The 505 must be getting popular

I stopped by the local engine builder yesterday to help with a Sniper install. He has five 505 engines in process. All of them have Trick Flow heads and three of them have the Holley Sniper. One of them has the 270 heads and a solid roller but the rest are 240 heads with hyd roller.

10 years ago it was pretty rare for this shop to build a 500 inch Mopar stroker. Maybe 3 or 4 of them a year but now he is building a lot of them.

I do like the 505 combo since it basically falls together with shelf parts. Just a little surprised to see so many of them in his shop at one time.

It really does make for a great combo.

One of our local guys just picked up his 505 from the builder in Salina, KS that does the engines for Farmtruck. He said he's done a couple of these recently.

Sounds like a lot of fast Mopar's hitting the streets soon.

I can still remember those Muscle Motors ads 20 years ago when the 493 stroker kit was almost 3 grand, and the only head options were ported stock stuff, or Indys. We've come a long way!

There are tons of them on fakebook these days. People are always posting about them.

Makes a nice easy combo with the 7.1 rod and chevy rod journal - seems the 4.15 crank is not as popular anymore

Yeah I can't think of a good reason to use a 4.15 crank with the big Mopar rod journal for a new build. Maybe if a guy already has the parts. But if you're buying new parts I don't see any reason to go with a smaller, heavier and more expensive combination.

There are some nice piston choices now for the 7.10 rod. Mahle has a shelf piston with metric rings, Diamond has a shelf piston and ICON has pistons. I think JE and SRP also have pistons, not sure about Wiseco since I haven't looked at their catalog in a long time.

Dollars per hp has never been better, or more accessible than today.

So is there any advantage or disadvantages between the 440/505 or the 400/512 I personally run?
Curious is all.

The 400 block is my choice for any build other than a restoration numbers matching build deal.
I have built several 400 strokers with a 4.300 stroke crankshaft also, they hum along pretty well also

The RB block has better choices for main bearings and intake manifolds. Also, a lot of headers are designed for RB blocks rather than B blocks. I've also run into various clearance issues with B blocks that the RB blocks don't have. It just seems like the aftermarket is more up to speed on RB parts than B parts so life is a little easier when you build a 440 based engine.

This a somewhat surprising twist to me, for years most of the high HP non aftermarket BB guys have leaned to the 400 block for strength and longevity desires...

That is true, Koffel has been building big power 400 blocks for 40 years but evidently the bearing mfgs don't care. There has never been a good selection of main bearings for the low deck. The intake manifold selection is also fairly limited. No low deck Super Victor, not many choices for a low deck dual quad intake either.

I have a 1973 400 block (630) that I want to build to 550-600hp for the dragstrip only. So far I was thinking after all my research, is to stroke the engine with Trickflow 240 heads. I read AndyF's Max-Performance book and was thinking 451 or 470...or maybe go right for the 512???

Can you more experienced racers give some suggestions of a build that might work for me? It looks like my budget is about $10K

Below is an idea for a build...

- 440source stroker kit with 2.200 BBC journals
- compression at 11-1 or 12-1 (high octane pump gas or 110 race gas)
- 590 mopar performance flat tappet cam
- Trickflow 240 heads
- single plane intake with holley carb

I'm thinking about the same thing here except I have a 440 crank already cut for a low deck so...451 is the deal for me though a 470 is still tempting. I thought about the 512 but in a low deck I don't think I like the short rod needed. Also, with a 512 I'd probably run the 270cc heads over the 240.

Where do you want the power band? Seems one of the biggest changes with going with a big stroker is what rpm you will spin the motor.

All the low deck motors I have built have the B small mains. like Andyf said finding bearings is a pain. If I were building another I would go with the RB mains. Have the mains bored out. Then you can get bearings with the proper clearance. Mopar performance cams are antique specs. I would recommend an Isky mega flat tappet or talk to Hughes Engines.

