W9 Ritter Small Block

Somebody said I needed do an update of the W9 Ritter Small Block. Here are some pics:

Couple more pics:

Somewhat still on topic... anybody else notice that Ritter posted a bunch of block stuff in the race parts for sale forum here recently? I'm not a SBM guy, but it's still interesting to see it.

EDIT: Them's some mighty shiny crankshaft throws you got there, Mister.

I'm waiting on an Oil Pan from Dan Olsen and an a few other items. I'll probably put the heads on this upcoming weekend.

Bryant Crankshaft

Thanks for the updates, keep us posted.

It's a shame to cover up those beautiful parts with an oil pan!

Can't wait to see what this thing does on the pump. What do you have for an induction system? Hoping that Ritter finally gets his blocks out there so maybe, just maybe the price will come down a bit.

I think I can speak for most of us when we say we love updates!!!

Thanks for the pics ! Mines back from QMP waiting on me. (I've been busy working on my Duster's indy motor.)
I noticed you had to grind a fair amount for the rod clearance,did you also have to grind for the crank throw clearance ?
Who's lifters are you using ?
I'm sure you posted it earlier but how big is it ?

I did grid a bit of rod clearance but I'm using BME 500 Rods (Pretty Big).

The only place the cranksahft did rub a little was on the front counter weight was not chamfered like the rear. It is a little spot were the machine work on the ritter block doesn't go down deep enough, no big deal just a few second with a die grinder and whala!

4.100" Stroke x 4.185" Bore 451CID

Erson Lifters (.904")

man stuff looks amazing great job I'm bettin it makes.. your car fly

get that thing screwed together and make some noise Rob! Can’t wait to see it go!!

Nice stuff!

Are there any oil drain back holes in the rear of the valley?

Yes
Two actually, I won't have an oil pump/distributor drive in this engine so it will have an extra.

This is the rear oil return, I opened this up a little and smoothed the opening.

Front oil return

I don't have a picture of the other oil return in the back but it is right below the oil pump drive gear location. Both return to the rear pan rail next to the rear main cap. See picture #3 in at the beginning of this post.

What was the overall quality of the block, and how much work was required to get you to where you are now?

Bore and hone?
Mainline need honed?
Lifter bores honed?
Any other clearance or areas of concern?

Everything you mentioned should come undersized. Maybe rough bored but not honed. How do I know how the cylinder was finished? Or what size the main bores need to be? Or even lifter sizing.

It's part of building an engine that all those things and more need to be left undersize or too many times you end up doing more work.

I'm more concerned if the Mainline is straight, lifters are properly located etc. I'd assume they come for .904 diameter lifters as that is the standard size for all mopars. Anyone who wants to bush them or go to .937's or keyways are on their own.

I hear you, but how do you set your main bearing clearance? You can buy ten sets of bearings and spend a day and half screwing around, or you buy bearings that are close and finish the main line to clearance.

As for lifter location, I've never seen a block with any name on it that didn't need to be verified. And I've seen plenty that were barely ok, and plenty that were junk, brand new. Plus, you have no idea what size the lifters will be. Many brands are damn small and if the lifter bores are "pre-finished" you either end up going through several sets of lifters of you bush the block to fix it so you can order spares and not have to worry about the lifter being undersize.

Sad to say, the Chrysler guys don't seem to get it. The Chevy guys do. The ford guys do. Even the Pontiac guys get it. They might [censored] about it, but they do it. The Chrysler guys [censored] and whine and snivel about price constantly. It's epidemic. That's why Chrysler SB guys are getting a cylinder head from Trick Flow that takes a stock rocker and won't be much of an upgrade from anything else.

Seen this my entire life. And it still happens. Like I've said before, the Chrysler guys get exactly what they'll pay for. And that's what we get. When a guy does try and bring something to market, he gets his guts kicked out and stomped on constantly.

And I still ain't heard a thing about Dart falling all over itself to build a SBM platform. I knew it wouldn't happen. Dick Maskin isn't that self loathing. And the new owners want to make money and not listen to guys bitching about finish machining.

I think you're missing the point, I understand what goes into building engines, I have 2 of them being screwed together at the moment. I'm trying to understand what condition the blocks are in to start, the issues they had previously are fairly well known. I want to make sure I understand what I'm signing up for before I hand over $4K for one.

Off subject, but where in Washington are you, and what do you race?

Our Ritter block was checked out on a CNC, everything was where it was supposed to be. Hardness checked out good, and I can confirm from machining on the block, it cuts like a Dart block, which seems to be a little less harder than an R3 but much better than a factory block.

Finally getting around to starting the assembly on it next week. Should have it finished by the end of the month. It's going to be E85 street/strip deal now, but more strip than street.

I would still love to see a replica of the older X blocks with revised priority main oiling and run the galleys down the center of the lifter bores. And make them siamesed bores.

I waited for years for something like this, simple, rock solid, tons o potential.... I think the ship has sailed though for someone to make a bunch of money selling them unfortunately as most of us are moving on to gen III hemis now. I bought a BGE block that is near perfect for $300 a couple hundred for a pair of eagle heads (6 actually and I keep getting offered more all the time dirt cheap) a SRT 6.4 forged crank for $150. The after market just waited too long. I was offered a pair of BGE heads for $600 and just didn't have the cash at the time so I am waiting for the next deal like that.

