Moparts
can someone school me on setting pinion angle??
Posted By: moparmattkos
can someone school me on setting pinion angle?? - 08/23/09 02:12 PM
I need to know what the easist way to set a pinion angle with a 4 link system. I have been told to put a angel finder on the crank pulley and get the angle is that right?
Posted By: S/ST 3040
Re: can someone school me on setting pinion angle?? - 08/23/09 02:23 PM
Here's an online course.
"PINION ANGLE"
Posted By: moparniac
Re: can someone school me on setting pinion angle?? - 08/23/09 02:51 PM
Just PM Quktree or sixpackgut
Posted By: sleepyhead416
Re: can someone school me on setting pinion angle?? - 08/23/09 03:02 PM
Check out MOPARTS TECH archives. If its not there it should be seems like a weekly ? Or try search
Posted By: DemonDust
Re: can someone school me on setting pinion angle?? - 08/23/09 03:08 PM
Quote:
Just PM Quktree or sixpackgut
Yeah there is tech video on the here somewhere, very informative 
Posted By: WILD BILL
Re: can someone school me on setting pinion angle?? - 08/23/09 04:48 PM
Posted By: ProSport
Re: can someone school me on setting pinion angle?? - 08/23/09 05:38 PM
Now where's that video Dram made?
Posted By: DoctorDiff
Re: can someone school me on setting pinion angle?? - 08/23/09 05:43 PM
You are correct. Pinion angle is the relationship between the pinion centerline and the crank/transmission centerline.
Make the pinion parallel to the transmission as a base-line, then pivot the pinion downward 2-3 degrees. In other words, the resulting pinion angle will be 2-3 degrees under parallel (nose down) to the transmission centerline when the car is at rest.
BTW, there are some jokers around here who say I'm telling you to index the transmission angle relative to the pinion instead of the other way around.
Posted By: Quicktree
Re: can someone school me on setting pinion angle?? - 08/23/09 05:53 PM
Quote:
You are correct. Pinion angle is the relationship between the pinion centerline and the crank/transmission centerline.
Make the pinion parallel to the transmission as a base-line, then pivot the pinion downward 2-3 degrees. In other words, the resulting pinion angle will be 2-3 degrees under parallel (nose down) to the transmission centerline when the car is at rest.
BTW, there are some jokers around here who say I'm telling you to index the transmission angle relative to the pinion instead of the other way around.
I see a movie being made now of drdiff by the haters
Posted By: sunroofgtx
Re: can someone school me on setting pinion angle?? - 08/23/09 06:27 PM
No DR Diff hater here. I just wish he lived closer than BuzzardBreath Wyoming. I'd have a dana in my minivan !!
Posted By: Cab_Burge
Re: can someone school me on setting pinion angle?? - 08/23/09 09:05 PM
Quote:
No DR Diff hater here. I just wish he lived closer than BuzzardBreath Wyoming. I'd have a dana in my minivan !!
Bad excuse, UPS, Fed Ex abd others deliver 
get one now before Quicktree breaks all of them 
even Quicktree can't break a Dana 60 
Posted By: Quicktree
Re: can someone school me on setting pinion angle?? - 08/23/09 09:25 PM
Quote:
Quote:
No DR Diff hater here. I just wish he lived closer than BuzzardBreath Wyoming. I'd have a dana in my minivan !!
Bad excuse, UPS, Fed Ex abd others deliver get one now before Quicktree breaks all of them even Quicktree can't break a Dana 60
I am going to try like hell
Posted By: TS3303
Re: can someone school me on setting pinion angle?? - 08/23/09 09:28 PM
Quote:
I am going to try like hell
just wait for Ray to get back from his boon doggle with you know who and have him set it up.
Posted By: Quicktree
Re: can someone school me on setting pinion angle?? - 08/23/09 10:05 PM
Quote:
Quote:
I am going to try like hell
just wait for Ray to get back from his boon doggle with you know who and have him set it up.
yea but no thanks
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: can someone school me on setting pinion angle?? - 08/24/09 01:28 AM
Quote:
You are correct. Pinion angle is the relationship between the pinion centerline and the crank/transmission centerline.
Make the pinion parallel to the transmission as a base-line, then pivot the pinion downward 2-3 degrees. In other words, the resulting pinion angle will be 2-3 degrees under parallel (nose down) to the transmission centerline when the car is at rest.............
I gotta say that I respectfully disagree with doing it that way........at least with a leaf spring car anyway.........
On my cars, and anything with decent power, especially with a stick, I'd always set the pinion down 7* with relationship to the driveshaft and it's ALWAYS worked great.......but, after reading here on Moparts how I need to set it to the crank centerline by Tony (Quicktree) so many times, I decided to do it that way on my just finished 68 GTS...........but first I've got to warn you that I did put 1" spacers between the K-frame and the body to lower the engine in the car which points the tail housing up a few degrees............
