Mopar RB 572 1000 HP Project 1970 Cuda

Hello i'm Raffa from Italy just bought now this Engine RB 572 with Indyheads 440-1 , i'm looking for assembly and install in my 70 Cuda ! if someone have advice for the oiling system and vacuum system ... i'm undecided if install single or dual line pump ...

Thanks in advance

Raffaele

Looks like some nice parts. I wonder why the porting work on the intake wasn’t finished

Yep , im looking also for buy 2 1/4 headers from TTI , now i have 2"

I think you need a dual line pickup for the power, rpm and engine size you are building. I just don't know if that oil pan will fit the bill.

A single line will work fine, but nothing wrong w/ going dual. The pan will be OK, as long as you have good oil drainback and don't flood the heads.

For a vacuum pump...Moroso, GZ, or Star make good pumps. Just DON'T use an Aerospace Components pump. Looks like you already have a Moroso pump.

i fear of dual line because i have stock solid engine mounts , not plate , i will send more pics of my single and dual line oiling , Thanks

ooook ! i have moroso pump and all hose but i dont know if fit with power steering , in my old 496 i used crankcase evac system for 10 years with good result .. but this can work on 572 ???

440-1 heads

Oil Pump two line

You'll just have to put it together and see what fits and what doesn't. Then you'll have to decide what to modify and what to leave alone. You are trying to cram 10 pounds of stuff into a 5 pound bag.

It really comes down to how hard you are going to drive the car. If you are racing it hard then you'll want to put the best oiling system on the engine even if you need to cut things up. If you are just cruising the car then use what fits.

YES RACE 20 PASS AT YEAR , AND DRIVE SOME TIME ON STREET , LOW RPM CRUISIN

Thanks for the advice
at the end of the week i will put the engine on stand and check all measures,clearances,everything .. i will decide for the lubrication , but i want a consistent engine , the problem is the mounts is factory and have power steering , like my older 496 with power steering and evac system i had made several pass at low 9 sec for 10 years

Single line Pump

I'm putting a pump gas 572 C.I. Hemi motor together for a local customer, it is going in a 1970 Challenger street and show cruiser. I'm using a eight quart aluminum road race type oil pan with a single line static pickup in it
I mounted the Milidon static pick up in the left rear corner of that pan, I'm using the older model cast aluminum Milidon oil pump with the front mounted cast in pick up boss. I blocked off the other two pick ups, one in the World block above the oil pump mounting boss and the other in the black billet Milidon pump cover, that cover is for the remote mounted oil filter
Are you going to restrict the oil to the rocker shafts? If not you should
I use a .040 restrictor made from a #6 brass set screw tapped into the oil line fitting in each Indy 440-1 head
Good luck on your deal, your car collection is impressive

My 572 runs a single line Indy max pump with the same pick-up you have (mine has one hole plugged). Over 500 passes at 7100, never hurt a bearing. .003 rod, .004 main clearance. Push rod oil with .050" restriction. It also runs a GZ vacuum pump. They have a nice product and great customer service.
Doug

ok Guys.. i had .040 restrictor on my 496 oiling hose .. very nice .. no problem .. i will check the room available and decide .if put singke or dual. i think this engine will run at 7200 rpm

looks like a fun project

what do you think of aluminium rod on street use some time ??

Aluminum rods these days are a much better quality than they used to be. Check with manufacturer as far as life expectancy, but I'm sure that they won't need replacing anytime too soon.

I'm guessing that acceleration is the only goal?
Because that pan (and almost any pan not specifically built for it) has very poor roll (lean to one side) and yaw ("fishtail") oil control. All the baffles, pickups, door etc. are designed to control oil motion in pitch ("hobby horse", wheelie) only.
This is the time to decide of you're going to road race it...

Test fit everything carefully. The cam to rod clearance could be an issue with a 4.5" stroke and Aluminum rods. Is that a raised cam core block?

4,5 stroke can fit a megablock with some mods.

i will try this tomorrow! this issue also in 4.5 stroke with World block ?? or only in stock block ?? this is 4.5 bore Mopar World Block

It's something to check. 1mm clearance is minimum. Check the cam clearance to rods, cam end play, and don't forget to set the cam end play to .008 or so, give or take a .002 That's thousandths of an Inch.

There is a lot to check on a motor like your building. I have a similar motor. Ask as many questions as you want. These guys all want to help. We ruffle each others feathers but it's mostly in fun. We all drive MoPar!

