1200 Horsepower options?

Has to be a Single cast intake single 4, Cast Iron Block Wedge Engine.
Has anyone built anything close and tested on a realistic Dyno with numbers?
Thanks

1200 hp with a single four cast intake will be a little tough to find. Not sure anyone builds a NA crate engine that hits that number. GM just announced a ZZ632 big block which makes 1000 hp with a cast single four intake. Sounds like a very impressive combo but GM hasn't announced a price yet. You can call Best Machine and Ray Barton to see what those two shops tell you. I don't think you have many options in the Mopar world to hit that number.

They are saying 16-17k on the ZZ632

If you want a mopar BB that makes 1200 call chuck at Best . He has done it already .

Think that article said the 572 was that price, not the 632, which they didn't have a price on, as i recall, just speculation

Thanks for the correction.


The few things ive read said in the neighborhood of. Whats neighborhood mean, 17, 18k? Should be interesting.

The Detroit automaker did not offer a price to go along with this impressive new beast of a motor, but a new 572 with 727 horsepower typically costs around $16,000. Expect the price for this new 632 to be in that neighborhood. And start thinking of places to stick it.

Lol. Easy . But not N/A

Can probably be done or close to it, but with a well massaged modified cast single-4 intake converted for EFI, very very good set of heads/all other parts combo, and in the hands of the right engine builder who has a warehouse for you to fill it with enough cash! Call Best Machine, Book Racing, Buck, Uratchko, BES or even Brett Miller could get down with it if he wanted to.

With or without a power adder?

Here is a 1200 hp BBC with a single 4 bbl. Price isn't too bad. I bet a Mopar will cost $50K or $60K to make the same power.
https://www.besracing.com/611-bbc-conventional-headed-racing-engine.html

Here is a 632 Big Chief engine that is rated at 1200 hp. Single 4 intake. Price seems to be in line with what I'd expect.
https://awesomeengines.biz/bbc-632ci-1200-hp-big-chief-engine/

Naturally aspirated with no spray

As bad as I hate to say it, BBC is probably going to be the most reasonable option.

It's going to be expensive to begin with but you will easily take the Chevy price and double it for anything Mopar at this level.

If this is a track class requirement, then they are only looking for GM power in the class. Hemi head, NA not that much of an issue for the right $.

They are saying likely north of that.....

It can be done if your pockets are deep enough and you are willing to go there and have time to spend waiting for it to get done.

As for the Chevy engine it is a new cylinder head, symetrical spread port deal. It wont be coming in anywhere near $16-17k

This is well inside the bracket of "if the purpose is to go fast, boost is the best value per dollar spent".

My guess on the new ZZ632 price is $28,000 but that is just a guess based on where the market for 1000 hp BBC crate motors is. Some of it depends on if the EFI system is complete with controller, injectors and throttle body or if it is just a bare intake manifold. The EFI system alone will add another $5000 to the bill. Shafiroff sells a 632 twisted 20 crate engine that makes 1000 hp for $22,000. By the time you put some good parts on it the price goes up a few thousand but it is still a good deal compared to asking the machine shop at the local NAPA to build you a 1000 hp engine.
https://www.shafiroff.com/chevy-pump-gas-engine/632-bigdawg-twisted-sr20.php

http://sunsetperformanceengines.com/engines.cfm

Take your pick of cubes and head design from their pro series

605 to 655 cubic inch with Predator heads. The only doubtful is a single carb which would have to be at least a 1450 but easy with a tunnel ram and 2 dominators. I know a member here that had a 605 Predator with 2 carbs and with weight, et, calculation was right there with 2 carbs. I am in Ohio if you are close. Birdtracker

Best machine has built 1200+ Hp BB mopar 632

BES has built B1 engines that have made almost 1100 , one carb .

