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A "Racing to the stripe" question

Posted By: Jeepmon

A "Racing to the stripe" question - 04/10/09 05:59 PM

I need some teaching about when to race full out to the stripe and when to back off so you win by a fender.. So I have a question for you all..

Assuming its a clean race.. no one breaks out, no one red lights and no other foul.. Will the first car to the stripe always win?
Posted By: WILD BILL

Re: A "Racing to the stripe" question - 04/10/09 06:12 PM

Yes.
Posted By: G_bob

Re: A "Racing to the stripe" question - 04/10/09 08:09 PM

Yep, that's the name of the game.

Cross the finish line first without breaking out or redlighting.

** not that I actually have any experience doing the above.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: A "Racing to the stripe" question - 04/10/09 08:31 PM

Keep your foot in it..letting off or applying the brakes on the topend is the way SISSY race...and is not acceptable by many racers..
Posted By: Lil Demon

Re: A "Racing to the stripe" question - 04/10/09 08:34 PM

Not always - My car breaks the beams with the tires given the nose swoops upwards. I've lost a race or two where I knew I was there first - only to go over and find a stripe taker hanging underneath the nose of the other guys car. Oh well. Now I look when I'm in the lanes - lesson learned.
Posted By: Locomotion

Re: A "Racing to the stripe" question - 04/10/09 08:35 PM

...but it is more complicated because people play games, like push or lead you till just before the finish, then dump you allowing you to take the stripe anticipating that you will break out!

Some know their cars so well that they know where they are and where they should be through the run. Everything is planned out. Some can dump, some can actually close it up to LESS than a hundredth. People who do play games usually prefer a faster car because they can see the slower car at all times and it's easier to judge what to do at the finish.

Regardless of whether you race all-out to run your dial, sandbag, play games or whatever, you have to be consistent and know how your car's ET is affected by shift points, weather, wind, temps, braking at a certain point on the track, etc. It also helps to have an idea of how your opponent races and what he/she dials in relationship to what they run. Attentive pit crew and an asset.



To expand on what Lil Demon said, some people use the natural long nose or spoiler of their car and/or run soft shocks to dip the nose when braking at the right time to trip the beams also.
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: A "Racing to the stripe" question - 04/10/09 08:35 PM

Quote:

Keep your foot in it..letting off or applying the brakes on the topend is the way SISSY race...and is not acceptable by many racers..




Guess you dont bracket race..... I must be a SISSY
Posted By: 493_DART

Re: A "Racing to the stripe" question - 04/10/09 08:36 PM

Quote:

Keep your foot in it..letting off or applying the brakes on the topend is the way SISSY race...and is not acceptable by many racers..




i would have lost a ton of rounds if i did that
Posted By: Locomotion

Re: A "Racing to the stripe" question - 04/10/09 08:47 PM

Quote:

Keep your foot in it..letting off or applying the brakes on the topend is the way SISSY race...and is not acceptable by many racers..




In class and bracket racing, it is a legal option that many racers do. They take advantage of anything that will help them win races and the rest of the racers simply have to deal with it. Best way to deal with it is to get yourself and the car more consistent and predictable.

However, excessive braking is usually frowned upon and tire smoke at the finish line can lead to a disqualification.
Posted By: rickstershemi

Re: A "Racing to the stripe" question - 04/10/09 08:57 PM

Yep.....I watched a guy in a beautiful camaro destroy that sucker at the stripe hitting the brakes last weekend at SGMP. He learned the hard way and now has no car

But it's done all the time and I'm guilty myself

Rickster
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: A "Racing to the stripe" question - 04/10/09 10:55 PM

heres a u tube video of my car which is dialed in very good that day, mu opponent i knew was running quicker than his dial in, he was banking on me cutting a bad light or redlighting, so i ran my best, im the blue dodge on the left. watch the left car 63 plymouths dial in and et at the stripe.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1Sn3zGG_aQ
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: A "Racing to the stripe" question - 04/10/09 11:22 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Keep your foot in it..letting off or applying the brakes on the topend is the way SISSY race...and is not acceptable by many racers..




Guess you dont bracket race..... I must be a SISSY





As a matter of fact i do bracket race...
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: A "Racing to the stripe" question - 04/10/09 11:27 PM

As a matter of fact i do bracket race...





And you never let off the pedal or hit the brakes
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: A "Racing to the stripe" question - 04/10/09 11:33 PM

Quote:

As a matter of fact i do bracket race...





And you never let off the pedal or hit the brakes





That right keep my foot in it all the way...
Posted By: dusturbd340W5

Re: A "Racing to the stripe" question - 04/10/09 11:34 PM

I know a lot of guys play the games but I say dial the car and run it out the back and because of that I most likely wont go many rounds LOL
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: A "Racing to the stripe" question - 04/10/09 11:44 PM

Quote:

Quote:

As a matter of fact i do bracket race...





