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electrical help needed 69 Satellite bracket car

Posted By: rockerbob

electrical help needed 69 Satellite bracket car - 09/02/09 01:24 AM

Ok I have a good running 69 Satellite 318 powered. Last saturday night the car kept going through batteries. Changed 3 times. Here's what I know. Before I left for the race on saturday I started the car like I always do to make sure its ok. It started & idled fine, but I did notice the amp gauge was not moving much as I reved it up. Left for the race any way. Car ran very good all night other than the battery problem. Tonite when I got off work I finaly got a change to check it out. I have 15.93 volts at the alternator. 11.65 at the battery. The only thing changed recently is the alternator. Batteries both ( I cary a good spare)are less than a year old. Regulator is 8 months old (new Mopar constant outut). Alternator is new reman. The amp gauge still only flickers when I rev it up. However the negative battery post is getting hot fairly quick. Or I should say warm. I checked the ground cable to the frame (trunk mounted battery) Its tight & clean. I also have a cable from the left cylinder head to the frame in the front. It to look ok. Have been running this set up for over a year now with no problems. So it looks like my alternator is putting out sufficent curent its just not getting to the battery. Any ideas. I'm not that good at trouble shoting electrical problems.

Attached picture 5456185-Bobbracketfinals2008.jpg
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: electrical help needed 69 Satellite bracket car - 09/02/09 02:33 AM

Quote:

Ok I have a good running 69 Satellite 318 powered. Last saturday night the car kept going through batteries. Changed 3 times. Here's what I know. Before I left for the race on saturday I started the car like I always do to make sure its ok. It started & idled fine, but I did notice the amp gauge was not moving much as I reved it up. Left for the race any way. Car ran very good all night other than the battery problem. Tonite when I got off work I finaly got a change to check it out. I have 15.93 volts at the alternator. 11.65 at the battery. The only thing changed recently is the alternator. Batteries both ( I cary a good spare)are less than a year old. Regulator is 8 months old (new Mopar constant outut). Alternator is new reman. The amp gauge still only flickers when I rev it up. However the negative battery post is getting hot fairly quick. Or I should say warm. I checked the ground cable to the frame (trunk mounted battery) Its tight & clean. I also have a cable from the left cylinder head to the frame in the front. It to look ok. Have been running this set up for over a year now with no problems. So it looks like my alternator is putting out sufficent curent its just not getting to the battery. Any ideas. I'm not that good at trouble shoting electrical problems.



Put a jumper across the amp to see if its the problem.
How much of the old wiring are you still using. Could
be at the bulkhead connector(if still used)
Posted By: rockerbob

Re: electrical help needed 69 Satellite bracket car - 09/02/09 02:52 AM

I think pretty much all of the bulkhead wires are still there. I thought about the amp gauge. Its the original one. If its bad should I get another amp gauge or a volt gauge? I'm also going to check & clean all the ground connections. I'll let you know. Hope I can get it fixed before saturday. Wanted to run footbrake at Piedmont. Thanks Mike
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: electrical help needed 69 Satellite bracket car - 09/02/09 02:58 AM

Quote:

I think pretty much all of the bulkhead wires are still there. I thought about the amp gauge. Its the original one. If its bad should I get another amp gauge or a volt gauge? I'm also going to check & clean all the ground connections. I'll let you know. Hope I can get it fixed before saturday. Wanted to run footbrake at Piedmont. Thanks Mike



With a volt gauge you dont put the amps through it
(or even a percentage of amps)... better off with a
volt gauge
Posted By: rockerbob

Re: electrical help needed 69 Satellite bracket car - 09/02/09 03:03 AM

Quote:

Quote:

I think pretty much all of the bulkhead wires are still there. I thought about the amp gauge. Its the original one. If its bad should I get another amp gauge or a volt gauge? I'm also going to check & clean all the ground connections. I'll let you know. Hope I can get it fixed before saturday. Wanted to run footbrake at Piedmont. Thanks Mike



With a volt gauge you dont put the amps through it
(or even a percentage of amps)... better off with a
volt gauge





