Sb stroker kit?

Hey guys. Has anybody used a scat 408 kit. I am gonna be using some w2 heads and want the cubic inches. They were on a different 408 and made 640 hp. I don't want to get as crazy, but don't want to kill it right away. It will be used in my pro street satellite, mostly street, but some 1/8 mile passes. Thanks guys.

Why not just buy one of Rod Bloomers kit very nice stuff and at a great price

I bought the Scat 98112bi from Summit in early December, received it in mid January. I'm still in the process of assembly. The one I got is a cast crank kit. I thought it was pretty nice setup, my only complaint is the bearings supplied with it. It took 3 sets of damaged main bearings to come up with one good set, then the clearances on the rod and main bearings were too tight( .0015in) on both. I am still trying to alleviate that situation. Otherwise it's a pretty nice kit for the money. Good luck with your build.

Does Rod Bloomer/BPE have a web page/part list? BPE search just comes up Bouchillion Performance.

I have read more than just a few owners being very happy with the Scat 4.00 stroke kit. From mild torque monsters to some heavy hitters like that 600+ hp mill you mentioned.
I have not yet gotten there.

scottb, no offense sir but how does answering his question with a question that doesn't answer his question actually help him other than to cast doubt on his plans/ideas?
While your question suggests Rods kits are good, equal or better than the Scat kits, it still doesn't answer his question.

How good Rods kits are, are not in question or up for debate.

Rob C.
Have you ever seen a Bloomer 4.125 kit compared to a Scat 4.00 kit?
Have you ever raced both engines?

I have, and I would seriously ask anyone preparing to buy a Scat kit, the same question scottb. did.

If the extra money is a deal breaker, by all means buy the Scat, but the difference between a cast crank with big rod journals and I beam rods, compared to the Bloomer kit, which is lighter, fits easier due to the smaller rod journal, features CompStar H beam rods, Racetec pistons, and provides even more inches...it's a no brainer to me.

People try and cheap out on the most important stuff. Why buy a cheap cast crank?
Wait and get good stuff and do it right the first time. Its great advice scottb gave.
Billy is absolutely correct

http://www.bloomerperformance.com/

His website basically gives you his phone number and e-mail.

I looked at his kits at the ICH Swap this spring. I will be buying one when I start on my stroker project. Very nice looking stuff and reasonably priced for "drop in" kits.

I build a fair amount of 408/416 combos, and what no one mentions here, is the cost to balance the cast 4" cranks. You start getting within striking range of the steel cranks.Most often, your going to need at least one slug of heavy metal in each end. I have NO problem with Scatter cast cranks, but just something to consider.

I'll check into some of the other stuff.

Compare question answer;

As in hold touch machine for, no.
Read about observe, yes.

Race question answer; That is self evident & the answer is above.

My question to is, why did you "Assume" so much of the thread starters question? It is a shame you didn't stop to think. You may not want to jump the gun next time and ask yourself what you just read and ask the thread starter some questions before assuming.

Things like, does he have the kit?
Does the kit have a cast or forged crank since they can come with ether crank. You assumed a cast crank. No where did he say that. You assumed that.

You state Rods kit gives you more cubic inches. Does the thread starter "Want more" cubic inches?
You said it is a no brainer for you. Does that mean anybody that doesn't want extra cubic inches is dumb?
Is there a problem with Scats equippment that I'm unaware of where it fails after 550hp?

Your suggesting that he spend more money on better equipment. While I support the notion of using the best equipment available, and I really mean it, purchase the best of what ever you get, IF you can, BUT some of us that actually live in the real world and don't frivolously spend others peoples money via the internet have a wallet to contend with.

Perhaps! You could chip in a few bucks for the thread starter for Rods kit for him just incase he needs the extra power one day.

Sermon over.

I agree except he never said anything about a cast crank.
Purchasing the best equipment for yourself should be done if the wallet allows or if you have the time to save for it. As in no time table to build the engine.

