Mini starter question

While I have the engine out I'm going to go with a mini starter. I know a 96 Ram, Dakota starter will work, I have also read that an 05-08 Ram manual trans Hemi starter will, they are smaller. Will these work? Thoughts.

i have been thinking about that manual starter being smaller as well.
however, i'm like you.
it would be nice if someone could show [side by side if possible] the size difference between the two, then we would know for certain.
it could also point out design differences [?] that may interfere [?] with other items such as header clearance to the starter cables.

I have a factory Dakota starter on my Savoy. Not sure what year it is but I put new contacts in it 16 years ago before I installed. It is one of the few starters that will fit with a 143 tooth flywheel and a steel bell. It may even be from a V6 because it's pretty small but it starts my 493 even on 90 degree days.
I can't stress enough that you buy a real Denso unit made in Detroit or Japan. Stay away from the many Chinese copies at the parts stores because they are hit or miss for quality. Mancini Racing sells the real thing but be prepared to spend twice as much money. You can also get a Denso re-man that is like a brand new one.

Gus

I'm using the 05 starter, but it's a 5.7 with 518
Thing I don't like is the power stud, comes 90 deg, compared to straight up for the old mini

https://board.moparts.org/ubbthread...adapter-lug-for-starter.html#Post3070253

Here are photos from Rockauto - I can't see any obvious size difference. Top is '05 Ram manual trans. Bottom is '95 Dakota

It's definitely smaller, will take some pics, when I can find the old mini

Based on the photos I don’t see anything smaller. If you compare the snout sizes in each photo they’re virtually identical meaning the scale of each photo is pretty damn close and so are the complete motors. Exactly “what” part is smaller?

Let’s see your photos.

This is a 05 starter, your top pic is wrong

I'm thinking that would work, even if you have drill threads out of the mount holes.

Thanks, I picked the wrong engine option when I looked on Rockauto. So is that solenoid a replaceable item - sold separately?

Looking at the R A website it looks like it is.

so the common mini starter is [looks like] a gear reduction style, while the smaller one is direct drive ?

05 is narrow, but taller

Betting the smaller straight one has an internal gear reduction, like a planetary in an automatic transmission.

I'm guessing no performance advantage, just fitment. Both probably have the same torque rating.

https://www.motortrend.com/how-to/ccrp-1207-lightweight-pmgr-starters-junkyard-builder/

The first Chrysler gear reduction starters used offset gears that added width. The advantage to late-model PMGR starters is the planetary gear-reduction system that multiplies torque while being entirely in line with the armature shaft. Planetary gear multiplication (similar to gear reduction in automatic transmissions) produces a major torque increase within a very small envelope.

That's what I'm looking for, it's smaller. I would like to see one mounted b/4 I buy one. It looks like it might work.

Do a search, within the last 2 months this came up, the guy thought it wouldn't work with BB.
I'll say same thing here, as I did in that other post.

Buy it on Amazon, free delivery, if it doesn't fit, free returns, $85

I am not a big internet auto parts shopper, that being said I have never bought any auto parts from Amazon or Rock Auto, how is the quality of the parts they sell?
I have bought some cheaper Chineze hard part years ago and recently some SB Mopar aluminum Speed Master heads from Pro Form, but I haven't taken them out of their boxes yet to look at them
What say you guys on this
Thanks in advance

So I see you are using one. My problem is the starter has to be mounted b/4 the engine goes in. Abody w/TTi chassis headers. So it's not that easy. I remember reading that thread, that's where I got the idea.

The 05 starters are more powerful compared to the mini starters (1.7 kw vs 1.4 kw) despite being smaller. Problem with the 05 Hemi starter is the solenoid on top - it will hit the block. But look what I did to solve the issue:

Before



After:





https://www.forbbodiesonly.com/moparforum/threads/my-new-special-mini-starter.220875/

Cool that you were able to cut and weld it to work on a Big Block.
Do you think it could simply be rotated 90 degrees with the 4? assembly bolts?
I have tons of room on the outside of the starter on my chassis car, the headers are nowhere near it.

Have you used it yet?
I’m assuming you used some sort of cut off wheel?
Reason I ask, I once went at it with a grinder on an alternator, wasn’t careful and got metal shaving on the windings.
That alternator lasted a week.
So how did you protect the inside of the starter while cutting?

That is an innovative, awesome job!

What flavor gum is that?





















Just kidding !!

Have not used it but shouldn't be a big deal as I had it disassembled when I cut it. Cutting was done on a band saw and was welded by a professional welder. I put shims between the two halves to make up for width of the cut and the had it welded. After everything was done I reassembled the starter.

Here are some pictures of the making of:

starter guts without the case

You can't do that unfortunately as the solenoid mount and snout are one piece and only allows you to mount it one way. Cutting it apart allows you to turn everything 180 degrees only as you have to use the original bolt holes - you can't drill new ones as there is not enough meat (the bolt holes are drilled in cast in bosses).

If the starter ever takes a crap I just buy a new one and swap the guts.

I can’t understand what all the fitment issues are with these starters. I’ve used them on big and small blocks for years without any trouble. I’ve gotten them on eBay, junkyards, local auto parts stores. On my Keith Black block I did have some minor block grinding to do but it was a five minute job.

Yes they have always worked for me as well with minimal work. Of course you have to take off the black plastic "adapter" most of them come with, and I had one that the studs were a little close to the block so I ground them a little shorter. Headers are a wild card, of course as they are all a little different, but I was able to make them work with 2 kinds of those as well fairly easily.

Not sure what the variable is that is causing some folks trouble?

Simple, look at pics posted, this discussion is about the NEWER mini starters

I modified mine with a manual push button to activate the starter from underneath the car to adjust clutch counterweights. Simply manually moving the inner solenoid to make contact. No extra wiring or need for assistance.

thank you !
i understand now. [provided i can remember this. ]

I assume the planetary gear system is in this section.

FWIW, you can get a 1990's style mini-starter with 1.65 kw (Power Master XS). This is the "dyno" sheet that came with the one I bought. Rated 1.4 kw, actual 1.65 kw

correct

They always rate lower, this 05 actually measured 1.8kW