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Innovative LM-1 vs. FAST...which one to buy?
Posted By: tywebb2
Innovative LM-1 vs. FAST...which one to buy? - 04/06/09 11:29 PM
I have always struggled with tuning my carb and was thinking a wide band air/fuel meter might help me out a bit? I am thinking either the LM-1 or the FAST with (1) sensor. I want to keep the cost down and figure I can weld an extra bung on the other side and swap the sensor if needed. Can anyone recommend one over the other? I read the LM-1 info can be downloaded onto a computer which sounds like a nice feature.
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: Innovative LM-1 vs. FAST...which one to buy? - 04/06/09 11:37 PM
i personally would get the altronics O2 alert, you have provisions to hook up 2 oxygen sensors to it if desired, completely programmable and you also get rpm's and voltage as well as provisions for vacuum sensors.
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: Innovative LM-1 vs. FAST...which one to buy? - 04/06/09 11:40 PM
its by far the best item i have ever bought for my car, it took the guesswork out of tuning and you can tune for max. hp with it.
and tune for all 4 seasons.
Posted By: tywebb2
Re: Innovate LM-1 vs. FAST...which one to buy? - 04/06/09 11:44 PM
Thanks for the info...I'll check it out.
I also noticed Innovate has an LM-2 which looks a little newer. Anyone using it?
I don't have a cig lighter in the Cuda. Would I have to add one or could I hard wire it into a switched hot lead?
Posted By: Triple Threat
Re: Innovate LM-1 vs. FAST...which one to buy? - 04/07/09 12:14 AM
You should also look into the LC-1 same thing as the LM-1 but its a gauge so it cab be mounted. We own an LM1 and it is bulky and kind of a hassle at times.
Posted By: tywebb2
Re: Innovate LM-1 vs. FAST...which one to buy? - 04/07/09 12:18 AM
I just talked to an Innovate distributor out in CA. He is an ex-employee and seemed very knowledgeable. The LM-2 sounds like it can do everything I want and more. He also commented that it is less bulky than the LM-1, plug connections are better, data can be saved to an SD card... Sounded pretty nice to me.
Posted By: tywebb2
Re: Innovate LM-1 vs. FAST...which one to buy? - 04/07/09 02:49 AM
On second thought. I have been reading the LM-2 forun on Innovate's website and the reviews are less than positive. Now I think I will go with either the LM-1 or the LC-1. I just want something that works without a bunch of bells and whistles I don't really need. Stay tuned (no pun intended).
Posted By: aarcuda
Re: Innovate LM-1 vs. FAST...which one to buy? - 04/07/09 03:13 AM
Quote:
On second thought. I have been reading the LM-2 forun on Innovate's website and the reviews are less than positive. Now I think I will go with either the LM-1 or the LC-1. I just want something that works without a bunch of bells and whistles I don't really need. Stay tuned (no pun intended).
people with the LM2 are less than pleased. too many bugs.
I really like the idea of GTech Pro EGS its a tach with an o2 sensor built in (for additional cost) http://www.gtechpro.com/egs.html
Posted By: dthemi
Re: Innovate LM-1 vs. FAST...which one to buy? - 04/07/09 03:29 AM
I use the dual FAST, but it's big clunky feeling and looking. It does record so maybe if it were mounted it would be better. I saw a neat tach at SEMA though, that had it built in with playack for several sensors. i can't remember the name but it was something like Qtach, or something. I'll look and see if i can find it. It would graph A/F against rpm, and that would be most helpful. My FAST unit won't sync with my MSD 10 box so I can't follow it by RPM, so I count down from the time slip.