So with a volt gauge that would mean all the amps go to the battery and the volt gauge will only moniter volts & not interupt current flow. Is that right? Or am I missing something
Posted By: ITSDUSTA416

Re: electrical help needed 69 Satellite bracket car - 09/02/09 03:13 AM

The amp gauge is usually the problem, I would just bypass it or put a jumper wire across it. with MR P BODY

Attached File
5456584-THEMONEYSHOT3.bmp  (52 downloads)
Posted By: thecarfarmer

Re: electrical help needed 69 Satellite bracket car - 09/02/09 03:26 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

I think pretty much all of the bulkhead wires are still there. I thought about the amp gauge. Its the original one. If its bad should I get another amp gauge or a volt gauge? I'm also going to check & clean all the ground connections. I'll let you know. Hope I can get it fixed before saturday. Wanted to run footbrake at Piedmont. Thanks Mike



With a volt gauge you dont put the amps through it
(or even a percentage of amps)... better off with a
volt gauge





So with a volt gauge that would mean all the amps go to the battery and the volt gauge will only moniter volts & not interupt current flow. Is that right? Or am I missing something

Yup.

I've found a good way to find where the bottleneck is is to take my voltmeter and put it across the questionable area.

For instance, you have 15V at the alternator and 11V or so at the battery. This means you're losing about 4V along the line.

I'd get a helper to assist me checking across the bulkhead connector. One guy probes it from inside the car; the other from the engine side. Do this w/ everything running. Read how much voltage drop is there. Do the same w/ the ammeter gage; put the voltmeter across it. If you're losing a good portion of your 4V difference there, put a jumper across it (and I agree that a voltmeter is a better idea than an ammeter).

BTW, MAD electrical has a good article on running wires thru the bulkhead - maybe more of interest to someone who wants to keep the original look.

Good luck!

-Bill
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: electrical help needed 69 Satellite bracket car - 09/02/09 03:28 AM

So with a volt gauge that would mean all the amps go to the battery and the volt gauge will only moniter volts & not interupt current flow. Is that right? Or am I missing something



Correct..... when using a amp gauge a percentage
or even all the amps go through it.... a volt gauge
is just a sensor, you dont have to have the big wires
running to it
Posted By: rockerbob

Re: electrical help needed 69 Satellite bracket car - 09/02/09 11:00 AM

Ok thanks a lot for all the tips & info. I probably wont have time to mess with it tonite, but hopefully thrusday night I can check the amp gauge. You guys are much appreciated

Attached picture 5456941-Bobbracketfinals2008.jpg
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: electrical help needed 69 Satellite bracket car - 09/02/09 03:25 PM

Quote:

Ok thanks a lot for all the tips & info. I probably wont have time to mess with it tonite, but hopefully thrusday night I can check the amp gauge. You guys are much appreciated



The QUICK answer is to run a heavy gauge wire--at least no10, better no8--from the alternator stud to wherever your battery cable comes "up" from the trunk, as, starter relay, solenoid, etc.


the proper term is called "voltage drop" and old Mopars are now notorious. Think in your head the "path" going from the alternator stud around through the harness, to the starter relay, through the bulkhead connector, to the ammeter, a factory splice in the harness, to the ign. switch (and it's connector) AND BACK OUT through the ammeter, through the bulkhead connector AGAIN, etc etc. There's a lot of room for drop, there.

For example, put a meter probe directly on the battery positive, and, while running, put the other probe on your ign. terminal, either on the regulator, or the feed to the ignition resistor.

