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Who makes a Good Non Bolt in Sprag for 727?

Posted By: KD800X

Who makes a Good Non Bolt in Sprag for 727? - 05/28/09 03:47 AM

We has a misshap with a broken Pinion Yoke in Columbus. We took the Transmission apart and the Sprag looked ok but I think we should change it never the less. I was looking in the A&A Book but it looks like all of there Sprags are bolt in. Does anyone make a good non bolt in sprag?

Thanks
Posted By: JohnRR

Re: Who makes a Good Non Bolt in Sprag for 727? - 05/28/09 04:09 AM

if you remove the original sprag you want to use a bolt in as nothing fits as good as the first time it was installed at the factory . get the A+A ultimate sprag , anything else is wasting your money .

But if the race is tight inthe case and not all galled up I would just replace the rollers and springs .

is this a street car , race car , autio VB or manual ?
Posted By: Quicksilver440

Re: Who makes a Good Non Bolt in Sprag for 727? - 05/28/09 04:14 AM

what makes an ultimate sprag better?
Posted By: JohnRR

Re: Who makes a Good Non Bolt in Sprag for 727? - 05/28/09 04:24 AM

Quote:

what makes an ultimate sprag better?



It has more rollers and springs and makes it virtually impossible for the rollers to roll over , the rollers are a little smaller in size but there are more of them .
Posted By: KD800X

Re: Who makes a Good Non Bolt in Sprag for 727? - 05/28/09 04:35 AM

Quote:

if you remove the original sprag you want to use a bolt in as nothing fits as good as the first time it was installed at the factory . get the A+A ultimate sprag , anything else is wasting your money .

But if the race is tight inthe case and not all galled up I would just replace the rollers and springs .

is this a street car , race car , autio VB or manual ?




It's a Race Car 9.80's Hemi Coronet. We really don't want to get into drilling the case for the bolt in. The guy doing our Transmission said the Sprag looked good, I just felt that while we have it apart we might as well put a new one in. If changing the Springs and Rollers will help than thats is an idea.

Thanks
Posted By: rebel

Re: Who makes a Good Non Bolt in Sprag for 727? - 05/28/09 05:26 AM

press in an Ultimate sprag, just don't drill & bolt it. but since you're changing it you should go the full monte & do it right. as said earlier, nothing fits as good as the original. drilling 6 holes is great insurance.
Posted By: chargerron69

Re: Who makes a Good Non Bolt in Sprag for 727? - 05/28/09 06:00 AM

Quote:

Quote:

if you remove the original sprag you want to use a bolt in as nothing fits as good as the first time it was installed at the factory . get the A+A ultimate sprag , anything else is wasting your money .

But if the race is tight inthe case and not all galled up I would just replace the rollers and springs .

is this a street car , race car , autio VB or manual ?




It's a Race Car 9.80's Hemi Coronet. We really don't want to get into drilling the case for the bolt in. The guy doing our Transmission said the Sprag looked good, I just felt that while we have it apart we might as well put a new one in. If changing the Springs and Rollers will help than thats is an idea.

Thanks



the regular bolt in doesnt require any drilling at all the ultimate needs 2 holes drilled. if you dont have any kinda bolt in sprag at all you are racing a time bomb! sprag failure is the reason 727 grenade
Posted By: JoWeTu_6

Re: Who makes a Good Non Bolt in Sprag for 727? - 05/28/09 06:31 AM

You realy should go with the bolt in. Do a srarch in mopar action I belive and see what happens when a 727 lets go it's like a bomb going off under the car when the sprag takes a dump and it will sooner or later.
You see it's not a question of will it go away it will, it's when, and for that thing it's always the wrong time.
Always take the side of safty bolt in is the only way to go.

