D-60 vs 9"....here we go again....

Dana with 3.54 gears, 35-spline Detroit locker.

Nine inch with 3.50 gears, 35-spline Detroit locker.

Same length wheel to wheel.
You don't need to know anything else.
Which is stronger ?

The Dana, by a good margin.

Ok..... on a “Don’t need to know anything else” basis, i see you with two grease covered junk yard rears from old rusty pickups that you paid a c note for. In this case, pick the Dana....

It depends on what parts are in the 9". A good aftermarket one will be stronger. A stocker will not be close.
Doug

Like always the "stock" Dana is stronger than a "stock" 9"
Now build a 9" without ANY Ford parts then the race is on. Three bearings to support the pinion against the ring gear will ALWAYS be better than two
And yes it will cost about twice as much but in the end you will have a better unit.
Still have a Dana in my car though

Gus

Well..........

The Dana is going to be stronger given the critical fact "Detroit locker". Per Dr Diff on another thread some might remember:

"The size of the 9" differential is dictated by the presence of the third "pocket" bearing. Because of this, 9" differential internal parts are much smaller and weaker than the Dana 60 version. This is not a concern with a spool, but it gives the Dana 60 a big advantage for a heavy/torquey street/strip car with a traction differential."

OK
I'll play because I'm having the same delema.

Strange S-60 or Strange 9" complete rear

One other thing WEIGHT?

I heard the S-60 is only 15lbs more

Cost?
This will be going in a 1971 Demon

100% agree

If you want to get into more detail, the Dana 60 is one of the more efficient rear ends, even more than an 8 3/4", while the Ford is one of the worst. It's a small percentage, but it is there.

It has to do with how close the pinion is to the ring gear centerline. Plus, the Ford has an extra bearing - more drag.

If you know the gear you'll be staying with, go Dana 60.

This ...I am currently in the same dilemma, I will probably go with a 9" Ford simply due to the ability to change 3rd members as necessary.

Build one w/ good parts and the 9" is better.

That efficiency argument is a wash. You'll never see it, unless you're in a low powered class car that needs every tiny ounce of free movement to run a number. The benefits of an aftermarket 9" far outweigh any efficiency issue.

Personally if I were to build a new rear-end I would go with an all aftermarket 9" - Cost wise you can build a S-60 cheaper than a 9" but the gear availability of a 9" is better and the ease of the gear change is also much better.

My S60 in the Duster is 198lb with strange calipers/rotors.

The gear swap deal... I have my 4.30 gear on a separate spool so a gear change can actually be done in a timely manner as it has its own shim pack & the S60 has side adjusters so that takes a lot of “grief” away from set up over a D60.

We went with the Dana style as it was a somewhat affordable “set it & forget it” rear for when my dad had the car. From a weight and gear selection standpoint, I think I would have gone with a fabbed 9” based deal. Or 8.75+.25 for you Mopar purists

Yes the 8 4/4 is a popular swap Jay lol.

I went Dana mostly due to cost, and I knew it would be plenty for my car. For the cost of having two good 9" 3rd members ready to go I can have the local diff guy swap gears for me many times.

Lets be honest. A 9" looks improper under a Mopar.

Thank you all for your responses.

If I could corral this back in a little....

Given the same aftermarket axles for each rearend ( shortened ),

Which is stronger ?

Not which is cheaper, which is lighter, which is prettier, etc.

Possibly the comparison comes down to the Detroit Locker itself
in each rearend, or maybe the gear hypoid offset...…????

The D60 will handle over 1000 hp.I remember the article switching from an 8 8.75 t0 a D60 with the dana being 50 lbs heavier with no change in E/T.
I still have the spool that came in the car 30 years ago!

If the 9" has a stock centersection, then the Dana is stronger.
If the 9" has a good aftermarket centersection and pinion support, then it's the better choice.

I can't comment on the differential, b/c everything I have uses spools.

My comment would be... if you’re using a Detroit locker, it doesn’t matter. Street tires wont hurt either one.
If you are planning on using a Detroit locker with slicks, you should change your plans.

