Moparts

et help

Posted By: fowl play

et help - 08/22/09 06:29 PM

what to do to get the best out of my car? i have a dart with a 414 small block b1 heads, 13 to 1 comp. 620 mopar cam. 950 hp carb. 4800 dynamic conv.in a 727. 4.56's ladder bars and coilovers, qa1's. 10.5 by 31 tires car runs 10.6-10.7 at 3800' air in good air 10.44- 10 55. should it run faster?2800 with me in it. most everyone one here with a similar combo is quicker. where should i start to adjust, or make changes? thanks
Posted By: B3422W5

Re: et help - 08/22/09 06:42 PM

Quote:

what to do to get the best out of my car? i have a dart with a 414 small block b1 heads, 13 to 1 comp. 620 mopar cam. 950 hp carb. 4800 dynamic conv.in a 727. 4.56's ladder bars and coilovers, qa1's. 10.5 by 31 tires car runs 10.6-10.7 at 3800' air in good air 10.44- 10 55. should it run faster?2800 with me in it. most everyone one here with a similar combo is quicker. where should i start to adjust, or make changes? thanks





what intake, what is done to the heads, and what are the cam specs exactly??
Posted By: fowl play

Re: et help - 08/22/09 06:47 PM

cam 320 dur 620 lift mopar performance cam torquer 2 intake motor built by koffels place mild port on heads
Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: et help - 08/22/09 09:22 PM

Change the intake first Any high rise single plane will work better and be quicker, IMO
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: et help - 08/22/09 11:14 PM

Can you give us a time slip Or all the numbers to
see where its lagging... how many revs do you take it
to and what do you launch at(rpm) and shift at
Posted By: fowl play

Re: et help - 08/23/09 12:49 AM

i don't have a time slip in the house right now but, last weekend in 90 degree heat and about 3800 ' the car went 1.50 in 60 about 6.77 in the 1/8 and 10.77 at 121.8 very bad air.
Posted By: fowl play

Re: et help - 08/23/09 12:53 AM

jn responce to the intake. koffel's said they tested a bunch of intakes and the torquer made the most power, i don't know. also mr p body i am leaving at 3500 and shifting at 6000.
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: et help - 08/23/09 01:14 AM

Quote:

jn responce to the intake. koffel's said they tested a bunch of intakes and the torquer made the most power, i don't know. also mr p body i am leaving at 3500 and shifting at 6000.




Can you give the cam specs at .050.... and what the
cam is installed at(centerline)... thats some REAL
low rpm's to be shifting at unless its a all torque
engine
Posted By: fowl play

Re: et help - 08/23/09 01:37 AM

mopar performance doesn't give specs at 50 and i do notknow what centerline it is installed at. tje motor made 565hp at 6500 and 550 fi lb torque at 4800. i am wonering if there is more with this combo or not. best at norwalk 10.44at 126 with old convertor. thanks
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: et help - 08/23/09 01:55 AM

Quote:

mopar performance doesn't give specs at 50 and i do notknow what centerline it is installed at. tje motor made 565hp at 6500 and 550 fi lb torque at 4800. i am wonering if there is more with this combo or not. best at norwalk 10.44at 126 with old convertor. thanks




Well if it makes peak power at 6500 why are you shifting
at 6000
Posted By: Dunnuck Racing

Re: et help - 08/23/09 03:13 AM

Mr.P,
Mopar advertises that cam's duration @.050 as 275.
I think in real world measurements they are 282 @.050.
It also has a lobe separation of 106,might be part of the problem with his stroker?
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: et help - 08/23/09 03:38 AM

Quote:

Mr.P,
Mopar advertises that cam's duration @.050 as 275.
I think in real world measurements they are 282 @.050.
It also has a lobe separation of 106,might be part of the problem with his stroker?




If it has a duration that high he needs to really step
up the revs.... but the intake and probably the carb
are holding it back... if he would post the time slip
it would help alot....with the 106 LSA he should have
all sorts of low end power and have some decent 60' times
Posted By: fowl play

Re: et help - 08/23/09 03:19 PM

mr p body here are some number from fall at norwalk. some the best.60' 1.464 330 4.269 1/8 6.652 @102.66 1000 8.733 1/4 10.52@124.91 60' 1.473 330 4.283 1/8 6.671@102.75 1000 8.759 1/4 10.549@ 125.46 these numbers are with the old 4200 t/a convertor just before it went south. this was also in good air. i am looking to improve what i have not to change too much. thanks for your help.
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: et help - 08/23/09 03:29 PM

Quote:

mr p body here are some number from fall at norwalk. some the best.60' 1.464 330 4.269 1/8 6.652 @102.66 1000 8.733 1/4 [Email]10.52@124.91[/Email] 60' 1.473 330 4.283 1/8 [Email]6.671@102.75[/Email] 1000 8.759 1/4 10.549@ 125.46 these numbers are with the old 4200 t/a convertor just before it went south. this was also in good air. i am looking to improve what i have not to change too much. thanks for your help.