JoWeTu_6
Posted By: DJVCuda

Re: Who makes a Good Non Bolt in Sprag for 727? - 05/28/09 08:56 AM

Mopar Enthusiast Article Torqueflite Built Right

This might answer alot of your questions - I think it's about 6-8 pages long

Are you running a stock drum too?
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Who makes a Good Non Bolt in Sprag for 727? - 05/28/09 11:12 AM

KEVIN,i just took my 727 apart,my aluminum drum was worn alittle, i am replacing my drum with a billet steel one and while my drum is apart i am changing to a BOLT IN SPRAG, for $175.00 its a no brainer.
without a bolt in sprag, its a matter of time before that tranny lets loose and goes through your floor cutting off dads leg.
with the power you making now, you have to really upgrade your parts correctly to avoid an accident that can be prevented, build it right the 1st time, it will save you money and aggravation later on.
Posted By: B G Racing

Re: Who makes a Good Non Bolt in Sprag for 727? - 05/28/09 12:32 PM

We usually only replace the springs and rollers,about $25.We do use the bolt in overrunning clutch if there is damage to the the inner or outer support rings.The bolts that hold the clutch(sprag) in place do nothing to stop the it from "exploding" If it is going to happen(usually from abuse or incorrect use or other drive line breakage)The new A&A and other "Super Sprages" with more springs and rollers may increase the life of the unit.If your set on replacing it,I would recommend A&A,Rick is a great guy and supports the site and Mopar racers.
Posted By: Dodgem

Re: Who makes a Good Non Bolt in Sprag for 727? - 05/28/09 12:41 PM


It's a Race Car 9.80's Hemi Coronet. We really don't want to get into drilling the case for the bolt in. The guy doing our Transmission said the Sprag looked good, I just felt that while we have it apart we might as well put a new one in. If changing the Springs and Rollers will help than thats is an idea.

Thanks


You just use the 4 existing holes for the rear support (changing the bolts long enough for the sprag and not bother drilling the holes for the extra twp bolts.
Posted By: J_BODY

Re: Who makes a Good Non Bolt in Sprag for 727? - 05/28/09 12:58 PM

Quote:

We usually only replace the springs and rollers,about $25.We do use the bolt in overrunning clutch if there is damage to the the inner or outer support rings.The bolts that hold the clutch(sprag) in place do nothing to stop the it from "exploding" If it is going to happen(usually from abuse or incorrect use or other drive line breakage)



FINALLY!!! A voice of reason!
Posted By: dusturbd340W5

Re: Who makes a Good Non Bolt in Sprag for 727? - 05/28/09 01:09 PM

Quote:

Quote:

We usually only replace the springs and rollers,about $25.We do use the bolt in overrunning clutch if there is damage to the the inner or outer support rings.The bolts that hold the clutch(sprag) in place do nothing to stop the it from "exploding" If it is going to happen(usually from abuse or incorrect use or other drive line breakage)



FINALLY!!! A voice of reason!



this is absolutly correct and for info the ultimate sprag from Coan uses the 4 holes in the case with nice shoulder bolts.
Posted By: B G Racing

Re: Who makes a Good Non Bolt in Sprag for 727? - 05/28/09 01:57 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

We usually only replace the springs and rollers,about $25.We do use the bolt in overrunning clutch if there is damage to the the inner or outer support rings.The bolts that hold the clutch(sprag) in place do nothing to stop the it from "exploding" If it is going to happen(usually from abuse or incorrect use or other drive line breakage)



FINALLY!!! A voice of reason!



this is absolutly correct and for info the ultimate sprag from Coan uses the 4 holes in the case with nice shoulder bolts.

The only problem with the one that Coan uses is the shouldered bolt is necked down to a 1/4 thread and fastener and the srings and rollers are so small that I always find broken springs and flat rollers.I still preferr the stock style large springs and rollers.
Posted By: dusturbd340W5

Re: Who makes a Good Non Bolt in Sprag for 727? - 05/28/09 02:17 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

We usually only replace the springs and rollers,about $25.We do use the bolt in overrunning clutch if there is damage to the the inner or outer support rings.The bolts that hold the clutch(sprag) in place do nothing to stop the it from "exploding" If it is going to happen(usually from abuse or incorrect use or other drive line breakage)



FINALLY!!! A voice of reason!



this is absolutly correct and for info the ultimate sprag from Coan uses the 4 holes in the case with nice shoulder bolts.

