A little science project [[[ updated]]]]

Working on both side of the motor

I guess you could say in and out

What r u up to now Shiloh?

Judging by the shoe comparison, I would guess 10 inch wide collectors. LOL
Thanks for sharing and yes, I know they are on a table.
But is the O2 sensor bung in the correct spot?
I thought they were supposed to be half way back in the collector?
Just asking to learn a little more.
MERRY CHRISTMAS.

Well I run a 9.6 deck block.. and the 420 intake is for a low deck so I've had to use spacers to make it work.. I cut it in half and shipped it to Brett Miller.. he's going to stretch it I think close to 5/8 of an inch.. it will make the plenum larger in the runner shorter... the idea behind the collector is it has a 3-inch pinch. Versus the 2.5 that I'm running right now.. trying to find a happy medium between acceleration and mph

I've heard that the merge type collectors are good and others say no good
I have seen ET and MPH gains at the track by changing collector length and primary pipe lengths, what are your thoughts and findings?

Well going from a 2.5 pinch to a 4'open collector I seen a 12 horsepower increase on the dyno.. which was a significant find more than any other single change that we made including from small carburetor to Big carburetor.. but the smaller collector accelerates the car so much faster it actually provides a better time slip. Now keep in mind this is on a fairly heavy two speed small block.. mph is definitely down with the smaller collector

Isn't it amazing what the motor does on the dyno with changes compared to what it does in the car at the track and the different results.
Did you test jet changes to go both leaner and fatter with the smaller collectors?
Your car and your results are great
Keep testing

I think what most people miss with collectors is the actual effect that it has on the carburetor.. you could easily need a four or five jet increase or decrease with different collectors.. and what provides more power on the dino isn't always the fastest way down the track

You be correct on that one

What we're looking at is finding the happy medium.. Greg thought the collector he built before was a little small for what we're trying to do now.. Greg is also the one that chose where to put the bung these collectors are very short and so I think if you moved the bung towards the rear it may pull in clean air.. I will say that there's a possibility with a converter change and gear change I could take advantage of the larger collector.. but some of these science projects can become expensive

It likes the smaller tubes on the primaries to
give you more torque in the lower RPMs due to
the trans... I cut one of those intakes in half
to fit a engine.. it was for testing

A three speed would probably help the big collector accelerate as fast or faster than the pinch collector but...as you know it's hard to control all that low gear, especially if you are running leaf springs (which, IIRC you are) so at some point you have to do what you are doing.


As I've always said, if it makes more power in the dyno it SHOULD go faster in the car. Gearing, converter, suspension and shocks can all make an engine with more power go slower.

Intake stretch 2.0.. it made the trip safe and sound and is now in the fixture..

the way it used to look with the adapter... this stretch will let the motor see the booster better..

Engine development.1o1

Now Brett will work his magic.. with this process we enlarge the plenum and shorten the runner..

Bad ass right there.........

That's going to turn out awesome, be interesting to see how the engine response to it.

Almost All mods Lengthen the runner on the plenum floor for best results on a single plane like that. Yours will want that too. Huge plenum short runners equals slow port velocity. Bad for fuel atomization and cylinder fill.

Lengthen runner on the floor would be the worst thing you could do on an engine like this.

Maybe on low RPM stuff that could work I just don't have that answer I don't really work with low RPM stuff.

The stuff I am doing with this intake is not a guess at what will work I have a bunch of dyno and track data with intakes for high HP high RPM wedge head engines.

Hey Brett, could you clear out your inbox....

Im Speech less..

#2

This going to be nice improvement

Did some one mention. RPM. Sorry shift light not on yet

That's well done

I think that intake would love to be dry on
a injected engine..I did the same intake the
same way.. cut it in half to do the porting
and welded it back together... being dry it
made more torque

This is a legal intake for my class rules. .

I turned my W-9 up that high a few times trying
to find more power.. it wasnt up there.. I
found on my set up that 8200-8400 was the best
EDIT
I will say I had the wrong cam in it.. could
have made at least another 100hp with a cam swap

"Cast"

Looks pretty good to me, and resembles most cast intakes used for heads up NA racing. Well until you make it a cast tunnel ram anyway We went through the same evolution to get to where we are at now as well. As for runner lengths and plenum size its all application specific. I'm sure if you saw what we have you would say it is junk and will never work

Im missing the pic of a dominator carb cut into two Just kidding,its obvious what you are doing here.
Love to see people that actualy try things and not just talk

Here is one of the earlier versions on the Vette, runners now are much shorter and plenum is much larger. Carb is a larger than a 4500 flange as well

NICE work Brett! This is just one project that showcases your abilities.

OK ,from the pics you didn't shorten the runners at all. You just added plenum. I thought that when you ssaid you would be shortening the runners, that you were going to remove/shorten those four walls dividing the runners. You Didn't and that's good. you left the runners as is. If you would of cut those out and shortend them, That's where the mistake would of been. But you Didn't, alls well.

the runner length was shortened by 1/2 in because I was running spacers before..

L I have looked at the motor many times at the track and didn't notice until right now .. it looks like you guys are running a spacers.. by the looks of that package no one would ever guess it runs 8.0s. In a full body full interior car..