It should be nearly ZERO. More than about .2, that's TWO TENTHS of a volt is too much.
Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: electrical help needed 69 Satellite bracket car - 09/02/09 03:51 PM

All of the 1969 Mopars had a big electrical problem, most of it was in the bulkhead connections on the 12V feed into and out of the amp gauge All of the early Mopars,1957 to? ran all of the amps thru the amp gauge, not like the other car makers at all As Mr Pbody says you can run a volt meter instead of the amp meter but make sure you connect the two big 12V feed wires together in the engine compartment or do as already suggetsed and run a seperate feed wire from the back of the alternator to the battery direct and run a volt meter then, make sure and isolate the volt meter so it does not read with the key on If you don't it will kill the battery when it sits for a long time, don't ask me how I know I have removed the 12V feed wires from the bulhead connetors and solder them together in the engine compartment and still fed them trhu the amp gauge, which usually solves the voltage drop Lots of ways to skin the kitty
Posted By: rockerbob

Re: electrical help needed 69 Satellite bracket car - 09/02/09 04:24 PM

Quote:

So with a volt gauge that would mean all the amps go to the battery and the volt gauge will only moniter volts & not interupt current flow. Is that right? Or am I missing something



Correct..... when using a amp gauge a percentage
or even all the amps go through it.... a volt gauge
is just a sensor, you dont have to have the big wires
running to it

Well I just went out to the car & started it up so I could back it out of the trailer. And the amp gauge is now working. So once I got it out I got my volt meter & began checking. I now have 14.35 at the alt. 12.29 at the battery at idle & 12.93 at 3k I sat in the car dumbfounded as to why the gauge suddenly was working & just that quick it stop. So I reached under the dash & "jiggled" the wires & it began working again. I had the car running for a while so I'm letting it cool down (elect fan & water pump drive) I will disconect the batter & see if the terminal is loose on the back of the amp gauge. Or is this just the way they are when they are going bad. Your thought please.


Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: electrical help needed 69 Satellite bracket car - 09/02/09 04:30 PM

Well I just went out to the car & started it up so I could back it out of the trailer. And the amp gauge is now working. So once I got it out I got my volt meter & began checking. I now have 14.35 at the alt. 12.29 at the battery at idle & 12.93 at 3k I sat in the car dumbfounded as to why the gauge suddenly was working & just that quick it stop. So I reached under the dash & "jiggled" the wires & it began working again. I had the car running for a while so I'm letting it cool down (elect fan & water pump drive) I will disconect the batter & see if the terminal is loose on the back of the amp gauge. Or is this just the way they are when they are going bad. Your thought please.






Sounds like you have a intermittent issue with high
resistance... could be the amp gauge or the connectors
on it.... but your in the right area if you can make
it happen(dump the amp gauge and connect the wires)
Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: electrical help needed 69 Satellite bracket car - 09/02/09 04:56 PM

I have seen more than one stock Mopar amp gauge have the inner nut loose on the gauge , I tighten it up and the problem went away
Posted By: rockerbob

Re: electrical help needed 69 Satellite bracket car - 09/02/09 05:08 PM

Quote:

I have seen more than one stock Mopar amp gauge have the inner nut loose on the gauge , I tighten it up and the problem went away



Looks like that may be the problem. Both wire at the amp gauge are loose. I took them apart & the inner nut was also loose. I cant get either of them to tighten. I didn't want to break them off, but I'm sure they aren't going to tighten up. I put it all back together & yep the wires are still loose, but I must have helped it some because now I have 13.03 volts at the battery at idle. Amp gauge is still working. So Mike can I just hook the two wires under the dash together. Wrap them good with electrical tape & install a volt meter? If thats all I need to do then I can probably handle that. Again thanks everyone for the input. Hopefully I can run it this Saturday
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: electrical help needed 69 Satellite bracket car - 09/02/09 05:14 PM

So Mike can I just hook the two wires under the dash together. Wrap them good with electrical tape & install a volt meter? If thats all I need to do then I can probably handle that. Again thanks everyone for the input. Hopefully I can run it this Saturday



Yeah... thats the easy way of doing it but if you are
running a bigger alt(or plan to) you might want to run
a new wire
Posted By: rockerbob

Re: electrical help needed 69 Satellite bracket car - 09/02/09 05:59 PM

Quote:

So Mike can I just hook the two wires under the dash together. Wrap them good with electrical tape & install a volt meter? If thats all I need to do then I can probably handle that. Again thanks everyone for the input. Hopefully I can run it this Saturday



Yeah... thats the easy way of doing it but if you are
running a bigger alt(or plan to) you might want to run
a new wire





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