3600-3700 lbs car to run 9.50's?

Posted By: Bob_Coomer

3600-3700 lbs car to run 9.50's? - 03/25/09 07:57 PM

What does it take to run 9.50-9.60's range with a car in the 3600-3700 lbs? Couple of buddies was wondering what E/T expectations I have for the car. Surly this Hemi will squeeze out 750HP.
-572 inch
-12.5:1 compression
-MP Cross Ram
-CNC ported Hemi heads flow 458CFM+
-Solid flat tappet with .700 lift and 280+ dur @50

Loose converter, 4.88 Dana gears, leaf springs, and cal tracks. 14x32 slicks.

What a ya think?

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: 3600-3700 lbs car to run 9.50's? - 03/25/09 08:08 PM

About 850 to get 9.50

Posted By: Bob_Coomer

Re: 3600-3700 lbs car to run 9.50's? - 03/25/09 08:27 PM

Quote:

About 850 to get 9.50

Thanks
Mr-P
I just don't think this engine will make 850, it might make on the high side of 750+ But, I have little Hemi experience. I know what it takes to make 850 and this one doesn't have it....
If it had a solid roller, and sheet metal intake, like off a SS car. I know it would make 50-75+HP over the configuration I will be running at first..
But I have been known to get serious with engines in the past. Never bothered me to take one apart for no real apparent reason.

Posted By: an8sec70cuda

Re: 3600-3700 lbs car to run 9.50's? - 03/25/09 08:47 PM

You should easily run 9.50s w/ that combo.

CHIP

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: 3600-3700 lbs car to run 9.50's? - 03/25/09 08:59 PM

Quote:

Quote:

About 850 to get 9.50

Thanks
Mr-P
I just don't think this engine will make 850, it might make on the high side of 750+ But, I have little Hemi experience. I know what it takes to make 850 and this one doesn't have it....
If it had a solid roller, and sheet metal intake, like off a SS car. I know it would make 50-75+HP over the configuration I will be running at first..
But I have been known to get serious with engines in the past. Never bothered me to take one apart for no real apparent reason.

MY LAST HEMI BUILD WAS VERY CLOSE TO THAT AND YOUR HEADS FLOWED WAY MORE THAN MINE.581 CI 11.8 compression MP aluminum heads flowed 378 cfm with a .750 roller cam made 812 hp with mp hemi crossram. the head porting was horrible.
i switched out the heads for the indy hemi heads and will find out shortly what this new combo should make.
i think your heads will help you alot and you will be surprised on your power.
going 9.50's i think you will be just shy of that.

Posted By: an8sec70cuda

Re: 3600-3700 lbs car to run 9.50's? - 03/25/09 09:13 PM

Mine is 11:1 compression for pump gas, heads flow 430 cfm on the intake, cam is a roller but with similar duration (mild grind for street durability), and a single dominator on the Barton cast manifold. Performance in my sig. CHIP

Posted By: mbogina

Re: 3600-3700 lbs car to run 9.50's? - 03/25/09 11:30 PM

The last NSS 572 I built was 12 to 1 comp., solid roller, MP crossram, 110M alum heads that flow 400, made 925HP, 740 TQ

Posted By: Bubba

Re: 3600-3700 lbs car to run 9.50's? - 03/26/09 12:50 AM

512CI 13.9 to 1. Pump Gas............pumped it right out of a 5 gallon jug.
T-400 Trans, Dana 60, 10.5" Tires on Leaf Springs
1.36 60' --- 9.55 @ 142 mph 3640#

Posted By: 572charger

Re: 3600-3700 lbs car to run 9.50's? - 03/26/09 12:15 PM

my 11.7 to one 606 cube hemi stage v heads flow 449 at 700 lift comp cams 282/290 720/690 lift single carb raybarton intake prosystems carb 1220 cfm in my 3885 lb car has gone 9.60 at 141.75 with a 31 inch et street caltracks 1.39 60ft on pumpgas with full exhaust !! only has a 4.30 gear ! i race it like i drive it !!! with more carb i think it will go 9.40s !! we will see soon !!

Posted By: Mr.Yuck

Re: 3600-3700 lbs car to run 9.50's? - 03/26/09 12:21 PM

I'd think a big single Dominator carb might work better. I think you can mke the ppower but keeping everything together at launch w/ a car that heavy might be a problem. I'd spend some time and money in your drive line parts.

Posted By: Bubba

Re: 3600-3700 lbs car to run 9.50's? - 03/26/09 12:33 PM

WOW, You guys got lotsa Cubes and killer head flow numbers. I'ld figure most of you Hemi guys would be laying down some seriously LOW 9's..

