Need some criticism on a build

I have a 440 bored out .30.
A 505 stroker with a 4.250 crankshaft
6700 rods
forged flat top pistons
internal balanced
Performer RPM 440 88cc Cylinder Heads
Dual plane PERFORMER RPM 440 intake
Holley 850 carb
XE295HL Comp cam
10" Converter 3000-3400 Stall
8.75 rear with 3.55 gears

What would you do different to this build. It being a stroker motor doesnt feel like i'm getting the most out of it.

Have you run it yet?

If so, what does it not do that you'd like it to do better?

With mild gearing and stall, there isn't a lot you can do and not lose some of the street friendly nature of a build like that.

The one thing I wouldn't have done is used the open chamber heads with flat top pistons.

Nothing like trying to inhale thru a tiny straw with a dual plane intake and small carb...

Even with a mild cam, I would be running a 950 carb on an open plenum intake. That will double the air flow the engine gets right there.

Shorten the timing curve to get as much initial timing as possible with a quick advance.

Whose rotating kit is it? Know what the compression is with those 88cc heads?

I just built a 400 based 512 with Edelbrock 84cc heads. Compression came out to 10.5 and used an Edelbrock Torquer 383 intake (single plane). If I'm missing any low end torque because of it I sure don't miss it.

Big engine small head. Should have built a 440 with those heads and intake.

Biggest mistake was the Open chamber heads with the flat top pistons, losing all quench benefits. Could of had the same comp with .060 gaskets and quench. Other then that maybe more stall, but Don't really know your overall intentions for the combo. I'm thinking strong torque street build with some occasional track time.

i had an RPM intake and 850 carb on my 526.
switched to an M1, and a 1000cfm quick fuel carb. car was good before for a 4,600lb tank, but after the swap, it's an animal.
change the intake and carb.

Our mild, street, all cast iron, 526RB in a heavy steel B-body went 6.94 this year in the 1/8th....On pump gas!

I don't see anything wrong with that combo unless you're building a race car. Should be a nice strong street engine. If you want to add some power then step up to a hyd roller cam with more lift in the next upgrade.

If it is a driver that sees a lot of miles I'd ditch the double pumper and put on a Holley Sniper system. It will run a better and the engine will last longer.

Its okay imo. If it were mine I'd go closed chamber heads with zero deck piston with the right piston dish for about 10.5 CR.

I'd maybe consider a little less cam, or maybe more carb/intake. But this is picking the fly sh** from the pepper, and easy changes once you get it running to get it to match your objectives.

My question is what everyone else is asking and thats why the open chamber heads ? Do you know the real comp ratio ? And you wont have good quench either. I dont know the specs of that cam off the top of my head but the rest of the combo is not to far from mine. But I use EZ heads and have 10.6 comp with quench and mine runs fine on 92 pump. I use more gear with 4.30's and a 30" tall tire and I may gear down as I dont think it needs that much to run the same et. I run a 9.5 Dynamic street/strip type converter that flashes about 4200 and works good at the track but drives around like a normal converter. I also run a dual plane intake but I use the Indy dual plane which has pretty good size ports and runners and I run a 850 Holley DP. I agree with others that mine may go faster with more carb but it dont run to bad with the 850 and has great street manners with it. But you need to know what your real comp is to start with ? Ron

Right after I'm verifying 0 deck and milling the heads to 79 cc.

If it doesn't come up to your expectaions the first thing I would check is your ignition curve, Stroker BBM's with street compression ratios tend to like a fair amount of initial timing combined with a limited/shortened centrifugal advance that's all in by around 2600-2800, timing can make a huge difference in performance. Several Times I've seen guys who never really built strokers before get them running with 10-12 degrees and they start and idle "fine" but the power and torque just isn't there when they drive them....Fix the timing and "BAM"! instant stroker happiness.

Back before we had all the closed chamber head choices Diamond and I think KB used to sell pistons with a "qunch step" so technically is had a flat dome that would take up a good portion of the open chamber. I built a really nice running 508" RB with some well ported Stage V's that ran really strong with a mild Hydraulic roller. That beast is still out there somewhere, I need to check with Paul PHJ426 to see where it's at.