OE 9" center sections are not adequate for any decent power level or abuse. And stock housings are kind of flimsy as well.

Gear ratio options, aftermarket support and development, ease of maintenance, all steel housing, strength with proper prep, all favor the 9.

If I were doing a Mopar for a reasonably close to stock chassis, leaf spring, street/strip deal, where the ratio doesn't need to be dialed in exactly right and where I didn't want to spend 5K, I would use a 60.

Race car, tube chassis or back halfed, narrow 4 link, busy and/or fabricated housing with lots of stuff on it, need to be kept light, need to dial the ratio in, 9" all day long.

Somewhere in between? Depends.

It's not so much one is better than the other, but depending on the intended application, one or the other will probably be a better choice.

This is a B S question because there is "always more to it". Sounds like you want a Dana, put a Dana in it.

You could always upgrade to a Dana 70, housing is the same size as a 60 and you get a 10.5" ring gear and you can get gears from 3.55 to into the 7.17 gear ratio...stolen from Jantz engineering

Your Ring & Pinion is 33% stronger with no loss of ground clearance.

Dana rates the 60 @ 6000 Ft-lbs maximum momentary output torque. 35 spl HD.

Dana rates the 70 @ 8000 Ft-lbs maximum momentary output torque. Non HD.

That's a 2000 ft-lb increase in capacity.

Here's another way of looking at it.....

Back in the day, Ford half-tons used 9" rears. Back in the day, Ford 3/4 tons used Dana 60s.

R.

Years ago 12 bolt chevies were popular in stock and super stock. Not sure what they prefer now.

this is what makes MOPARTS.....LMAO

Who really cares, they both strong, they both have their place....

Personally, id never put a DANA, its a dump truck rear...LMFAO !

Flame on !!!

Isn’t the 9/12 the one to use now? 9” housing with a 12 bolt chevy ring and pinion.

12 bolt for 9”...

IIRC the 12 bolt was the most efficient of the popular rear ends.

Stockers have to use a corporate rear, so for GM cars it's a 12 Bolt for them. Some still use the 8.5. Mopars will use a 8.75 or a 60.

Super Stock can use whatever. I don't know of anyone who's used a 60 in an AH car for many years. The 12 Bolt center section is typically a lightweight car or a Comp deal where the last ounce of efficiency matters and frequent maintenance is part of the drill.

Also isn’t the Ford 8.8 stronger than a 9”

One thing to consider is the chassis it's going in. A 9" will allow you a narrower chassis in a tube car for more tire clearance than the 60 will.

I had to check - out of curiosity. A 70 is 60lb. heavier than a 60.

The housing of a 70 is 60lbs heavier or the entire assembly? I would think its the entire assembly and mostly concentrated in the brakes.

Passenger car D 60s have thinner wall tubing than Ford truck D 60s. Floater style Dana axles have very thick wall tubes. All 70s are floaters, so the tubing is very thick. It doesn’t seem to far fetched that a 70 could be 60lbs heavier without axle ends/ brakes.

Since some think 6000 ft lb strength is not enough, and a dana 70 is too heavy, it is, you can put a dana 70 ring and pinion in a 60 housing. Stronger than a 60 and lighter than a 70. Jantz engineering shows you how.

Does anybody know the weight difference between a S-60 and 9" with an aluminum center section?
Every thing else being the same ie axles (35 spline axles) spool, axle tubes, axle ends.

Comparing images, it looks like a lot of it is in the center section of the housing. Can't see a 70 as a good option for a race car.

Me thinks the 40 spline axles gun drill lightweight option are a better choice for both rear ends

this is what I was told as well . And I can tell you first-hand a 40 spline with a big gun drill. Was lighter than my 31-spline that wasn't drilled

One thing to consider is the bending of axle tubes. This was always something Monte Smith pointed out. At high power levels, you can't stop the tubes from bending on a Dana. 9" rears have all sorts of stronger housings and their design makes them easy to brace up real good.