I set the pinion angle 7* down from the crankshaft center line and the car was fine until I let off the gas and it howled SO BAD I thought the rearend was was going to come apart.......... 
so, thanks to all the pinion angle threads on Moparts, I had to pull the rearend back out, cut the perches off, and reweld them back on.........this time with the angle 7* down from the driveshaft and it works GREAT now.........
So, I will NEVER set pinion angle that way again.........that's my 
on this......... 
Posted By: Quicktree
Re: can someone school me on setting pinion angle?? - 08/24/09 01:38 AM
Quote:
Quote:
You are correct. Pinion angle is the relationship between the pinion centerline and the crank/transmission centerline.
Make the pinion parallel to the transmission as a base-line, then pivot the pinion downward 2-3 degrees. In other words, the resulting pinion angle will be 2-3 degrees under parallel (nose down) to the transmission centerline when the car is at rest.............
I gotta say that I respectfully disagree with doing it that way........at least with a leaf spring car anyway.........
On my cars, and anything with decent power, especially with a stick, I'd always set the pinion down 7* with relationship to the driveshaft and it's ALWAYS worked great.......but, after reading here on Moparts how I need to set it to the crank centerline by Tony (Quicktree) so many times, I decided to do it that way on my just finished 68 GTS...........but first I've got to warn you that I did put 1" spacers between the K-frame and the body to lower the engine in the car which points the tail housing up a few degrees............
I set the pinion angle 7* down from the crankshaft center line and the car was fine until I let off the gas and it howled SO BAD I thought the rearend was was going to come apart.......... so, thanks to all the pinion angle threads on Moparts, I had to pull the rearend back out, cut the perches off, and reweld them back on.........this time with the angle 7* down from the driveshaft and it works GREAT now.........
So, I will NEVER set pinion angle that way again.........that's my on this.........
ever think 7 maybe to much and I didn't invent the method. it is taught by people who run a lot faster than you or I will ever run. think about the purpose of setting pinion angle. setting it off of the drive shaft ignores the front ujoint totally. ever think the springs maybe wearing out letting the pinon go more than the desired amount? remember the guess of 7* down or what ever is just a guess. no way to figure out the perfect amount except trail and error or maybe some kind of video.
Posted By: dOrk !
Re: can someone school me on setting pinion angle?? - 08/24/09 01:47 AM
NEVER had a 4 link ... but 7 degrees ?
On a suspension that should have ZERO change of pinion angle through the up and down movement.
That type of an angle is costing power.
Posted By: Quicktree
Re: can someone school me on setting pinion angle?? - 08/24/09 01:50 AM
Quote:
Quote:
ever think 7 maybe to much and I didn't invent the method. it is taught by people who run a lot faster than you or I will ever run. think about the purpose of setting pinion angle. setting it off of the drive shaft ignores the front ujoint totally. ever think the springs maybe wearing out letting the pinon go more than the desired amount? remember the guess of 7* down or what ever is just a guess. no way to figure out the perfect amount except trail and error or maybe some kind of video.
Like I'd mentioned.......that was with a leaf spring car, and it does have slicks, and it does make close to 600HP, and I does launch like I stole it......and I doesn't want the driveshaft to smack the floor pan when I do........been there, done that.....
The thing you're forgetting is that a LOT of places recommend 6 to 7* pinion angle with a leaf spring car that's making some poop, and my car would not work doing it that way.............that's all I'm saying........
another thing, not many if any leaf cars have a motor/tranny centerline angle going up.. just something to think about before you condem the method.
Posted By: moparniac
Re: can someone school me on setting pinion angle?? - 08/24/09 01:51 AM
What about leafspring caltracs
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: can someone school me on setting pinion angle?? - 08/24/09 01:52 AM
Quote:
NEVER had a 4 link ... but 7 degrees ?
On a suspension that should have ZERO change of pinion angle through the up and down movement.
That type of an angle is costing power.
In BOTH of my replies, I said LEAF SPRINGS.........
and with the pinion angle down 7* with a 4 link, it isn't losing an ET.......but that's for another thread.......
Quote:
another thing, not many if any leaf cars have a motor/tranny centerline angle going up.. just something to think about before you condem the method.
What's that got to do with anything? What's the output shaft angle in a jacked up 4 wheel drive truck in relationship to the pinion???? UP???? 
Posted By: moparniac
Re: can someone school me on setting pinion angle?? - 08/24/09 01:52 AM
Posted By: dOrk !
Re: can someone school me on setting pinion angle?? - 08/24/09 01:56 AM
B S ...I did not read each and every post in detail...I was responding to mm's topic ...and that several people were saying 7 degrees.
And I disagree ... 7 down will cost power(maybe not much) ...on something that does-not need-it.
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: can someone school me on setting pinion angle?? - 08/24/09 01:56 AM
I've seen that drawing here on Moparts a MILLION times and I understand it completely......but I did it that way, and it howled like a stuck hog when letting off the throttle.........so I'm not doing it that way ever again.........
