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TRW 440 piston 2355 - max valve lift?

Posted By: Sixpak

TRW 440 piston 2355 - max valve lift? - 03/17/09 03:08 PM

Wondering how large a cam some have run with these pistons - yea, I know, they're heavy and all that, but wondering what the max lift the factory valve notches will support an MP 312 590 solid or similar cam. Real world experience here, please...and no other opinions on the suitability of the piston...thanks.
Posted By: 500ciDuster

Re: TRW 440 piston 2355 - max valve lift? - 03/17/09 04:08 PM

I would like to know also, years ago some pistons seemed like they had generic placed valve notchs. Even the 340 factory 10-1's seemed generic, I ran an old TRW cam that had a big duration and overlap which would make contact since the notch placement was off a bit.

Mitch
Posted By: Dodgem

Re: TRW 440 piston 2355 - max valve lift? - 03/17/09 07:09 PM

A lot depends on how much you mill the heads and what type. also do you 0 deck the piston or leave them .030 to 0 down. advancing or retarding the cam from manufacturesrs segested intake ceterline also gives more or less room. Edelbrocks seem to end up with less valve clearence than other heads???

That said i ran an ultradyne 263/271 @ .050 .597/.620 lift cam 108 lobe separation advanced from 106 straight up position to 104 with 0 deck and .060 off 906 heads with 2.14/1.81 valves with no problem .038 gasket but it was tight!!!
ended up deepening the valve notches and milling the heads .105 (made closed chambers)
Posted By: deaks

Re: TRW 440 piston 2355 - max valve lift? - 03/17/09 11:11 PM

I have these in my motor and i run a .670 roller .280 at 50 int/exh, with 76 cc rpm's and steel shim gaskets.
Mike
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: TRW 440 piston 2355 - max valve lift? - 03/18/09 01:38 AM

First off, no they are NOT heavy. They are the same as stock designed as a forged replacement drop in.
At 613 lift and 268 @050" the exhaust notch which is not the exact angle as the valve will clip the edge of the valve on a blueprinted engine. The fix is minor and requres laying back the angle of the valve relief to match the valve. Unless it is an aftermarket head engine it has no need of such lift. I dont go above .540 net lift with iron heads even ported ones. Tis a very good and effective set up these L2355F setup 440. I wrote the book on them .(Old Reliable) Power to the mid upper 500s is possible with a good cam choice. Dollar for Dollar a very hard build to beat. I have seen them chew some pretty expensive competition. In fact I have had the distinct pleasure of being the chewer. Don

Attached picture 5100786-yabdabadoatLuskville.jpg
Posted By: blownzoom440

Re: TRW 440 piston 2355 - max valve lift? - 03/18/09 02:01 AM

Quote:

First off, no they are NOT heavy. They are the same as stock designed as a forged replacement drop in.
At 613 lift and 268 @050" the exhaust notch which is not the exact angle as the valve will clip the edge of the valve on a blueprinted engine. The fix is minor and requres laying back the angle of the valve relief to match the valve. Unless it is an aftermarket head engine it has no need of such lift. I dont go above .540 net lift with iron heads even ported ones. Tis a very good and effective set up these L2355F setup 440. I wrote the book on them .(Old Reliable) Power to the mid upper 500s is possible with a good cam choice. Dollar for Dollar a very hard build to beat. I have seen them chew some pretty expensive competition. In fact I have had the distinct pleasure of being the chewer. Don




i guess my heads flowing into .600 are no good than at that lift.
let me add something worthwhile to the post.i did have my pistons cut deeper on the V reliefs .100 for the .590 cam and after running it found cabin buildup in the deep part of the cuts so i can say that laying back the cuts would reduce the buildup in my opinion.
Posted By: CH3NO2

Re: TRW 440 piston 2355 - max valve lift? - 03/18/09 03:18 AM

Hi Don,..
Posted By: mopardamo

Re: TRW 440 piston 2355 - max valve lift? - 03/18/09 03:27 AM

Hello,

"First off, no they are NOT heavy." Pistons the 1000+ gram range are not heavy??? Wow.