The Dana housing in my car is bent and I'm not at a really high power level so it only takes a heavy stick car with a stiff clutch and medium traction to bend one.
There are some guys that brace them with tubes and heims like the 8.8 Ford guys do.

I'm not sure the back brace tubes do any thing with the Ultimate 60 covers have but it looks cool
Gus

Maybe forget all this nonsense and put a Rockwell F106 truck rear in the car
Gus

That looks really expensive...

I don't know how much power it takes to bend Dana tubes? But mine hasn't bent them in 525+ passes at somewhere north of 900hp. 1.25-1.30 60ft@3350lbs (or 3500lbs+ with ballast). The first Motive street gear went 425 passes before it bent a tooth. The 2nd no name street gear only went 100 passes before it broke pinion teeth. This time it got a US gear Pro Gear. I also added the LPW cover like shown above. Braces were not added at this time. We'll go do some real word testing and see what happens,
Doug

OK since I'm chasing light 9" with aluminum center section and gun drilled 40 spline? Do they make gun drilled 35 spline?

Strange charges around $140.00 a pair to drill 35 spline axles when you order them.
Mark Williams will also drill 35 spline axles but I'm not sure what they charge

Gus

I tried to buy the lightweight gun drill axles from Strange for my 1965 Dart S/P car and I ended up letting the female sale clerk talk me out of them
I was planning on ordering the gun drilled lightweight 40 splines at first and she talk me down to the standard 35 spline race axles due to it being a "bracket car"
Never again will I let someone talk me out of better parts especially in the drive train

I think mine may have happened before I got some better shocks on my car. I was racing at the Chrysler classic event about 4 years ago and it hooked hard and unloaded the suspension and bounced the left rear tire off the track. My buddy actually took picture and the car had 3 wheels off the ground. It also bent the wheel studs enough that I had to cut them off to unscrew them from the axles.
Ever since then the axles are hard the get in and out of the housing. They are Moser 35 spline axles and spool installed a 67 factory Mopar housing. It was a violent launch and I'll never put a 5500 chip in the 2 step again.
Gus

I would take a pair of 24 inch long carpenter squares using a helper to measure the toe in and toe out off of the axles flanges out 15 to 18 inches in front and back to see if the housing is bent or not
Better to find it now and stop the damage before it hurts you and the car

I put the car up on the alignment rack at work and the rear alignment was pretty straight. Very slight difference between right and left.Not enough to be in the red anyway but it wouldn't take much to make the axles bind up in the splines. I recently installed a PowerLock unit with brand new upgraded spider gears and it was even worse with brand new splines.
There is a rear end shop about 40 minutes away that can straighten my housing and re-tube it with chrome molly tubes if necessary.
This is the deal that the Mustang guys are running
Gus

she musta had a pretty voice...……...

I think she had a valid point for you Cab...

I noted last spring checking some stuff out that it was more difficult removing my right axle. Really not bad enough to worry about it, but noted. Possibly one of the times ladder mounts were welded on? I hardly think I’m making enough power to do it.

I have the gun drilled lightweight 35 spine axles from moser engineering in my S-60 - This rear-end was in a FAST car for about 20 passes and was replaced with an 8-3/4 for weight saving - it also has a lightweight spool and the big Ford bearing on the axles - all for weight savings

the dana 60 is faster and stronger than a 9 in. the popularity of a 9 is being able to change center sections faster. the popularity is why gear companys have more ratio selections. you all have to remember it is not horsepower that breaks driveline parts, its all about car weight. a 500 hp car at 4000 pounds will break more driveline parts than a pro stock car will. if pure strength is all you are after and are not going to change ratios dana 60 all day long my car has had the same gear in it since 1999 when the car was built and that is using a trans brake too. it will 60 ft 1.33 at 3360 pounds

This is all true.