With the thick aluminum rods you should check clearance against the camlobes. I am bulding a Hemi with Mopar rods in a Megablock, and 4.625 stroke, and had to slightly grind on the driver side rods (Eagle steel) in most advanced cam postion to make sure a thick lobed roller cam did not interfere. Less problem with a flat tappet I also mocked up. Interference point is on the rods where the threads exit. That is also a stressed part, so I do not know how much you can grind away if needed.....I highly recommend you check this first, to see if the alu rods will fit.

Nothing wrong with aluminum rods on the street. Use a little tighter bearing clearance to allow for expansion and keep it cool. If the motor runs hot on the street, the oil pressure at idle will suffer and you could knock the rod bearings out of it.

Looks like a bunch of good parts. I would run a bigger pan, big motors will hold a bunch of oil in them at higher RPM. I ran a 12 qt pan. Good luck with the project!

One thing to add, to go along with the tighter rod clearance. Let the motor get up to temp before you drive. It's all about running the motor in the proper temperature range.

I ran BME 426 forgings in my Mega Block with 4.5" stroke, only slight clearancing. Similar to Al's pics above. Former owner ran a 292@.050", I run a 285"@.050" both fit w/o issue.
Doug

I had a gasket failure using that green gasket and oil pump filter plate! This was a common problem with that setup. There are only two bolts holding it on the pump and they are on one side. You can buy a one piece plate, or add a third bolt under the filter area. Best thing to do is to buy the one piece cover. Also do what you can to elimenate 90 degree fittings, especially on the intake side of the pump. Use the better 90 degree fittings made with tubing and a gentle curve if at all possible. Also very important to see if any of the fittings screw into anything far enough to restrict oil flow. I found that the one going through the pan into the swinging oil pickup was restricting the flow path on mine. Just shorten it and taper the entrance of the fitting. keep a very close eye on oil pressure . If you have problems with low pressure because of the oil pan you have, you can band aid it with an oil accumulater. I have to run over ten quarts of oil. I use thirteen with the accumulater.

Thank you very much for this info , i will check everything on oiling

wow , i will send my cam info Tomorrow !!

Thank you very much ! , now i have this questions ; in my old 496 i had used Total seal max seal zero gap rings .. no problem for several pass , i this engine i have JE pro seal gap rings , is good ? or is better zero gap rings ?? i will use 300-350 HP nitrous on this engine

OK i will check all rod , for now i have checked only cyl 1 rod and look like a good gap from rod to cam lobe , tomorrow i will check all rods .. Thanks !

ok ! good info .. right temperature ?? 190-200 F maximum ??

160-180ish deg is what I consider normal range. 190+ is too hot. I had over 100 lbs pressure at idle cold, under 20 lbs at idle at 210ish degrees and 30+ lbs of pressure at idle if temp was in the 180ish range. With a big pump the pressure will climb quickly with RPM even when hot, but I never like to see it under 20 lbs when its running.

I won't run the gapless rings again, ever That was a marketing ploy years ago that didn't work in drag racing or on a halfway serious street car either
There is power to be found with thinner ring packs with less tension on all three rings like a 1.5,1.5,3.0 MM or .043,.043., 1/16 ring packs, especially with a good vacuum pump

Looks like a runner. I hope it makes the power you expect.

Good luck from Kentucky

Looking Good Raffa !!!!

That is a very nice looking engine along with a nice looking garage and other toys in there.

Your engine compartment looks great but if you want a better looking upper radiator hose, look into the Dayco #71654.

Like how you did the exhaust.

Looks great! How about a start up video?

With a walk around

I want it with Surround Sound!

start up : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fhxbt35tJzg




surround : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JjYzvyoy2Q4

hello Guys ! i have some question on oil pressure ...

oil pressure is :

cold engine idle 1350 rpm 65 psi rev over 3000 85 psi

warm engine idle 1350 rpm 25 psi rev over 3000 55 psi

in my old 496 was at 75-80 psi also at warm engine at wot

Remember ... i have _Milodon billet oil pump with external single line and GRP aluminium rod with rod clearance .0019"

i have restrictor of .040 on heads with TD rockers , the gauge pointer at warm engine at wot make a vibration at 55 psi

oil weight is Valvoline 10w60 Racing

Raff, what size headers did you end up using and what weight is your Cuda? Do you know what those -1 Indy heads flow?
That car is beautiful!!
Thanks mike

