EFI Hemi guys - which single 4 intake for EFI conversion ?

Hey guys, I have access to 2 intake single plane 4500 intakes; the Barton and the Indy 426-4 along with a Stage V EFI dual quad intake.

Which one would make a better intake for an EFI conversion and why? Id be looking to run an Accufab 4500 TB.

Apart from height/plenum volume differences, they pretty much both need a longer injector (I have a set of Siemens Deka 80lbs/hr) which one would be a better choice for a street/strip, 4.10 geared 572 Hemi ?

Alternatively, would I be better off with the Stage V EFI dual quad intake with dual TBs and if so, why ?

This should be interesting, really keen to hear your opinions.

Kind of depends on which way you are going with the project and what other parts you already have. Starting from scratch I might go with the Edelbrock EFI intake, especially if you want to fit under a factory hood. If you don't care about the factory hood and you're willing to fabricate your own fuel rails then any of the ones you mentioned should work.

Dual 4150 throttle bodies might work a little better than one big 4500 throttle body but you are just flowing dry air so it isn't as big of a deal as it would be carbs.

Not everyone sells dual throttle body setups so you need to nail down your controller capabilities before you decide on the dual throttle body approach.

I helped out with a dual throttle body FE Ford last year using a FAST controller. That setup worked pretty well but the FAST setup is a little behind the times. We just ran a Mopar big block with dual FiTech throttle bodies. It worked okay but FiTech is pretty low tech. I don't think I'd go that way on a 572 Hemi.

I'd run the dual quad with as much throttle body as you can get. You should consult with my friends at the EFISTORE.COM there the best. I'm assuming you want a fast car.

I run a 1500 cfm throttle body on my Valiant on a Indy intake that looks like the B1. I run a 4 inch throttle body with an elbow on the turbo car that's on an older indy Dominator flange intake.
It's hard to over throttle body efi.

Thanks Andy hood clearance isnt an issue. Not interested in Fitech or any other TB EFI - port EFI is what Im looking to do

When considering the 2 single plane intakes, would the Indy be better for an EFI/dry intake application due to the bigger plenum vol or is it no different running the smaller Barton? A case of same same ?


Similarly will the dual quad have better tip in with the dual 4150s or is it not a problem with a big 4500 TB ?

ECU will likely be a Haltech Elite 2500, a Holley HP or a Autronic SM4.

Thanks

I don't think that Stage-V supplies the fuel rails, at least Eric didn't that last time I talked to him, but they are easy to make and fit on a HEMI manifold. Both Barton and Indy will do that for you, for a price. Injector length is easy to adapt for on any HEMI manifold so that should not be an issue.

As far as performance they are all about equal since they are just flowing air. Dual 4150 Accufabs look great and perform a little better than a single 4500 but not so much you would notice. With dual TBs you use only one TPS and one IAC.

BTW: I'd go Holley EFI.

efiexpert.com

Hey Rich thanx for the input - fuel rail mounting etc I can do easily enough.

Got you on the TPS and IAC, I assume the HP will be fine with the dual TBs.

When you say the duals perform a little better, what are you referring to? Tip in, tuneability, air distribution ?

Thx

How much power are you looking for? This setup was good for 900 hp on my 514 inch wedge. Wilson ported the intake and did the fuel rails for me. If you're looking to make a lot of power I'd recommend going that way. I used the Holley 2000 cfm throttle body with 66 lb/hr injectors.

This setup was controlled by a Holley HP unit. Are you going to use a distributor or go with coils near plugs? Rich and I tested the Mopar cam sync and 36-1 trigger wheel on this engine and everything worked great. So if you need a cam sync and a trigger wheel setup then Rich can supply those.

Andy good numbers for sure.

I want to make the best HP/TQ possible whilst maintaining decent driveability with the car as the combo will be 80% street, 20 % strip.

Yep, it'll be COP so yeah the cam sync will be reqd. I already have a MSD crank trigger setup so I should be able to integrate the COP with this with the Holley pigtail.

I already have 80lb Siemens Deka injectors, these should be OK I feel.

I believe the Ford mod V8 coils will be long enough in the Hemi plug tubes, anyone have a part number for these?

You can use the MSD crank trigger wheel but you should buy the Holley pickup. You don't want to use the MSD magnetic pickup for EFI. Rich can sell you the cam sync and anything else you need for EFI.

I think the intake choice is up to you. They'll probably all work roughly the same so it depends on cost and which way you want to go. I think the Stage V setup has the best chance of making the most peak power but it will also cost the most since you'll need two throttle bodies and a more complex throttle linkage. You'll also have to fabricate some sort of air cleaner. I wouldn't go to all of that work for a street car.

HP or Dominator EFI would be my choice. Both can drive both IACs if you need more IAC air for idle control. Tuneability is easy with the Holleys in either case. Also, dual 4150 TBs are nice on the street with their progressive linkage, yet flow like a bandit at full throttle. My racer customers running dual TBs give up nothing on driveability yet picked up some HP on the dyno and a little better ET.

I even have one customer running dual Drive-By-Wire TBs on his 1000 HP HEMI so he can soften the tip-in even more.

Softer tip in would be nice with two throttle bodies. I have two 1000CFM and it only takes a soft breeze on the pedal to go down the highway lol. My system doesn't support DBW and I am not sure I am ready to trust it yet if it did.

We did a Hemi awhile back with Edelbrock intake and twin Holley T-bodies running a Dominator ECU. If you run twins, you'll need to run/fabricate a progressive linkage. Run the TPS on the main throttle body, not the slave. As stated, tip in with twins opening together is very "sudden"! Can't tune around that.

2 4bbls look much more hemish. It seems to me the Edelbrock intake is a perfect for your street/strip car.

Rich wouldn't progressive linkage be a problem on a stage v manifold the way each plenum only feeds 4 cylinders?

Stage-V has a cross over between the plenums. And the straight linkage opens both throttle body primaries together. The progressive part is the primaries to secondaries on each throttle body.

And yes - The Edelbrock manifold is a great choice: simple, well made, and they provide the fuel rail kit. 80% of the dual TB HEMIs I built use the Edelbrock with no complaints.

Im curious about this. Cant seem to find much info on the system but summit has it listed as pn35670. Supports 950 hp priced pretty decent as well...

http://moparconnectionmagazine.com/video...o-4-efi-system/

Hi Rich I was under the impression that the Eddy intake has a crossover plenum as well ?

Yes it does. That's why they both work well.

Great - the Eddy air gap speaks to me

As a side note, what MSD or ACCEL COP coil is the right length for an Indy head/valve cover on a Hemi ?

Will the Mopar V6 or Ford Coyote coil be long enough? I had a look around but the lengths of these coils cant be found on Holley's website.

Has anyone done this Rich ?

Coyote coils fit ... the coil boot that goes over the spark plug is ~1/2" too long and needs to be trimmed. As long as the Coyote coil you choose uses the stainless steel spring as the connection between the coil and the spark plug electrode, you can push it on and it will fit. I purchased the MSD Coyote coils and once trimmed, they fit properly into the spark plug tube. The pictures below show a stock replacement Coyote Coil trimmed to fit a stock Hemi spark plug tube.

Cool. I did this in 2007 when I used Lexus coils, but those coils were a little weak for a big HEMI. Coyote coils should work great.

Awesome thanx Rich !

I'm fairly sure that the Indy tubes are 1/2" longer, so will the coil boot need trimming like it does for a stock Hemi tube ?

I was looking at the MSD or AED equivalent coils.

Thanx for the input.

and would these coils work on a 392 as well ?