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: can someone school me on setting pinion angle?? - 08/24/09 01:59 AM
Quote:
B S ...I did not read each and every post in detail...I was responding to mm's topic ...and that several people were saying 7 degrees.
And I disagree ... 7 down will cost power(maybe not much) ...on something that does-not need-it.
I said it wouldn't lose ET.......and that's all that matters........as long as it doesn't go above zero, you're peeing in the ocean to raise the tide and it's not even measureable.........
Posted By: Quicktree
Re: can someone school me on setting pinion angle?? - 08/24/09 01:59 AM
Quote:
Quote:
NEVER had a 4 link ... but 7 degrees ?
On a suspension that should have ZERO change of pinion angle through the up and down movement.
That type of an angle is costing power.
In BOTH of my replies, I said LEAF SPRINGS.........
and with the pinion angle down 7* with a 4 link, it isn't losing an ET.......but that's for another thread.......
Quote:
another thing, not many if any leaf cars have a motor/tranny centerline angle going up.. just something to think about before you condem the method.
What's that got to do with anything? What's the output shaft angle in a jacked up 4 wheel drive truck in relationship to the pinion???? UP????
have no idea, never drag raced a 4 wheel drive. I hear that brought up a lot but don't know why it's mentioned when setting up a drag car. bottom line you have to do what works for you
Posted By: Hemiroid
Re: can someone school me on setting pinion angle?? - 08/24/09 02:08 AM
Quote:
Like I'd mentioned.......that was with a leaf spring car, and it does have slicks, and it does make close to 600HP, and I does launch like I stole it......and I doesn't want the driveshaft to smack the floor pan when I do........been there, done that.....
The thing you're forgetting is that a LOT of places recommend 6 to 7* pinion angle with a leaf spring car that's making some poop, and my car would not work doing it that way.............that's all I'm saying........
I'll face the firing squad with ya Big 
I've kept my mouth shut while this subject has been debated here, but for 25+ years I've done it your way and never had a problem. For a leaf spring car, I line up the driveshaft with the pinion, then push the nose of the pinion down around 5 degrees. I just leave the u-bolts loose and push the rear end where I want it, then weld the perches.
Theory-craft and books are nice, but what works in practical application in the field and what the book says don't always jibe.
Posted By: sixpackgut
Re: can someone school me on setting pinion angle?? - 08/24/09 02:08 AM
my way, Monte's way amd Wolfe race cars way
http://www.wolferacecraft.com/pinionangle.aspxenough said.
The Joker
Posted By: Quicktree
Re: can someone school me on setting pinion angle?? - 08/24/09 02:14 AM
Quote:
my way, Monte's way amd Wolfe race cars way http://www.wolferacecraft.com/pinionangle.aspx
enough said.
The Joker
enough said if you buy into that, you can also find just as many who set it the other way. really I don't care how anybody sets theirs. people have to decide for themselves and learn the hard way I guess. now go make you another movie.
Posted By: sixpackgut
Re: can someone school me on setting pinion angle?? - 08/24/09 02:23 AM
Quote:
Quote:
my way, Monte's way amd Wolfe race cars way http://www.wolferacecraft.com/pinionangle.aspx
enough said.
The Joker
enough said if you buy into that, you can also find just as many who set it the other way. really I don't care how anybody sets theirs. people have to decide for themselves and learn the hard way I guess. now go make you another movie.
untill you build a 4.70 1/8th mile stock suspension car i will keep listening to the guys who do. no need for a movie
Posted By: Quicktree
Re: can someone school me on setting pinion angle?? - 08/24/09 02:26 AM
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
my way, Monte's way amd Wolfe race cars way http://www.wolferacecraft.com/pinionangle.aspx
enough said.
The Joker
enough said if you buy into that, you can also find just as many who set it the other way. really I don't care how anybody sets theirs. people have to decide for themselves and learn the hard way I guess. now go make you another movie.
untill you build a 4.70 1/8th mile stock suspension car i will keep listening to the guys who do. no need for a movie
have at it. cause I have no desire to build a stock suspension 4.70 car.
Posted By: moparniac
Re: can someone school me on setting pinion angle?? - 08/24/09 02:29 AM
I have a dumb question as usual!
What if a guy like me
is putting in a dana 60 from previously having a 8 3/4 which I am
and dont have a driveshaft yet to go off the driveshaft method cause I need to set the car on its suspension and roll the pinion down and weld in the perches and need the rear done to get actual measuremnet for a new driveshaft
Posted By: weedlayer
Re: can someone school me on setting pinion angle?? - 08/24/09 02:29 AM
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
my way, Monte's way amd Wolfe race cars way http://www.wolferacecraft.com/pinionangle.aspx
enough said.
