Ideal build for a reliable 1200 plus hp in a street car?

How would you do it?

I see all these guys running stout times at drag and drive events and it kills me!

2nd or 3rd gen Hemi?

RB?

Which power adder?

I'd start by doing a deep dive into the G3 platform. I don't pay a lot of attention to G3 engines but the factory has been pushing the 800 hp mark so if you can buy a car with a warranty with 800 hp in it, then I'd think that the at least 1000 would be fairly easy to reach. Don't know about 1200+, that would require talking to some experts.

Obviously you can also make 1200 with a G2 but it is a much cruder platform. Some people like that, some don't so it really comes down to personal taste. The G2 is probably a much easier resell path, not sure how big the market is for 1200 hp G3 engines.

All it takes is ambition, time, and a big wallet.
Doug

Gen III Hemi with Turbo/s

I don't know enough about G3 Hemis, if they can make 1200 boosted with stock block and heads, that would be really hard to beat.

Turbos and E85 at a minimum on a moderate sized RB would be my route, but I'm a big block person. The G2 hemi chambers are better for boost than wedges but also have heavier valvetrains and would be harder to package a turbo kit if you're trying to keep inner fenders. I don't see many huge CI twin turbo setups, it seems 540-555 is pretty common, with 572 being the upper limit. At "only" 1200 hp I'd think you could easily get it done under 500". You also wouldn't need the best of the best for cylinder heads either. I know of a couple 440-1 headed turbo big blocks that make 1200+.

One thing I have seen interesting is the higher horsepower turbo BBC stuff sounds like they actually move to our Chrysler wrist pin and rod journal size for additional load capability.

Bigger concern is I don't think a 727 is going to live at 1200 hp behind anything long term, so a turbo 400 would be in the cards too.

Not cheap for drag and drive

It will take decent money, especially to go fast

G3 Hemi, BGE block, Thitek heads. procharger

Build an 800hp big block with a fogger and EFI. I'd spring for steel, paired shaft rockers and G Force GF5R or something similar. If that guy in the GTO can make it all of the way from Canada....

Another option would be a couple of turbos on a 650-700hp long block and stay under 15psi.

From a maintenance perspective I could see where a person would be time/money ahead using a wedge platform instead of the more complicated hemi valvetrain/intake manifold designs.


If I were going this direction I'd do a 540 Cube Indy 573-13 deal with steel rockers, Ti valves and a Holley Dominator EFI with CnP.

Here is your answer: https://www.motortrend.com/news/first-look-twin-turbo-dodge-challenger-demon-170/

This was my goal a few years ago and I chose Gen 2 Hemi with a large single turbo. Excellent street manners and a beast under boost.

Mine fits this category for the most part, but I think nitrous is too much work for a drag and drive event. My combo on E85 w/ a roots blower would be my choice. The E85 might be a pain to find along the way, but you'd need it to cool everything.
Here's MY reasoning behind that....... Nitrous is too much work, even though I love it. Turbos are too much plumbing and I'd have to cut the car up somewhat to fit everything. A procharger would be cool, but again, packaging looks like it' be a real pain and I refuse to cut my car up at all.
My car is a G2 hemi which is why the packaging is an issue. G3 or whatever would be easier.

Check out Steve Morris Racing. The guy specializes in big HP. I just watched one of his vids, 400ci SB 1200hp. I have seen some of his BB make 4500+HP. He seems to be the man for big street HP Too. Makes me want to by a Chevy. He had another vid with a mild 505 that made an easy 1200+HP. Check him out, he has a bunch of vids.

I understand the G2 Hemi needs some kind of blower to make big power. I think its in the valve design/arrangement. I just build a 572 G2 and everyone tells me without a blower, a wedge will be quicker.

Racers like Morris , Bailey and Mitchell/Cleetus are running duel fuel systems, gas on the street and methanol at the track. That would be one way to get around the fuel availability issue, but does add complexity to the total system.

All it takes is $$$$$

"how fast do you want to go ?" "how much money do you want to spend ?"..............

Gen III Hemi with a turbo. The "HEMIFOX" mustang of Big 3 Racing has a stock crank, block, and heads 6.4 last I checked. It runs mid to high 7s most of the time. He usually always wins the fastest without a trailer award on drag and drives also.