And you never let off the pedal or hit the brakes





That right keep my foot in it all the way...




I guess you've never been way out front coming near
the finish line, I always let off if the other guy
is cars back... that way I dont break out
Posted By: rickstershemi

Re: A "Racing to the stripe" question - 04/11/09 12:16 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

As a matter of fact i do bracket race...





And you never let off the pedal or hit the brakes





That right keep my foot in it all the way...




I guess you've never been way out front coming near
the finish line, I always let off if the other guy
is cars back... that way I dont break out





Yep, if I had looked back at the ProAm I'd have a sweet Ironman sitting in the display case...not to mention a couple of xtra G's in the wallet...

Rickster
Posted By: moparacer

Re: A "Racing to the stripe" question - 04/11/09 12:21 AM

Quote:

I guess you've never been way out front coming near
the finish line, I always let off if the other guy
is cars back... that way I dont break out





I had a guy go flying by me one day and take the stripe by about 2 cars....I just turned him loose and my win light came on. Later on in the day he was hanging around the staging lanes and I asked him why he didnt lift on me down at the finish line as we were pretty close on the tree and he said he didnt realize we were allowed to let off the gas before the finish line.....

I said ooooook well now I wish I hadnt told you that!

Posted By: ChrisJohnston669

Re: A "Racing to the stripe" question - 04/11/09 12:59 AM

Jeepmon, The goal is to try to get to the stripe first and take as little as possible stripe. I like to shoot for .015 and less. Make sure you also know the finish line at the track. I know of some crooked finish line tracks.

Here is what I go by.

-Know that you hit the tree.
- Trust your car.
- Dial what you think it's going to run

If you know you hit the tree and you can trust your dial the finish line racing becomes much easier.

For example if you hit the tree and your chasing a guy down and you don't catch him....dump him right before the stripe. chances are he is either dead on or breaking out. If you are being chased and the guy hangs a fender on you push him out until the last minute then hit the brakes right before the stripe.

I wouldn't try ' sand baggin ' until you've got the stripe figured out pretty well.
Posted By: 440Jim

Re: A "Racing to the stripe" question - 04/11/09 01:01 AM

When racing with a break-out (run-out) rule in effect, never take more stripe than you need. ie if you are ahead, don't cross first by half a car length...
Posted By: Quicktree

Re: A "Racing to the stripe" question - 04/11/09 01:37 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Keep your foot in it..letting off or applying the brakes on the topend is the way SISSY race...and is not acceptable by many racers..




Guess you dont bracket race..... I must be a SISSY





As a matter of fact i do bracket race...




yea and how many races have you ever won?
Posted By: Al_Alguire

Re: A "Racing to the stripe" question - 04/11/09 01:46 AM

Don,Well I know you know my feeling on the subject. In a car like yours running in Pro you can get some pretty significant ET differences. Everybody does it there own way. I am not a big ET holder, we try to dial the car hard and the figure out what to do at the other end. I have an advantage sometimes of being the faster car but not so often around here at Infineon particlarly, lots of fast pipe racks for sure. Liek already stated you gotta know your car and what it can do, you gotta hit the tree consistently and you have to trust the car and your dial..

Good luck, BTW you gonna be out there tomorrow?
Posted By: topfueldart

Re: A "Racing to the stripe" question - 04/11/09 01:48 AM

Quote:


yea and how many races have you ever won?




Posted By: Leigh

Re: A "Racing to the stripe" question - 04/11/09 01:58 AM

Isn't it stange, how many racers are "Holder's"? I definately do not fall into that catagory. I have to FORCE myself to dial soft. It's a double edged sword, and you will die from both methods. I guess I really am a high C person. (Max on systems and anal retentiveness.) Hey, I just let you know my weakness.
Posted By: Al_Alguire

Re: A "Racing to the stripe" question - 04/11/09 02:11 AM

One of the hardest things for me to get over was GIVING the stripe away. I learned after breaking out enough that you dont ALWAYS want it.
Posted By: Leigh

Re: A "Racing to the stripe" question - 04/11/09 02:19 AM

Yes, so true.
Posted By: 10 o to go

Re: A "Racing to the stripe" question - 04/11/09 02:32 AM

you better learn to play the topend .Beating a car to the strip and not lifting breakout by a thousandth will eat at you.If you drill the tree and he doesn't you'll be beat.
I've watch racers never look around and the other guys car died on the starting line then restart it and the dude broke out,he never looked back.Bracket racing is more than most think that it is.
Knowing how much et, mph you have then you scrub off just lifting its less with a faster car.
What about the other guy going through the traps first by a car you should lift not to take the chance of you breaking out.
don


Attached picture 5156834-FRONTLAUNCH[2].jpg
Posted By: Jeepmon

Re: A "Racing to the stripe" question - 04/11/09 02:48 AM

Thanks guys for your advice.. it will all be taken in..