The Joker
enough said if you buy into that, you can also find just as many who set it the other way. really I don't care how anybody sets theirs. people have to decide for themselves and learn the hard way I guess. now go make you another movie.
untill you build a 4.70 1/8th mile stock suspension car i will keep listening to the guys who do. no need for a movie
have at it. cause I have no desire to build a stock suspension 4.70 car.
why not u sceeeeered 
Posted By: Quicktree
Re: can someone school me on setting pinion angle?? - 08/24/09 02:32 AM
Quote:
I have a dumb question as usual! What if a guy like me is putting in a dana 60 from previously having a 8 3/4 which I am and dont have a driveshaft yet to go off the driveshaft method cause I need to set the car on its suspension and roll the pinion down and weld in the perches and need the rear done to get actual measuremnet for a new driveshaft
pinion angle is the last thing you do no matter which method you use. so you will have a shaft by then or you wont be racing anyway
Posted By: Quicktree
Re: can someone school me on setting pinion angle?? - 08/24/09 02:34 AM
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
my way, Monte's way amd Wolfe race cars way http://www.wolferacecraft.com/pinionangle.aspx
enough said.
The Joker
enough said if you buy into that, you can also find just as many who set it the other way. really I don't care how anybody sets theirs. people have to decide for themselves and learn the hard way I guess. now go make you another movie.
untill you build a 4.70 1/8th mile stock suspension car i will keep listening to the guys who do. no need for a movie
have at it. cause I have no desire to build a stock suspension 4.70 car.
why not u sceeeeered
no not really, you sponsor it and I will build and drive it. how does that sound? when can I expect the first sponsor check?
Posted By: moparniac
Re: can someone school me on setting pinion angle?? - 08/24/09 02:38 AM
Updated version: 4.96
Posted By: sixpackgut
Re: can someone school me on setting pinion angle?? - 08/24/09 02:40 AM
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
my way, Monte's way amd Wolfe race cars way http://www.wolferacecraft.com/pinionangle.aspx
enough said.
The Joker
enough said if you buy into that, you can also find just as many who set it the other way. really I don't care how anybody sets theirs. people have to decide for themselves and learn the hard way I guess. now go make you another movie.
untill you build a 4.70 1/8th mile stock suspension car i will keep listening to the guys who do. no need for a movie
have at it. cause I have no desire to build a stock suspension 4.70 car.
so what do you desire? just pretending your a chassis guru?
wedgie's nonsensical chart
trans angle 2* down(like most mopars) set pinion angle 2* up. now the rear and trans centerline are in parallel. then what? what is the pinion angle at this point Mr Quicktree? is it ZERO? What if Calvert said to set pinion angle 2* down, ok, now the driveshaft is in a straight line with the pinion(a big no no on the chart) although not a big deal on a mopar because the engine is off center and there will still be movement inside the U joints BUT if the engine and rear are in line, this doesnt work. neither does setup on a stock suspension with just leaf springs.
i really wish you would explain your way better because the only lesson learned was big squeeze trying it your way and it doesnt work
Posted By: Quicktree
Re: can someone school me on setting pinion angle?? - 08/24/09 02:45 AM
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
my way, Monte's way amd Wolfe race cars way http://www.wolferacecraft.com/pinionangle.aspx
enough said.
The Joker
enough said if you buy into that, you can also find just as many who set it the other way. really I don't care how anybody sets theirs. people have to decide for themselves and learn the hard way I guess. now go make you another movie.
untill you build a 4.70 1/8th mile stock suspension car i will keep listening to the guys who do. no need for a movie
have at it. cause I have no desire to build a stock suspension 4.70 car.
so what do you desire? just pretending your a chassis guru?
wedgie's nonsensical chart
trans angle 2* down(like most mopars) set pinion angle 2* up. now the rear and trans centerline are in parallel. then what? what is the pinion angle at this point Mr Quicktree? is it ZERO? What if Calvert said to set pinion angle 2* down, ok, now the driveshaft is in a straight line with the pinion(a big no no on the chart) although not a big deal on a mopar because the engine is off center and there will still be movement inside the U joints BUT if the engine and rear are in line, this doesnt work. neither does setup on a stock suspension with just leaf springs.
i really wish you would explain your way better because the only lesson learned was big squeeze trying it your way and it doesnt work
I don't pretend to be anything, I am just an old bracket racer and do what works for me.
Posted By: sixpackgut
Re: can someone school me on setting pinion angle?? - 08/24/09 02:47 AM
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
my way, Monte's way amd Wolfe race cars way http://www.wolferacecraft.com/pinionangle.aspx
enough said.
The Joker
enough said if you buy into that, you can also find just as many who set it the other way. really I don't care how anybody sets theirs. people have to decide for themselves and learn the hard way I guess. now go make you another movie.
untill you build a 4.70 1/8th mile stock suspension car i will keep listening to the guys who do. no need for a movie
have at it. cause I have no desire to build a stock suspension 4.70 car.
why not u sceeeeered
no not really, you sponsor it and I will build and drive it. how does that sound? when can I expect the first sponsor check?
car never make it off the starting line and you would be blaming all the horsepower you make to the guys cleaning up the gear oil
Posted By: Quicktree
Re: can someone school me on setting pinion angle?? - 08/24/09 02:50 AM
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
my way, Monte's way amd Wolfe race cars way http://www.wolferacecraft.com/pinionangle.aspx
enough said.
