Max Wedge cooling article

http://www.hotrod.com/articles/robert-foleys-426-max-wedge-powered-1963-polara-overheats-gonna-fix/

Interesting what they did on this car. I think I would've tried using stock parts first but guess they went straight for the aluminum radiator. I think a C body radiator with a good shroud would've worked and looked more stock.

I agree.
The stock radiator was no match for the improved 'heatsource' on the other end.

Had a chuckle when I noticed this pic comparing the 2 waterpumps;
http://st.hotrod.com/uploads/sites/21/20...-sheetmetal.jpg

I've tested a number of these on my own engine and found the factory stock 'childs toy' stamped impeller provided way more flow through the system then the 440source one with the cast impeller.
The cast impeller 'should be' better, but is probably not designed that well.

i was curious about the 440 source pump, the idea of the blade being extremely close to the housing might alleviate the benefit of an anticavitation plate.
i was also looking at some of the edelbrock pumps at summit, looks like the 440source pumps impeller is the same...

It lost a lot of credibility when they wrote "Frame Off Restoration" on the intro page. The aluminum radiator doesn't surprise me (probably a sponsor) as I agree, a good factory 3 or 4 core radiator with a shroud would have done just fine and looked like it belonged there.

The problem is that 99% of the readers, and people out there believe all that crap.

Yeah cutting the subframes off of a Mopar just to restore the car seems like the hard way to do it! But I've had some of my articles edited in such a way that they don't make sense anymore. Sometimes an editor will try to simplify a poor sentence and it comes out not making any sense. The writers do not get final approval so the first time I see what I "wrote" is in the grocery store when I look at the magazine.

When they mentioned today pump gas with 13.5 to 1 compression my butt cringed
My real 415 HP M.W. 1963 Plymouth Belvedere car never over heated in the Mojave desert racing it at LACR or driving it on the street on the old 100+ Octane pump gas back in the day with all the original cooling system including the original clutch type aluminum seven bladed fan
Many people who work on cars today don't know which parts work the best, brass and copper radiators will shed a lot more BTU than aluminum will of the same size and construction

Yea, same here.

Wonder why they didn't just use the factory 7 blade clutch fan?
Chrysler doesn't buy full-page ads (rim shot!).

An electric fan is a great idea, except:
1. if it fails you're restricted to keeping your speed above 40 (which may not do it - the shroud is a big restriction)
2. above 40 you don't need any fan at all
3. you're not really going to keep a spare in the trunk, are you? I've seen 20 X more busted electric fans than mechanical fans - and all the mechanicals had something hit them (the electrics broke all by themselves). The factory fan in my Coupe DeVille ate a cat, chewed it up, and spit it out with no damage (to the fan, the cat was shredded).

It's not so bad - last month one of the staff monkeys explained that "they're called 'funny cars' because the engine isn't the same brand as the chassis". I guess he was born long after 1965. But he could have asked? Who in that magazine would know, or care?

They should re-title it "1968 Camaro Monthly".

It is a good looking 63 Dodge as I like the car. Ron

What bothers me with this Griffin radiator, and the one in my car, it the holes in the brackets don't line up correctly. On mine it looks like the brackets are made correctly, but welded in the wrong place. That is pretty bad for such an expensive radiator.
On their radiator they had to lower it, and on mine, I had to raise it because the lower tank was hitting.

I bet if he had put a better fan on it and had overdriven the pump it would be fine.
Radiators get too much focus. Airflow is most important

Coolant flow is where it starts. In a hundred MPH wind if you have no flow you won't have cooling.

That has to be the weakest burnout video I've ever seen.

I actually prefer the look of an aluminum radiator unless I'm trying to do a 100 point restoration. It looks killer in that car and hopefully works better for him.

Yeah, like a half throttle burnout ?? Surely that thing could top gear @ 6000 on the spot.

I put an aluminum radiator in my '65 Coronet but I painted it flat black so it would look stock to the casual eye.

I have the same car and use a '65 radiator, clutch fan and don't even run a shroud and it keeps my '63 cool! I don't attempt to run 13.5:1 CR on the street, either!

~$2k to fix an overheating issue. SMH.

My experience riding along on Drag Week tells me this is not true on all cars.

Bill

I bought a 4 core for my 68 RR from these folks.
http://www.usradiator.com/plymouth-road-runner-1966-69-v8-bb-radiator.html
It took 4 -6 weeks to get it as they build it to spec. The fit was perfect. Even the orig. fan shroud holes were in the correct location. I am very pleased the appearance. It cools the 383 the best it ever has been. I am swapping to a 470".