I’m sure BES or Best Machine can build a Predator head engine that could make 1200.
Does it have to be carb ? Fuel inj probably a better option because you can use 2200cfm throttle body

IF price is important….. don’t build a BB mopar , GM is a lot cheaper

LOL

I'm hoping to build my next all out drag race BB wedge motor next year with a 4.500 bore Koleno high nickel block and use a old 4.375 stroke Sonny Bryant top fuel crank with full counterweights.
I'll use a set of B1-MC heads with a sheet metal 2x4 tunnel ram intake but I may try the cast single four barrel intake with a single1050 CFM Holley Dominator first along with maybe testing E85 as fuel on the single carb deal
I'm shooting for 1000 HP+ with the single four set up on race gas and 1100+HP on the 2x4 barrel set up on the best sheet metal tunnel ram intake, I have two of those intakes to test

I think this is a good indicator that the end of the Mopar SB and BB are on the last leg. How often do you see a non hemi Mopar winning at the track or street when the HP requirements are over 1200-1500. Thank God we have a strong foothold on the nostalgia classes, Mopar days and stock eliminator.

Yeah I was very surprised to see GM introduce a 1000 hp crate engine. That is crazy but also kind of cool. If those engines are available and the price is fair then you'll start to see a lot of them show up at the track. Mopar Performance could've introduced a 1000 hp big block crate engine years ago when had the blocks but I don't think there was anyone left at MP in those days who had the guts to make a project like that happen. It could've been done but it would've required breaking some of MP's old rules about which kind of parts to use.

Mopar would need a non-clownshow to do machining and assembly. And after they crapped all over Chapman, why would you want to associate with Mopar? S/F....Ken M

99 Hemi and be done. Would have to make a "cast" intake but HP goal would be met and exceeded.

Mopar has some nice choices at the 1000hp level, not so much at +1200hp level. That's going to be more of a one off, but it can be done. Me, I like the moved Center Line, 4.84 bore space 655 Millenium Hemi that Best Machine did a couple years ago. Made north of 1350hp...Problem is, no one makes a cast intake for those heads, so that leaves us just one choice...

A predator head engine. Problem is the cubes....I don't think there is a moved center line block & head for those available, but if there is, I would go that route but those heads do use a Hemi block, so maybe Best Machine can do another one of those blocks....no idea.

Lastly, as suggested, the Pro-stock Hemi 99...But again, the cast intake is the issue...Looks like those use a chevy 4.9 or 5.0 bore space block. Makes sense if you think about it. the chevy guys use non-skirted blocks like PS, and whomever builds one of these is likely to use a GM trans....block would typically be all setup that way. There are a couple for sale right now. Check RJ and For A-bodies only.

After all these years, we have trouble getting stock bore space replacement blocks, let alone anything after market to go even further with...Kinda tells you where the Mopar hobby is going...

Yeah, and I can see the local relative well to do midlife crisis GM wing nut buying one putting it in their bracket car and going 10.50's

Or just putting it on display in their mini Garage Mahal.

Goodwin Competition made 1200+ HP NATURALLY ASPIRATED w/ an Indy -1 head on a dragweek motor built for nitrous. You believe that?

In reality, I think it would take something like a Predator or a good B1 MC or PSO to do it. Or whatever the biggest Indy conventional heads are now...600-13 or something like that?

FWIW the Goodwin stuff, ie 600-13xxx or whatever they call it sure seems capable in the couple that are out there. The cast intake for the 99 can be over come if one doesn't mind spending the $$. Be the same stuff we were forced to do in NA10.5 when we had a large weight break for a cast intake. But it can get really expensive, think two sheet metal intakes for the cost of one cast intake. While I have not ever really given it alot of thought but might be interesting to look at a 99 and see what if any cast intakes out there could be cut up to work. Like was done with the B1TS stuff back in the day. May not be so difficult now alot ore stuff out there. I know of a certain B1TS deal that has two cup intakes cut up and welded to gether in ordr to make the cast intake rule work for them.

I find that 1200 NA from a -1 head hard to believe. Im not saying its not true, but wow thats hard to believe. A -1 head can flow 400cfm, but still hard to believe. Now 1200 with nitrous, yes that i will believe all day long

Exactly. Some guy all over the Mopar pages on FB has a white Duster he's putting together (writing checks) for drag week, supposedly, and loves posting pics of it. Gets real butthurt when anyone questions it.
Goodwin builds some awesome stuff, but I wonder what they know about making power w/ -1 heads that NOBODY else does.

