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Question for Amsoil racing oil users

Posted By: BradH

Question for Amsoil racing oil users - 03/31/09 02:34 PM

The closest auto parts store to my house stocks most of the Amsoil line and I'm considering using their Series 2000 in my Challenger. Do you folks who run Amsoil in your race or street/strip cars use an oil analysis program to determine your change intervals? Since the stuff has a high TBN level (12), it "should" be able to last quite a while and not need to be changed as frequently as oils w/ lower TBN ratings. And, at $10 a quart, I'd hope it wouldn't need to be drained as frequently, either. Any other comments about the product are appreciated, too.
Posted By: dOoC

Re: Question for Amsoil racing oil users - 03/31/09 06:54 PM

Quote:




Since the stuff has a high TBN level (12), it "should" be able to last quite a while and not need to be changed as frequently as oils w/ lower TBN ratings.

And, at $10 a quart, I'd hope it wouldn't need to be drained as frequently, either.






Good ole Amsoil .... ...and their marketing BS ...

WHERE do they suggest that the combustion by-products GO ... that are in their oil vs staying in the other brands ?

10$ a quart ? .... that is due to their multi-level-sales and marketing program that has so many hands-in-the-pie.
Posted By: BradH

Re: Question for Amsoil racing oil users - 03/31/09 08:34 PM

So far...
Replies = 1
Value Added = 0
Posted By: mac56

Re: Question for Amsoil racing oil users - 03/31/09 09:52 PM

Hey Brad I hope you feel this is on topic because I was going to start an oil thread asking about synthetic oils. I have been reading about different synthetic oils with different base stocks Amsoil is supposed to be POA base stock oil with ester base stock being the best and POA being second best but much cheaper. My transmission builder uses amsoil in his 1500 hp nitrous engine on alcohol and is very happy with it. Maybe some of the chemists will chime in.
Posted By: 540dust

Re: Question for Amsoil racing oil users - 03/31/09 11:32 PM

I tried it, runs suggested it was probably .02 quicker in the quarter. That was going from 20W-50 Valvoline to Amsoil 10W-30 back in the mid 90's. It is also a good test on how well your rear main is sealed up. Bearings looked pretty much the same. I believe synthetics are better oils but IMO not worth the hi cost. I went back to the 20W-50 Valvoline and am still running it. I never used anything other than my judgement to determine change intervals. I try to change every 50 - 60 passes. This is my
Posted By: dOoC

Re: Question for Amsoil racing oil users - 03/31/09 11:39 PM

Quote:

So far...
Replies = 1
Value Added = 0




Oh really now ? ..... and my responses were directly ON TOPIC....to exactly what you said.

PLUS ... Wasn't it YOU that stated this ?

""""""" Any other comments about the product are appreciated, too. """"""
Posted By: Chris2581

Re: Question for Amsoil racing oil users - 04/01/09 01:06 AM

You should contact member "Locomotion",Myron Piatek.He swears by Amsoil and has been using it for many years.There was also a thread about synthetics and a post was made about the price being cheaper that $10 a quart.
Posted By: lowell66dart

Re: Question for Amsoil racing oil users - 04/01/09 01:10 AM

I've been using Amsoil for 20 + years in everything I own. I can also tell you how to get it for less than $10, just pm me. There are lots of great oils out there.
Posted By: BradH

Re: Question for Amsoil racing oil users - 04/01/09 02:52 PM

Quote:

Quote:

So far...
Replies = 1
Value Added = 0




Oh really now ? ..... and my responses were directly ON TOPIC....to exactly what you said.

PLUS ... Wasn't it YOU that stated this ?

