What happened to these lifters?

Posted By: DLP4

What happened to these lifters? - 09/17/09 01:41 AM

ok, I got the lifters out the 472 hemi and this is what I found. It looks like the lifters galled and got stuck first then wiped the lobes then bent the valves. I don't understand, I never had low oil pressure problems. The lifter bores are not bushed or resricted from oil. These two lifters were directly across from each other on oposite sides of the engine. This was a Comp Cams 24-308-4 .557/.540 250 @ .050. What do you think?

Posted By: rowin4

Re: What happened to these lifters? - 09/17/09 01:55 AM

Looks like the lifters didn't rotate .If the lifter is stuck in one position the cam will grind it off. In the picture ,is that rust on the lifter?

Posted By: DLP4

Re: What happened to these lifters? - 09/17/09 02:45 AM

Quote:

Looks like the lifters didn't rotate .If the lifter is stuck in one position the cam will grind it off. In the picture ,is that rust on the lifter?

No rust. That's chewed up metal from galling. If you look at the one on the right the lifter was already galled pretty good but only had slight wear on the face indicating the galling happened first and prevented it from spinning. Then it started eating the lobe. That's why I'm thinking it was a lifter oiling problem

Posted By: sixpackgut

Re: What happened to these lifters? - 09/17/09 02:49 AM

the galling appears to be where the oil gallery is, maybe the bore needs to be checked there and honed

Posted By: rowin4

Re: What happened to these lifters? - 09/17/09 02:51 AM

Quote:

ok, I got the lifters out the 472 hemi and this is what I found. It looks like the lifters galled and got stuck first then wiped the lobes then bent the valves. I don't understand, I never had low oil pressure problems. The lifter bores are not bushed or resricted from oil. These two lifters were directly across from each other on oposite sides of the engine. This was a Comp Cams 24-308-4 .557/.540 250 @ .050. What do you think?

I was looking at the side of the lifters on the question about the rust

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: What happened to these lifters? - 09/17/09 03:17 AM

it's ahrd to tell from that picture, but if that's galling, it appears to be right in the area where the oil gallery intersects with the lifter bore. is ther some sharp edges there, or perhaps the lifter bores are not properly sized for clearance as well.

Posted By: DLP4

Re: What happened to these lifters? - 09/17/09 03:21 AM

Here's another shot. The galling is in two places on each lifer and is directly on either side of the oil gallery. I don't have tools to measure the lifter bores but when I slid a "good" lifter into the bad bore it slid right thru

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: What happened to these lifters? - 09/17/09 03:27 AM

Quote:

Here's another shot. The galling is in two places on each lifer and is directly on either side of the oil gallery. I don't have tools to measure the lifter bores but when I slid a "good" lifter into the bad bore it slid right thru

what brand of block, what brand of lifters and what does the lifter bores look like? have you measured them or the lifters?

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: What happened to these lifters? - 09/17/09 03:29 AM

can you rotate the lifters and take another pic like the last one to show the galling on the other side?

Posted By: DLP4

Re: What happened to these lifters? - 09/17/09 03:40 AM

Quote:

what brand of block, what brand of lifters and what does the lifter bores look like? have you measured them or the lifters?

Comp Cam lifters and a MP 426 block. Bores are chewed up the same on either side of the oil gallery

All I can do is use a good lifter as a "go/no-go" gauge and a good lifter slides thru easily. How do you measure lifter bores anyway? With no-go pins?

I was going to take another shot trying to show both gall spots but they are 180 degree apart so I can only capture one at a time in a picture. The oposite sides look the same

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: What happened to these lifters? - 09/17/09 05:13 AM

i only expected to see one side at a time. are all the lifter bores galled or just those two?

i was also looking at how the wear goes all the way to the edge of the lifter, almost like the lfter is too loose in the bore, or indexed incorrectly, or both. typically galling would occur from lack of oil and from being too tight in the bore though. can you get a picture of the lifter bore?

Posted By: DLP4

Re: What happened to these lifters? - 09/17/09 07:29 AM

This is both sides of the same lifter bore.

In a previous post 1_WILD_RT told me about ZDDP being removed from oil. I wasn't aware and was using Castrol GTX. Could it be as simple as using the wrong oil?

Dan, I went to look at your catalog and there were script errors and pictures not showing up, just red "X"s. Might want to fix it

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: What happened to these lifters? - 09/17/09 10:06 AM

the length of the wear on the lifters seems to correlate to the amount of cam lift from the bottom of the lifter bore upwards. check the bottom of all the lifter bores for sharp edges. you mentioned that a new lifter falls right through. you could use a snap guage and a mic to measure the bores, or a burnishing ball as a go/ no guage guage. do other lifter bores show the same wear, even if it's not as bad as the one in the picture?
anyway, normal side loading in a properly sized bore without sharp edges shouldn't have those issues. check size, roundness and look for sharp edges. i bet the root cause of the problem becomes evident very quickly.

Posted By: S/ST 3040

Re: What happened to these lifters? - 09/17/09 11:44 AM

Is it possible there was machining residue or sand left in the oil galley?
Were these from cylinders #7 or #8?

Posted By: JohnRR

Re: What happened to these lifters? - 09/17/09 12:48 PM

Quote:

Is it possible there was machining residue or sand left in the oil galley?
Were these from cylinders #7 or #8?

That is completely possible , not sure if this is an store bought crate motor but I took apart my Hemi Crate motor because I didn't want to see something like this happen to it , I found one lifter that would not rotate.

Posted By: DLP4

Re: What happened to these lifters? - 09/18/09 12:46 AM

All the bores have light scuffing in the same area. These are pictures of that.

I don't have many machinist tools but I was able to use a .0005" indicator and rock one good lifter in one bad bore and 2 good bores and they all had .0015" of travel.

No burrs that I could detect. Some of the edges are sharp but not burred.

Cylinders #5 & #6 had the problem with #5 being the worst

The engine was built by a local hemi "expert". Not a crate engine.

How do you check if the lifters are rotating properly?

Posted By: 64Post

Re: What happened to these lifters? - 09/18/09 04:26 AM

Quote:

How do you check if the lifters are rotating properly?

What I do is match mark the lifter and boss then rotate the crank about 4 or 5 complete cycles. I'll look to make sure all the lifters rotated about the same amount. Don't know if that's proper, though...