Stick racing is sooo cool!!!

This is what made stick racing so addictive to me when I was a kid watching these cars at the track

Hope this works https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9kswkSEyOj8

Gus

Hellified Yeah!
Three pedals cars are King.

I removed the 3 pedal and installed an auto pedal setup that came out of Jenny Craigs car.I will never give up my pushbuttons now

They where neat to watch, they where pure hell to maintain
I ran a 1970 Cuda 426 Street Hemi 4 speed car in NHRA stock back in the early to mid 1970s, it was a lot of work and expensive to keep up
Change the clutch and pressure plate every 40 runs or so and take the tranny apart and dress the 3 and 4th gears up and look at the 3-4 slider and maybe replace it if needed
I knew some Chevy SB modified eliminator racers, short stroke(2.86 to 3.00) and a lot(6.50,6.86) gear in the rear and a lot of RPM with a heavy flywheel back then
I had a friend who bracket raced a 1970 340 Duster with 5.57 gears in the Dana 60 and a 3.09 1st gear set I put in the NP833 tranny for him, you where real busy for the first 300 ft. in that car shifting it at or near 7000 RPM
It was high maintenance also

Glides might be fun, consistent, but there is nothing like a stick.

Nothing better than a gear jammer. Just got back from a gear jam session in my 69, 340,4spd dart. Can’t get enough of it. Epic fun

You had to spend some cash if you were running a stick car. My Challenger used a Liberty four speed crash box with the very high first and second gear and 538s in the Dana behind a smaller 430 ci Hemi, tunnel ram with doms. Launched at 6500, shifts at 9000 and 9900/10000 through the traps. Maintenance on this thing took up most or the week so you could race on the next weekend.

Hremicar1971 that is the same set up we had in our SS/D 1 Challenger. Hemi 4 speed and shifting at 8500 thru the traps at 9 grand. That hemi pulled hard.

I'd love to do it. But the cost to put a reliable stick in a 900hp 3350 lb car is well beyond my budget.
Doug

I am in the process of building a 2004 Dakota. It will have a tunnel rammed small block, 4-speed, and a very narrow Dana 60. The rear tires are 33 X 21.5 X 15, and yes they fit inside the stock wheel wells. Sticks are the best.

My first street and then race car was a 70 340 dart 4 speed, man was it fun! Then I put the drive train out of the Dart 4 speed and all in a 48 Anglia, it was wild fun. I had scores of people look and comment on the old Anglia. Late 70's it ran low 10's, then I built an automatic race car for the next 30 years. I am in my 60's and my last street car is a 69 cuda with a 4 speed, and I have to admit, I just can not shift them like I used too. The old Anglia with a four speed was top 3 in the local track points several years in a row with the 4 speed. But there is just nothing like side stepping a clutch and banging 2nd gear.

What Cal said:

"They where neat to watch, they where pure hell to maintain"

I used to crew on a Super Stock 67 Plymouth Hemi four speed car, geez what a parts eater.

I have a friend that calls them a "4 S Mess".

When I started racing Mod Prod was still around and some of them bracket raced at Assumption. One guy could make 3 runs before it ate a clutch. Another had a Doug Nash in a small block Corvette and it would make about 2 runs before it ate gears.

As said, awesome to watch, miserable to own.

A powerglide and a spare (at least although I know someone will come along and say they have used the same PG for a decade and never changed the oil but I know racers lie) at least 3 converters to get it right, and then a converter and two good spares, a quality cooler and all the associated crap and the automatic isn't cheaper. The stick isn't as simple to tune or drive as a pop up toaster. But it certainly isn't any more expensive when you finally learn the clutch builders are liars. And they are still lying for the most part.

Good clutches start at 2500 buck and go up from there. An expensive clutch is cheap money.

I have one push button 727, one converter. $1100 in the converter, $250 in upgrades. About $1100 in the trans as well. no spare. I have parts to build one but it has only stranded me once in 550 passes. That was a design flaw in an aftermarket part which I redesigned. I couldn't even buy a clutch, flywheel, and bell housing for that kind of money. Now if someone would like to sponsor me I'm all over it.
Doug

I'll sponsor you DVW, but just at the street haunts so I can make my money back with your winning car. LOL

A serious stick car is a completely different animal from an auto/transbrake car. The parts available now are very reliable and aren't cheap. But the other things - rear end, shocks, chassis, etc. - will quickly show any weak links if you try to cheap out on any of it. And data acquisition is money very well spent.