I have read many of your posts over a long period of time. If you could, enlighten us to the balancing costs and such for a cast crank stroker engine vs a forged set up, pros and cons, sane power limits of such parts etc....
Much appreciated!

OF COURSE! Time/Cost is releative
This location, among a host of other things.

Your right. It was the guy right under his post who bought the cast crank scat deal.
That said, that would tighten up even more what little price difference there is over a kit from Rod...... and he has just 4.0 stroke cranks as well.
Scottb brought up the 4.125 kit because he just built a motor for a buddy of ours utilizing that kit in a 360 block. He was extremely impressed with the quality of the components.
Car runs very nicely it was installed in( pump gas deal)

I did say my kit which I put the part number for was a cast crank deal, however I purchased it already balanced from Scat for about $200 extra over the base kit. That brought the total price to just over $1500. Before I purchased my kit I contacted Rod to see if he had anything in the same price range and he didn't but he was great to deal with. As Rob C mentioned some people's wallets are not bottomless and even the $1500 was a stretch for mine

I have a beautiful block, really decent heads, all the valvetrain, pushrods, a new timing chain, an intake for the w2s, a set of headers, and a small block bellhousing. So I figured I could build a small block right now to get my car driving. I already need a crank and pistons, with what the heads are capable of, I should get good rods. I would like to know what kit is the best bang for the buck. I don't mind spending a little more to get more. But I am no millionaire.

Rob,
I will continue to assume, jump the gun, and give advice. You know why...because this is a thread! A thread in which the OP is an active participant, so he can provide more info or ask other questions as he sees fit.



Not dumb, ignorant. Big difference. If you and all your friends build 4" stroke combos and no one builds a 4.125 or 4.250 deal, how are you supposed to know you need more. The first time I went full throttle in 3rd gear on the street from a 30 mile an hour roll, I KNEW I'd never go back! Instant, gratifying , smile producing torque...it's a beautiful thing.



Yes, yes there is, and I'm surprised, considering how observant you are that you are unaware. Granted, My caviat is the assumption we are talking about the less expensive CAST CRANK kits. The crank eventually breaks. The harder and more often you race it, the quicker it will happen.



Rob,
My brothers and I have built many cars for other people, and we've never spent a dime frivolously, when it's not our money. I live in the real world, I have a 1100 square foot house with a carport, and drive 10 year old paid off cars, so I can spend my money on Hot Rods. That is a life choice I made over thirty years ago, and I've never regretted it once. All the advice I give is first hand, and I'm telling you as plainly as I can, A BPE 428 short block is miles better than a 408/416, especially in a street car.

This is similar to the same debate with big blocks, where everyone is quickly moving away from the 4.15 stroke stock rod bearing to the 4.25 stroke 2.20 bearing combo.

It was a good sermon, I appreciate your concern. I will continue to make assumptions, and get my hand slapped.

Billy is absolutely correct on a man never being able to have to much torque in his play toy
Along with never having to much traction, money, zex, common since and a lot of other things we all need a lot of along with luck

sorry Billy.... loved our 4" armed W5 mill. also love our 4" in the R3 Either way I'm also in agreement that "IF" you are going through the trouble to do a stroker, you must want something in return and that something is likely more power. Go for the forged crank of your choice.

fwiw the iron head 360 we kick to the curb and then throw back in the car when our fun stuff breaks USED to have a cast 360 crank. Last time it was freshened there were a couple of cracks our machinist was concerned about. It served us well, but now there is a forged crank in it. Only a high 10 combo so not too hard on stuff.

So the fact that this is a thread allows you to be OK with assuming?
Assume - Ass (out of) U (&) me. Please leave me out of it.
You assumed cast crank. I assumed nether. If you needed more info, then ask the thread starter. Don't wait. It's your prerogative to continue to assume if you wish.

On the reply of needing or not more stroke, how do you know we need more? We're now ignorant because of what we're happy with? LMAO! Now who is ignorant with assumptions.
Really dude!