Posted By: aarcuda
Re: Innovate LM-1 vs. FAST...which one to buy? - 04/07/09 03:47 AM
Quote:
I use the dual FAST, but it's big clunky feeling and looking. It does record so maybe if it were mounted it would be better. I saw a neat tach at SEMA though, that had it built in with playack for several sensors. i can't remember the name but it was something like Qtach, or something. I'll look and see if i can find it. It would graph A/F against rpm, and that would be most helpful. My FAST unit won't sync with my MSD 10 box so I can't follow it by RPM, so I count down from the time slip.
was it the GTech Pro EGS http://www.gtechpro.com/egs.html
the only thing i dont like about it is that you cant download the info to a computer
Posted By: cudaman1967
Re: Innovate LM-1 vs. FAST...which one to buy? - 04/07/09 03:49 AM
Use
www.zeitronix.com. Talk to Marc. They were voted number one at SEMA show in 2008. Tell Marc that Mike Mills told you to call he will offer you a deal you cant turn down. Plus your right down the street so we can compare data and I can help you with it if needed
Posted By: dthemi
Re: Innovate LM-1 vs. FAST...which one to buy? - 04/07/09 03:55 AM
Quote:
Quote:
I use the dual FAST, but it's big clunky feeling and looking. It does record so maybe if it were mounted it would be better. I saw a neat tach at SEMA though, that had it built in with playack for several sensors. i can't remember the name but it was something like Qtach, or something. I'll look and see if i can find it. It would graph A/F against rpm, and that would be most helpful. My FAST unit won't sync with my MSD 10 box so I can't follow it by RPM, so I count down from the time slip.
was it the GTech Pro EGS http://www.gtechpro.com/egs.html
the only thing i dont like about it is that you cant download the info to a computer
Yeah that's the one,, check out all the functions. I like gadgets, and I only played with it at SEMA, so it may be great, or junk I don't know. It did feel like quality, but who knows.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAWFIZmUekM
Posted By: Cab_Burge
Re: Innovate LM-1 vs. FAST...which one to buy? - 04/07/09 04:04 AM
I have a FAST and a LM1 with the RPM module, I have had troubles with both systems. I did upgrade the LM1 to the LC1 to get dual readings off of both sides of the motor on the same session, I haven't installed that portion yet, shame on me
I like the LM1 better, it is way easier to read once you download the session onto a laptop
Posted By: JimG
Re: Innovate LM-1 vs. FAST...which one to buy? - 04/07/09 01:11 PM
I own an LM-1 and an LC-1 and have nothing but high praise for each.
I agree with the previous posters who point out apparent problems with LM-2s. The problems will eventually get fixed or be proven not to exist, but in the meantime I'm not crazy about being a guinea pig!
Jim
Posted By: aarcuda
Re: Innovate LM-1 vs. FAST...which one to buy? - 04/07/09 01:20 PM
Quote:
I have a FAST and a LM1 with the RPM module, I have had troubles with both systems. I did upgrade the LM1 to the LC1 to get dual readings off of both sides of the motor on the same session, I haven't installed that portion yet, shame on me I like the LM1 better, it is way easier to read once you download the session onto a laptop
ive had some problems with the LM-1. This was an older unit purchased off Ebay and im borrowing it. It doesnt read RPMs correctly with rpm converter. its connected to the tach output on my mallory hyfire box with my tach and the tach reads right.
Lst weekend at the track, i was logging data during the runs and a few times it disconnected itself in the middle of the run so i got nothing i could use.
My idle mixture is also VERY noisy looking with big dramatic changes in afr. that may be a grounding problem. I want to hard wire the power and ground into the fuese box instead of using the cig lighter (might work better)
Posted By: Cab_Burge
Re: Innovate LM-1 vs. FAST...which one to buy? - 04/07/09 03:40 PM
Posted By: tywebb2
Re: Innovate LM-1 vs. FAST...which one to buy? - 04/07/09 10:21 PM
Now I am really confused. The GTechPro tach set-up looks really nice but it is expensive when you figure the cost of the gauge and the adder for the o2 sensor. Plus it don't have the ability to download info to a laptop.
I called Zeitronix and they were very nice but their unit doesn't store and offer the ability to download onto a laptop later either. Is this something I really need?
I called Innovate to ask about the XD-16 Kit and while they did answer my questions, they seemed to have a chip on their shoulder.