Here is an article on the motor
https://www.enginebuildermag.com/2022/06/turbocharged-gen-iii-hemi-powered-1982-ford-mustang/

He has a video up on YouTube of a 1600 hp G3 build from about 5 months ago too:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c8Vu0r8uGi0

Based on the video sounds like it's a BGE 392 with stock heads and twin 67mm turbos. It made 1157 on 93 pump and 8 lbs of boost and 1600 on E85 and 17 lbs of boost. Doesn't seem like they pushed the tune on E85 either.

I’m not a turbo guy……. But for a 1200hp drag n drive combo, that really seems like the way to go.

If starting from scratch, you can't beat a forced induction G3 Hemi, especially when their stock blocks, heads, and even some cranks will make and handle those power levels all day.

I got converted to liking turbos when i bought an F150 with a 3.5l twin turbo. I traded it for a similar 2021, chipped it, and it makes 500 hp on pump 93/e85 mix. Not bad for a little 213cubic inch v6!

I had a 2018 3.5 eco boost , it towed nice but after the nightmare I endured for a factory recall on the Cam phasers , 5 trips total 2 after they lifted the cab off to do the repair, I sold it back to the dealer and bought a 98 Cummins Ram ...

https://www.motortrend.com/news/first-look-twin-turbo-dodge-challenger-demon-170/?lid=chrc3qrq844h&eml=organic%3Aeml%3Abrz2&utm_source=braze&utm_medium=emaileditorial

They should “FORCE”, no pun intended, a Ford driver to put a ford motor in his heap. Not a hemi.

It is an excellent platform. If something happened to my Barracuda I would come back with a Mopar powered fox lol. Light, excellent suspension design, insane aftermarket. The engine compartment seems to accept anything with ease, especially stuff that isn't ford lol.

Die hard mopar fan here. No ferds for me! Kasse makes a great engine for a ferd. By the way, I hope you never hurt your hot rod. It’s a nice car.

It is, and for a long time I was a turbo guy and chasing goals.

Took me a long time to realize that while it's satisfying to reach a goal, it was much less satisfying driving that car on the street.

Sure if I met up with guys who did 2am blasts on the freeway it was fun but 99% of the time it's just frustrating because it's not usable unless you have a wide open road with no police.

I've since went backwards with much slower naturally aspirated cars and have much more fun with them.

Of course to each their own, just sharing my experience. That meaning, having cars that looked stock and trapped 150 in the 1/4, for me, were much less enjoyable overall than naturally aspirated cars with half or less the power.

That's relatable.

The Direct Connection Test car was a fun learning experience.
I don't feel it ever ran to it's potential but showed some possibilities to people
(and showed someone, back then, at Mopar was paying attention to "what was going on", to the growing segment of folks who have no interest in anything NA).

Not a single one of my own ideas or goals were used anywhere, it was all about whatever the engineering lead and my partner on the tech line wanted to do.

Knowing Fiat and Pietro, it wouldn't surprise me if they sent it to the scrapyard.

My horrible attitude aside, experience with that was plenty enough to tell me I wouldn't enjoy that setup for street use.

It ended up with a 440CI aluminum G3 with some ported prototype Apache heads that we probably weren't supposed to have, the giant turbo in the thread and so on.
Do that and you'll run way faster than we did because you'll spend way more time getting it right than we did.

I can see that point. My car runs 10.40s and is very drivable on the street. But it requires good road surface and lots of room to really beat on it on it, adding a cheater whistle for another 500HP doesn't make that any better lol. But more power, tighter converter, smaller cam, also has upsides.

If budget is a factor and you want to stay with a Mopar engine no doubt turbo G3, Eagle or Apache platform.

If budget isn’t a factor G2 Hemi with a blower.

I totally get it.

In my mind, the main attraction for the reliable, streetable 1200hp builds are if you’re using it for some drag n drive duty.
I mean, if you can’t actually “use” all 1200hp……..what’s the point?

It’s not that I don’t like what the turbo guys are doing, or that I don’t “like” them……..it’s mostly I don’t want to deal with all the stuff going on under the hood.

For something I’m going to own and have to wrench on……..I’m embracing dinosaur technology. A single carb and a basic electronic ignition.