Moving on......

What's wrong with the Scat cranks? Links that read available?
No cast crank links please since there not of any concern or part of the topic beside the assuming. I was never talking about them.

What does your house have to do with the asked question of the thread starter.
Stop patting yourself on the back. Really!?!?! Bragging about a 1100sq/ft house?

You are certainly "Some kind of Special" so I leave this to you since I haven no experience with this "Special" you have and do not want to get beat over the head with your long winding road of experience.

Thanks a ton.

Moparts rocks in many ways but its an odd little community as is the mopar world in general.



If you look at other sites, like speedtalk, even the bullet and fabo, and many others they are helpful to get a look at things concerning builds from a much broader perspective then from the 10 or 15 of us that post here.

Not saying anyone one here is wrong but in fact are some are very knowledgeable in some ways but we all tend to think our way is the best/only way.

Rob C,
You missed the humor in my post.
You missed the sarcasm in my post.
You drug out the old cliches.
Thanks, now I know what I'm dealing with, so explaining that smaller rod journals make for an easier installation and a lighter rotating assembly would be a complete waste of time on you, hopefully not the OP.


Let me dumb it down, just for you. If you REALLY want a fast car, you will find a way, even if that includes living below your means. If you aren't willing to spend 700 bucks on a superior product, you're in the wrong hobby/sport period.

LOL, to try and get this thread back on topic...What is the difference in the BPE 428 stroker kit and the otherwise "standard" 408-416 kit? I have a 360 LA block sitting in the corner catching dust and may be in the market for a stroker kit soon. Also, as long as we are talking stroker, does a 5.9 magnum block make for a better stroker block?

The Scat kit, which is over 2K from Summit, has 2.125 rod journals, and features a 6.123 I beam rod with a 2.125 big end and .984 small end.

The Bloomer kit, (I paid 2306 4 year ago), has 2.00 rod journals, and features a 6.200 H beam CompStar rod with a 2.000 big end and 9.27 small end.

The smaller, longer rod, and smaller journals fit in the block easier, allows for a lighter piston (custom built to Your specs.), and a lighter rotating assembly. Even if the cubic inches and torque output were identical, the Bloomer kit is a better value, and a better product. The cubic inches and torque curve are not the same.

Cool, thanks Billy, as to my other question, if any, are there cost/strength/durability, etc, differences between the LA 360 block and the 5.9 block?

For the 400-500 difference, that is a no brainer.
Lighter, and those compstar rods are sweet. I ran them in my W5 motor for years.

It is hard to detect humor and nearly impossible for sarcasm. If that were such, then perhaps a smiley face afterwards would help.
What old cliches?
Actually, you haven't the slightest clue who or what your dealing with or the knowledge, years of experiences ... But you do expose yourself well. After all, it is obvious you know everything.

Would you still care to answer me questions or are you just going to continue to evade them?
Don't bother to dumb it down for me but for certainly for new guys to the field would benefit from simple explanations.

The amount of money spent of a superior product is of no worry to me at all. BUT it may be an issue to someone else who can not afford the higher ticket price. Via your line of thinking (the incredibly thin veiled insult towards me.) Many people should give up there cars because there wallets aren't as deep as yours. People who run, hot rod or race a /6, 273, 318 or 360 engine should hang it up because they don't meet your level of Financial commitment? By not stroking the engine to your level? Of what you think is good and should be done?

Who died and made you GOD?!?!

Your statement is probably the biggest turn off for people in the hobby, looking to get into the hobby, and stay in it. It says if you don't spend the extra money that "I, MoparBilly deems as mandatory for a real good engine worthy of speech without being belittled, stay home and sell the mopar!

It says don't talk to me about your ridiculous and pathetic engine.
It says don't talk to me about your ridiculous and pathetic paycheck.
Is it don't talk to me because you're ridiculous and pathetic because you're not on my wavelength.