Posted By: aarcuda
Re: Innovate LM-1 vs. FAST...which one to buy? - 04/08/09 01:25 AM
reason i havent pulled the trigger on the Gtech is because you cant download it. Its really nice looking at the plots on the screen and scrolling across it and reading values.
But i hate the fact the LM 1 is so big and clugie with cords hanging off it and so forth.
im still on the fence which one to buy. im going to have to give the lm1 back soon and i need something good to replace it.
i havent checked out the FAST system yet...
Posted By: cudaman1967
Re: Innovate LM-1 vs. FAST...which one to buy? - 04/08/09 01:42 AM
You can record up to 9 hrs of data. Not sure what Marc may have been refering too. But the ZT-2 box is a datalogger and they have the guage for real time or the LCD (which I got with it) that you can recall highest reading and look at while you are driving.
Its awesome! The problem with the LM1 which is a very good box has always been ground issues and the rpm being accurate. Not to mention it costs a boat load to get all the sensors you may want.
I am recording fuel pressure, Wideband O2, boost, rpm, intake temp (used for water/meth spray)
I can email you the directions if you want. Shows you how to datalog
Posted By: tywebb2
Re: Innovate LM-1 vs. FAST...which one to buy? - 04/08/09 02:55 AM
Cudaman1967...I sent you a p/m earlier tonight...check it out.
If you can p/m or email me those directions that would be great. Do you actually have to have a laptop in the car and connected to the ZT2 to data log or can you make your pass and connect the laptop once you get back in the pits between rounds?
After researching multiple forums and sites tonight I think I am leaning toward the Zeitronix piece.
Posted By: aarcuda
Re: Innovate LM-1 vs. FAST...which one to buy? - 04/08/09 11:52 AM
Quote:
Cudaman1967...I sent you a p/m earlier tonight...check it out.
If you can p/m or email me those directions that would be great. Do you actually have to have a laptop in the car and connected to the ZT2 to data log or can you make your pass and connect the laptop once you get back in the pits between rounds?
After researching multiple forums and sites tonight I think I am leaning toward the Zeitronix piece.
im interested in this too
Posted By: cudaman1967
Re: Innovate LM-1 vs. FAST...which one to buy? - 04/08/09 02:43 PM
aarcuda,
Mention Mike Mills and Marc will take care of you
Posted By: tywebb2
Re: Innovate LM-1 vs. FAST...which one to buy? - 04/08/09 05:23 PM
Mike,
What deal did you get? I spoke with Marc and mentioned your name and he quoted me list price?
Thanks,
Warren
Posted By: cudaman1967
Re: Innovate LM-1 vs. FAST...which one to buy? - 04/09/09 12:50 AM
They are one of my sponsors. So my price will be different than yours. PM me the price they gave you and I can tell you what they gave you off the package...
Posted By: tywebb2
Re: Innovate LM-1 vs. FAST...which one to buy? - 04/09/09 11:19 PM
Well I bit the bullet and ordered the Zeitronix Zt2 with the Zr2 multi gauge today. Got it from a distributor in Minnesota. They beat the price I got direct from Zeitronix and had it in stock to ship today so I should have it next week. I can't wait to get the thing installed and start tuning.
So I guess the answer to my question of LM-1 or FAST is actually Zeitronix. Thanks for the direction on this one Cudaman1967.
Posted By: Quicksilver440
Re: Innovate LM-1 vs. FAST...which one to buy? - 04/10/09 02:56 AM
Quote:
Well I bit the bullet and ordered the Zeitronix Zt2 with the Zr2 multi gauge today. Got it from a distributor in Minnesota. They beat the price I got direct from Zeitronix and had it in stock to ship today so I should have it next week. I can't wait to get the thing installed and start tuning.
So I guess the answer to my question of LM-1 or FAST is actually Zeitronix. Thanks for the direction on this one Cudaman1967.
What distributor did you get it from? I think I really want one of these... 
....Ahh...never mind...I found the dealer.