Was there any work at all done to the heads? With strokers picking up the mid lift flows (particularly the .250-.450 numbers) really helps the torque and HP curve above the torque peak. As I remember the OOTB edelbrocks aren't really "killer" at .400 lift but they are easy to improve with skilled bowl/runner work like you can get from Dwayne Porter. just getting from 260 cfm to 280 at ~.450 lift will really wake up a strokers power curve. And combined with a better/more consistent (than delivered OOTB) valve job helps the snap and response and can act like a bit more agressive cam profile with no downside.

The pistons are obviously not going to help you (just something for readers to keep in mind) but possibly swapping your heads for a closed chamber like these new TF 240's and either port the RPM or swap it for a Holley Street Dominator with a little port and mainly plenum work would likely help out immensely. A custom calibrated 950HP or 1000HP 4150 base carb would help the breathing up top, as said with a dual plane each bank is effectivly limited to seeing only 1/2 the carb so the combination of a small runner/port with a small-ish carb puts restrictions in series which makes matters worse.

See where your curve is first, try running something like 16-20 degrees initial and limiting total (initial plus centrifugal) advance to 34-36, I'll bet that will make a difference. On paper your motor should run strong.

I was one of those guys. All I had built up to that point was stock stroke small blocks. I tried what I knew and 14 degrees initial. Ran like crap. Settled at 24 degrees initial with a total of 34 all in at around 3200. Absolutely fries the 285 Nittos. I could probably bring it in sooner still. More tuning for Spring.

After reading all the responses I guess the first thing is to get rid of the 88cc heads and get some closed chambered heads.
I always thought that this motor never lived up to the expectations I had for a Stroker Motor and something was missing.
So a recap is:
Change the heads
Change the intake to a single plane
Change carb to a 950?
Thanks for all the responses. I really do appreciate it

Single biggest bang for the buck is the intake....Swap it, and jet the carb up and shorten your timing curve. A small carb really only hurts the top end. With the right squirters and jets, you can gain a bunch on the low end with what you have. An 850 will not have the size squirters or enough jet in it for that engine. We run #45's front and rear in all our stroker carbs once we get enough initial timing in them. #37 is the smallest we have run, and they are always lean that way.

Heck, we have been switching them lately to 50cc accel pumps front and rear just to get enough fuel shot in these engines. THATS when we really see the 60fts come down...But don't tell Thumper...

Shortening the timing curve varies depending on distributor, but the more initial timing, say idle around 22* and total in by 2500, the more fuel it will take in, and the snappier it will be. You will have to tinker to get this. We have used MSD and Firecore distributors, and both work well. Also, we have found ours like a lot of total timing. Not sure why, but my big 512RB had to have 38* total or it was .15 slower...

A 505 should be a beast! Our 512's are really nasty for a simple RB stroker. They idle well, and just fry the daylights out of a set of tires or slicks, let alone what they run on the track.

You gots to learn what it wants....read the plugs, put a wide band on it, try jet changes, tinker with timing....

So your saying the intake should be changed and leave the heads on it?

Guess that I missed that it is already running.

Without some track data it is hard to distinguish between something wrong verses adjusting the combo. What is you cylinder pressure, and fuel pressure at WOT?

Okay, so we are recommending going to a closed chamber head of 78-84 cc's and potentially bumping the compression to somewhere's around 11.4-12.1?

I did the math before suggesting going to flat tops. going from a 88 cc head to a 84 cc head with a .060 gasket nets the same exact comp of around 11.1

He asked for criticism on the build, that's one of the things I would of done differently. I also asked what his main intentions for the build would be and didn't get a answer. the combo as it should be torque running sob.

Sorry, I must have missed that. My intentions are to have a street machine but would hit the strip once in awhile. As it is right now, the only way I can run it on the street is put Turbo Blue race fuel in it so it won’t tick when hitting the gas. I thought maybe timing was the issue but I have that locked out at 36*. I had a small block 340 in the car before this went in and I guess I was expecting a little more from the 505. It just seems something is not matched with the rest of the recipe. Hope that makes sense.