100%. That's where I'm at w/ my cuda...I may run one or two more KOS races and then I might be going back naturally aspirated just to have fun. The KOS stuff is fun, but I'm nowhere near fast enough for most of those guys and that's fine. I have a street car...never wanted a race car.

Dont overlook the simplicity of the viper v10 with a couple mid sized turbos.

Sooner then later I will be moving forward with this unit. Plan on a couple small med turbos/cam after pro actively putting on better head gaskets.

Same here with my Challenger. Most don’t believe I drive mine all over on the street and 2 kits for at the track. To and from work, dinners cruise nights, car shows etc. Probably borderline streetable I suppose. Never have the time or money to do the drag and drive events, but it sure looks like fun. Turbo is the way to go for big power/streetability/reliability. Still gathering parts for my next twin turbo Hemi build.

Millennium heads,correct?

My buddy has a 2000 Corvette with a LS turbo set-up. Runs strong. Turbo is in the rear. Launches like a Vett, then the boost comes in and it hauls!

I'd stick a turbo on a 440 but EFI is mandatory. Carbs make u fat !

I am not 1200 HP But here is my story and challenges


Building Street Strip street car has been quite the ride for me, especially since I'm still pretty green when it comes to strip cars. Right now, I've got a F1X Procharger with the smallest pulleys, giving me about 15 lbs of boost. I have the pulley to really turn it up! and hitting higher HP sounds awesome, but I'm worried it might mess with how reliable my car is for street driving, and how likely the engine and trans are going to last... which is my main thing.

I've been trying to keep a good balance between street stuff and being fast on the strip. My ride's got a foot brake car, a tight converter, 3.54 gears, and it runs on pump gas. Plus, I've kept steel fenders/inner fender/interior and no lexan. I've hit some decent times, like 9.60 at 144 mph (very slow off the line with 3.54) and 6.15 in the 1/8 mile at 3780 lbs, but there's still room for improvement, especially with different gear ratios. (I did use race gas additive at the track)

One headache I've run into is cooling, especially on hot days or long drives. The engine gets way too hot because the Air to Air intercooler blocks the radiator. Street driving with this much power is a handful, too. Tires spinning out, even at higher speeds, keeps you on your toes. It's a blast, but I need to remind myslef to respect the power.

I've been thinking about ways to make things work better for both street cruising and strip racing. Maybe running without boost on the street and then kicking it in for the track could be an option. (relatively easy to remap the fuel injection system) Or ditching the intercooler to cool things down better with water/meth injection, even if it means topping up the reservoir now and then. I've even thought about stripping out some of the inner fenders for weight and cooling and high MPH handling, but I kinda like the look of a classic street car.

Going more race mode with 3.72 4.10 gears is tempting, and I am try9ing the 3.73 this year. Should really help 60 fts.
I am not an experienced drag racer and I'm still figuring things out, learning from each step, and keeping an eye on my buddy's setup with the twin-turbo BBC. It's a balancing act, trying to find the sweet spot between street manners and track performance. But hey, every tweak gets me a bit closer to that perfect mix.

Here are some pics

Because its a Mopar I had to make the brackets for the procharger myself. They really work well and are sturdy

If you think the car will handle more starting line ratio in low gear look at changing that ratio to a lower ratio, IE from 2.45 to 2.73 or whatever gear set you can find and like That lets the car cruise better on the streets also
I've done that in the past both ways, higher and lower, to help the traction on the starting line, test, test and tests some more
IHTHs

Never thought of this. Thanks Cab

It would depend on whether or not a power adder could or would be used. If you need to go naturally aspirated, I would get one of the new Keith Black 4.6 in bore Hemi blocks and put a 4 and 3/4-in crank in it, some millennium heads, two dominators on a tunnel ram, and a big old roller cam. That should do it.
If you're going to run a power adder, there's about a million different ways to get there.

If you're going to race in one of the drag and drive power adder classes, you are going up against some serious competition. It seems that anybody with a junkyard LS and a couple of eBay turbos can make 1,500 horsepower. The naturally aspirated classes are generally have a little bit more low hanging fruit.

