What NA engine would you Buld for Drag & Drive?

Can you make +900hp for a reasonable price?

After all I have been thru and learned, I think a 4.5 bore block raised cam block with maybe a 4.75 stroke and Indy 572-13 heads with the Jesel rockers and spray bars 12.4:1 compression and a milder ramp on the cam than full race setup....Thoughts?

My biggest drag and drive engine questions are on the lifters and rockers.

What are most of the N/A and nitrous people using? Bushed or bearing roller lifters, or are non-roller cams preferred?

Steel or aluminum rockers? It seems like once you go past stock style heads there aren't any steel options anymore, but what about for Trick Flows/Edelbrocks/Stealths?

Serious Drag And Drive competitors run bushed lifters, and rockers, and the best you can buy. Roller cams are the norm.

Kurt Johnson, who has won his class more than anyone in DnD events once told us, as soon as he gets home from the event, he pulls the engine, and sells everything out of it, except the block... He has guys waiting to get his good used parts. They are happy to get a deal, he's happy he used up the best life of the part.

A 4.75 stroke crank, is a complete waste of time. You need to decide which class you are going to run in first.

FWIW, T&D machine shows the option of having the rockers made out of steel

W8 turboed or Indy headed 400 turbo or even a pro charger.
Sorry, didn’t see the NA part

The first B1 motor I made for a customer made 920 HP at or around 7000 RPM, it was a World cast grey iron block bored to 4.495 with a 4.250 stroker crank with 7.100 long H beam rods with a set of B1 heads from Koffels with their cast aluminum single Dominator four barrel manifold and a custom ground Comp Cams 3 bolt roller cam. The customer furnished the carbs, they were custom made "Dam Best" Dominator carbs, he had two, a 1050 CFM and a larger 140?? CFM carb that didn't work worth a hoot
I would build a 572 C.I. (4.500x4.500) B1 headed stroker BB on E85 for that deal with dual Mark Sullens prep E85 Dominator carbs on a tunnel ram intake: up:
I'm in the middle of trying to complete an identical KB aluminum block B1 heads up no prep motor for some local 1/8 mile racing, I'm sure this motor will make 1000 + HP on E85, I'll add NOS as needed

An LS or Gen III built well for NA will run you near the top and is probably the best value. I know one mustang with an NA LS 454 ran mid 9s back in 2013 to win the big block NA class. Rey Meyers won Small Block NA in 2016 with his Gen III Hemi ran an average in the 9.7s or 9.8s on pump gas. Both those cars would podium today because the NA classes aren't growing. I know the 2 cars I mentioned both ran stock hydraulic roller valvetrains and stock rocker gear.

Jason Tabscott in his 427" Small Block Chevy went 8.52 today on sick week. That car is awesome because by looking at you know its fast enough to need a cage, but you would likely never guess it would run 8.52@159 unless you saw the chute. He shares a little about his combo, he says it has over 1 inch of lift, its 15:1 and it runs on pump gas for the drives. He Jets down 16 jet sizes to run pump gas. I think it holds together fairly well, I think he can do several events without changing much.

Then there is Curt Johnson who has supposedly retired after tons of wins in the NA classes with big and small block combos. There is another guy in the big block NA class that is in the 8s but I can't remember his name, he runs a big block chevy.

Eddie Miller ran some 8.50s in his duster almost 10 years ago now. Predator big block grandfathered into the pro street class due to floor modifications. He claims he did it on pump gas as well.

Last but not least is Doc Mac in his SEERED 68 Camaro that has a 600++ inch Goodwin Hemi and has runs pretty deep in the 7s NA in the Pro Street class. He is for sure the fastest NA and the only fast NA entry on big tires. Doc's car is a real pro street deal with a radio and wipers and stuff.

That is what I know to be true, I follow this stuff pretty closely and have talked to most of these guys on a drag week at one point.

I can tell you not to build a 68 Barracuda with 70s tech that is almost 400lbs over the class minimum. It got me 3rd place in Street Race Small Block NA in 2021 but likely won't do it again without some big changes lol.

Its an expensive style of event to run, but its awesome. Its 6 days of racing and race car people everywhere you go. Its the backroads and small towns of America in your race car. You can't wait for it to start and you will hate your car for weeks after the event but you will want to sign up for it the next year.

Attached is Jason Tabscott's Camaro and et slip from today.

Ray Barton can do 800's with a pump gas, single 4 bbl, flat tappet cam. A grandma motor compared to what you are asking for. If you want 900 I don't think he's going to have a problem making that.

I would have thought my big Hemi would be making that much by now.....Seems I missed somthing somewhere...

I would prob run a 5.0 bore space hemi, similar to the motor i just sold........ you know, the one in the 69 camaro that destroys everyone in the class and has been 7's

Clark, it’s Eddie Ensor that you are thinking of. Runs an extremely clean Fox body Mustang with a BBC. Jimmy Lopez aka JLo builds his engines.

Oh and Tabscott’s SB runs a Mopar W8 intake on it.

That W8 intake has had ALOT of work done to it. I got to see it before being installed after Sick Week last year. Sick piece. Jasons car has also dropped some weight since last year. Couple of years ago I was staying at the same hotel before RMRW 2.0 started in Tulsa. Had a pow wow in the parking lot that included Jason, Doc McEntire. Jeff McConnel and Mike Crow. Learned alot about NA builds. What Jason does on only 430 C.I. is amazing

That Small block is around 1000hp, to push the Camaro to the ET's it does. The car lost weight over the winter, but it's still no fly weight car, and Jason isn't a small guy. Him, and his wife Amanda are very nice people.

