Engine oil

It seems not to long ago there was a topic on this. I have used the search but can not seem to find it. People were telling about what they ran. I have a 440 blown engine and run solid lifters usually with additive. Just wondering what is good to use. Uncle needs to know for his car also he just got.

Thanks

Todd

I use Valvoline VR1 10x30 Wt. in my race motors now, I use to use Pennzoil 20/50WT racing but not anymore.
On your deal Valvoline VR1 10x30 should work very well, especially with medium valve spring pressures

Lot of Brad Penn used in these parts...

Hey Cab_: Could you elaborate on the change?
I have realized to some degree the hp loss with thicker oils.
do you think oils are just better and thus we dont need to be as thick as before?

When Shell Oil CO. bought Pennzoil they change the formula to make it better with some different additives, a friend of mine who crew chiefs a winning SCCA spec. car told me about it around 15 yrs ago.
Valvoline now has the exact same feel when rubbing it between my fingers and probably the exact same additives as Pennzoil used to make their race oil slicker with less resistance Valvoline VR oil is a lot easier for me to buy than Pennzoil racing oil also.
I have seen power gain by running hotter oils or thinner oils, hence using the 10W30Wt now versus the 20W50 WT oils
If Valvoline or Pennzoil offered a 5W10 racing oil I would use it
I use 5W20 WT Valvoline in all of my hot street motors with zinc additives, if needed for the cam and lifters. Same weight oil on street roller cam motors with no additives
I'm not completely sold on synthetic oils yet, maybe some day

This is a timely post for me. I have been running 20-50 VR-1 for a long time and my oil pressure was 80lbs hot. I have been trying some 10-30 while the weather is cold and I am not beating on the car as hard.

I believe that the 10-30 is a better choice for the engine. But since I have ran the 20-50 for years with no problems, I have been a bit hesitant to change.

But if it works for Cab, I'm in.

In my race engines usually use Valvoline vr-1, street cars with older cast iron engines I use shell rotella. I am going to try some amsoil in my street car after reading this log post from another forum.

http://speedtalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=28365

http://speedtalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=36565

Go to www.Bobistheoilguy.com 👍👍👍

Brad Penn for the bracket cars and street cars for me. The Heads up car uses Driven, by Joe Gibbs.

10-30 Brad Penn user here with a zinc additive because I have a solid lifter cam in my small block.

What are your bearing clearances?

I use Valvoline VR-1 in all our cars. 10w30 or 20w50 depending on which particular engine.

Regular Valvoline 10x30 syn. or Mobile-1 syn. and a Isky solid roller w/2.5+ on the rods and 3.3+ on the mains and hold good pressure and bearings look great after my 7-8 year tear downs...........

I am about to put in a large Amsoil order for car, boat and harley. Amsoil is giving me 25% off + free shipping. I use the Dominator oil in the car.

I've decided to just buy a 55-gallon drum of fish oil. Oil is oil, right?

We ran Valvoline 10w30 racing oil for years. Switched to Amsoil and saw a big difference in the appearance of the parts when we did our winter freshen and in the trash coming out of the filter, which we looked at after every weekend-even with the oil restricted to the cam and the top end. Also went from changing oil every dozen runs to every 50 or so, based on the appearance and smell of the oil.

With the Amsoil, we tried different weights from 10w30 to 0w20. The oil pressure with the water thin stuff got to be a little concerning, so we settled on 10w30, rather than tighten up the clearances. Clearances and internal leaks have to be adjusted and/or fixed depending on which weight oil you are using.

I think my message would be oil is not oil. Looks to me that some has more additives than others and pass testing with higher marks as well.

I use Joe Gibbs 10W40 in my street/strip car but I just checked Summit's site and it looks like it went up to $9.49 a quart.

My message is that the majority of oil discussions on here turn into big stinkin' piles of opinions without any empirical data to back them up.

Oil, religion, politics... possibly The Big Three of things which can never be discussed objectively.

I'll wait and see where this goes before I decide step back in here again.

LAT racing oil is what I run in the motor trans and and rear end

http://rehermorrison.com/tech-talk-98-oil-is-everything/

I think this guy is a pretty smart fellow...

What the heck do you want for proof Brad. You know the guys that race and the guys that don’t.