I used to run a stick car on the streets many, many moons ago and it was the best fun that I could remember to boast about. I can remember specific runs with three pedals under me as apposed to trying to remember and be fond of any recent Automatic slush box runs.
Yeah, automatics are consistent, but it takes a lot of patience, skills and some $$ to run, maintain and win with a row boat.

Lack of time and unnecessary funds to run a stick keeps me with a fluid level tube in my car.

If I had the time and endless no worries of funds, I'd drive, race and stick with a stick car in a heart beat.

Automatics and convertors have come a long way since the bad days and nights to convert most racers from stick, but there are a few out there that can give an auto box a run for its money.
Let the trash talk begin. LOL

.

Been racing stick cars since 1977..last time I made a pass in a auto car (not mine) I managed to run a 12 in a 10 second car..lol... I' keep running speeders...

Love it, so cool!

I don't hate myself enough to run a 4-spd.

I recovered from it , love those automatic once you get the good parts for them also

Seems most in this thread haven't figured it out yet, doesn't have to be as hard or expensive as it may seem.

Under about 800hp, $900 can get you a flywheel/PP/disc that can get the job done. Just as quick if not quicker than an automatic, while being easier on trans/driveline parts. The key is adding a clutch hit controller, which enables you to match the hit of that clutch to the engine. You will then be able to dead hook the launch without bogging the engine, which is far more consistent than chasing track conditions for just the right amount of wheelspin. And you will be able do it with an 833.

If you want to know what a clutch hit controlled dead hook launch looks like, check out the heads-up pro-tree NMRA Coyote Stock class. Automatics and trans brakes are legal there, but you won't find any.

Grant

We have a car I've helped with, 9.30s in good air, will go mid 1.20s in 60 if he wants it to, 3500# or so, 4 link, good parts, G-Force clutchless 5 speed. Dead hooks and repeats like a dragster when everyone else is b!+@#ing about the track. 2 words, Racepak, video.

I loved bracket racing my 4-speed Dart years ago as I ran it about 5 years until I rolled it. But it sure did break a lot more parts then my 63 has with the auto. Ron

Awesome! I'd love to be able to run stick car more frequently, but I just wouldn't be able to break anything. Lol.

I loved driving/racing a stick car on the street, but was never able to cut a competitive light with one at the track. My lack of consistency was sad, but running real street tires didn't help the problem.

I remember running the Mickey Thompson (I) tread street tires and thought those were the hot ticket. Then I went to Old school Kelly's. Then I went to an old school pair of Casler cheater slicks that someone gave me. Car would not hold much unless I rode out the clutch which was a 3000 Lb unit.
It was only when I went automatic that I discovered the Mcreary's dirt track tires and proceeded to make mice out of men on the street. Sticky with hardly no burnout.

I ran My wife's 4 speed Challenger for a year while building my racecar. I couldn't cut a light either. Then I fabricated a adjustable clutch stop. Adjusted the stop so the pedal didn't go all the way to the floor. Night and day difference.
Doug

I practiced on so many a traffic light with my stick and was good at the hole launch.
Once raced two other guys besides me at the same time, one a 70'-71' Challenger and the other a stick Vega or something. Got 'em both by a car length. They both asked me after what was I running for a trans because it sure was smooth and rapid. "Muncie M22 and good foot work Fellas. The good nights on Francis Lew.

Unless something has changed, during the last NMRA event that I attended, (which was 3-4 years ago) I had a conversation with one of the Coyote Stock drivers specifically regarding the transmissions they run. The guy I spoke with indicated that most of them run a g-force, TKO or some type self built/concocted T5. I inquired on how long the service life is and he indicated that it's normally one weekend event, sometimes less. He also indicated that there was one auto running that weekend but, it was about 2 tenths off the pace.