""""""" Any other comments about the product are appreciated, too. """"""



Next time I'll be sure to specify VALUE-ADDING comments, rather than ANY.
Posted By: hemi471

Re: Question for Amsoil racing oil users - 04/01/09 04:23 PM

What Amsoil says is that the oil is good for 25000 miles. You change to their oil and filter, and when you reach 12500 miles you replace the filter and add a quart of oil, then drive another 12500 and your ready for a complete oil change. If you are using the by-pass filter along with a full-flow filter and have a oil sample checked in the lab you still change the filters and add oil put you dont change the oil untill the sample does not pass.
Posted By: BradH

Re: Question for Amsoil racing oil users - 04/01/09 05:23 PM

Quote:

What Amsoil says is that the oil is good for 25000 miles...



That's for passenger cars only. For race applications, they tell you something along the lines of "follow your engine builder's recommendations" or to monitor the oil w/ a scheduled analysis program.
Posted By: Dap

Re: Question for Amsoil racing oil users - 04/01/09 06:55 PM

I use Amsoil also and have had the oil analysis done last year. Right after I sent in the oil sample I found out I had a thrust bearing issue. So I was expecting bad news from the sample. I got an e-mail and a phone call from the lab about the results On the report was a note that the use of race fuel will raise the level of lead in the sample. Many large fleets I have inspected at have oil analysis done on all vehicles as part of there maintenance. It is a good look into what is going on inside the engine. Many issues have been found before they knew a problem existed with a piece of equipment.
Posted By: maximum entropy

Re: Question for Amsoil racing oil users - 04/01/09 08:38 PM

Quote:


Value Added = 0


Posted By: dOoC

Re: Question for Amsoil racing oil users - 04/02/09 03:36 AM

Quote:

Quote:


Value Added = 0










Amsoil drones don't want to hear the TRUTH !
Posted By: CompSyn

Re: Question for Amsoil racing oil users - 04/02/09 06:06 AM

There are those who are afraid of it. And there are those who knock it. Then there are those who actually do it.

Extended Oil Drain technology has existed since 1972.

The links below show how Used Oil Analysis (UOA) can support a lube manufactures claims. Independent person... Independent lab...

0W-30, 20,000-mile UOA report, 2004 Crown Victoria - link

0W-20, 28,000-mile UOA report, 2003 Sable - link

0W-30, 30,726-mile UOA report, 2003 Honda S2000 - link

Get the Series 2000 HDD, do a UOA when it comes time and don’t look back.

CompSyn

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Posted By: CompSyn

Re: Question for Amsoil racing oil users - 04/02/09 06:16 AM

Quote:

Hey Brad I hope you feel this is on topic because I was going to start an oil thread asking about synthetic oils. I have been reading about different synthetic oils with different base stocks Amsoil is supposed to be POA base stock oil with ester base stock being the best and POA being second best but much cheaper. My transmission builder uses amsoil in his 1500 hp nitrous engine on alcohol and is very happy with it. Maybe some of the chemists will chime in.




Amsoil has many formulations that are PAO/Ester based - hence the high price tag. They also have Group III formulations which are more in line with the cost of Valvoline SynPower, Pennzoil Platinum and Mobil 1 varieties.

It all depends on how exotic one wants to go.

CompSyn

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Posted By: CompSyn

Re: Question for Amsoil racing oil users - 04/02/09 06:30 AM

Quote:

You should contact member "Locomotion",Myron Piatek.He swears by Amsoil and has been using it for many years.There was also a thread about synthetics and a post was made about the price being cheaper that $10 a quart.




Amsoil Preferred Customer Discount - link

There’s no need for anyone to have to pay retail...

CompSyn

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Posted By: dOoC

Re: Question for Amsoil racing oil users - 04/02/09 06:40 AM

Hey CompSyn .... you speak well of the product ... just like anyone who has their hands in-the-profit pie of Amsoil sales.

How about a person like myself ....... that is just SKEPTICAL of the whole Amsoil "deal" ?

SKEPTICAL .... of just WHERE do all the combustion by-products go during the 25,000 miles that this oil is being used. Does this oil have some way to "magically" make these by-products disappear?

SKEPTICAL ..... that these sales people are just not up-front with everyone on WHY these Amsoil products are so expensive. SIMPLY .. because it is a multi-level-marketing program that it HAS to be that way ... because so many people in this pyramind have to make a profit.