Some people swear by brad penn... I know of at least three people using it, where the cams went flat.
What works great for some, will not work great for all.

Nothing wrong with Bradd Penn. I have used it many times when low on funds. I have also used valvoline vr1, good stuff, but i get the Bradd Penn for $5/qt. When funds are good i use Amsoil. Im not a racer, but engines dont get babied either and i will not buy the cheapest oil at the corner store.

You should know as well as anyone that just because someone races doesn't mean they know squat about oil... or carb tuning... or engine maintenance... or ... well, you get my point.

I'd be more interested in hearing from engine builders than engine abusers on a subject like this.

One "d" in "Brad"

OK, back to my hole while the rest of y'all hash this out (again...)

I moved on to Driven (Joe Gibbs) oil. Lost 2 hydraulic flat tapped cams with Valvoline VR-1.

I have used them all Valvoline, Joe Gibbs, Brad Penn, Torco, Amsoil and LAT.
This is my ranking:
1.) Joe Gibbs
2.) LAT
the rest are tied and all good oils.

Flat tappet cams are a tuff deal. I recommend hyd rollers anytime I'm asked to do a flat tappet. It's always about the cost but in the long run one flat cam and the hyd roller pays for it's self.

No offence to anyone but if you have to put a additive in your oil it's not the right oil.

Well, I was about to move to the 10w30 VR-1 until I read that. Guess I'll stay with the 20w50 that I have been running for years. Is this a case of 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it'?

I have been using 20w-50 VR-1 and a small bottle of ZDDP+ that I buy on ebay on every oil change on my 440 solid flat trappet cam engine, and just VR1 20W-50 in my Hemi with a roller cam.

I guess I will continue to use that unless, someone tells me of something better?

Mark

Read the interesting linc and that guy knows a thing or two. Think i'll stay with the 20/50 as well.

With the all the flat tappet cams going flat could some of it be from to much spring pressures and not necessarily oil???

Redline Oil here. Elixir of the Gods!

I look at it this way. I build all my own engines and have for many many years. I have also been a Brad Penn (Kendal) user for those same 40 plus years. Oil as we know it has changed over the years and so has the quality of the metals used in our cams and lifters. Now throw into the mix I run alcohol and we all know the issues with that. (water moisture). Now with the 650 lift solid lifter cam and higher spring pressures that I run adding a bottle of additive and EDM lifters is cheap insurance. I have no issues running my engine for 3 years between engine freshen jobs. Wrong oil? I don't think so but what do I know. Hopefully when I freshen my small block next time I will grind my R3 block so I can run roller lifters and I will sleep even better at night.

15-40 Delo 400

What oil should i run?

Clean oil.

by the looks of the car on your post I would say clean oil would not be necessary

I'm surprised that no one has mentioned Schaeffer's Racing oil. I know most on here are either drag race or street/strip guys, but round trackers swear by it. A lot of these racers are limited to flat tappet cams (no rollers). I also know a bunch of large engine drag racers that use it with great success

Brian

Schaeffers make some excellent gear lube for transfer cases and drag race rear ends
The only problem I know of with the drag race gear oil it is 250 Wt. Which means you need run the car on jack stands for 2 to 5 minutes to warm it up before pulling into the lanes to race
My Son in Law use to work for a ski resort in SO CA maintaining all their track vehicles, they used Shaeffer brand lubes only in all of their vehicles from the general managers SUV to all the big snow cats, he was amazed that none of their lubes would not mix with the water(from condensation) in the snow cat transfer cases or engine oil, the water would drain out first and then the oil or lube would follow
I wish I knew of a west coast distributor that I could buy their products from up here in central Oregon

I wish I knew of a west coast distributor that I could buy their products from up here in central Oregon help grin



Amazon is loaded with it and will deliver right to your door.

You’d get along with my ex. She didn’t like it either.
That pic was taken the day i got the car out of her house after a lengthily inprisionment
It has clean oil then and now. Sae 30 wt. as has every older Mopar engine I have owned.

just a silly answer for a silly question carry on

Here's some quantitative information: https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/1387987/1.html

Skip to page 7 for more exact numbers. No analytic technique is more accurate than NAA.