2 1/4 headers , indy 440-1 flow is 365 cfm , weight is 3800 LB , with 496 old engine best ET was 9.2 ... my goal is 8.8 !!

i have some question on oil pressure ...

oil pressure is :

cold engine idle 1350 rpm 65 psi rev over 3000 85 psi

warm engine idle 1350 rpm 25 psi rev over 3000 55 psi

in my old 496 was at 75-80 psi also at warm engine at wot

Remember ... i have _Milodon billet oil pump with external single line and GRP aluminium rod with rod clearance .0019"

i have restrictor of .040 on heads with TD rockers , the gauge pointer at warm engine at wot make a vibration at 55 psi

oil weight is Valvoline 10w60 Racing

"with 496 old engine best ET was 9.2 ... my goal is 8.8 !! "


Raff Was the ET with the 496 on motor or with NOS?

Mike

55 lbs is enough,however I would think it would be higher too.

Relief spring adjustable?
How warm is warm temp. wise.?
Maybe try another oil filter just out of curiosity

9.2@150 mph with 496 indy 295 ported and 350 HP of nitrous with progressive controller , 727 with launch in 2nd 250 hp in 60ft and 350 after 2.5 sec

yes relief is adjustable with screw , warm temp is 180f, oil filter already changed

Raff,I hope your tranny is up to the task. When I went from our 493 to 572 we started to tear up the front planetary(multiple times).This is launching off of a brake at 4500 rpm. Got a little smarter and After a bunch of A&A parts we got it to hold together. Big motor= lots of torque!
My 572 with Alum rods oil pressure is 80 cold and after a pass is down to 28-30psi at about 160-180 temp. I do have an adjustable pressure spring and single oil line that has worked fine to 7000 for the past 8 years.
Mike

Hi ! Thanks for the info ! i have adjusted now the screw 2 turn and oil pressure at 180f is 40 at idle and 80 at over 3000... i think is good with aluminium billet pump and single External line , i have also a dual line kit....but very hard install with stock engine mounts ... this is my trans specs : billet steel front drum , 5 gear planetary front and rear front and rear solid bands Full Manual v body .. no trans brake ..billet pistons with 4.2 lever big aluminium oil pan 5500 converter

Dude! Thanks for the video! Good luck with the 8's!

Turn the bypass regulator spring pressure up so it has the same amount of oil pressure as you shift it at(IE 70 lbs at 7000 RPM, 80lbs at 8000 RPM) or max RPM in high gear
I don't think I'm brave enough to run that little amount of rod bearing to crankshaft clearances even with aluminum rods cold I like and use the old rule of .0010 for each one inch of rod journal diameter
In other words I would shoot for a minimum of .0024 for stock Mopar rod journal size of 2.375 and .0022 on BB Chevy rod journals. I have and like to use .0030 + oil clearances on my race motors with steel rods on either journal size with no problems at all, .0035+ on the mains AKA aside, when it comes to high RPM drag race motor looser on the bearing clearances is far better than a tiny bit to tight
IHTHs
That video looks just looks it was taken here in the U.S.
it must be very hard to duplicate that look over there
Does Italy still have high import duties on American made cars and car parts?
I was shock at what the Aussie and Fins have to pay for are cars and parts

Hello Man ! i have .0020 rod clearance with bbc bearing 743HN , i have .0020 main clearance , now i have adjusted the pressure at 40 at idle and 75 at wot with 180f , i have single line milodon billet bump and single 12AN external line ..... im undecided if convert in dual line , yes i have a Big Shop of American Cars in Italy , yes for import parts i pay 35% of tax duties at governement and also high shipping price , fuel Gasoline at 7 usd at Gallon , lot of american cars in Italy

I spent 9 months in Germany in 1968 in the Army, that assignment made me appreciate our country so much I can't say it in words
Most people born here do not realize how well most of us in this country have it
I have sold several of my old race cars to guys over seas, one is in Finland, one is in Sweden and one is missing in action on the sly
Dang the tax man anyways

Hi Guys... the incredible thing is that 572 engine run like stock engine , idle is very perfect , i think for Nitrous Camshaft specs ... is comp cams custom order

.050 duration 277-292
ADV duration 310-330
valve lift with 1.7 .834 .800
lobe sep 115 degree
installed at zero degree , piston to valve clearance was .160

compression ratio is 14:1

wit 100 octane no detonation when stop the engine

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4l3WVtTUkg8

Very nice! I'd be scared of running only 100 octane in that motor. My 14:1 Indy headed wedge motor likes being run on VP C12. On nitrous I'd be running at least C16.