And throughout this whole you still can't answer the simple questions that were asked to you. All you're doing is throwing [censored] to see what sticks. I have been with you, nothing is going to stick. If you don't have what it takes to make something stick.

And after all of this you still haven't helped the original thread question. Just cast doubt. It seems that is all your good for in this thread.

Whatever Billy, whatever...

The Philosophy of building stroker engines:

0. Increasing the stroke is nearly always the most optimum way to increase engine size, in terms of cubic inches per dollar.

2. One strokes an engine to increase torque. Torque is what we seek for that "planted in the seat" feeling.

3. As we admit we're building the stroker for more torque, we remember Chuck Senatore's words,"Build the biggest shortblock you can afford." This makes sense. Why limit yourself in your effort to increase torque? Why not build the largest shortblock that you can afford, that has acceptable durability?

4. Bloomer recognized that the LA motor has enough room in it for larger stroke, if you decrease size of rod journals. NASCAR engine builders are making 900+ hp from 355 engines running at 9000rpm, for two hours straight, and they're doing it with 1.889 or 1.850" rod journal. So skipping down to a smaller rod journal on a street engine makes sense. The 2.00" early SBC journal isn't very small, really, and there are a million bearings available for it.

5. So if you cannot afford the 4.125 or 4.250 stroke, build what you can afford, probably the 4.000 stroke. Sometimes that extra $400 IS impossible to get. There's always tomorrow!

R.

Rods kit are less money then the 4 inch stuff out there all his parts are top of the line products to me its a win win deal

You folks are not remembering the op said mostly street and really imo many overbuild but it is a good argument on the balance costs of some.

Ive got both a 4.125 motor and a 4.250 motor, the 4.250 in a race block which brings up the oem block block part with that crank and good heads.

My 4.125 is a K1 and the 4.250 is a older dragon slayer I think.

Isnt rods kits a knockoff of the K1 crank, ect. not that it matters Ive never heard anyone hurt one. But there are many good companies that produce stroker kits.

I myself think its far more important to get the proper parts for the application as well as good machine work and stay away from known parts that fail.

Oddly my worst stroker kit was a K1, like I got seconds all across the board and they sent the crank out to pittsburg crankshaft for balance and it was wrong.

Just as odd, my street racer at the track runs 6.04s with a old eagle forged kit, h beams, cheaper bolts and pro comp heads but in a race block and all test fitted by a really good machinist out of Atlanta.

But really one a real tight budget the 13-$1400 balanced scat kit is really nice for 550hp and under.

The main thing is to make it as fun overall as possible, the day things start to suck things just go down hill from there.

A really well matched 4 inch cookie cutter is plenty for many in a street car. Harder to hook good with a 4.250 build.

But it was noted that the cylinder head being used "had" gone 640hp.... now are we to believe the op wants settle for less? ....or are we trying to meet/beat that goal? A lot of this reminds me of my first RB stroker. Hindsite being what it is I should have scraped some more coin together and just did it right the first time.

How many off the shelf pistons are there for a W2 head? If you're looking at a custom deal anyways you may still have the extra cubes at an affordable level.

They were on a different 408 and made 640 hp.

Yep my mistake, da, thanks!

Pretty sure Rod carries the ' cookie cutter" 4 inch arm kit as well, not just 4.125 and 4.250 kits.

Good questions and notation Jbody.

From the author;

"They were on a different 408 and made 640 hp. I don't want to get as crazy, but don't want to kill it right away. It will be used in my pro street satellite, mostly street, but some 1/8 mile passes"

This, to me, suggests the use of forged rotating parts would be the route to travel.

Food for thought & consideration, as well as a question. What was previous HP level in what size engine you drive how long ago in what car? Equipped with what size cam, trans, stall, gear, tire size?

This answer would paint a picture of what was. Helpful info?
Possibly.