Clark...in 2018, when I met yall at Darlington before the hurricane, I was taken aback by Tabscott's Camaro. That car MOVED...I wasn't expecting it to run like it did. I think it ran 9.0s the pass I saw. After I left the track that day, I looked up the combo and class he was running to see what it was.

Dragula...If you'd sort out what you have, you'd be running where you want. There's no reason your car shouldn't be running low 9s. You have more motor and less weight than I do.

I wouldn't build a NA motor for that. You can run twice as fast with 1/2 the cam if you just put a Wonton war whistle on it

Some people want the challenge. Put that Wonton War Whistle on, and be in a sea of others doing the same thing. Car still must fit into a specific class for the event.

Dr. James Mcintyre is currently running Sick Week with an NA 709 Cu. In. Goodwin Hemi in a 68 Camaro. It's been 7.72 & 7.76 @ 174mph, so far this event. They said He's the fastest NA car ever in Drag & Drive events.

Or run 4s in the eighth and coast to mid 7s

Been doing it for years with Indy heads lmao

While that is impressive, now add everything the car needs to be a "Street" car at these events, AND drive it 1000+ miles. People think it's easy, but are humbled really quick when something simple can take you out of the event. This isn't a weekend bracket race, or heads up race, you can use you golf cart to push the car around the pits...

100% HAS to be the hardest/most challenging part of these events. I would never attempt to drive so many miles , too hard on parts. I will take being pushed/pulled around the pits any day , and im not too proud to admit it. Any one who thinks its easy.... you in for a rude awakening for sure !!!
To answer the OP question.....i would build nothing, i wouldnt attempt this event

If you are ever near one of these events be sure and go watch. Get there early because lots of guys run and leave. Turn your Mopar or no car attitude off and walk around the pits and look at all the crazy wild stuff. Lots of innovation, lots of show quality fab work, and there is always some weird off the wall stuff to look at also. There is usually always some top level sleeper stuff as well. Last year my Dad and I were talking to a guy next to us. He had a Honda civic, clean black, looked very very stock. It had been converted to all wheel drive and had a turbo on it. It had a full exhaust system and would have been an impressive little 12 second stick shift sleeper. It ran like a 9.30@155 lol.

I would love to see someone do it with a Gen III hemi, stock truck 6.4 heads can be made to flow 400 CFM and with 440 cubes, big cam and big compression I see no reason it can't be done. BES won engine masters with 700 HP thru lower flowing heads and RPM and compression and other restrictions.

Spot on Clark.I remember when we arrived at Atlanta Dragway to test, prior to the event, and the normal bracket cars were running low 10's, high 9's, in a gutted bracket car, and then a DW car pulled up to the line, and ripped off a mid 7 second pass. It was the nicest car on the property at the time.

It's amazing the friendships you gain, just by attending the event. It's overwhelming being around like minded people all week. So many laughs, and people willing to help one another.

The most nerve wracking part of the event is pulling out of the gate on Day 1, and leaving everything behind, in a car that shouldn't be doing what it's doing.

I believe SB is restricted to 430ci???

As someone really smart already posted my choice if money if no object is a 5" or 5.3" borespace piece. Not particular about the heads honestly but already some of them out there on pump gas that make 14-1500hp.

You are correct.

Despite my car having been my sole mode of transportation for many years at one point the first checkpoint in DW 2012 was the farthest my car had ever been driven out of town lol. Things didn't get super real for me until I rolled into the burnout box 350 miles from home.

How hard do you want to work to do a changeover for the drive? Some racers have changed rocker arms to a 1.3 ratio to take stress off the valve train. Also cooling is a big part of the drive Jeff Lutz had a radiator the size used in a semi.

For the record look at the small things that have taken out racers in the past. Today a chevelle dropped out because the fuel tank fell out.

I didn't think about bushed rockers too, but that totally makes sense. More wear and friction but less chance of a needle bearing failure.

Metallicreload- thanks for the heads up, I didn't realize T&D made replacements for stock rockers. They have one listed for Edelbrocks so those should work well with Trick Flows.

Maybe it's just easier to hear about them now with the multiple Facebook groups and the youtube coverage but it's surprising how many cars drop out either on day 0 or day 1. Moparpollack, I saw that Chevelle tank as well. I've never seen that happen, ever. I've had a gas tank fall out of a vehicle before but that was due to rust, not from the tank inflating to 3x normal size and popping the straps off!

So about unusual cars....this ran an 8.07 at Bradenton.

My junk is not the fastest but did come in 3rd in drag week super street small block na in 21 it's a r5p7. I think most of the issues in drag and drive stuff are valve train and fuel pump. The nascar guys spent tons of time on a spintron marketing the valve train bulletproof. And the cv mechanical fuel pump flows plenty. The biggest issue is it gets very expensive to make it more cubes.

That damn red Hemi Camaro of Doc's is killing the NA class in Sick Week this year.....Man that car is a beast with the Goodwin Hemi...7.76 yestarday....Not a cheap engine.



I am working on it and trying to address the issues. Its all apart right now, and #5 intake Valve Spring was broken, and we are looking at different options. Spray bars are now built and test fitted to keep the springs happy. The milder ramp cam is going in, and we are dropping valve spring pressure some for the new cam as well. Checking everything over real good.

That Hearse has an actual casket as a trailer. Its been on RMRW numerous times. Used to be Procharged now has a set of twins.