Locked Dizzy and starting ?

Hey Guys it's been a little while since I posted on here but here it goes. My small block 422 CI engine has always started and run fine at 34* timing locked down dizzy. I have noticed lately that it seemed to buck when trying to start like it had too much timing. Well long story short , At the track this weekend it started okay for the first pass but when I got back to the pits it was really hard to start. I borrowed a battery "too small" but it started again. Won my first round but when I got back to my pit it would not start. I charged my original battery and replaced the starter with a hi torque unit. By that time I had missed the call for second round so I finally got the car started and loaded it up. Brought it home and the next day I charged the battery with my big charger and it started but still bucked like the timing was too high. I backed the timing down to 20* and checked the wiring and it starts right up and seems to run fine. I am sure that is not enough timing though. Any ideas what I should look into to find out what happened ? I am kind of lost on this one ..

I'm thinking you didnt check the timing when it
was hard starting and I believe it moved on you
over time.. put it back to 34* and give it a
try and go from there.. the timing chain could
have stretched some also

Why do you have it locked? What is a dizzy? lol

Yea your going to have this problem with a locked distributor, unlock it and tune it like it should be and have a reliable car.

Locked distributor tells me someone does not know how to tune a motor.

With any high compression engine or one that has the timing locked you wire it so you can spin the engine THEN hit the ignition "on" separately
That is how all race cars should be wired--this will solve most issues with hard starting

This is how I had my car set up.. started great
all the time(that was at 38*)

Crabman 173 Thanks that is a good idea. I never really had a problem until lately that is what makes me go ???? My car isn't a high compression engine and it still has the factory wiring Street Car !! But I can give that a try and see what happens.
As far as tuning my car with a locked out distributor I have been doing it for years and never had a problem.

Msd sells a starter saver that pulls 20 degrees of timing time the engine starts .. I use one on the duster with a crank trigger .. don't know if that would be an option or not ???

Are you running a roller cam.. if so the intermediate
shaft could be worn a fair amount which causes slop and
timing issues

Cranking and then hitting ignition can be hard on gears. I turn on pump to fill bowls, then crank while pumping fuel for 5 seconds or so with out ignition, then turn on ignition and start. My engines usually only need this 1st start of the day and sometimes after sitting over an hour.
Easier on starter & ring gears.
It works for me!
BH

Hey thanks everybody for the ideas , I was thinking about the bronze gear also . It may be worn a little because I do run a roller cam and it has been in there for quite a while.

Thanks again for the info and advice. Damn I hate it when you over think everything. The Optima Battery just didn't have the cranking amperage anymore. I took the battery out of my Motor Home 825 CCA and put it in the car . Set my distributor to 34* and it starts fine again. Damn battery cost me a ton of worry. Oh well at least I know what it is..

My 470 BB starts fine at 12.1.1 comp locked at 36* unless the batteries get low from sitting a few weeks then a boost charge and it's fine and has been locked longer than I can remember.......... Starts the same weather I spin it first then hit the ign. or just crank it and I guess I'm not a good tuner since my dumb azz locked it out..........

What compression is the engine?I ran into a similar issue but it was ground problem

LOL Me too !!!!

Weak ass Optima Battery.. Cost me a few more passes at the track..

I run 2 Orbital gel batteries and one is from 07 and still rocks...........

How recent is centrifugal advance, in other words how far back do you need to go to buy a car with fixed advance?
Over 100 years.

We had to do this on the stock car (only 9-1 CR) as it was cranky when hot. Battery was in the trunk tho but the cables were 1/0 or 2/0 & a regular starter.

How do you wire one to turn over and the ignition switch ?

Correct me if I am wrong - locked out distributor - essentially the same as a crank trigger - no?
The biggest benefit to the crank trigger is you take the intermediate shaft slop between the cam and distributor out of the equation.
No scatter within the locked out distributor since the rotor and shaft are locked together.

As for starting - we always had a start switch and a run switch per the old Direction Connection instructions. Never any issues.

As for locked out distributors being used by people that can't tune - really - ?

Leaving out starter-kickback as solvable: what engine idles better with full advance than partial advance?
Engines that idle above 2,000 RPM.

You over simply - depends on trans type, if auto it depends on stall speed, what carburetor name, what camshaft, other factors. My race car idles at 1500 in or out of gear.
To make a blanket statement isn't accurate.

Do I believe a locked distributor is correct for all cars - absolutely not.
To criticize a guy for doing it and saying he doesn't know how to tune is not fair either.

1500 with light springs? The advance is just about all in anyway. Try 800, with a big roller, in gear at 18 degrees initial.

I've never had an issue cranking my 14.5:1 446" wedge or my 11:1 572" hemi w/ locked out timing. As long as your battery, starter, and the wiring b/t the 2 are good, you should be fine. Glad you found the issue!

Guess everyone running a crank trigger doesn't know how to tune a motor. LOL, gimme a break.

What engine idles worse with full advance at idle? Even my stock lo-po 440 idled great with full advance at 700rpm idle when I tried it just for fun.

most racers spin it over and hit the ignition

Thanks again guy's , I have been racing a long ass time but never thought of the ignition cutoff switch. Duhh LOL . I installed a manual MSD switch this afternoon and it works great. Damn toggle switches all over my car but it works great. I really think the main issue was the battery. It is funny how it still holds 12.7 volts but you can tell it is weak spinning my engine over. I put another high amp battery in it and it spins over great. Everything wears out I guess !!

off topic. I love my orbital however they are no longer being made. 😨

A seperate normally closed switch in series with the ign (blue/yellow ECU main feed wire works for this). Press it to disable the ign/crank with the key/let your thumb off of it while still cranking.

I heard you can get em on line but never checked......

15-1 572, crank trigger at 32 degrees. Cranks with ignition on, starts instantly. Same factory starter for 550 passes.
Doug