The Joker
enough said if you buy into that, you can also find just as many who set it the other way. really I don't care how anybody sets theirs. people have to decide for themselves and learn the hard way I guess. now go make you another movie.
untill you build a 4.70 1/8th mile stock suspension car i will keep listening to the guys who do. no need for a movie
have at it. cause I have no desire to build a stock suspension 4.70 car.
why not u sceeeeered
no not really, you sponsor it and I will build and drive it. how does that sound? when can I expect the first sponsor check?
car never make it off the starting line and you would be blaming all the horsepower you make to the guys cleaning up the gear oil
oh yea? where have you ever seen me say anything about making big HP? thats something you have made up to be funny.my junk don't make a lot OF HP and I really don't care.
Posted By: sixpackgut
Re: can someone school me on setting pinion angle?? - 08/24/09 02:57 AM
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
my way, Monte's way amd Wolfe race cars way http://www.wolferacecraft.com/pinionangle.aspx
enough said.
The Joker
enough said if you buy into that, you can also find just as many who set it the other way. really I don't care how anybody sets theirs. people have to decide for themselves and learn the hard way I guess. now go make you another movie.
untill you build a 4.70 1/8th mile stock suspension car i will keep listening to the guys who do. no need for a movie
have at it. cause I have no desire to build a stock suspension 4.70 car.
why not u sceeeeered
no not really, you sponsor it and I will build and drive it. how does that sound? when can I expect the first sponsor check?
car never make it off the starting line and you would be blaming all the horsepower you make to the guys cleaning up the gear oil
oh yea? where have you ever seen me say anything about making big HP? thats something you have made up to be funny.my junk don't make a lot OF HP and I really don't care.
are you feeding me for thanksgiving 
Also, Big Squeeze, beautiful car
Posted By: moparniac
Re: can someone school me on setting pinion angle?? - 08/24/09 02:59 AM
I got $5 says quiktree gets in the last word
Posted By: DoctorDiff
Re: can someone school me on setting pinion angle?? - 08/24/09 04:27 AM
Wayne,
7 degrees is too much negative pinion angle. If you are going to quote me, please post where I told you to run that much.
This isn't rocket science. Depending on the ride height and drivetrain angle of the car, setting pinion angle off the driveshaft is purely hit or miss.
For example, assume your race car's pinion angle is set perfectly and the car has no vibration.
If you raised the engine in the front 3 degrees, changing the drivetrain angle downward, the correct way to compensate for this would be to increase the pinion angle 3 degrees POSITIVE, because it keeps the pinion parallel to what you had before.
If you tried to set the pinion angle off the driveshaft alone, you would increase the pinion angle 3 degrees NEGATIVE, most likely causing a severe vibration because of U-joint binding.
BTW, this is also the correct method to set pinion angle on a lifted 4 x 4 truck with a 1 piece driveshaft:
1. Make the pinion parallel to the transmsission.
2. If pinion binds, lower transmission in the rear.
3. Reset pinion parallel to transmission.
4. If pinion still binds, install a CV joint on the transmission, and point the pinion directly toward the CV joint.
Posted By: 493_DART
Re: can someone school me on setting pinion angle?? - 08/24/09 06:06 AM
"oh yea? where have you ever seen me say anything about making big HP? thats something you have made up to be funny.my junk don't make a lot OF HP and I really don't care. "
So then your pinion angle is set wrong if you are breaking rear ends .
Posted By: sixpackgut
Re: can someone school me on setting pinion angle?? - 08/24/09 06:06 AM
Quote:
Wayne,
7 degrees is too much negative pinion angle. If you are going to quote me, please post where I told you to run that much.
This isn't rocket science. Depending on the ride height and drivetrain angle of the car, setting pinion angle off the driveshaft is purely hit or miss.
For example, assume your race car's pinion angle is set perfectly and the car has no vibration.
If you raised the engine in the front 3 degrees, changing the drivetrain angle downward, the correct way to compensate for this would be to increase the pinion angle 3 degrees POSITIVE, because it keeps the pinion parallel to what you had before.
If you tried to set the pinion angle off the driveshaft alone, you would increase the pinion angle 3 degrees NEGATIVE, most likely causing a severe vibration because of U-joint binding.
BTW, this is also the correct method to set pinion angle on a lifted 4 x 4 truck with a 1 piece driveshaft:
1. Make the pinion parallel to the transmsission.
2. If pinion binds, lower transmission in the rear.
3. Reset pinion parallel to transmission.
4. If pinion still binds, install a CV joint on the transmission, and point the pinion directly toward the CV joint.
your way, what is pinion angle when trans and rear are parellel? ZERO???? SOMEONE PLEASE ANSWER THIS QUESTION BECAUSE NO ONE EVER DOES
Posted By: Quicktree
Re: can someone school me on setting pinion angle?? - 08/24/09 09:02 AM
Quote:
"oh yea? where have you ever seen me say anything about making big HP? thats something you have made up to be funny.my junk don't make a lot OF HP and I really don't care. "
So then your pinion angle is set wrong if you are breaking rear ends .
the rear ends that broke had nothing to do with pinion angle, thats another myth made up by sixpackgut. they were 30 year old passenger car rears.