I have always wanted a power adder mopar based engine. I am a bracket racer, and I like reliability as well. At the track we see a lot of power adder cars, and they are like one hit wonders. Everyone wonders when they are going to get a good hit and make a full pass. Been 9.40's with an NA Mopar and lots of 6.0's in the 1/8th in my bracket car. Been 9.89 in my NA street car, but hoping to drop into the 9.50s this year ..

Older Mopar engines seem to have a few issues when pushing them over 1k power levels. They are fine in 600-800 levels, but after that, issues arise. I think the G3 stuff would be way better at living at that level boosted. I have been using the cubic inches theory for a while, and these days, a stock V6 with a power adder is probably faster. So at this point, I feel like a dinosaur with my old Hemi.

I commend you guys for going the power adder route with a Mopar power plant. I would love to switch my cars all over to G3 stuff with power adders.

The Mustang with the Hemi is one bad unit, and I would probably do a build like that if the big Hemi ever sold.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ps5NcqkGgRo

Way too much time going up in the air on the starting line instead of going forward
My old, much slower bracket car would 60 ft in the mid 1.20s at Las Vegas and run low nines in the 1.4 mile at 140. +MPG or so. That was a bracket motor on E85 N/A
I wonder if he was driving it, motor tune and so on, like it was when driving it on the street on the same fuel

Have built a couple of them. Fro 1200 hp it really doesn't matter much. Two years ago we built a 6.4 Hemi, stock head castings, stock valvetrain, a small hyd roller cam, Holley intake, small primary headers and two HolsetHX 40turbos. Factory block and crank, Molnar Rods and CP pistons. Made 1100+ hp at the wheels. Just a homemade build up. Building a pretty similar set up now that will go in to my '70 New Yorker 4 D sedan. It used to have a 528 wedge with RPM heads, a small comp street roller, Torker 2 intake, blow thru carb and two 66mm Garret's Was never dynoed but I feel it would have made similar power with ease. Only run it once at the track, and it run 11.4/135 mph on DOT tires, 2.73 gears on an unprepped air port, could not really use the power. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xd9OcCfXx0I I think turbos are the way to go. They do not stress the engine when not using power, and they are reliable. A centrifugal might be a little easier to drive because of less lag, but with that little power and a properly sized turbo set up, shouldn't have to do any tricks either.

Dat be a big bruiser

That car break tires loose like crazy.

Impressive!

how did those HX 40's work out , what boost level were you able to see , I have 2 HX40's in the basement that I've had on my cummins powered ram ...

They worked great. Might get to higher rpm with bigger turbos, but to about 5500 they make well over 20 psi if needed. The headers are made out of 1 5/8 water pipe (.120" wall), so it's most likely not an ideal configuration. The engine is in a 2017 Charger and has run 5.6 at 130+ mph in the 1/8. It's lighter than stock though.

One single HX40 on my 2000 Ram was good for 40 psi , I could get 44psi out of an HX35 but it was outside it's efficiency map. The larger cross section of the exhaust housing did make the HX40 a little laggy compared to the HX35 but the EGT was lower and there was less black smoke.

I didn'r realize you built other fast C bodies besides the awesome TT '67 Fury you had over here for Drag Week. That's outstanding!

This is my car and my Youtube channel. I built this Dart in my garage in 10 months with help from my buddy. We did pretty much everything except the final paint, the trans (thanks to Protrans!) and the engine machining (thanks Brian at IMM Engines!) in that video I was on the “small” tire 33x10.5w. I tune the motor, the suspension, and do pretty much everything by myself. I am not a bucks down racer like most think because the car is “pretty” but I digress. I appreciate you guys checking out my videos. Since that video i have made four link changes so it doesn’t hit the tire as hard nor hit the wheelie bars that hard. Also I figured out why the car is stuck in the 8.0’s which turned out to be too much exhaust back pressure so I am in the middle of a big turbo change. Hopefully the car picks up with the new turbos. My first outing should be the MATS in Vegas. I have also finished 2 Dragweeks with it and it has a lot of miles on it. Its 3400 at race weight and it makes about 1200 at the tire at 15psi.

https://youtu.be/_cz9aayDQ-M?si=aUwWXWqGKbQCckyH


That car belongs to a friend of mine in Houston named Rolando. Stock rods, crank, pistons... full interior, a/c, stock seats... everything. 100's of passes...

Very nice program!