The only problem with the one that Coan uses is the shouldered bolt is necked down to a 1/4 thread and fastener and the srings and rollers are so small that I always find broken springs and flat rollers.I still preferr the stock style large springs and rollers.



Thats interesting because the sprag they use is a low/rev sprag from a ford C-6/E40d trans and we dont see them fail very offten
Posted By: JohnRR

Re: Who makes a Good Non Bolt in Sprag for 727? - 05/28/09 02:33 PM

Quote:

Quote:

if you remove the original sprag you want to use a bolt in as nothing fits as good as the first time it was installed at the factory . get the A+A ultimate sprag , anything else is wasting your money .

But if the race is tight inthe case and not all galled up I would just replace the rollers and springs .

is this a street car , race car , autio VB or manual ?




It's a Race Car 9.80's Hemi Coronet. We really don't want to get into drilling the case for the bolt in. The guy doing our Transmission said the Sprag looked good, I just felt that while we have it apart we might as well put a new one in. If changing the Springs and Rollers will help than thats is an idea.

Thanks



Since it's a drag car I wouldn't change out the orignal unless it's damaged , if you want to change it anyway use the A+A. You don't really need to drill for the 2 extra bolts, later 727's have a 6 bolt rear support in that case you don't have to do much drilling if that's the case you have. BUT if you just change the springs and rollers buy the A+A billet drum, or go with an Alum drum, either way if the srag fails you won't end up with the trans coming thru the floor .
Posted By: dOrk !

Re: Who makes a Good Non Bolt in Sprag for 727? - 05/28/09 02:39 PM

I cast my vote for the OEM stuff. Those parts have worked for nearly 50 years ...and even under the abuse of a Clutch-flite.

Now when a company comes out with a sprag and will GUARANTEE it .....

THEN ...I might change-my-mind.
Posted By: JoWeTu_6

Re: Who makes a Good Non Bolt in Sprag for 727? - 05/28/09 02:45 PM

I found this link in a post by John_Kunkel
You all should take a look at it, it's self explanatory.

http://good-times.webshots.com/album/563387085NzMVcm

JoWeTu_6
Posted By: WILD BILL

Re: Who makes a Good Non Bolt in Sprag for 727? - 05/28/09 02:52 PM



If you don't have a billet drum in it now get one.

Don't let this happen to you.



Posted By: DJVCuda

Re: Who makes a Good Non Bolt in Sprag for 727? - 05/28/09 02:52 PM

Dont forget PLUM BAD's foot....

Posted By: dOrk !

Re: Who makes a Good Non Bolt in Sprag for 727? - 05/28/09 02:56 PM

Those pics are scarey .... but are you suggesting that a bolt-in-sprag from company A, B or C will prevent this ?

If so ...I will buy THREE of those sprags for 200$ each.

But ...until these companies will GUARANTEE that their sprag will not fail ...the only thing that I know-of that will prevent such a fireball-explosion .....

..... is an aluminum front drum.
Posted By: JohnRR

Re: Who makes a Good Non Bolt in Sprag for 727? - 05/28/09 02:58 PM

those STOCK sprags worked well ...

DOC D no one is going to GUARANTEE ANYTHING against failure because once one happens to FAIL the drooling idiot buying based on MARKETING HYPE is going to SUE ...

NOTHING IS BULLETPROOF , the ONLY way to stop a front drum explosion is to REPLACE the STOCK FRONT DRUM ...
Posted By: WILD BILL

Re: Who makes a Good Non Bolt in Sprag for 727? - 05/28/09 03:00 PM

No replacement sprag will prevent this.


Only a LBA VB or a billet (steel or alum) drum will.
Posted By: dOrk !