Damon
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: TRW 440 piston 2355 - max valve lift? - 03/18/09 11:46 AM

They are what are referred to as forged replacement and are a premium replacement part for rebuilders. These particular ones are direct replacment for 71 six pack engines. By direct replacement we mean can be used without rebalance as they weigh the same as production factory pistons. They feature the standard pin offset as well so I install all mine reversed. They are NHRA legal sub for 71 six pack Stock eliminator motor. BTW
When i built the first OR combo motor it cost $1680.00 carbS to oil pan. Yes I did everything including all machine work and carbs tuning etc but that is still a very imexpensive motor. It ran in my car 9 years of bracket racing. The car weighed 4150 with my nephew driving (200 lbs) and 4256 with me driving (306 lbs). At 4150 it ran 11.49 at 119.11. Even big ol me ran a 11.51 at high 118s mph. I built it in 1990. Motor is still running now in a mud race truck . I have trailered more than once $$$$$$$$$$$$ stroker 451s with all the tricky stuff and have seen it occasinallly run down some engines approaching $20000 in cost. So one can worry for no good reason about the piston wieghts and rod weights and even call it old technology but when it pops the big guns on the trailer and does it virtually mainentance free for 10 to 15 years it is real hard to get too worried about piston weights which are the same as i said as stock. I have also built it with the KB hpyers just for fun for customers but in reality you will NEVER EVER see a broken L2355F piston. They are tougher then tough.
Don

PS HI from beautiful downtown Ameliasburgh
Posted By: Bill MeLater

Re: TRW 440 piston 2355 - max valve lift? - 03/18/09 01:47 PM

I'm running them with this cam, installed @ 105 intake centerline. I have 915's cut .030 with .214/.188's, pistons @ .023 in the hole w/steel shims. The depth was near .100 but the radial on the intakes was tight @ around .050. The notches did seem to be at 15 degrees and I needed to drop the compression and weight a little so I re cut them to 18 degrees with another .050 radial. The decks are almost a 1/2" thick so you can cut at will...

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5101702-IMAGE0027.PDF  (292 downloads)
Posted By: Bill MeLater

Re: TRW 440 piston 2355 - max valve lift? - 03/18/09 01:52 PM

This cam...Didn't load the first time.

Attached File
5101713-IMAGE0027.PDF  (336 downloads)
Posted By: Bill MeLater

Re: TRW 440 piston 2355 - max valve lift? - 03/18/09 02:07 PM

Guess it loaded as a clickable attachment, didn't know you could do that. Anyhow, here's a pic...

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Posted By: ZIPPY

Re: TRW 440 piston 2355 - max valve lift? - 03/18/09 03:22 PM

Nice work! Can't even tell it started out as a 2355!

I had to put super tricky stuff like aluminum heads in my 451 to run 11s. Since I don't have my own personal machine shop like everyone else has, I have to make up for it somehow...
Posted By: DaytonaTurbo

Re: TRW 440 piston 2355 - max valve lift? - 03/18/09 03:31 PM

For you guys who've installed these pistons, how far down in the hole did you find they sit if installed without block decking? .02-.03?
Posted By: JohnRR

Re: TRW 440 piston 2355 - max valve lift? - 03/18/09 08:28 PM

Quote:

For you guys who've installed these pistons, how far down in the hole did you find they sit if installed without block decking? .02-.03?




The math puts them .021 in the hole if everything is at factory blueprint , 6.768 rod , 10.725 deck height .
Posted By: an8sec70cuda

Re: TRW 440 piston 2355 - max valve lift? - 03/18/09 09:02 PM

A $20,000 engine getting outrun by a mid 11 sec car? Was it in a school bus or something? CHIP
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: TRW 440 piston 2355 - max valve lift? - 03/18/09 10:36 PM

67 camaro with Peter Fedun SS record holding motor. videoed too. Their carb cost over $1000 for cryin out loud. But think what you want. It changes nothing. Did you ever try running a 4000Lb plus race car?
L2355Fs should be zero deck but are often .015 to .035 off that due to factory tolerences. Often side to side there is quite a difference. i have though had two that were within .002. Pretty rare though.
Don
Posted By: n_bogie1984