Posted By: Quicktree
Re: can someone school me on setting pinion angle?? - 08/24/09 09:04 AM
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
my way, Monte's way amd Wolfe race cars way http://www.wolferacecraft.com/pinionangle.aspx
enough said.
The Joker
enough said if you buy into that, you can also find just as many who set it the other way. really I don't care how anybody sets theirs. people have to decide for themselves and learn the hard way I guess. now go make you another movie.
untill you build a 4.70 1/8th mile stock suspension car i will keep listening to the guys who do. no need for a movie
have at it. cause I have no desire to build a stock suspension 4.70 car.
why not u sceeeeered
no not really, you sponsor it and I will build and drive it. how does that sound? when can I expect the first sponsor check?
car never make it off the starting line and you would be blaming all the horsepower you make to the guys cleaning up the gear oil
oh yea? where have you ever seen me say anything about making big HP? thats something you have made up to be funny.my junk don't make a lot OF HP and I really don't care.
are you feeding me for thanksgiving
Also, Big Squeeze, beautiful car
yea I'll still feed you, but your probably not going to like the taste of what I am thinking about...
Posted By: Quicktree
Re: can someone school me on setting pinion angle?? - 08/24/09 09:11 AM
Quote:
Quote:
Wayne,
7 degrees is too much negative pinion angle. If you are going to quote me, please post where I told you to run that much.
This isn't rocket science. Depending on the ride height and drivetrain angle of the car, setting pinion angle off the driveshaft is purely hit or miss.
For example, assume your race car's pinion angle is set perfectly and the car has no vibration.
If you raised the engine in the front 3 degrees, changing the drivetrain angle downward, the correct way to compensate for this would be to increase the pinion angle 3 degrees POSITIVE, because it keeps the pinion parallel to what you had before.
If you tried to set the pinion angle off the driveshaft alone, you would increase the pinion angle 3 degrees NEGATIVE, most likely causing a severe vibration because of U-joint binding.
BTW, this is also the correct method to set pinion angle on a lifted 4 x 4 truck with a 1 piece driveshaft:
1. Make the pinion parallel to the transmsission.
2. If pinion binds, lower transmission in the rear.
3. Reset pinion parallel to transmission.
4. If pinion still binds, install a CV joint on the transmission, and point the pinion directly toward the CV joint.
your way, what is pinion angle when trans and rear are parellel? ZERO???? SOMEONE PLEASE ANSWER THIS QUESTION BECAUSE NO ONE EVER DOES
not sure what your asking is why you don't get an answer. how often do you run into that situation? maybe on a chassis car you would. and the only thing you do is roll the pinion down depending on what suspension you have.
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: can someone school me on setting pinion angle?? - 08/24/09 12:29 PM
Quote:
Also, Big Squeeze, beautiful car
THANKS.......
Quote:
Wayne,
7 degrees is too much negative pinion angle. If you are going to quote me, please post where I told you to run that much.
I never said that you said to run that much, I only said that I did it that way and it didn't work that way with me using 7* on my leaf spring car......Yeah, obviously it was too much when doing it your way, or it wouldn't have howled like crazy ........What I am saying is that I've run that much for 15 years, doing it my way, in all kinds of cars and have NEVER had an issue with vibration..........
Quote:
This isn't rocket science. Depending on the ride height and drivetrain angle of the car, setting pinion angle off the driveshaft is purely hit or miss.
I AGREE.......and my theory is that as long as the pinion angle doesn't go over zero with the driveshaft and it's not low enough to howl, it's fine in a drag car and WON'T COST ANY ET or "rob horsepower", or even a street car, so it's always been a "hit" and not a "miss" with me........
Quote:
For example, assume your race car's pinion angle is set perfectly and the car has no vibration.
The problem with saying "perfect" is that there's a pretty large window where the thing won't vibrate and it would be called "perfect"......
From doing what I'd done, it's obvious to me that if I had a jacked up 4 wheel drive truck and the output shaft and pinion were parralel to each other......and the driveshaft were pointed down at a 45* angle, and I then rotated the pinion down 2, 4, or 6* or whatever, it would REALLY howl........
The point is that the way you guys do it works fine if the output shaft and driveshaft are relatively parralel to each other.......
When I'd set my pinion angle the way that the Moparts chart shows , I had 11 degrees negative pinion angle to the driveshaft.......but it was only 7* down from the output shaft, which is what that chart shows..........and man, did it howl like crazy......
So, my point with that is, let's say we have an extreme example.........and our race car with a 4 link was set up similar to my car in that the engine were facing downhill.......and the pinion angle to driveshaft angle ended up being 11* different just like my car, even though the pinion was only down 4 degrees from the outputshaft, I guarantee that it would howl like crazy.........