Your plan will work. A 470 with 11:1 compression ratio, Trick Flow 240 heads, Trick Flow intake and a big cam will easily make 600 hp. I've never tested the 590 cam with the 240 heads and I probably wouldn't use the 590 cam myself, but I'm sure it will work in a drag race engine. The idle quality might really suck but I bet it will pull hard from 3500 rpm on up. On an engine like that I'd use a Holley Sniper rather than a carb but that is up to you.

One way to pick up some power is to buy the Trick Flow intake manifold from Hughes Engines with the deep port match. Just order ahead of time since it takes them a few weeks to do the port work. This is the easiest way to get some intake manifold work done since most guys don't have the proper tools for intake manifold porting.

Yes, figuring out how you are going to use the engine is the most important step in engine building. A lot of people put race parts on street engines and then they aren't happy with the result. I've made that mistake a lot of times myself. Street engines need to be built differently than race engines. A lot of guys posting in the race section are actually building street engines. Nothing wrong with building a street engine to work on the street. Just take the ego out of it and don't worry about the fact that your cam and carb are smaller than what someone else used on a race engine.

we have a 400/511 low deck B1 engine at engine shop now,they will be putting in the BCR cap and girdle system in, I should have them bore and hone for larger RB bearings it seems. This is our first low deck build, didn't realize the low availability of main bearing choices for a 400 .

If you are purchasing a rotating assembly, no reason not to do the 505. And if 600 hp is your target, you can get there blindfolded with 505, trick flow heads and the right solid lifter cam, on pump gas. The MP 590 cam is fine, but there might be a better grind for your combo. Check with Dwayne Porter (fast68plymouth), he is a comp cams dealer and can help you choose the right cam.

I’d build a 511, use the TF 270 heads and a mild roller cam.

It’s not likely you’re going to decide you want less power at some point in the future...... might as well get the extra cubes up front while they’re free.

Thanks for the feedback guys.

If the crank is cut with the 2.200 BBC journals...is there a better selection of main bearings? 440source kits come with bearings.

So I will look at different Cam options too. The MP 590 is as old as the TRW 2293's that came outta my 383...

Dwayne...i hear you about wanting more power in the future...but I can build for that then. Winters are long here as you know:) I will have to look into your services.

i think the problem is the main bearings selection, not the rod bearings. a 2.2 journal is the rod journal.

while we are on the subject, any of you guys think the PP240 head is too much head for a healthy 451 low deck street motor with maybe a cam like the MP 284 solid.

By the time you bore the mains on the 400 block to 440 size, you will have spent the better part of $1000. As long as you're doing it, you need aftermarket caps. Then there's the issue of finding a shop to do the work. They have to have the right machinery. Then consider that in what is probably the weakest part of the block you have removed material.

When E-berg built his stroker years ago he bored the mains and everyone jumped on him about it.

Chuck Senatore says in his book to build the biggest shortblock you can afford. He knows a lot, I'd say take his advice.

R.

PS: I was a fierce proponent of long rods until Enginemasters winners seemed to be using some pretty short rods. Big inch LS and Hemi engines are using R/S ratios of around 1.53:1 meaning a 6.125 on a 4" stroke, and getting nearly 2hp/cubic inch. Kaase built a modular engine that won and it had a 4.625" stroke with a rod that couldn't have been longer than 6.5" for a R/S of 1.40. The mountain motors are all running R/S ratios around 1.38.

OK...i see that only Clevite 77 P-Series Main Bearings are available for the low deck engine. At 600hp, this should not be an issue according to what I have read.

I see Trickflow has a cam for racing...

https://www.trickflow.com/parts/tfs-61602003

Anyone tried this Cam?