C14 min. Don't ask me how I know... Engine sounds great though, bet it would idle a little lower than that...

Not to appear pedantic but I think Europe uses a different way to rate octane numbers. IIRC I think 100 octane Europe is equivalent to 107 (ish) Stateside. Still not enough IMHO though.

I wonder if you can legally buy and use any leaded race fuel in Europe now?

yep! i think 100 octane
is around 106/107 US Gasoline .. idle is around 1300 RPM

is possible buy racing Fuel in Italy ... 110 120 octane but price is very very very expensive .... around 5 USD at quart

Is it legal to buy and use that race fuel on the streets? Or is it only legal at race tracks?
Do you know how much of your fuel prices are for taxes?
I was stationed in Germany in 1967-68 and G.I could buy books of 200 liter fuel coupons books at Post Exchange for right at .21 cents a gallon for regular and .23 cents a gallon for the premium gasoline. That was a little bit more expensive than I was paying for the same brand of fuel in the states in California back then
The German citizens paid between .91 cents and 95 cents a gallon for the same amount of volume in liters at the same pump
We where told that G.I didn't have to pay the German fuel taxes per liter that the Germans did

Hard to work out how the engine gets enough air past them butterfly's at idle, almost look closed.

Nice job Raff, sound great .

As far as I know it is legal to run race fuel on the streets, at least in England. As long as the duty has been paid you're good to go. It is cost prohibitive though. Typically, at more recent exchange rates, it works out around $30.00 a US gallon.
I've never heard of anyone ever having petrol tested but Her Majesties Revenue and Customs (HMRC) do random road side checking for "red" diesel on a regular basis, red diesel is used for agricultural vehicles only and is exempt from fuel duty (tax).

Here in the U.S., thanks to our current environmental regulations, you can be fined up to $10,000.00 U.S. for using any leaded fuel on any public roads.
If the Feds, State, county or city authorities catch you using the red diesel fuel, which is exempt from road taxes here also , on the roads they can fine and or put you in jail for that also
Freedom my rear

I have never heard that about leaded or heard anybody EVER get their gasoline tested for lead. Glad I don't live in your state.

Same here - I do think they now label it for off road use but no one has ever checked that I know of.

The Euroepan 98/99 octane is about 93 octane US. European gas is rated as RON octane, while US is (RON + MON)/2.
Race gas is available, and it must be unleaded, we are using VP MS109 at the track and regular 95 in the street. Was a bit difficult to obtain MS109 in the states... The last barrell I bought cost 26.7$ a gallon. Dirt cheap!

Apologies to the OP for the Hijack, I usually use some 100LL avgas, I always thought this was MON rated only, and I always thought the ratings were the other way round (lower octane in the US). I guess everyday is a schoolday

The Fed EPA are the ones that made that regulation, not the states
I use to use Aviation 100/115 in my M.W. car on the street years ago (pre 1980), lots of people would comment on the sweet exhaust smell even back then All leaded fuel sold today has a distinct different smell from any unleaded pump swill sold today

Raffa...unless you go REALLY conservative on the timing and kill power, you're going to need better fuel. 14:1 needs at least 112 octane IMO. Add nitrous and you'll need more than that.
Like I said earlier, I'd be using VP C12 or C14 on motor only and at least VP C16 on the spray.

That may be true but I still stand by my statement. I have never heard of anybody getting their fuel checked.

Not all law enforcement agency enforce all the rules the same way, some of the CA CHP and CA county Sheriff officers are looking for any and all things to stick it to you in CA.
Especially if they don't like you
I can testify to that from being born and raised there

Hello Man ! yes .. from 10 years i use 100 octane for street use ( some time) and for race use with 350 spray.. i use 120 octane...im surprised by the old 496 with 12:1 when stop the engine was make lot of detonation with 100 octane... this 572 with 14:1 no detonation .. all time

How fast has it been?

Has been 9.22@150mph

is has a nice top end charge .

Hello guys .. first Race the last week end .. make 8 pass .. best time with 250 spray 9.6@149 only problem is bad 60 ft caused i think from converter ...engine dead at launch !