By chance, you arent using MP valve springs are you?
The 60' is soft for a 2800# car.... but the whole
pass is soft
Posted By: fowl play

Re: et help - 08/23/09 03:57 PM

i don't know for sure about the valve springs i will check. why are they bad, soft ,not enough pressure or what? thanks.
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: et help - 08/23/09 04:03 PM

Quote:

i don't know for sure about the valve springs i will check. why are they bad, soft ,not enough pressure or what? thanks.




Way under pressure for what you really need. I ran
them 1 time(full season) and from the moment I let go
of the trans brake I went to valve float for the whole
run... never broke them and thankfully they went into
coil bind before the valves hit the pistons.... I
figured they were just worn out but when I checked
the new springs to replace the old ones... they were
identical pressures.... junk
Posted By: Hemiroid

Re: et help - 08/23/09 04:04 PM

If it were me, I would be changing the cam, intake, rear gear, carb, and converter

My combo would have been a solid roller 280ish @ .050 .700ish lift, single plane with a 1050 dom, 5.13 gear and around 5500 stall and let her eat .

With that being said, the things that in my mind absolutely need to be changed are the cam and intake. There are lots of great solid shelf cams that are way better then the .620. The intake is really hurting your combo as well and I believe it should be changed. You're geared perfectly for and have the right converter for a big block stroker, unfortunately you have a smallblock!!

As Mr. P stated, you need to rpm the motor to reach it's true potential. Shifting it at 6000 isn't doing that.
Posted By: S/ST 3040

Re: et help - 08/23/09 04:18 PM

At 2800 lbs you should be well into the nines.

4.56 and 31" tire will work good. I think the cam is in need of improvement,

5300-5400 for converter would work better too.

Posted By: Hemiroid

Re: et help - 08/23/09 04:22 PM

Quote:

At 2800 lbs you should be well into the nines.

4.56 and 31" tire will work good. I think the cam is in need of improvement,

5300-5400 for converter would work better too.






Opps, misread it. Thought it said 33's. I still would have went 4.88 even with 31's. The 4.56 will suffice, but the converter is light, the intake is all wrong and the cam is so 20 years ago
Posted By: S/ST 3040

Re: et help - 08/23/09 04:29 PM

I can't really comment on the intake but, just from what I know, I'd have
started with something else.

I know of 2 guys on here that run steep gears with 4" engines
and light cars so it's not impossible. None the less, the 4.56/31"
isn't holding him back.
Posted By: Hemiroid

Re: et help - 08/23/09 04:40 PM

The torquerII is a low rise single plane I believe. Not really a racing manifold. It will function, but it's just one of many marginal choices made here that all add up to lack luster performance.
Posted By: fowl play

Re: et help - 08/23/09 04:57 PM

how about a 2" spacer ? will that help any? how is the mopar m1 single plane? stock jetting in the hp should it be more it is 79's
Posted By: Hemiroid

Re: et help - 08/23/09 05:01 PM

Quote:

how about a 2" spacer ? will that help any? how is the mopar m1 single plane? stock jetting in the hp should it be more it is 79's




The MI would do a better job I'm sure. Adding a 2" spacer would probably help some as adding some plenum volume to that manifold should be a step in the right direction.
Posted By: S/ST 3040

Re: et help - 08/23/09 05:07 PM

I'd look at camshaft, converter and swap for a Victor 340.

I realize nobody wants to start spending money on an engine
they already paid good money to have built but, no spacer is
going to pick you up .5 second.
Posted By: Hemiroid

Re: et help - 08/23/09 05:21 PM

Quote:

I'd look at camshaft, converter and swap for a Victor 340.

I realize nobody wants to start spending money on an engine
they already paid good money to have built but, no spacer is
going to pick you up .5 second.




Who said it was going to pick up .5? The MI or Victor are the right choices, but IF he's going to hang with the Torquer, a spacer will help some. I agree with you (as I stated before) that those things need to be changed. I'm just not sure he's ready to do make those changes. So all we can do if that's the case is try to help him with what he's using now, right or wrong.
Posted By: fowl play

Re: et help - 08/23/09 05:23 PM

i am not looking to pick up .5 sec yet but to optimise what i have.
Posted By: ProSport

Re: et help - 08/23/09 05:32 PM

Have you tried the new converter yet? I agree that a 5500 flash converter would work better. And I think the 950HP carb is perfectly fine, I doubt you'd go any quicker with a different carb, a Dominator may only be a couple hundredths quicker just going by my results on an Eddy headed 451 big block.