The 505 we are currently building is going together very easy. It is the 440 source kit with the light weight crank option and rods with the ARP2000 bolts. All the clearances were good, did not have to miss with fitting the rod pin ends, 0.0025" rod clearances, 0.003" main clearances.
crank end plat in spec, rod side clearances in spec, crank and rods clear the block fine, closest the rod comes is to the oil puckup tube that has the large 1/2" tube adaptor on the pickup tube. The cam bearings even went in with no problem or having to clearance them.
So far only thing not totally happy with was the balance job. Although it is fine for the mild combination we are building, the weight difference on the rod big ends varied by about 3-grams.

That's what I have in mine, full groove mains in this 451. I've had it apart once for inspection since the initial build, they're holding up.
No worries, you can run those P bearings.

I usually use 15w40 or 20w50 oil, 65+ psi hot, but I'm thinking I might run 30 weight this spring, maybe synthetic, and see how I like it.
I bet it will be fine.

Can't help on the cam (mines a solid roller).

The issue with the main bearings isn't the quality but the availability. What happens if you want coated mains for a low deck? How about coated and chamfered? How about 0.001 undersize or split sizes or 0.001 under with a chamfer and you need it tomorrow?

Thanks for the input on the bearings Andy. I chose the 400 block for its strength in the bottom end from what I have read...I hope the bearing thing won't be and issue for my builder. I will discuss this with him.

Thanks again.

Zippy, what heads and solid roller cam do you have?

Chip, I am running RPM heads that I blended slightly at home (by eye/common sense...I don't have a flow bench), and a .630 gross lift Custom Comp that was ordered from Dwayne Porter.

Off the shelf bearing selection is kind of limiting.
at least 440 source has chamfered mains available.

Old ('70s) publications used to discuss various ways builders would massage the bearings for a desired end result. I've never done anything like that myself, but it is funny how it is almost a taboo topic these days.

Thanks Zippy!

Here is a quota on Mahle-Clevite website about coated bearings...

"We often get customer inquiries for coated bearings that we do not produce. We deal with three excellent and well-known coaters in the USA and any of the three can meet your needs for a coated Clevite bearing. They are: CALICO Coatings in Denver, NC, HM Elliott in Mooresville, NC and POLYDYN in Houston, TX. They all can be accessed via a web search. Tell them they were recommended by MAHLE Aftermarket Inc."

Anyone ever tried this process? I guess it won't help in the limited size availability.

Ive sent my own bearings to calico along with the pistons and valves to have done, they also had the same bearings already coated but did mine for the listed fee.

Alot of guys in the know use calico.

If I'm doing a low deck engine I order main bearings a few weeks in advance from Hughes Engines. Hughes will chamfer them and get them coated but it takes time.

Hughes can't make what doesn't exist though so there aren't any 3/4 groove bearings for low decks and there probably aren't any 0.001 undersize bearings so your crank grinding has to be spot on.

If you are dealing with a shop that doesn't do a lot of Mopar engine they might not know this stuff. If they do a lot of Chevy engines then they are used to being able to order coated bearings overnight delivery from Summit.

I used the Clevite ms876p full groove main bearings in my 511 with Molnar crank. I did not chamfer them. Plain forgot too, but had .008 or .009 crank end play anyway. Didn't have any binding of any kind. Beat on it last 2 seasons and so far all is well with 80psi cold oil pressure and 65 hot at idle in drive. I use Amsoil 20/50 Dominator with .003" main bearing clearance.
Also, just remember coating those bearings closes up some oil clearance.

The calender moves much quicker than you think! Plan for that extra power as much as you can now so you don't have to duplicate purchases or worse, re engineer a large part of your build. Stick with the small main bearings.

It is probably O.K. in a generic sort of way , but TrickFlow is known for cylinder heads.
I'd call a cam grinder and get exactly what you want.
There are several I have read about on these pages.
I called Bullet and really like what they came up with for me.
You will need specific numbers......head flow at the top of that list.
But build info......compression , intake , trans , gears etc.
Intended use.
Mine is not an all out effort , and I made some compromises for street manners.....so this isn't just for hard core race engines.
What they suggest will not be reinventing the wheel , but more like refining it specifically to your motor / car.