Re: TRW 440 piston 2355 - max valve lift? - 03/18/09 11:15 PM

i dont see why you would have clearance issues, i ran a 440 zero deck with .075 off closed chamber heads with a .528 cam and 1.7 rockers and i cleared with the mp kit headgaskets
Posted By: Bill MeLater

Re: TRW 440 piston 2355 - max valve lift? - 03/19/09 02:15 AM

What heads/valves do you intend? You might be ok depending on cam installed centerline. Like I said, there's pleanty of room to cut 'em if you have to. Gonna have to mock it up to know for sure.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: TRW 440 piston 2355 - max valve lift? - 03/19/09 02:36 AM

If the motor is apart anyway I would flycut a little extra clearance and deck the motor to zero. The .590 comes real close when using even uncut 906's...The .528 is a better cam choice for a 906 headed motor...

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Posted By: JohnRR

Re: TRW 440 piston 2355 - max valve lift? - 03/19/09 12:43 PM

Quote:

67 camaro with Peter Fedun SS record holding motor. videoed too. Their carb cost over $1000 for cryin out loud. But think what you want. It changes nothing. Did you ever try running a 4000Lb plus race car?
L2355Fs should be zero deck but are often .015 to .035 off that due to factory tolerences. Often side to side there is quite a difference. i have though had two that were within .002. Pretty rare though.
Don




Sorry , it's not factory TOLERANCES , if you do the MATH to FACTORY blueprint specs , NOT NHRA , the 2355 is .021 BELOW the deck .
Posted By: an8sec70cuda

Re: TRW 440 piston 2355 - max valve lift? - 03/19/09 01:30 PM

Why it matters, I do not know ...but yes, I have run a 4000 pound plus car, street car actually. I added 200# to my 3800# car just to see how much it slowed it down. It went 9.70 w/ an extra 200# in it. CHIP
Posted By: JohnRR

Re: TRW 440 piston 2355 - max valve lift? - 03/19/09 02:25 PM

Quote:

Why it matters, I do not know ...but yes, I have run a 4000 pound plus car, street car actually. I added 200# to my 3800# car just to see how much it slowed it down. It went 9.70 w/ an extra 200# in it. CHIP




Posted By: RemCharger

Re: TRW 440 piston 2355 - max valve lift? - 03/19/09 05:21 PM

Quote:

Quote:

67 camaro with Peter Fedun SS record holding motor. videoed too. Their carb cost over $1000 for cryin out loud. But think what you want. It changes nothing. Did you ever try running a 4000Lb plus race car?
L2355Fs should be zero deck but are often .015 to .035 off that due to factory tolerences. Often side to side there is quite a difference. i have though had two that were within .002. Pretty rare though.
Don




Sorry , it's not factory TOLERANCES , if you do the MATH to FACTORY blueprint specs , NOT NHRA , the 2355 is .021 BELOW the deck .


Two different lines of thought. One comes from a drawing board and one off the assembly line. In reality if it was line bored, rod shortened, decked, or a few thou out in any direction it will not come out to exactly .021". Thats the reason he said the actual number could be from xx - xx. And you don't want to build it to .021 deck height, so I am not sure why that fact is relevant.
Posted By: 6packattk

Re: TRW 440 piston 2355 - max valve lift? - 03/19/09 09:13 PM

I think you should get to know Don a little better by clicking on link in his reply,he probly has forgot more about mopars than most will learn blowing big cash.I for one would back him up anywhere anytime,check out the lemans charger,it should impress you a little,it impresses me alot. Computer jocks,I have those too heavy pistons in original block,was torn down verbally for ancient technology,well my car is probly worth more with them than your car but that is just me.I like bullet proof and anyone can run nines,even slant sixes or 4 bangers.Sometimes people can poke the bear and not know it.I would love to sit down and get to know Don and have his knowledge rub off on me.Too many people don`t post on here much anymore and from some comments and symbols I can see why.Have a nice day,I like eating camaro`s too.Record holders or not,I am here for input and knowledge and hope to help someone not make the same costly mistakes,even make friends,enemies are easy to make.
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