Posted By: sixpackgut
Re: can someone school me on setting pinion angle?? - 08/24/09 02:05 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Wayne,
7 degrees is too much negative pinion angle. If you are going to quote me, please post where I told you to run that much.
This isn't rocket science. Depending on the ride height and drivetrain angle of the car, setting pinion angle off the driveshaft is purely hit or miss.
For example, assume your race car's pinion angle is set perfectly and the car has no vibration.
If you raised the engine in the front 3 degrees, changing the drivetrain angle downward, the correct way to compensate for this would be to increase the pinion angle 3 degrees POSITIVE, because it keeps the pinion parallel to what you had before.
If you tried to set the pinion angle off the driveshaft alone, you would increase the pinion angle 3 degrees NEGATIVE, most likely causing a severe vibration because of U-joint binding.
BTW, this is also the correct method to set pinion angle on a lifted 4 x 4 truck with a 1 piece driveshaft:
1. Make the pinion parallel to the transmsission.
2. If pinion binds, lower transmission in the rear.
3. Reset pinion parallel to transmission.
4. If pinion still binds, install a CV joint on the transmission, and point the pinion directly toward the CV joint.
your way, what is pinion angle when trans and rear are parellel? ZERO???? SOMEONE PLEASE ANSWER THIS QUESTION BECAUSE NO ONE EVER DOES
not sure what your asking is why you don't get an answer. how often do you run into that situation? maybe on a chassis car you would. and the only thing you do is roll the pinion down depending on what suspension you have.
if your tranny is 2* down and the rear is 2* up then it should be in parallel, correct? AT THIS POINT, HOW DO YOU GET 0* ( ZERO ) PINION ANGLE? ANSWER THE QUESTION 
Posted By: DoctorDiff
Re: can someone school me on setting pinion angle?? - 08/24/09 02:05 PM
I agree, there is a fairly large window that a driveshaft will not howl. That is why you can get away with setting pinion angle strictly off the driveshaft in some applications.
The pinion angle can go over zero under load a couple degrees however.
If your pinion was set 4 degrees under parallel to the transmission centerline, it probably would NOT howl like crazy.
Posted By: DoctorDiff
Re: can someone school me on setting pinion angle?? - 08/24/09 02:19 PM
Once again...
Set the pinion parallel to the transmission as a base line, then pivot the pinion downward X degrees. X degrees is the pinion angle.
If the transmission slopes downward 2 degrees toward the rear and the pinion slopes upward 2 degrees toward the front (parallel), you have 0 degree pinion angle.
If the transmission slopes downward 2 degrees toward the rear and the pinion is level, you have 2 degree negative pinion angle.
If the transmission slopes downward 2 degrees toward the rear and the pinion slopes downward 2 degrees toward the front, you have 4 degree negative pinion angle.
Posted By: moparniac
Re: can someone school me on setting pinion angle?? - 08/24/09 02:27 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Wayne,
7 degrees is too much negative pinion angle. If you are going to quote me, please post where I told you to run that much.
This isn't rocket science. Depending on the ride height and drivetrain angle of the car, setting pinion angle off the driveshaft is purely hit or miss.
For example, assume your race car's pinion angle is set perfectly and the car has no vibration.
If you raised the engine in the front 3 degrees, changing the drivetrain angle downward, the correct way to compensate for this would be to increase the pinion angle 3 degrees POSITIVE, because it keeps the pinion parallel to what you had before.
If you tried to set the pinion angle off the driveshaft alone, you would increase the pinion angle 3 degrees NEGATIVE, most likely causing a severe vibration because of U-joint binding.
BTW, this is also the correct method to set pinion angle on a lifted 4 x 4 truck with a 1 piece driveshaft:
1. Make the pinion parallel to the transmsission.
2. If pinion binds, lower transmission in the rear.
3. Reset pinion parallel to transmission.
4. If pinion still binds, install a CV joint on the transmission, and point the pinion directly toward the CV joint.
your way, what is pinion angle when trans and rear are parellel? ZERO???? SOMEONE PLEASE ANSWER THIS QUESTION BECAUSE NO ONE EVER DOES
not sure what your asking is why you don't get an answer. how often do you run into that situation? maybe on a chassis car you would. and the only thing you do is roll the pinion down depending on what suspension you have.
if your tranny is 2* down and the rear is 2* up then it should be in parallel, correct? AT THIS POINT, HOW DO YOU GET 0* ( ZERO ) PINION ANGLE? ANSWER THE QUESTION
Isnt that working angles and not pinion angles
Posted By: DoctorDiff
Re: can someone school me on setting pinion angle?? - 08/24/09 02:41 PM
Pinion angle is the relationship between the transmission centerline and the pinion centerline.
Working angle = driveshaft angle
Posted By: moparniac
Re: can someone school me on setting pinion angle?? - 08/24/09 02:49 PM
Cass empty your inbox..... lol says its full!