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: 3600-3700 lbs car to run 9.50's? - 03/26/09 01:37 PM

Quote:

What does it take to run 9.50-9.60's range with a car in the 3600-3700 lbs? Couple of buddies was wondering what E/T expectations I have for the car. Surly this Hemi will squeeze out 750HP.
-572 inch
-12.5:1 compression
-MP Cross Ram
-CNC ported Hemi heads flow 458CFM+
-Solid flat tappet with .700 lift and 280+ dur @50

Loose converter, 4.88 Dana gears, leaf springs, and cal tracks. 14x32 slicks.

What a ya think?

I have a simple question for ya:

Why the heck run a flat tappet cam?

You got all that money tied up in a killer Hemi, and you gonna run a $50 camshaft?

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: 3600-3700 lbs car to run 9.50's? - 03/26/09 01:43 PM

With 572ci you should be able to make 850 hp easy,
thats only 1.5 hp per ci..... anyone can make that

Posted By: an8sec70cuda

Re: 3600-3700 lbs car to run 9.50's? - 03/26/09 02:22 PM

Quote:

WOW, You guys got lotsa Cubes and killer head flow numbers. I'ld figure most of you Hemi guys would be laying down some seriously LOW 9's..

Mine as well as 572charger's motors are low compression and are on the tame side as far as camshafts and such to maintain streetability. With a more race oriented setup they would be running much faster. I know I made quite a bit of compromises with my build to keep it street friendly. CHIP

Posted By: Bubba

Re: 3600-3700 lbs car to run 9.50's? - 03/26/09 03:05 PM

I understand Chip, I was just looking at the numbers.
Jim's Charger for example:
Hemi / Wedge
HIS 3885# Mine 3640# = 245#
COMP 11.7 - 13.9 = 2.2p
Cams Pretty darn close.
Heads 449 - 366 = 83CFM
CID 606 - 512 = 94CI
Gears 4.88 - 4.10
suspension Pretty much the same.
Tires ??? - 10.5"
ET 9.60 - 9.55

2 Points of Compression and a Diet and his hemi is in the 8's ?????
or take away 94Cubes and 83 CFM and he could be in the 9.XX's ??????

I'm confused now... What was your setup?

Posted By: an8sec70cuda

Re: 3600-3700 lbs car to run 9.50's? - 03/26/09 03:23 PM

Quote:

I understand Chip, I was just looking at the numbers.
Jim's Charger for example:
Hemi / Wedge
HIS 3885# Mine 3640# = 245#
COMP 11.7 - 13.9 = 2.2p
Cams Pretty darn close.
Heads 449 - 366 = 83CFM
CID 606 - 512 = 94CI
Gears 4.88 - 4.10
suspension Pretty much the same.
Tires ??? - 10.5"
ET 9.60 - 9.55

2 Points of Compression and a Diet and his hemi is in the 8's ?????
or take away 94Cubes and 83 CFM and he could be in the 9.XX's ??????

I'm confused now... What was your setup?

Mine---yours
3800---3640 = 160#
11:1---13.9:1 = 2.9 points
276/284 at fifty, .672"/.651" lift, mild ramps and lift so not a lot of spring pressure...don't know your cam specs
heads 430 cfm---366 cfm = 64 cfm
cid 572---512 = 60 cid
gears 4.10---4.10
suspension...cal-tracs---???
tires...295 radials---???
ET 9.54---9.55

With 3 more points of compression, a more aggressive camshaft, and a race only converter... I'm sure I'd be a lot faster than I am right now. But then I'd be on race fuel and the valvetrain wouldn't take the abuse of constant street driving without costly maintenance.
I don't really care how much faster it'd be with those changes b/c that's never what I intended to do with it. Like it sits I can drive it to the track, click off mid 9s without changing a thing, and then drive it home. Stop and fill up w/ pump 93 on the way back. CHIP

Posted By: Bubba

Re: 3600-3700 lbs car to run 9.50's? - 03/26/09 05:46 PM

Got it!

Posted By: Bob_Coomer

Re: 3600-3700 lbs car to run 9.50's? - 03/26/09 09:16 PM

Quote:

Quote:

What does it take to run 9.50-9.60's range with a car in the 3600-3700 lbs? Couple of buddies was wondering what E/T expectations I have for the car. Surly this Hemi will squeeze out 750HP.
-572 inch
-12.5:1 compression
-MP Cross Ram
-CNC ported Hemi heads flow 458CFM+
-Solid flat tappet with .700 lift and 280+ dur @50

Loose converter, 4.88 Dana gears, leaf springs, and cal tracks. 14x32 slicks.

What a ya think?

I have a simple question for ya:

Why the heck run a flat tappet cam? You got all that money tied up in a killer Hemi, and you gonna run a $50 camshaft?