Yeah, tooling up a cast intake would cost less than trying to make some other combo work. Shouldn't be much more difficult that figuring what really works and then making a pattern. Although I'm not sure how well supported the 99 Hemi is anymore. Might be a struggle to find parts.

I agree. 1000 hp with a Mopar big block should be fairly easy using off the shelf parts, but 1200 hp might be either super difficult or impossible depending on who is doing it and how much money they have to spend.

99 Hemi stuff is becoming harder and harder to find. Just went through this with a fellow board member who was trying to locate one. Took alot of phone calls and finally found a customer of a builder that had a spare he was willing to part with.

IMO as I said earlier a 1200 HP BB Mopar can be done. Yes even a single cast 4 can be. A 655" 600-13x deal should get you really close. We have one in bracket mode that makes 1100. We have done a couple Predators that were in the 1150 range with a single 4 so again not full tilt deals but not exactly typical bracket stuff ether. A PSO or TS deal can likely get there as well. Bottom line there are options if you are willing to go out on that ledge and spend the money.

Best Machine posted this a while back...4.84 bore space Hemi....Bad engine right there...1359hp! Again no cast intake, but if you could re-config to Predator heads for the 4.84 bore centerline, you would have everything you need...A cast intake, +1300hp, and all in a Mopar...

https://board.moparts.org/ubbthread...052/655-hemi-4-84-bore-space-engine.html

The 99 Hemi isn't a wedge head either as specified in the OP, never mind the intake. I don't think the Predator head would be considered a wedge head either would it?

"Happy Dyno"......... because the scales and MPH dont lie!


FWIW, have done a predator build with a single carb. mid 13:1 compression and cam was nitrous orientated with factory seized cam core!!!!!! made 1138 with lots of room for improvment. 1/8 went 122mph @ over 3800lbs and over 5000ft of air.

As far as happy scales and engine and chassis dyno, if they are NOT calibrated correctly they are not giving you correct information , been there and had that done to me several times
I've seen many engine dyno rooms have test room have positive air pressure inside of them due to the inlet fan for outside air flow more CFM than the exhaust fans did resulting in positive pressure in the dyno cell Talk about phony results due to the positive inside pressure, it is just like adding 1 to 3 Lb. boost to the motors

There are alot of single cell happy dyno's out there for sure. As mentioned the track will tell for sure. All 42 of our dyno rooms are SAE calibrated and certified for all of our OEM and prototype development we do, so I know when we dyno engines are numbers are true.

Has to be a Carb No injection

Here is the Rules

You are allowed a aluminum block,
But I want to stay with Iron. Just the time I build a aluminum block they probably will change the rule to iron

No weight rule or minimum?

Don't know if I fully understand this, but if factory BS is at play, no better option than a big Ford. A thor headed ford, would dominate any manufacturer. Chevy and mope would be way behind if there is something other than just anything goes.

For a mope, I still haven't seen anything better than a good set of predators. Better than any hemi NA that I've seen so far.

I've been playing with a pair of mechanical injected blown hemis in two cars, and have let my predator motors languish. I'm building a 4.9 bs noonan and having the second frame rail added to my stratus to deal with it. My plan is to take the 660 nitrous predator in it now, and make it NA single 4 over the winter using a get'm carb. I'll post progress as it goes.

What is this class you guys are talking about called?

He has a pulling truck.

Look up Undertaker Pulling on You Tube. Appalachian Outlaw or Super Street.
I have a Yellow Dodge. The class has lots of Professional Engines, Oakley, BES, Steve Schmidt

It's tough when you diehard Mopar knowing that this stuff's available to your competition for this kind of price

Yep, that is a good deal. We just paid more than $30K for a 572 Mopar wedge long block and it won't make anything close to 1200 hp. For $30K you can probably get a cast iron 572 Mopar wedge with 572-13 heads that will make 1000 hp. I don't think you can build a 1200 hp Mopar for $30K using all new parts.

Is there one advantage over another to use a wedge or a hemi block with a Predator head?
Is one way or another better or easier with reliability

Hemi pattern heads are a bit better some believe. We have had Slawko do both and didn't see any difference.

Hate to point this out, but the BBC and BBF (FF, 385) are not wedge engines.

If you ever went the billet block route, Hemi blocks would be more readily available.