I totally get what you are asking. The point I'm trying to make is stuff happens with every block that comes through. If you bought two Ritter blocks I'm happy. I want to see his stuff succeed. I've talked to Kent on and off over the years since about 1996ish...about the time he was running the Comp car with Weber. I don't bother him much but when I heard he was going to make blocks I called him.

I just don't want people to get the idea that you can buy a block and treat it like a bolt on piece. I've been fighting that for years. And it screws with lots of guys heads. I always tell them it's better if everything is undersized that's a hole and longer than it needs to be if it's a deck height or similar. It's easier to machine something to size then to make it bigger, to make it smaller, to make it correct.

I agree if Kent is putting the lifter bores in it they need to be correct but I'd rather see them come at .900-.901 rather than .903-904 as I can fix the first but the last is much more difficult.

I'm in central Washington. Don't go to the races much any more. Had my fill of it.

I don't know many guys itching to switch to the gen III stuff. When I see NA stuff making power like is being made with good blocks and heads for the SB stuff I may think about doing one just for giggles.

I have a question for you, do you plan on adding water passaged on the deck? On my aluminum block we added the two water passaged right below the center exhaust ports. I also had problems with the 1/4-20 oil crossing holes in the front china wall leaking oil, we tapped them 1/16 NPT. Also one of the rear oil drain back hole is mostly covered by oil pan rail and gasket.

OK, sorry I'll answer best I can.

I had QMP in LA do all the machine work on the block.
Line Hone they said it came right in but yes it needs to be done
My block came 4.150" ruff bore so I had it bored to 4.180" and diamond honed to 4.185"
Lifter bores were dead on but I had them bushed just to make sure (60mm Cam). The other Ritter block I have will not get bushings because the lifter final bore was quit nice (50mm Cam).
I had my block decked to 9.580" (I would recommend decking the block as well).
All the bolts hole were perfect
The overall finish of the block was very nice, the machined surfaces are some of the best I have ever seen.

There are differences between an R3 and Ritter, big differences. Brett Miller and I spent hours on the phone discussing these items. The biggest is the way the Ritter oils. I would not use the China Wall on a Ritter.

Building a big power Small Block is not cheap but the Ritter block is a solid piece, PERIOD!

Very good to hear. I can't wait for this thing to cross the pump then go into the he car.

Hopefully this block will start being made and sold in numbers to get the costs in order.

Lawndart,
I'm not going to add water holes to the deck.
I have not pressurized the oiling system yet so I'm not sure about the cross holes.
As far as the oil pan rail covering the rear return please see the picture in the beginning of the post.
Picture #3

This is the second generation block I think now they are on the 3rd.. it is cracked in the cam tunnel I am curious to see if others have this issue as well we have made decent power with this block and beat it pretty hard.. the crack opens up allowing the cam bearings to slide out with heat also allowing water into the oil I didn't want to scrap the block just yet so we're trying to stop the water leak with some epoxy.. the first generation block that we've machined turned out to be a total piece of junk and unusable. This current block is at 55mm.

. I believe there is a major design flaw in the cam tunnel area but we will have to wait to see what develops with the others that are being built at this point in time

Is it a design flaw, or have the limits of the architecture been reached? The original block was never designed for cam bearings that large. I'm having a hard time orienting myself to the picture. Does the crack go up to the lifter valley or down to the main? Must go down. Too late at night to get it straight.


Maybe a plain cam bearing rather than the roller bearing? IDK just spit balling.


Edit: I know the cam bearings are getting bigger every year. To keep up, you'll have to do it or get left behind. At some point, it may be such a thing as adding two more cam bearings as well. It never ends but cam flex and twist is real. And it has to be dealt with as best as possible.

Whitedart, is there a benefit to lightening the distributor/oil pump drive gear? I think I understand why but is the result worth the effort?

I was told at time of purchase.. 60 mm roller or bigger was doable in this block bye kent. And that's why everyone that seems to be doing these right now are doing a 60 mm
Because typically bigger is better
. We don't run a huge camshaft in this so the 55 mm could get us to where we needed to be with no issue.
I have seen a half a dozen or so of the Generation 3 blocks the quality does seem to be getting better and they have made some needed updates by looking at all the other manufacturers this block should be able to support 2000ish In my opinion. But there is definitely a weak spot under the cam bearing. Which you are correct is above the main... this block has not had an easy life it has been raced hard. And it gets turned over 9,000 RPM . But we are under 1000 HP. Maybe these cracks . Will only happen to this block I hope so I wish the best for everyone else because we really do need a good block to base Are build on..

.. good catch. I have the opinion that ounces makes pounds and everything adds up. I lightened the Gear Up by several ounces. With no negative effect on its mechanical purpose.. I do think it helps get a little more oil down to the bushing.. there's also a small flush hole drilled at an angle from the inside to the bottom to help evacuate oil and any debris that would accumulate in the pocket... I don't turn an oil pump with this gear any longer. So I was able to oversized the holes even more

In my latest generation of the ritter block. We (QM,P Brett & myself)chose to go 60mm babbit for the above reason