I agree but still run a Dana 60. Most of my buddies all have there cars dialed in with 9", so the simplicity of being able to do a quick gear change never matters anyway. They have been running the same gear ratio for years now. The major benefit beside new parts availability is to build a spare center section & to have in the trailer if you break one.

This is a good and informative post. I don't mind rehashing this stuff once in a while as it clears out the cobwebs.

My only [censored] about the S-60 in my red car is that they didn't box the spring perches.

If I had a decent fab shop that could make a housing locally I'd have gone 9". The dana was easier because I could order it and know it will fit based on what was in the car. We were very hesitant to send a pile of money and a build sheet several states away and hope everything fit when it showed up.

What can I say my dealings with Lenco made me very gun shy when it comes to ordering custom big dollar (for this household) items from afar. 90% of my dealings with the "big names" in high performance were rather disappointing.

That said the 10% that lived up to their reputations kept me in the chase for a fast manual trans street car. They all recognized and rewarded hard work.

If my big tire car (the black '66) ever needs any major rear overhaul it will get a 9" with a spool as it is a plated strip car.

The 9" when done with good aftermarket parts is obiviously the cream of the crop. However for 95% of us here the Dana 60 is a cheaper option. We aren't changing ratios at the track. Though if you set up a 2nd set of gears it would be about as quick. And WAY WAY cheaper. In fact most here can probably get good service life from an 8 3/4. Dollars are hard to come by. Spend them wisely.
Doug

A 9 in rear was NEVER put behind a diesel engine in a truck. A 9in housing is lighter then a dana 60 ... so it comes down to what it will be used for.

When I see 9 inches dangling under the rear of a Mopar I just automatically assume the owner has gender identity issues.

if a 9 inch is dangling under something the gender should be easy to spot lol

I have shipped 70 housings via UPS to Dutchman and back, not much heavier than a 60 truck housing. So realistically it is a minor difference between a 70 built for a car...and a truck 60..and way more gear options than a 9"

maybe a car housing with 1/4" tubes, wont bent 3/8" or 1/2" tubes...unless you tweaked the casting...was the tubes welded all the way around the housing? Tim

Who sells a 3.50 pro gear for a 70? Who sells any ratio pro gear for a 70?
I need a spare 3.08 ring and pinion for my 70 in the Dodge diesel. Where can I get this?
I can easily buy either for a 9”...

I guess that you missed the part about 3.54 to 7.17. The 3.08 gears are for a 71, not a 70, they have different offset for the lower gear. I run Dana Spicer gears for everything, if it needs anything extra strength wise, I can get them cryo'd for about $150 no progear necessary with a 10.5" ring gear. You can get a bearing cap support cover, that is about it for aftermarket in a car if you worry about it. Tim

I think a narrow frame rail 4 link tube car, a stock frame B body and a rock crawler jeep all have different needs. There is no such thing as a universal best rear end.

But Moparts is Moparts and people love to have an opionion about stuff they have never done.

A new Dana 60 works nicely in a high torque, leaf spring equipped vehicle.

The lack of a back brace yields a clean installation around the spring perches, U-bolts and shocks.

Unlike a 9" rear where the tubes weld to a sheet metal center, Dana tubes insert 4" deep into a machined, cast housing. Because of this, a back brace is not AS important.

Most guys who complain of bent Dana 60 housings usually run stock, low grade tubing spot welded to the center without an additional weld around the diameter.

BTW, I'm having a batch of 3.23 Dana 60 gears produced. They will be in stock in a month.

3.0 series are 70U. 71 is a name someone invented because there is a dfference, but its not a corporate name. The “U” is for undercut. They bore the housing for clearance for the pinion teeth. The pinion is not offset. You can put a 3.54 gearset into a 70U. You can put a 3.08 in a standard 70 or 70HD if you clearance the casting for the pinion teeth.
Anyway, its a heavy truck rear end. You can never make it as strong or as light as a good 9”.
If you are stuck on putting an oversized ring and pinion in, you can do that with a 9” too...and they are pro gears with oversized pinion pins.
Just adding to the “here we go again” factor!😂