What prompted me to ask this question was one of the races at MATS in Vegas last month.. My opponent was a very skilled racer and a true veteran of the sport..

I dont remember the specifics, but I dialed in a slightly faster time than he did.. Mine was an 11.48 to his 11.61.

At the tree, I got a jump on him by having a better light.. I think it was a .03x to his .07x... Within the first 100 feet or so, I caught him and took a slight lead.. By half track, I had a full car length on himm but he started to pull on me..

At the MPH lights, I knew he wasnt going to catch me, so because of being a rookie racer and because of everyones advice, I tapped the brakes lightly as we crossed the finish line.. As we crossed, his front bumper was even with my car doors, so there was no doubt I crossed the line first...

I got the win light, but when studying the time slip, something seemed funny to me..

I dialed in 11.48 and ran an 11.56
He dialed in 11.61 and ran 11.67

I had a .04 advantage at the tree..
He came closer to his dial in by .02... which by my math means the MOV should have been .02-ish in my favor.. yet according to the time slip.. it was an MOV of .0017

Does this make sense to anyone?
Posted By: Pleaz

Re: A "Racing to the stripe" question - 04/11/09 03:26 AM

Also be aware that lifting against a car that is a second or more faster than you can be tricky. The worse thing is misjudging a faster car, lifting, and watching him come around you at the line. I have done this, and it sucks!
Posted By: 10 o to go

Re: A "Racing to the stripe" question - 04/11/09 03:27 AM

Quote:

Thanks guys for your advice.. it will all be taken in..

What prompted me to ask this question was one of the races at MATS in Vegas last month.. My opponent was a very skilled racer and a true veteran of the sport..

I dont remember the specifics, but I dialed in a slightly faster time than he did.. Mine was an 11.48 to his 11.61.

At the tree, I got a jump on him by having a better light.. I think it was a .03x to his .07x... Within the first 100 feet or so, I caught him and took a slight lead.. By half track, I had a full car length on himm but he started to pull on me..

At the MPH lights, I knew he wasnt going to catch me, so because of being a rookie racer and because of everyones advice, I tapped the brakes lightly as we crossed the finish line.. As we crossed, his front bumper was even with my car doors, so there was no doubt I crossed the line first...

I got the win light, but when studying the time slip, something seemed funny to me..

I dialed in 11.48 and ran an 11.56
He dialed in 11.61 and ran 11.67

I had a .04 advantage at the tree..
He came closer to his dial in by .02... which by my math means the MOV should have been .02-ish in my favor.. yet according to the time slip.. it was an MOV of .0017

Does this make sense to anyone?



you have to take the lights into that equation
If you were 40 better to his lightthats why you were able to lift that much .But watch lifting to hard because the other car might not be scrubbing any mph off and come around you.
don

Attached picture 5156975-challengerfavorite.jpg
Posted By: 493_DART

Re: A "Racing to the stripe" question - 04/11/09 07:53 AM

Quote:

you better learn to play the topend .Beating a car to the strip and not lifting breakout by a thousandth will eat at you.If you drill the tree and he doesn't you'll be beat.
I've watch racers never look around and the other guys car died on the starting line then restart it and the dude broke out,he never looked back.Bracket racing is more than most think that it is.
Knowing how much et, mph you have then you scrub off just lifting its less with a faster car.
What about the other guy going through the traps first by a car you should lift not to take the chance of you breaking out.
don





exactly .

I know when ive cut a sh4t light , i can feel it. at that point its a quick decision at the stripe . dump the other guy can work......sometimes.....

However, a lot of times you think you hit the light hard and you get the dam timeslip and its a .075 or something...
Posted By: Chassisman

Re: A "Racing to the stripe" question - 04/11/09 08:30 AM

This whole thread is the reason I built a car that will run 9's....but I dial 10.77....of course I can go 127-129 mph out the back......but it gives me plenty of closing speed on un suspecting cars...it also allows me to break out alot of 9 sec cars(when I'm pull the top that hard they tend to try to run me down.....everyone plays this game different....
Posted By: Chris'sBarracuda

Re: A "Racing to the stripe" question - 04/11/09 09:57 AM

Here is an example of last week in Vegas 2nd round Super Street... 11.05 index

Close racing. Dwight has a stripe taker..