Re: Who makes a Good Non Bolt in Sprag for 727? - 05/28/09 03:04 PM



NOTHING IS BULLETPROOF , the ONLY way to stop a front drum explosion is to REPLACE the STOCK FRONT DRUM ...

... just what I said .... a couple of minutes ago.
Posted By: WILD BILL

Re: Who makes a Good Non Bolt in Sprag for 727? - 05/28/09 03:10 PM

Quote:



NOTHING IS BULLETPROOF , the ONLY way to stop a front drum explosion is to REPLACE the STOCK FRONT DRUM ...

... just what I said .... a couple of minutes ago.



WHAT THE HELL


You mean you two acctually agree on something









Posted By: dOrk !

Re: Who makes a Good Non Bolt in Sprag for 727? - 05/28/09 03:11 PM

Yeah ...isn't that special ?
Posted By: WILD BILL

Re: Who makes a Good Non Bolt in Sprag for 727? - 05/28/09 03:13 PM

Posted By: JohnRR

Re: Who makes a Good Non Bolt in Sprag for 727? - 05/28/09 04:25 PM

Quote:



NOTHING IS BULLETPROOF , the ONLY way to stop a front drum explosion is to REPLACE the STOCK FRONT DRUM ...

... just what I said .... a couple of minutes ago.



No , you said that the ONLY way to prevent it is to use an ALUMINUM DRUM , a billet steel drum will NOT explode either .
Posted By: B G Racing

Re: Who makes a Good Non Bolt in Sprag for 727? - 05/28/09 05:55 PM

Fight nice,group hug
Posted By: WILD BILL

Re: Who makes a Good Non Bolt in Sprag for 727? - 05/28/09 07:54 PM

I new it had to be a fluke
Posted By: B G Racing

Re: Who makes a Good Non Bolt in Sprag for 727? - 05/28/09 08:10 PM

If someone can logically explain how a bolt in clutch(spragg) will prevent a trans explosion,then i will install them in all transmissions. When the clutch fails it is because the chain of events that brought on the failure could not be stopped soon enough.It's the drum failure that opens up the case and creates all the carnage.If the clutch breaks and the engine rpm is shut down immediately there is no explosion.
Posted By: dOrk !

Re: Who makes a Good Non Bolt in Sprag for 727? - 05/28/09 08:30 PM

Quote:

If someone can logically explain how a bolt in clutch(spragg) will prevent a trans explosion,then i will install them in all transmissions.



Me tooooo ! .....
Posted By: KD800X

Re: Who makes a Good Non Bolt in Sprag for 727? - 05/28/09 09:42 PM

Wow this topic is like the discussion about Pinion Angles

First off, thanks for all of your input, as usual you have been a big help.
It may sound funny but I agree with all of you.
A little bit of history, this transmission does have an aluminum A&A Drum so that is not an issue.
But before we had the transmission, it belonged to Rod Gartin who was running it in a 23T with a 1000hp wedge in front of it. The car was going 7.40s with 1.0 60'. This all with the Stock sprag and a stock drum that had been lighten by Christian and Starky (for you Columbus boys)
So I believe that the stock sprag can handle the horse power. Heck if it wasn't for the pinion breaking we wouldn't be thinking twice about it.

But since it is apart and we have doubt in the back of our minds that the sprag could be hurt we don't want to take any chances, So we are going to put a new A&A Ultimate Sprag in along with a 5 pinion front planetary since we we're still running the stock planetary and it showed signs of going away on us.

Thanks again for all of your help, I really appreciate your help with this delema.

On another note....WHO WANTS TO TALK ABOUT PINION ANGLES
Posted By: WILD BILL

Re: Who makes a Good Non Bolt in Sprag for 727? - 05/28/09 09:48 PM

Quote:


On another note....WHO WANTS TO TALK ABOUT PINION ANGLES




Are they set different on an 8 3/4 then a Dana 60
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