Posted By: tywebb2
Re: Innovate LM-1 vs. FAST...which one to buy? - 04/10/09 04:33 PM
I went with Modern Auto Performance (www.maperformance.com). They had it in stock and it shipped same day.
Posted By: juicedcuda
Re: Innovate LM-1 vs. FAST...which one to buy? - 04/11/09 01:58 AM
I prefer the PLX wideband. It is a guage and they don't burn up nearly as bad as the innovates do. Racegas seems to take its toll on the innovates.
Posted By: Cab_Burge
Re: Innovate LM-1 vs. FAST...which one to buy? - 04/11/09 06:02 AM
The wide ban O2 sensors are not intended to be ran with leaded fuel, the lead will get to all of them in time no matter which brand the box or the sensor is. That is what I have been told by several dyno operators the use them(wide ban O2 sensors) on there dyno
Posted By: Defbob
Re: Innovative LM-1 vs. FAST...which one to buy? - 04/11/09 12:40 PM
why not get a lean/rich gauge and single wire O2 sensor? Tom used one to setup his blower motor and I used one to tune my Dominator.
gauge O2 sensor
Posted By: 440Jim
Re: Innovate LM-1 vs. FAST...which one to buy? - 04/11/09 01:07 PM
Quote:
You can record up to 9 hrs of data. Not sure what Marc may have been refering too. But the ZT-2 box is a datalogger
So you don't need a laptop computer in the car to record? Just to download the file?
I have been using my LM-1 for years, and I have had no problems. From the forums, they do need some attention to wiring hook-up. I have a hardwire with inline fuse rather than using the cig socket. A proper ground too.
Everyone should realize that AFR will vary with rpm, so a recording of that is the best way to tune. So I like to study the graph after a run. It would be nice to have a realtime gauge for driving around and rough tuning too. For street tuning, a throttle position sensor would be helpful.
Posted By: aarcuda
Re: Innovate LM-1 vs. FAST...which one to buy? - 04/11/09 02:36 PM
Quote:
Quote:
You can record up to 9 hrs of data. Not sure what Marc may have been refering too. But the ZT-2 box is a datalogger
So you don't need a laptop computer in the car to record? Just to download the file?
I have been using my LM-1 for years, and I have had no problems. From the forums, they do need some attention to wiring hook-up. I have a hardwire with inline fuse rather than using the cig socket. A proper ground too.
Everyone should realize that AFR will vary with rpm, so a recording of that is the best way to tune. So I like to study the graph after a run. It would be nice to have a realtime gauge for driving around and rough tuning too. For street tuning, a throttle position sensor would be helpful.
what size fuse did you use? I just hard wired my lm1 in after finding out how loose my cigaratte socket was (the ground was intermittant and was messing with the voltage to the unit).
right now, i am straight to the accessory feed on the fuse block but i want to put a fuse in there for protection.
Posted By: Quicksilver440
Re: Innovative LM-1 vs. FAST...which one to buy? - 04/11/09 02:52 PM
Quote:
why not get a lean/rich gauge and single wire O2 sensor? Tom used one to setup his blower motor and I used one to tune my Dominator.
They work ok for simple tuning at idle and such...but they have limitations. Slower to react....and you cannot datalog and graph along with RPM throught the run to evaluate your complete fuel curve. Even a wideband isn't all that useful in my opinion without the RPM info to coinside with it.
All my wideband use has been on my brothers chassis dyno though...but now that he's renting dyno time again...I would like my own wideband setup.
Posted By: 11secdart
Re: Innovative LM-1 vs. FAST...which one to buy? - 04/11/09 03:06 PM
I have the FAST system, You don`t need a laptop to replay the run and get readings.
Posted By: tywebb2
Re: Innovative LM-1 vs. FAST...which one to buy? - 04/12/09 01:33 AM
Zeitronix told me you need to have a laptop hooked up to the Zt2 if you want to datalog. There is also some extra software you can buy to load onto a pda (i.e. Palm III, etc.) and you can use that instead. I am probably going to pick up an older pda cheap and use that to log my runs at the track.