(W) Dwight Downing S/ST 11.05 0.034 11.054 0.004
(L) Gary Thompson S/ST 11.05 0.034 11.048 -0.002



Chris..
Posted By: fast383duster

Re: A "Racing to the stripe" question - 04/11/09 12:14 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Keep your foot in it..letting off or applying the brakes on the topend is the way SISSY race...and is not acceptable by many racers..




Guess you dont bracket race..... I must be a SISSY





I hold a few numbers (not a bunch) I like to know I am covered should the car spin... I have a brake pedal and can slow the car down, but nothing to make it go fast should I loose et at the launch.
Posted By: 440Jim

Re: A "Racing to the stripe" question - 04/11/09 01:21 PM

Quote:

Isn't it stange, how many racers are "Holder's"?


I wouldn't recommend holding anything. Dial what you think it will run. But you still have to drive the finish line. If you are dialed tight, any little thing can cause a break out (wind, pressure increase, temp drop while you are in the staging lanes, etc).

I never hold. I either dial exactly what I think, or give 0.01 safe. ie I think it will run 9.157, so I dial 9.15. If I think it will run 9.152 I can dial safe at 9.14

And IMO, when the two cars differ by 25 mph or more, it is hard to judge no matter which car is yours.
Posted By: dizuster

Re: A "Racing to the stripe" question - 04/11/09 01:44 PM

Quote:

Quote:

As a matter of fact i do bracket race...





And you never let off the pedal or hit the brakes





That right keep my foot in it all the way...




Ooo Ooo I'll take that guy in the first round!!!
Posted By: Quicktree

Re: A "Racing to the stripe" question - 04/11/09 03:43 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

As a matter of fact i do bracket race...





And you never let off the pedal or hit the brakes





That right keep my foot in it all the way...




Ooo Ooo I'll take that guy in the first round!!!




thats about the only round you will find him unless they have buy backs
Posted By: Irun5snd8th

Re: A "Racing to the stripe" question - 04/11/09 04:13 PM

Posted By: TMP66

Re: A "Racing to the stripe" question - 04/11/09 06:32 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

As a matter of fact i do bracket race...





And you never let off the pedal or hit the brakes





That right keep my foot in it all the way...




Ooo Ooo I'll take that guy in the first round!!!




Quack Quack
Posted By: Tommy D

Re: A "Racing to the stripe" question - 04/11/09 07:58 PM

I agree with a lot of the responses here. It's a constant battle to play in your head before hitting the tree. I feel that if you dial what you think the car will run, minus .01 (example, car will run 10.98, dial 10.97.) you should be safe. If I cut a good light, I'm usually in good shape. I start looking over my shoulder before getting in high gear (I'm usually the slower car which I feel adds more of an advantage due to consistency). I will very rarely touch the brake pedal, as I feel I do not have to. If I lift gradually I can usually scrub some ET and stay safe doing it. By finding your competitor early in the run, you can do a constant evaluation on where they are compared to you. You need to keep looking back toward the finish line to make sure you are going straight, hitting your shift points, and looking for the stripe.

Being a machine, the car will do the same thing over and over again if all the conditions are the same. If your launch RPM is the same, shift point is the same, tire pressure is the same, engine temp is the same, and the car doesn't spin/bog/break, and the weather doesn't change, and noone spills fluid in your lane... it should run the same number over and over. There have been plenty of rounds where something above didn't happen the right way. If that happens, you KNOW you aren't going to run the number...So keep it to the wood and hope they break out.

Also don't be afraid to keep it to the wood if you feel it is going to bee too close to call. I heard an old drag racer say once..."I'd rather lose than lift". I think that he meant somewhat of a slam on bracket racing, but it holds true for the scenario above.

Take that for what it's worth. I am by no means good at the sport, but I believe in the program. The old "Bracket Racer Magazine" had great tips on index racing. If you get a chance the "Mr Dirt" series is especially good.

The biggest aid to a bracket racer's off-season regimen (to me anyway) is the use of a practice tree. You can run thousands of runs at night, in the rain, in the snow...whatever using a practice tree. Who wouldn't want to improve their chances on race day by buying a little device to put in the corner of the garage. I'll hit it while walking by over and over. They help more than anything else I have ever used, yet I hear of more racers that don't use one than I hear racer's that do. I guess that's better for us and maybe I shouldn't say it on here.
Posted By: dizuster

Re: A "Racing to the stripe" question - 04/11/09 08:47 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

As a matter of fact i do bracket race...





And you never let off the pedal or hit the brakes





That right keep my foot in it all the way...




Ooo Ooo I'll take that guy in the first round!!!




Quack Quack




Now that is funny...LMAO....
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