This car will see lots, and lots of street use...
Im not worried about the cams performance...
I wish the cam and lifters were only $50, I would have saved about $350 then. LOL
I also know what happens when you loose a roller lifter, despite what people say...they can and will come apart. Most people keep this from happening, by replacing them ever few seasons.
I really like a solid flat tappet cam, period. They are simple, and dont fly apart on you. With the cam specs I am looking at with this solid flat cam, the spring pressures would be pretty high with the same size roller. I don't waste my money of Hyd roller crap. Two cam choices for me, large solid flat cam, or larger solid roller. Go big or stay home, no in between..

Cam is a Custom Bullet from Ray Barton. Ray has quite a bit of experience with cam testing in Hemi's. He wouldn't even tell me the spec's, until I payed for it LOL Other than "Its a Big One"

cam has .700+ lift, and dur @ 50 is 282.... Hows that for you little roller guys

Lifters are Howards EDM direct lube style.

It will eventually get a roller upgrade BTW, but not until it comes off the street.

Posted By: The Shadow

Re: 3600-3700 lbs car to run 9.50's? - 03/27/09 06:24 PM

This thread is starting to worry me.
It's a good possibility FHO is building me more than I can chew.

Guess I'll have to wait and see.

Posted By: 72chrgrally

Re: 3600-3700 lbs car to run 9.50's? - 03/27/09 06:34 PM

Quote:

This thread is starting to worry me.
It's a good possibility FHO is building me more than I can chew.

Guess I'll have to wait and see.

With a 3/4 race cam, not an issue. Hey Mark John has his 'roid on the dyno here locally today, when I get some hp numbers I'll let you know.
steve

Posted By: 572charger

Re: 3600-3700 lbs car to run 9.50's? - 03/27/09 09:08 PM

yeah like chip says go fill it up at the nearest gas station drive to the track, race all day, be faster than 90% of the cars at the track , then drive it to dinner !

but its made to run on the spray !! no compession no gear no convertor !!!! still runs 9.60s on motor !!!

Posted By: blownzoom440

Re: 3600-3700 lbs car to run 9.50's? - 03/27/09 09:26 PM

Quote:

yeah like chip says go fill it up at the nearest gas station drive to the track, race all day, be faster than 90% of the cars at the track , then drive it to dinner ! but its made to run on the spray !! no compession no gear no convertor !!!! still runs 9.60s on motor !!!

and how much do these engines cost?

dont get me wrong i am not putting down your stuff,OK!

Posted By: Defbob

Re: 3600-3700 lbs car to run 9.50's? - 03/27/09 09:55 PM

mine...... about $25K

but mes gots a wittle .664", 272 @ .050 street roller

Posted By: RAT PATROL

Re: 3600-3700 lbs car to run 9.50's? - 03/27/09 09:55 PM

Well if Al Alguire drove my car it would be in that weight range. OOOOPS did I say that out loud? Okay, add a few hundred pounds carry the 2, add a couple tenths for driver.....(talent) no that's not the word I'm looking for here. I could be in that ballpark somewhat.

Attached picture 5123524-2007RatPatrolbest.jpg

Posted By: blownzoom440

Re: 3600-3700 lbs car to run 9.50's? - 03/27/09 10:00 PM

Quote:

mine...... about $25K

but mes gots a wittle .664", 272 @ .050 street roller

i figured it was in that range.

Posted By: Von

Re: 3600-3700 lbs car to run 9.50's? - 03/27/09 10:19 PM

Quote:

I also know what happens when you loose a roller lifter, despite what people say...they can and will come apart.

. They are simple, and dont fly apart on you. With the cam specs I am looking at with this solid flat cam, the spring pressures would be pretty high with the same size roller.

I had a long discussion with Dwayne about a solid vs. roller on the street. I had talked myself out of a roller and was gonna get another flat tappet. Fine, you dont have to deal with checking the lifters on a regular basis, with a roller. As you mentioned, you will need some serious spring pressure with that flat tappet. A bunch of spring pressure on a cast core, over time (who knows how long) might equal breaking the core.

Posted By: Tig

Re: 3600-3700 lbs car to run 9.50's? - 03/28/09 01:01 PM

FWIW I just found out I've been running 9.70's @ 3850lb on 7 cylinders

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: 3600-3700 lbs car to run 9.50's? - 03/28/09 01:29 PM

Quote:

FWIW I just found out I've been running 9.70's @ 3850lb on 7 cylinders

LOL... over on this side of the pond we try to run 8
cylinders

Posted By: Tig

Re: 3600-3700 lbs car to run 9.50's? - 03/28/09 04:24 PM

Quote:

Quote:

FWIW I just found out I've been running 9.70's @ 3850lb on 7 cylinders

LOL... over on this side of the pond we try to run 8
cylinders

Well I have to give those C***y guys a fair fight

and there I go thinking I was giving them two chances by keeping it heavy and N/A!
When this motor gets fixed they're all just gonna have to jet up their nitrous kits