ZDDP #s don't tell the whole story; an oil can have high ZDDP levels and still not be a great oil.

here is one that can be discussed for a while...
https://540ratblog.wordpress.com/2013/06/20/motor-oil-wear-test-ranking/

Oh, Gawd... not 540rat, again.

I can tell you there's a lot of Manufacturers that think if a little bit of additive is good more is better. It's almost become who can add the most wins.. a lot of these products compromise ring seal.. and horsepower comes from ring seal..

LMAO...............

Thanks guys for the info. I need to change the oil in my car and was going to use the standard 20-50 I been using with Lucas ZDDP additive to it. I was told that since it is a detergent oil and adding the additive would cancel it out or not work that well. That is why was asking. I do push the car hard on the street so I do not want any issues. I was figuring Brad Penn or the Joe Gibbs oil or the diesel style oils. Figure diesels get worked hard but I know they changed the formula on those too and do not rev like the cars do. Still not ready to make the plunge into synthetics. I like Dinosaur oils but I know oils have come a long ways. Now the oil I just looked at picking up for my truck says Conventional/synthetic blend on it. Just seems odd to add the two together.

Forgot to add that I am running over 60 or higher psi when cold and running around 40 when warm. If I drive it this weekend depending on weather I can give exact on the psi numbers but it seems that is where it is normally when I glance down at the gauge.

A Cummins is 18to1 compression with 25 psi on top. That's why I run diesel oil in everything.😛

To all you guys that must put an additive in your oil. Do you read the tests where putting in the additive reduces the quality of the lubrication? How do you know you mixing combination is improving or degrading the lube? Why not just use a top performing oil in his tests?

Good call! My 5.9 has had nothing but Delo400 and I've seen 40lbs. of boost at times. 300,000 miles of pure bliss! Changed every 2-3K for the first 100,000 miles, every 5K since. Usually a Mopar filter but I have used Napa Gold and K&N.

True, other factors (detergents, etc.) also determine the quality of an oil. But ZDDP numbers are typically what people argue about. More ZDDP isn't always better. ZDDP concentrations over about 1800 ppm can actually do harm.

I am no oil expert, by any means. But aren't all non pure synthetic oils a synthetic blend? I mean, even petroleum based oil is not straight out of the ground. It has additives. And those additives are man-made; which means synthetic.

So, every bottle of oil on the shelf (except the pure synthetics) is some sort of petroleum and synthetic "blend".

I personally, have never seen a definition of how much synthetic additives it takes to be able to be labeled "synthetic", "semi-synthetic", or "blend" or whatever.

Does anyone here know?

Yep, and that might be considered the tip of the iceberg:
- base stocks, especially for synthetics
- HTHS (High Temp / High Shear) ratings
- where a specific oil's "cold" and "hot" viscosities fall w/in the industry standard ranges
- if molybdenum is present, and the lifespan of the copper deactivator included to offset moly's corrosive effect on copper bearings
- and other criteria of which I'm sure are important, but of which I'm ignorant

Too many legit variables, too many opinions vs facts, lots of conficting personal experiences w/ the same products...

I DO have some pretty specific likes & dislikes for oil brands and components. However, expressing my OPINIONS (even if based on facts/research I've found) won't do anything here but add to the static (used as a noun, not an adjective).

Lots of good oil on the market today and just like car wax we all have our favorite and reason for using it. I almost switched from Brad Penn several years ago because of running alcohol but instead of doing that I Researched what I could do differently. In my case I needed a lean out valve and as soon as my pass was over I now turn both my fan and electric water pump off so I build heat up going to my pit spot. Millions of quarts of Walmart oil sold every day and unless they started doing it yesterday Walmart has never produced a single quart of oil.

it seems that more often than not anymore, the better engine shops recommend Driven. instead of trying to figure out what i should be adding to me oil i just started using 15-50 driven hotrod oil in my street cars. the cost difference between that and something else with a bottle of additive just isnt that much.

This topic always gets the most attention on here and many other sites
Sitting at a screen sifting through chemical test and numbers --ugh!!