Ouch, what we have here is a gunnysack full of cats.

The engine hasn't been though out well during the design process. Some of the cats in that sack are nice cats, but they ain't gonna play well in the sack.

From the last post, there is no way I'm gonna lock the distributor at 36 degrees with a cam that small. Where is the cam timed at and what is the cranking compression? What elevation are you at? (Never mind, elevation 935') Bad tuning with the compression, the wrong pistons and wrong cylinder heads, is my guess.

This is where I’m at as well.
Without dyno data and/or track data it’s hard to say if the car/motor is actually under performing, or if your expectations for what you built were a little high.

I’ve had a few motors come into the shop where the owner thought they wanted “more” than what they had.
My first step is to dyno the motor as is(if it hasn’t been done previously), to see if it’s doing what it “should”.
Then after the rework, it gets dynoed again.

Looks good to me. It really does not matter what other people have to say about your build. You will know if your happy with the engine once it’s on the road an property tuned. If your not, you will make a few changes and you will learn from your mistakes or you will move on.

Ok, with this said, the combo as is should be Plenty mean enough. Somethings wrong with your tune etc.

I remember when I first swapped out my 318 for a mild built 440. The first drive wasn't very impressive, had a hard time even spinning the tires off the line, but it did have a 3.23 gear.

Turned out the carb was pig rich, after figuring that out and getting a better timing curve. Waaaay different animal, could burn the tires at will.

My point, I think what you have as built now should blow your socks off after you get it running right. I agree that your locked timing at 36* is way to much with pump gas and open chamber heads at 11.1 comp

My ride runs about the same between 28 to 34* timing. Not going any higher if I don't have to. If your Pinging, you better back her down Now!

Detonation occurs even before you hear it, and with pinging your hearing it. id be checking my cranking psi, jetting and reduce that timing. I'm guessing you may be lean since your pinging, along with the locked in timing. If this is going to be mostly a street car, you need to get Rid of the locked out timing. Especially with your lower stall vert.

I think the RPM intake is fine, but I would put a spacer on it and move up to a Bigger carb when you get a chance.. It would of been Much better if you would of started with the closed chamber heads as that would of Helped to resist detonation with your 11.1 comp vs your open chamber heads. But I think you can work with the heads you have.

I don’t see a problem with the build for a torque monster street motor. I would not change the heads since you already have them. If you want more power start with head porting. That will give you the most gain with what you have.
Next I’d throw a victor intake on it. If you still want more after all of that throw in a solid roller cam.
You’re combo isn’t perfect but it can still be made to work really well with the parts you already have.

I just bought some 84cc heads so I might as well change them. As far as the intake, I’m getting different suggestions as far as a Victor, M1 or a Street dominator.

For "power", the TF intake would likely be best....... Not the most grunt...... Likely wont fit under the hood.

Another option....... A little out there........ Have the heads opened to MW size, run the MP 337 intake.

Without trying to sound like a smart azz and at the risk of repeating myself, have you've confirmed that the motor is making the 530 hp that it should now? The car should go sideways from a 40 mph roll in second gear, and run a high 11 et at probably 118 mph in full street trim. If you don't confirm where you are at, I'm afraid that you are spending good money after bad. Its about way more than the sum of the parts, and your parts are not that far off, IMO.

Secondly, now that we know your cylinder pressure is good, I don't think the 84 cc heads will help, again, IMO

Third, with that XEHL cam there is a good chance that the lifters are about done at 5500 anyways. So I suspect that the actual improvement from an intake swap will not be fully realized, and certainly not enough to "feel" a lot better. Again, IMO

Finally, if everything is perfect now and it runs as it should and does not meet your expectations, then to make a meaningful change will take a lot more than the heads you purchased and intake, again, IMO.

Where did you see the Cylinder psi posted? I agree, as I posted, if the heads are on and built he can use them. But, I see where he already bought the 84cc closed chamber heads, so I guess hes set on changing them. That will help with detonation/quench..

differant intake-single plane
differant carb-1050 quickfuel
lower gear-3.73, or 4.10