To be competitive in the class, I understand the need to run a stick but, for a bracket car, I could not see changing the transmission after every event and rebuilding the one that came out of the car (I think most of these guys have more than one). I have two friends that run at these same events in another class and run similar times as the Coyote Stock guys. One has a c4 and the other, a c5. They normally run their transmissions for 5-7 years before a rebuild. For the masses, is it that much more fun for the work and money that's required? For some, maybe but, not for me. This is coming from a former "Don't have a clutch, then you don't have much" or "real men drive cars with 3 pedals" type of guy. Not anymore, give me a C4, 727 or T400 any day.

FYI- I still have 2 stick cars.

If they are breaking gear boxes like that, it's the clutch, every time. I realize those guys are limited by the junk clutches those cars come with, but they don't make that much power. It's junk clutches that kill parts.

A good clutch will break parts just as fast, maybe faster, if the operator doesn't know how to run it. Something has to slip somewhere or it will break and/or bend stuff.

In 2015, the only Coyote Stock racer using the ClutchTamer was Jacob Lamb. He's the guy who installed a factory "HOOD" release handle on the 'tamer and flew under the radar for a while. At the time, it was common for the typical CS racer to have the transmission/clutch out of the car several times during an event and broken transmissions were common. Jacob never broke another T5 after the 'Tamer was installed, and ended up season champ.

In 2016, Coyote Stock racer Carlos Sobrino also started using the 'tamer and began setting sealed engine records. The 'tamer reduced his need for clutch maintenance to the point where there was little need to pull the transmission during an event. At that point other racers started to notice, but broken transmissions had been so common in the class that NMRA amended the rules to allow the DR4 and G101A.

Fast forward to the 2017 season, by August there were around CS 10 racers that were using the 'tamer. Everything was going smooth and 'tamer customers were winning almost all the races, until a couple Black Magic sponsored racers complained to NMRA that some racers were using the 'tamer which they thought was cheating. There were some meetings, then on Sept 12 NMRA posted a rules clarification that effectively made the tamer illegal. When those 'tamer users got wind of the change, there was a Coyote Stock mutiny with many threatening to quit. The change meant the 'tamer users, who by now many had gotten their own clutch sponsors, would likely have go back to using the special Black Magic counterweighted pressure plate. The 'tamer saved them a lot of money and work, and they did not want to go back to the high maintenance program of pulling the trans several times a weekend for clutch maintenance. On Sept 13 NMRA had an emergency meeting to address the issue, and the amendment was re-written to specifically allow use of an un-modified ClutchTamer. I should mention that I have never been to an NMRA race, and have never even been face to face with any of the NMRA racers or officials. I don't sponsor anyone in the class, nor do I offer any contingencies. Those guys use my 'tamer only because it makes them more consistent and saves them money.

Grant

I totally agree. Some guys can break water with no tools. Those people you can't help.

Just watched, very cool.
I do like watching both the autos and sticks race. But there is no doubt the stick cars are more fun to watch. Anything can happen even after the launch.
Dry hops are hard on clutches, transmissions, rears, unibodies, springs,...........

Lost a friend, engine/car builder a few weeks back, Bill Baker. This is his stick shift dart. He liked RPMs too. His son Dave is driving,
Also cool

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gbmsjLXcKw

a good guy.

Didn't know he was the "engine guy"you were referring to that was ill.
Watched them race at Quaker for many years.
That old Dodge ramp truck and those high winding fast Darts.
Sorry to hear

I loved racing my four speed Dart in the late 70's and early 80's. I used the Hurst Super Shifter with the T handle and I could bang some gears with that setup. It was a 340 Dart running low 12's and high 11's. But I broke a lot more parts on that car then I have on my 10 second 63 with the Auto as I always put the go pedal on the floor as the clutch came out. So for a guy on a budget like me the auto is much easier on the drivetrain but I still love stick shift race cars and would love to drive one again. Ron

It's always hard to argue with someone against their own personal experience, especially when that experience has been reinforced by countless others over the years. I myself have had that same experience from back in the day and can understand where you are coming from. But that said, the above is only true when one doesn't know any better. A little clutch hit control goes a long ways. If you had become aware of it back in the day, I think you would likely be racing a stick shift car right now.

Grant

100% correct.

Yes I also agree 100%. Ron