I also agree that you should shift it at 6500 and trap a couple hundred above that(6700).
I like the MP 590 cam alot better than the 620 so that may be something cheap to try before spending $1200 or more for a full roller setup.
Got any pics of the car?
Posted By: fowl play

Re: et help - 08/23/09 05:40 PM

for years i ran a 4200 t/a nonbrake conv. with a trans brake left at 2500 shifted at 6000. got the results you saw just before it died. sent it to dynamic , rebuilt it to brake specs and they recomended 4500 to 4800 we went with 4800 , i haven't had it out except in bad air but it runs about the same as in similar air before . seems more consistant though. i don't know how to put pictures on here yet.
Posted By: Hemiroid

Re: et help - 08/23/09 05:42 PM

Quote:

Have you tried the new converter yet? I agree that a 5500 flash converter would work better. And I think the 950HP carb is perfectly fine, I doubt you'd go any quicker with a different carb, a Dominator may only be a couple hundredths quicker just going by my results on an Eddy headed 451 big block.

I also agree that you should shift it at 6500 and trap a couple hundred above that(6700).
I like the MP 590 cam alot better than the 620 so that may be something cheap to try before spending $1200 or more for a full roller setup.
Got any pics of the car?




Dom, I was just saying that from the start I would have went with a dom as there's room to grow with it. The 950 is fine as he said the heads are only mildly ported. The cam, converter and intake to me really stand out as issues in this combo. Is this car strickly raced, or is it street driven as well?
Posted By: S/ST 3040

Re: et help - 08/23/09 05:47 PM

Quote:

565hp at 6500 and 550 fi lb torque at 4800. i am wonering if there is more with this combo or not. best at norwalk 10.44at 126 with old convertor. thanks




He did say he wanted to optimse his current set-up.

He definitely isn't seeing 565 HP, running 126 MPH @ 2800 lbs.
Posted By: Hemiroid

Re: et help - 08/23/09 05:51 PM



He did say he wanted to optimse his current set-up.

He definitely isn't seeing 565 HP, running 126 MPH @ 2800 lbs.




OK!!OK!! STOP HITTING ME!!

Yeah, I agree he isn't getting there with timing changes abd spacers.
Posted By: justinp61

Re: et help - 08/23/09 06:06 PM

I'd beg, steal or borrow a Victor 340 or a M1 to try. It wouldn't cost much, a gasket set and a little time. It should run better IMHO. I just finished a 408, 10.9-1, 260/266 @ .050, .628/.633 flat solid, ported Edelbrocks, Victor 340 with a 950 HP, 4400 9.5" converter, 4.30 8.75 (rip). The first time out last weekend with no tuning it went 6.823 @ 102.04, 1.561 60' spinning. The tempature was in the low 90s and the da was 3417'. This is in a 3300# A body. Good luck .
Posted By: fowl play

Re: et help - 08/23/09 06:17 PM

i have an m1 on my 340 i could try. with a 4800 conv. what do you think i should leave at . the consesis is to shift about 6500 is that right?
Posted By: justinp61

Re: et help - 08/23/09 06:38 PM

When I was learning my 340 I tried to do everything systematically. I tried leaving at different rpms to find what it liked best. Started at idle and worked my way up to 2800 in 200 rpm increments, no other changes. From 2200-2500 the 60' was the same, it started falling off after 2500. I did the same on shift points, air pressure, squirters and jets. I usually tried to make at least two passes after each change to verify the results. If I messed up some where, more passes were made. It took a while to sort it out but when it was done I had learned a bunch and knew how my car reacted to small changes. Keep accurate records, they will be you're friend later.
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: et help - 08/23/09 07:05 PM

Quote:

i have an m1 on my 340 i could try. with a 4800 conv. what do you think i should leave at . the consesis is to shift about 6500 is that right?




If you get a different manifold on I would shift it
between 7000 and 7400... that cam should like to rev
if it truly is 282 or so at .050
Posted By: 440Jim

Re: et help - 08/23/09 07:06 PM

Quote:

Mr.P,
Mopar advertises that cam's duration @.050 as 275.
I think in real world measurements they are 282 @.050.
It also has a lobe separation of 106,


I agree. I measured the big block version of the same MP cam and got 283. With ~416 CID it should like 7000 RPM easy, if the heads and valve train will support it. And it would like 5500 stall. But really I am not a big fan of that cam, and think it is the worst part of the combo.

A carb spacer, or M1 intake comparison would be easy to try.
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