as pretty much anybodies around.

I have pretty much stock suspension, cheap shocks, and have been almost 135 at 3350 pounds with a 727.

I MIGHT be at 640 honest horse. I think with a hair bigger cam and a better set of headers there might be another 20-30 horse there, but i dont see 60. I might be wrong.

throw alky at it, it might get closer, i am sure.

Posted By: Mr 5 Speed

Re: 700 HP small block - 10/09/09 02:48 PM

My Duster is a stock block stroked to 393 inches. Ran 9.63 last weekend at 139. It weighs 3230 with me. This combo has been together (freshened every other year) for over 14 years. I don't race a dyno but on the calculators that some of you have posted up, I'm over the requested HP.
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2468359

Posted By: KOS

Re: 700 HP small block - 10/09/09 02:57 PM

no dyno time but 137mph @3400lbs stock suspension dart 727 dana 60 with 11%converter slip.cnc 230s under 440".i think it would make 700hp on most dynos.

Posted By: emarine01

Re: 700 HP small block - 10/09/09 03:01 PM

The reason for the post was, I ran into a chevy 434cid dyno sheet bragging contest @ a local builders shop the other day and got to see the dyno #s on alot of the trucks and rails we run with

Every one was over 700 ponies from all different builders with a guy Scott Scharoff< I think that was the builders name not sure of the spelling but sounds like the russian vodka> having built several of the engines, all in the low 700hp range under 8K, It seems that if I step up a class my W5 rig wont be too competitive @ around 600hp, my engine has not been on a dyno so I don't know the real hp of my engine but I think 600 is close, some of the trucks I have already out run in the past but the rails and the light jeeps kick butt, So I have been kickin around what it will take to build a 700hp small bock mopar to compete, I have a good set of W5s that flow 325@ 600 and I dont remember the 700 flow #s but there was a small increase over 600, I don't trust my 40 year old factory block or the 6 other small blocks I have collected to run a bore over 4.06, I have a good 4"light crank and a set of BME 6.123 rods and several solid rollers I can reuse, just lacking a solid game plan, money is a bit tight this year so throwing 12k into a small block is not a smart option, this is a mud motor so the torque needs to be way up with the hp curve

Posted By: RyanJ

Re: 700 HP small block - 10/09/09 03:01 PM

Just depends on the dyno. 340Ricks old 416 W5 on pump gas made 676? on Kammer & Kammer's dyno. That was pretty basic mild combo. On that dyno, it would have been pretty easy to make couple changes to motor & hit 700+.

If combo's are not ran on same dyno, there is no sense in trying to compare #s.

I see over on Yellowbullet one of this years Engine Masters competitors talking about how for some reason this year the dynos @ the contest are reading way low for everybody, & I pretty much figured that out after day 1. There's a pair of dyno's that are reading different this year compared to last..... Maybe they are new DTS's but I doubt it, I assume they are the exact same ones as used for last couple years & for some reason they now read lower than in years past?

That's why I always ask potential customers 2 questions whenever they start spouting off about how much HP they "need" or "want".... I ask how much is car going to weigh, & how fast does it need to go? & I know based on experience what it will take to make it run the #. Sometimes what they want is unachievable... often times they are surprised when I tell them, Oh you don't need nearly as much power as you think to run those #'s. Everyone with a 3000-3100LB car thinks they need 700 HP to run a 9.90 or 10.0... & you don't.

Don your W5 motor put on Kammer&Kammer, or BES's Dyno would make at least 690's as it sits, throw a vacuum pump on or maybe convert intake to 4500 flange & it would be easy over 700 on those dynos. It's just a # & is'nt worth arguing about.

Posted By: Brian Hafliger

Re: 700 HP small block - 10/09/09 03:11 PM

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The reason for the post was, I ran into a chevy 434cid dyno sheet bragging contest @ a local builders shop the other day and got to see the dyno #s on alot of the trucks and rails we run with Every one was over 700 ponies from all different builders with a guy Scott Scharoff< I think that was the builders name not sure of the spelling but sounds like the russian vodka> having built several of the engines, all in the low 700hp range under 8K, It seems that if I step up a class my W5 rig wont be too competitive @ around 600hp, my engine has not been on a dyno so I don't know the real hp of my engine but I think 600 is close, some of the trucks I have already out run in the past but the rails and the light jeeps kick butt, So I have been kickin around what it will take to build a 700hp small bock mopar to compete, I have a good set of W5s that flow 325@ 600 and I dont remember the 700 flow #s but there was a small increase over 600, I don't trust my 40 year old factory block or the 6 other small blocks I have collected to run a bore over 4.06, I have a good 4"light crank and a set of BME 6.123 rods and several solid rollers I can reuse, just lacking a solid game plan, money is a bit tight this year so throwing 12k into a small block is not a smart option, this is a mud motor so the torque needs to be way up with the hp curve

If you find a nice block, and use your parts you should be able to be competitive with your competition from what you've stated.
The heads might need a little attention, and you may need a vacume pump/low drag ring pack and you might not.
Can you strike a deal with these dyno guys to dyno the engine before and after?
I do this alot, charge the customer alot less to do the engine before and after, on same dyno to see the gains and find out how much you had from the start.
Just a thought....

Posted By: MegaDart

Re: 700 HP small block - 10/09/09 05:03 PM

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I do this alot, charge the customer alot less to do the engine before and after, on same dyno to see the gains and find out how much you had from the start.

That is a great idea, something I've always wanted to do but have not. But, every race motor I have gets put on a dyno before going in my cars.