Posted By: Evil Spirit
Re: can someone school me on setting pinion angle?? - 08/24/09 02:57 PM
Quote:
Pinion angle is the relationship between the transmission centerline and the pinion centerline.
Working angle = driveshaft angle
YEP
Posted By: Blown71X
Re: can someone school me on setting pinion angle?? - 08/24/09 02:58 PM
.
Posted By: Quicktree
Re: can someone school me on setting pinion angle?? - 08/24/09 04:21 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Wayne,
7 degrees is too much negative pinion angle. If you are going to quote me, please post where I told you to run that much.
This isn't rocket science. Depending on the ride height and drivetrain angle of the car, setting pinion angle off the driveshaft is purely hit or miss.
For example, assume your race car's pinion angle is set perfectly and the car has no vibration.
If you raised the engine in the front 3 degrees, changing the drivetrain angle downward, the correct way to compensate for this would be to increase the pinion angle 3 degrees POSITIVE, because it keeps the pinion parallel to what you had before.
If you tried to set the pinion angle off the driveshaft alone, you would increase the pinion angle 3 degrees NEGATIVE, most likely causing a severe vibration because of U-joint binding.
BTW, this is also the correct method to set pinion angle on a lifted 4 x 4 truck with a 1 piece driveshaft:
1. Make the pinion parallel to the transmsission.
2. If pinion binds, lower transmission in the rear.
3. Reset pinion parallel to transmission.
4. If pinion still binds, install a CV joint on the transmission, and point the pinion directly toward the CV joint.
your way, what is pinion angle when trans and rear are parellel? ZERO???? SOMEONE PLEASE ANSWER THIS QUESTION BECAUSE NO ONE EVER DOES
not sure what your asking is why you don't get an answer. how often do you run into that situation? maybe on a chassis car you would. and the only thing you do is roll the pinion down depending on what suspension you have.
if your tranny is 2* down and the rear is 2* up then it should be in parallel, correct? AT THIS POINT, HOW DO YOU GET 0* ( ZERO ) PINION ANGLE? ANSWER THE QUESTION
my god are you kidding me it's been answered at least a million times nothing else I can say 
Posted By: sixpackgut
Re: can someone school me on setting pinion angle?? - 08/24/09 04:23 PM
Quote:
If the transmission slopes downward 2 degrees toward the rear and the pinion slopes upward 2 degrees toward the front (parallel), you have 0 degree pinion angle.
If the transmission slopes downward 2 degrees toward the rear and the pinion is level, you have 2 degree negative pinion angle.
if your front U joint is 12" from the ground and the rear U joint is 13" from the ground, there is no way on gods green earth this is correct.
Posted By: Quicktree
Re: can someone school me on setting pinion angle?? - 08/24/09 04:26 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Pinion angle is the relationship between the transmission centerline and the pinion centerline.
Working angle = driveshaft angle
YEP
also and so do many more but they don't get involved because they are scared of being ridiculed by the naysayers. I could care less. and could also care less how many stupid movies they make or how many names they call. and I dam sure don't care how they set theirs up
Posted By: DoctorDiff
Re: can someone school me on setting pinion angle?? - 08/24/09 05:08 PM
That scenario is very correct, and it illustrates why you can not always set pinion angle off the driveshaft.
Under power, you want the front and rear U-joint angles to cancel each other out (pinion parallel to transmission). You do not want both front and rear yokes pointing up or both pointing down.
Posted By: Quicktree
Re: can someone school me on setting pinion angle?? - 08/24/09 05:32 PM
Quote:
That scenario is very correct, and it illustrates why you can not always set pinion angle off the driveshaft.
Under power, you want the front and rear U-joint angles to cancel each other out (pinion parallel to transmission). You do not want both front and rear yokes pointing up or both pointing down.
can't be made any simpler. I see a doctordiff movie coming
Posted By: sshemi
Re: can someone school me on setting pinion angle?? - 08/24/09 06:38 PM
Quote:
That scenario is very correct, and it illustrates why you can not always set pinion angle off the driveshaft.
Under power, you want the front and rear U-joint angles to cancel each other out (pinion parallel to transmission). You do not want both front and rear yokes pointing up or both pointing down.
The purpose with it is to have both u-joints rotating with the same speed.
I know this wont make sence to many but my english is not good enough to explain.
Maybe someone else can?
Posted By: Quicktree
Re: can someone school me on setting pinion angle?? - 08/24/09 07:27 PM
Quote:
Quote:
That scenario is very correct, and it illustrates why you can not always set pinion angle off the driveshaft.
Under power, you want the front and rear U-joint angles to cancel each other out (pinion parallel to transmission). You do not want both front and rear yokes pointing up or both pointing down.
The purpose with it is to have both u-joints rotating with the same speed.
I know this wont make sence to many but my english is not good enough to explain.
Maybe someone else can?
no use, we ae not going to change their minds nor are we trying. their MO is to belittle or bash those who choose to have a different opinion.