Mark

Assuming that the radiator is big enough for the engine?
Will vary somewhat based on the shape of the nose, exposed radiator core area, air exit path away from the core, etc.
For core area start with 1 square inch per anticipated HP. Of course, this is impossible in those cars - the largest radiator that fits the stock opening is simply way too small. Making the core thicker is a band-aid, can only do so much. A 1,000 HP car can't cool continuously at any large throttle opening.

Bump!

Can you provide data for your water pump flow testing results?

Thanks - Brad

Chrysler made millions of stamped impellers, and would have known in 1958 if they didn't work from the police contracts (continuous WOT use at low air speeds). Cost to change the shape: zero.
Note that the stamped offset leg is larger than the cast impeller thickness...

No 'scientific flowrate data' unfortunatly, but just some simple observations of how fast the water moved in the radiator with the thermostat and cap removed.

I recall having tried 3 or 4 waterpumps; 2 factory cast iron ones, and I think 2 alum. ones. I also changed between a cast iron and alum. waterpump housing back-to-back but found no change in 'visible flow' or temp change with the same waterpump.

Also tried to make sure all waterpumps were installed at the proper depth, so the impeller was just a 'gasket-thickness' away from bottoming out in the housing.

The engine I was working on at the time was running hot and I wanted to know if the waterpump or housing could help with the situation.

What I did find was that the 2 aluminium waterpumps with scroll type impellers didn't move the water all that fast when the engine was revved.
But when I installed the stock cast iron, stamped impeller waterpump the water came rushing by like in a washing machine.

Also did find out that not all waterpumps are/were created equally, eventhough they carried the same part/casting numbers.

These are about the only pics I took at the time;

How industry works: why actually design a part for a specific need, when you can buy something (a cast impeller) designed for a different application - cheaper.

I have a stock sized aluminum radiator in my '65 with a shroud and a Mopar clutch fan. With a 180 thermostat the temp goes up to 180 and then stays there. I haven't tried to see what would happen with a different thermostat. I think I have an Edelbrock water pump on the engine but I actually don't remember since it has been on there so long.

The 318ci in my daily driven '73 Dart always had the 'issue' it never really got upto temp.
It has a stock 3-core radiator with fanshroud, 7-blade fan with thermo-clutch, but the clutch unit is worn-out and, hot or cold, the fan is just free wheeling along with the waterpump. Can easily be stopped with a newspaper.
Put in a 160°F thermostat and it will run 140-150°F on average.
Put in a 180°F thermostat and it will run 160-170°F on average.

I usually run a 160°F thermostat because the 318ci had bad core-plugs and I wanted to keep the cooling system pressure down a bit to save them.
But last winter when the heater didn't do much and the engine temp didn't even get over 140°F during my commutes, I decided to install a 180°F thermostat instead.

Or I thought so. Silly me I seemed to have forgotten I already had installed a 180°F stat the year before.
So I decided to just change the stat for another 180°F stat, hoping it would perform better in getting the engine upto temp...

I went from a stainless Stant thermostat to a copper Mr.Gasket thermostat from which I had a few used ones laying around.
But it turned out the Mr.Gasket thermostat flowed much more (larger opening even at shallow opening) and now the engine temp was stuck at 130°F during highway drives!

White engine sludge build-up was severe and pretty much no functioning heater in wintertime was no fun either.

Now that I have swapped engines, going from the 8.6:1cr 318ci, to a 11.3:1cr 360ci, and with a 160°F thermostat installed again, the 360ci still hangs around 150-170°F.
Only during warmer weather (80's F) the temp will climb to around 180°F when in heavy traffic.

The only 'problem' I have is my radiator is slowly disintergrating on the outside-front. This is the 2nd radiator in the car that does this.

The copper fins are turning fragile and almost turns to dust when touched. Perhaps the winter roadsalt is taking its toll on the copper of the radiator, or some other (dissimilar) metallic corosion is happening.

Not my field, but can you ground it to a sacrificial anode so the anode disappears and saves the copper?

I respray the radiator black again occassionally from the front to add a protective layer and slow down the corrosion.
Also been thinking of insulating the radiator from its support with rubber spacers and nylon washers under the boltheads.

I used to run plain tap-water with the 318 in the car because the engineblock would lose about 1 liter per week, but now I'm running normal green coolant again with the 360. Not sure if that would help/solve anything 'electrically or galvanic' for the radiator as the corrosion is on the outside.