Doublely SKEPTICAL .... since lots of these Amsoil advertising claims CLAIM that their product is so much better than the competition. Yet no independent proof is ever supplied.

And NO .... I am not talking about the infomercial like Prolong ....when they had Al Unser driving a Viper around a race-track with NO OIL in the motor at all. And then after an hour or so ... saying the motor was fine.

Well .... enough from me for now ... I have been up since 6am yesterday ....time to hit-the-hay .... but I will be-back.
Posted By: BradH

Re: Question for Amsoil racing oil users - 04/02/09 01:34 PM

Quote:

... but I will be-back.



No problem. But since I'm not an Amsoil "drone" and am simply trying to get answers to my questions, please stop posting on this thread.

If you have a need to start an Amsoil-specific debate, you should start your own thread. I'd be more than interested in reading it to see what comes of it.
Posted By: CompSyn

Re: Question for Amsoil racing oil users - 04/02/09 05:27 PM

Quote:

Hey CompSyn .... you speak well of the product ... just like anyone who has their hands in-the-profit pie of Amsoil sales.

How about a person like myself ....... that is just SKEPTICAL of the whole Amsoil "deal" ?

SKEPTICAL .... of just WHERE do all the combustion by-products go during the 25,000 miles that this oil is being used. Does this oil have some way to "magically" make these by-products disappear?

SKEPTICAL ..... that these sales people are just not up-front with everyone on WHY these Amsoil products are so expensive. SIMPLY .. because it is a multi-level-marketing program that it HAS to be that way ... because so many people in this pyramind have to make a profit.

Doublely SKEPTICAL .... since lots of these Amsoil advertising claims CLAIM that their product is so much better than the competition. Yet no independent proof is ever supplied.

And NO .... I am not talking about the infomercial like Prolong ....when they had Al Unser driving a Viper around a race-track with NO OIL in the motor at all. And then after an hour or so ... saying the motor was fine.

Well .... enough from me for now ... I have been up since 6am yesterday ....time to hit-the-hay .... but I will be-back.




You’re skeptical. That’s perfectly understandable. Unconventional claims can be intimidating. If anyone would like data to help address their reservations about this topic, feel free to ask.

For now, the question of combustion by-products keeps coming up. Below, a few related motor oil chemical component definitions.


Dispersant: A dispersing agent, which holds a very finely divided substance in a dispersed state in the carrier fluid. Such as sludge or a wear particles in a motor oil.


Detergency: The ability of an oil to keep working surfaces of equipment clean (i.e. free from contaminants) by holding oil-insoluble material in suspension thus preventing deposition where it would be harmful.


Total Base Number (TBN): The quantity of acid, expressed in terms of the number of milligrams that is required to neutralize all basic constituents present in one-gram sample. Otherwise known as ASTM Method D-644, D-974, or D-2896.


The above three chemical compounds are just a few of the items found in all modern day motor oils. These compounds of various grades and quantities are formulated into the finished product by formulators in order to meet current API – ILSAC specifications. Further, motor oil formulators have the ability to formulate their products with more or less of these compounds giving their products designability and proprietary characteristics.

For example compare the differences of TBN content in the popular motor oils below.


ClickHERE for a larger image.

Application: When a Used Oil Analysis UOA report comes back, TBN is often used to determine how long a motor oil can be used in the specific application it is utilized in. Note: A TBN value of one(1) on a UOA report is considered to be low.

This is just some of the story of how motor oils can be designed with extended life in mind.

CompSyn
Posted By: CompSyn

Re: Question for Amsoil racing oil users - 04/02/09 05:56 PM

Quote:

What Amsoil says is that the oil is good for 25000 miles. You change to their oil and filter, and when you reach 12500 miles you replace the filter and add a quart of oil, then drive another 12500 and your ready for a complete oil change. If you are using the by-pass filter along with a full-flow filter and have a oil sample checked in the lab you still change the filters and add oil put you dont change the oil untill the sample does not pass.