I have built a LOT of engines for decades now--I have raced for over 30 years
I have worked in engine shops most of my life and so i have seen a lot more than the average guy

What I have learned

Different applications require( or do better) with certain oils
Like super stockers running 0w20 or alky cars liking 20w50 or like nitro cars using 70 wt
This is why makers like Driven have twenty plus different oils

You get that part right then go with what you can source easily--what you can afford---I run alky/nitro mix and change oil a LOT so I am forced to use an oil I can afford that still works and it is not a "boutique" oil

I have used the highest spring pressures I have ever run on a flat tappet and used Amsoil-- was just amazing when lifters and cam lobes were inspected--the best I have ever seen Period

I have run Valvoline race oils for years and again--zero issues ever

I know the driven products are probably the most advanced products on the market each designed for specific applications with exactly what that
application needs

I have had excellent results with Brad Penn and with alky it is fantastic

Amalie line up is some of the most used on the NHRA trail and fantastic with exotic fuels and...they offer an easy to get on "plan" for any racer to have oil shipped directly to your home or delivered at any NHRA event--These guys make good stuff and support racers of any level not with free but with real discounts

I race with another alky dragster guy that runs the Walmart brand cheapo stuff in a pretty darn fast car with zero cooling and guess what?? His bearings and parts look fine and keep on keeping on

I think if you have oil in an engine you are good--if you run a flat tappet you need an oil with some ZDDP or else I truly think this is the one deal where you must run some Known good stuff that has been proven

I also think that on street and bracket stuff who really cares that you loose a few HP with a 20w50 that proves again and again that it works in most anything

and....Lucas is making a 30 wt and a 20w50 high zinc break in oil that has been working great for us lately and is cheaper than all the others so

Yeah too many opinions and too many oils to choose from.

This is what I run in almost everything https://www.penriteoil.com.au/products/fuels/racing

HPR30 20/60

Did you know its now Driven - by Comp Cams...

You didn't say whether either engine has a flat-tappet cam and that's very important. This thread like others before it has lots of people stating their favorite oil without saying they're using a roller cam. Unless someone states that the oil they recommend was used with a flat tappet cam assume it wasn't.
Be very careful with the Valvoline oils. You'll find lots of posts saying they use "VR-1" but Valvoline puts VR-1 on the label of just about everything they make. I'm pretty sure the marketing wanks at valvoline wear VR-1 underwear at all times. If you want to run your flat tappet cam with Valvoline oil be sure to get the RACING version.

I agree, i use to run a roller cam in the 408 and i think most oil brands would work just find in that app. I now use a flat tappet in the 511 with 145/410# open pressure and use either Brad Penn or Amsoil just for the piece of mind. Also, because my oil tends to run hot i use the 20/50.

I now run JR1 Racing Oil JR 4.0 5/20W full synthetic. I began running it in my 5.7l G3 Hemi super stocker and then ‘snuck’ up on running it in my supercharged 354 stocker motor.

I have run many oils over my 37 years in all my various Mopar based race engines and sometimes wondered if there was a big difference as long as you stuck with a top quality synthetic with decent additives. In the case of this JR1, it consistently made 7-12 HP more on dyno pulls across the power band and after having made more than 20 passes with the supercharged 354, BES tore the motor down and called me to say I was lying ... it didn’t look Iike I’d made more than a couple passes. It’s good stuff and the cheapest horsepower I’ve found yet.

Oil, schmoil, your Stocker Drag Pak is bada$$!

I don't, unless you are talking about an OEM hydraulic roller. A stout solid roller still needs a better oil than typical passenger car stuff. Others won't agree with me, but they're not paying for my engines, either.

Is this post still going. It must be a slippery subject

Thats what some say, but i have not really seen that proven yet. I agree with the last part. On the other hand, I would never run $3.50/qt oil in any thing but the lawn mower.

The 1st number is what you get when you start the car, it contributes to cranking speed. It's not relevant if you live on Mercury or Venus, otherwise I'm guessing that your air temperature is below 180 degrees.
A missing (no ?W) or high 1st number (20W & up) is inverse to how many seconds it takes before the last bearing gets oil. Fewer seconds is better.
If you use "straight" 30 weight (W is winter, not weight) I suggest you follow the procedure they used in 1916 aircraft: heat the oil over a stove, and add it to the engine just before you start it.
Really modern engines can live with 0W and 5W, we can't. Don't.

Over the decades, many smart people (Norton Player team, Gene Berg) re-discovered than running asphalt in the pan breaks things faster than the original viscosity.

Car is solid flat tappet lifters.