Posted By: emarine01

Re: 700 HP small block - 10/09/09 05:52 PM

I have dyno #s from a partnership that didn't quite work out from a few years ago, the dyno #s were 659hp and 588ft lbs, this was with my heads and cam intake & carb in a 416" with steel rods flat tops 0 deck my combo is 414" flat tops and .018 in the hole for the bme rods, we have dropped cam duration from 280 to 260 @.050 last year to keep the rpm down to 7k max with the hope of more torque, engine seems to run the same times after some tuning and tire changes just less rpm,I just had a x block sonic tested and was worse in some spots than the 360 block we are running now @ 4.06

good thig was it was cheep but it does seem ya get what ya pay for in the end, What is the best block to build from for 700hp?

Posted By: Brian Hafliger

Re: 700 HP small block - 10/09/09 05:57 PM

I would only use an R block, either R1 if you can find one, or R3. I think there is an R1 on here right now for sale in Tx maybe??

When I do a W5 head, I remove the original seats and replace them because they are prone to moving/falling out!
But I think you have good enough parts (minus the cam maybe) to do what you want, with a little more work.

Posted By: B3422W5

Re: 700 HP small block - 10/09/09 06:05 PM

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I would only use an R block, either R1 if you can find one, or R3. I think there is an R1 on here right now for sale in Tx maybe??

When I do a W5 head, I remove the original seats and replace them because they are prone to moving/falling out!
But I think you have good enough parts (minus the cam maybe) to do what you want, with a little more work.

R blocks are fine

That said, i like the X blocks, reason being they are stock up top and will accept anybodies roller lifters, which is a plus,(in the 59 degree and roller cam world) and accesories, etc, are plenty beefy to handle anything a 59 degree head can dish out, and are lighter than an R3

Like any block, they should be sonic checked, mine has plenty of meat for another overbore and its currently at 4.100. Like any Mopar blocks, the thickness varies, hence why they all should be checked.I know guys running them at 4.125 even, and making good power with safe bore thickness.

Posted By: SB449VALIANT

Re: 700 HP small block - 10/09/09 06:14 PM

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I would only use an R block, either R1 if you can find one, or R3. I think there is an R1 on here right now for sale in Tx maybe??

When I do a W5 head, I remove the original seats and replace them because they are prone to moving/falling out!
But I think you have good enough parts (minus the cam maybe) to do what you want, with a little more work.

R blocks are fine

That said, i like the X blocks, reason being they are stock up top and will accept anybodies roller lifters, which is a plus,(in the 59 degree and roller cam world) and accesories, etc, are plenty beefy to handle anything a 59 degree head can dish out, and are lighter than an R3

Like any block, they should be sonic checked, mine has plenty of meat for another overbore and its currently at 4.100. Like any Mopar blocks, the thickness varies, hence why they all should be checked.I know guys running them at 4.125 even, and making good power with safe bore thickness.

Same thing here., my x block bore is 4.100 and it can take the 4.125 safetly....i guess..lol

Posted By: emarine01

Re: 700 HP small block - 10/09/09 06:16 PM

I am not up to par on small block , blocks, is there a thread with a good description of the blocks , years or current availability and how much machine work ya gota do to make some power with one? We had to put a ton of time in money in the 360 block between line hone, steel caps,decking, bushed lifters, oiling mod, ect...

Posted By: W5Duster436

Re: 700 HP small block - 10/09/09 06:17 PM

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I am not up to par on small block , blocks, is there a thread with a good description of the blocks , years or current availability and how much machine work ya gota do to make some power with one? We had to put a ton of time in money in the 360 block between line hone, steel caps,decking, bushed lifters, oiling mod, ect...

Ryan has an excellent FAQ about all this but currently his domain/website is unavailable.

Posted By: RyanJ

Re: 700 HP small block - 10/09/09 07:43 PM

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I am not up to par on small block , blocks, is there a thread with a good description of the blocks , years or current availability and how much machine work ya gota do to make some power with one? We had to put a ton of time in money in the 360 block between line hone, steel caps,decking, bushed lifters, oiling mod, ect...

Ryan has an excellent FAQ about all this but currently his domain/website is unavailable.

Yeah not sure why it's not back up yet... I'll get Dave on that on Monday. It usually does not take this long to come back up....

Posted By: emarine01

Re: 700 HP small block - 10/09/09 10:44 PM

What kind of sonic #s are you guys seeing with what block and what bore? Mostly interested in major thrust around halfway down the bore, are the race blocks prone to core shift also , are all there blocks hit or miss on a thick one?

Posted By: Brian Hafliger

Re: 700 HP small block - 10/09/09 10:56 PM

So far the older R1 blocks I've tested have been very good. Normally I see a min. of .210 on thrust and .280 non thrust at 4.060 bore.

R3's I've seen all over the place. Can't even remember that last time I saw an X block...I think maybe back in the 80's?? LOL!

Posted By: demon454

Re: 700 HP small block - 10/10/09 01:45 AM

I right now am building a R3 59' block to make 700 plus.It's a 454 stroker B1BA MC's flowing in the 360 range at 700 lift,W8 420 intake cut to fit 12.5 to 13.0 comp.1150 Dale Cubic carb,Haven't decided if i should dyno or not.

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Posted By: onebaddakota

Re: 700 HP small block - 10/10/09 02:06 AM

I'm surprised no one has considered the new SB hemi. I know just from the head flow, the potential is there. They are now making kits up to 440 cubes for the 6.1L block. I believe Arrington even sells a pump gas, hyd roller crate motor that puts out 640HP

Posted By: HotRodDave

Re: 700 HP small block - 10/10/09 02:23 AM

To the best of my understanding the valve train (hydraulic rollers and non-adjustable rockers)is the big hold up for high RPMs from a new hemi, the only replacement for RPM is cubic inches, that being said what is the theoretical max displacement from a 5.7 or 6.1 ? If 440 is the most cubes and 7000 is the most RPM it just might not be possible yet...

I do have to agree though they definately have the head flow