The oil filters you are referring to is outdated filtration technology.

Consider the sequence of events below:

1st) Donaldson Company Selected to Develop Filtration System for U.S. Army Abrams-Crusader Common Engine Program - Article link

2nd) Go Twice the Distance With Donaldson Endurance™ Air Filters - pdf link

3rd) AMSOIL® Introduces Donaldson Endurance™ Air and Oil Filters with Nanofiber Technology - Press Release link

4th) AMSOIL Ea Oil Filters (EaO) - Data link

5th) AMSOIL Ea Air Filters (EaA) - Data link

CompSyn
Posted By: hemi471

Re: Question for Amsoil racing oil users - 04/02/09 07:53 PM

Yes you are right, the new EaO filters are good for 25000. I am still using the the old SDF filters till I run out Thanks!
Posted By: rt66jim

Re: Question for Amsoil racing oil users - 04/02/09 08:19 PM

Well I worked in a Freightliner dealership back in 93/94. When the N14 cummins engine came out in the trucks. Cummins sent out a bulletin on extended oil changes. It provided that those companies who used oil analysis could go to 30,000 miles intervals with Mobil 1. Jim
Posted By: Runner

Re: Question for Amsoil racing oil users - 04/02/09 09:06 PM

the company i work for has 17000 trucks and we have been running non synthetic oil at 30000k oil change intervals for at least 15 years. no warrenty issues with cummins, volvo, or detroit.
Posted By: CompSyn

Re: Question for Amsoil racing oil users - 04/02/09 09:27 PM

Quote:

Well I worked in a Freightliner dealership back in 93/94. When the N14 cummins engine came out in the trucks. Cummins sent out a bulletin on extended oil changes. It provided that those companies who used oil analysis could go to 30,000 miles intervals with Mobil 1. Jim




Sure! The Tri-Synthetic formula of 1990s. Mobil 1s current SuperSyn formula that was introduced in 2002 has been under a lot fire lately for higher levels of Iron found in UOA reports. See also this Iron in M1 UOA’s? - link

And then there are these links below:

Valvoline letter to Mobil 1 – link

Valvoline charges Mobil 1 does not meet current API specs. – link

Sequence IVA Cam Lobe Wear Test – Mobil 1 fails – link

CompSyn
Posted By: CompSyn

Re: Question for Amsoil racing oil users - 04/02/09 09:35 PM

Quote:

the company i work for has 17000 trucks and we have been running non synthetic oil at 30000k oil change intervals for at least 15 years. no warrenty issues with cummins, volvo, or detroit.




Do those trucks come with by-pass oil filters on them?

Well, that is impressive - 30,000-miles on conventional oil. So how does 409,000-miles hit ya?

409,000-mile Mack E7-400 engine teardown – link

Imagine the tens of thousands your company could save with that…

CompSyn
Posted By: Runner

Re: Question for Amsoil racing oil users - 04/03/09 12:41 AM

Anthony, yes bypass filters. we were looking at going to a synthetic blend and upping our oil change to somewhere around 60k as i remember but for what ever reason it didnt happen.

i really have no opinion one way or the other on oils. i run the oil i run because thats what the guy that i bought my cam from recomended. and im gun shy after i lost the cam in my 383 that had been in the car for 10 years.


Brad sorry for getting off track.
Posted By: CompSyn

Re: Question for Amsoil racing oil users - 04/03/09 01:01 AM

Quote:

Anthony, yes bypass filters. we were looking at going to a synthetic blend and upping our oil change to somewhere around 60k as i remember but for what ever reason it didnt happen.

i really have no opinion one way or the other on oils. i run the oil i run because thats what the guy that i bought my cam from recomended. and im gun shy after i lost the cam in my 383 that had been in the car for 10 years.


Brad sorry for getting off track.




Mike, I'd be curious to learn more about your cam failure. I'll P.M. you about that though.

I'll also post this Technical Service Bulletin pdf with regards to Flat Tappet and Camshaft Lobe Lubrication - click HERE

CompSyn

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