I don't know how much Bretts buddy charges for some of these weld jobs but boy can that guy lay down some weld. He must have one heck of a welding machine.

Bretts weave welding skills are at a MAD level for sure...

Shiloh yes we have used spacer because of the tall deck height of the block. Only one cast intake is made for those heads and not meant for the tall deck. The spacers will be gone this coming year as the deck height is changing significantly. You saw the current intake earlier this year. It is getting more changes again. The carb adapter is not gone as well now as it is part of the intake, we still run the shear plate and its adjustable length cones.

Quit screwing with Ryan's stuff and get your car done!

My car is done The engine just needs more power..About to give up on this whole Mopar NA deal and get one of those wide valve cover deals. One more trip to the dyno and we shall see. If I could only get .50 cents on the dollar for the Mopar it would have a new home..Or we might just put it in the dragster and have some fun Besides playing with the little red car is a great challenge and brain buster. Hopefully we can break that next performance barrier this year!!

Just put the motor in the car and have fun.. the nmca West top Sportsman Champion had some spray on the Camaro.. then he brought it out to Barona and now holds the top dog belt for Fat Tire.. with the bracket car.. there's a lot of fun to be had

Now I will have to get to work and figure out a tapered spacer.. it will play nice with this whole setup

Looks good..Im sure it will show itself at the time slip booth

Wow, thats awesome!

The things we do to try to go quicker

No kidding..............lol

Please let me quantify that statement, " It is quite amazing what some of the things some dedicated racer will do to go faster"
Keep at it Shilo, your going down the correct path to win at what your doing

Thanks cab.. I value your opinion always.. we will continue to work at it..5.20s in a real full body car..

Our goal is to take it to all the power adder cars in Bakersfield. March 17th

Another great work Shiloh. I can't wait to see your car back to track with Brett modifications in manifold. Should run quicker for sure!

Well by the looks of things I will have the intake back on Friday.. I am extremely excited.. at the moment I'm torn whether I should pull the engine out of the car and head back to the dyno so we can sort out the carburetor collector and intake all at the same time.. those are three big changes I think I almost have to go back to the dyno

How do you make the intake look like cast over the welded sections? Do you use coarse sanding rolls?

I have no idea.. his work is amazing..

For sure!

Collectors looks awesome! When I look at your collectors and look back at mine, my collectors looks like a toy...

By the way, don't let Steve see any this pictures or He will hide scared..

Wheelabraid or specific media blasting return the intake to a "stock" look for those who don't know better.

My opinion head back tot he dyno. Have some carb things to sort out anyway and its the best place to do it.

Wheelabraid, totally forgot about that. Thanks

Always impressed with Brett's work. Your Dart is very impressive.

When I do cast aluminum mods or ah-humm "repairs", it is very important to first shape, then blast to look for any minor errors. If the part's shape is convincing, then I use a hand-held vibratory engraver to bounce over the altered, I mean REPAIRED area, and non repaired area to blend the surface finish. After that blast again. I'll post pics next time I do one of before/after.

Found a before/after of a GT40 lower I fixed for a friend.

Thank you for the compliments by the looks of your workmanship you do good work as well

It's hard to believe December 21st..I cut this intake manifold in half. It's been across the country and back.. and now it's back on the motor thank you very much Brett.. your work is amazing and second to none..

Thanks for the pics and the post. We’ll all be watching to see how much it picks you up. I also use the Big spacer-adapters on my w-8 as well. They’re kinda funky looking. Hope it all works out well

Amazing work.

Anxious to see what happens on the dyno but more importantly how the car accelerates at the track...

x2 on that one

I still think the big 2000 cfm carb is over kill and hurting performance at the track maybe not on the dyno but hopefully it gets tuned in better for ya..............

We have tried alot of carb set ups on the Vette. We started with a 4150!!! Unfortunately only one way to find out what works. Also you can stack spacer to the roof of the dyno and maybe make more power but velocity and efficiency especially down low may kill the cars ET. We have used 2.30, 2.40, 2.45, 2.50. Our issues with the larger carbs has been the deck height of the engine. Possibly with a shorter deck we could take more advantage of the bigger carbs. So far the 2.40 has been the fast one. But we have had probably 8 different booster packages and 4 different metering blocks in it as well. We will likely be trying the 2.45 again this year with the shorter deck and are expecting it to be faster. We will find out soon as the block is about done to shorten the deck height to closer to the other small block we run against. Those seem to be where the really big carbs shine.


I believe Shiloh and the Vette run the same cube engine 417?!?
Ultimately the dyno is a tool and you need to be able to interpret what the tool is telling you. Interpreting that data and applying it to the racecar on track are always the hard part.

419.9 now

Al if I could drag you out to the track.. and get you to give me some pointers & advise.. you could probably save me a couple years worth of headaches.. Miss steps and.. heartaches... and broken pieces.. there seems to be some interest growing for the naturally-aspirated Grudge racing on the West Coast.. I just don't know what it would take to get you out there.. especially on the counter of you live on the other side of the country currently

Al
The intake runner was to long with the spacers I did not shorten the runner of a 420 at all.

We just added Plenum Volume to a "420" And positioned carb boosters over each pair of runners better.

I think it will accelerate better but.... ever know🙃 Untill you try things.

Testing I have done shows this should be good improvement 👍🏻