Then there is the important question of;

Where do you want to go with this 400+ cubic inch W2 headed build?
What power level? If you can put a finger on it that is.....
500, 525, 550 hp?
Or how fast ET wise you want to travel at!
This maybe the toughest question for some to answer, for others, EZ as pie.
Knowing the cars equipment, trans gear suspension etc.... would help a lot.
When all this info is in, well the idea can come together a lot quicker.

From what I am hearing here.. he wants to use
this for a street car and want to run some
1/8 mile stuff... if this is true in a heavy
B-body he WOULD like the long arm stroker
stuff but at that weight he will need all the
help he can get to be quick.. my SB was making
625HP in a light car.. I ran low 9s.. when I
built the 405CI W-9 I only added a few more HP
but ended up running high 8s.. the big thing was
it ran the numbers all the time.. again.. a light
car.. yes they are plenty of guys that make more
HP but I really didnt need it to run what I did

Jay,
4 inch arm in a race car...certainly, and you have the heads to flow at whatever RPM you choose to make power at. Street car is where the longer arm really shines.

Rob C.
You are embarrassing yourself really, but by all means if that makes you feel better, go ahead.

I posted an invoice, If you carefully read that invoice, you will realize that Rod Bloomer's kit includes a custom Racetec piston. Bore, ring pack, how far in the hole, dish, valve reliefs ect. To fit YOUR needs. Name a cookie cutter 4" kit that does this and show me the price. The forged crank Scat kits from Summit are $2036. Oh, that's right, YOU determined , "How good Rods kits are, are not in question or up for debate."

Who died and left me god??? I'm not the guy who has tried to moderate this thread and tell everyone else what they can and cannot post from the fifth post on. That would be you. Other than telling people what they can and should post you have not added a single amount of pertinent info at all.

You state that you can't figure out my humor or sarcasm without imojis, then you try to interpret my statements about a short block as an attempt to belittle others? That's a stretch, even for you.

The fact that you think I'm the "deep pockets" guy on here is laughable, and shows you know nothing about me. I've ran simple, budget friendly combo's since day 1.


Rapidus,
I have no experience with the magnum blocks, other than the one that went 239 K in my truck.

The last car I had together was a 73 dart with a well built, but basic 440. It probably made an honest 500 hp but not much more. The torque was great, and as stated earlier, that's what feels good on the road. I have no real crazy goals of speed. If I ran it in the quarter in street trim I'd be very happy to be anywhere in the 11s. This engine will eventually be replaced with a big block turbo build. I was guessing forged internals but wasn't sure. Knowing that 550 hp is the limit on the scat crank, really solidifies it for me. I don't mind spending the extra money because I'd rather not wipe my butt twice.

My W2 416 is 10:1 with a 4" Eagle crank. It has a big roller in it and if I didn't already have that 4" crank I think a 4.125 would have been better for it for all the reasons Billy mentioned.

I haven't used a BPE kit but they would for sure be on my list of vendors if I were to do another rotating assembly. I do not know what Molnar offers for rotating assemblies but I do know his customer service is good. We have his Rods in the 416 and they are a nice piece.

Actually, I thought you were doing a terrific job on yourself.
Assume
Throwing crap to see if it stoics
Self boasting on off topic matters



There you go again, assuming my needs and what I said about Rod's stuff.
I in no way shape or form said anything about Rods kit except;
"How good Rods kits are, are not in question or up for debate."
Because there is nothing to argue about. I have spoke with Rod and like what he has.
I see this is more crap throwing to see if it sticks.



Never tried to moderate the thread and the proof is in the reading. And the COMPREHENSION of what is read. Not the twisting of words and meanings to defend ones poor position and lack of understanding to cover themselves.
Throwing more crap to see if it sticks?


Considering tisis just simply text, yes! It would take a while to figure out someones humor, sarcasm, etc...
Your belittlement statement is self standing. You saidit yourself. Something like;
"If you can't afford the better part, you shouldn't be doing this or not in the game...find some other hobby..."
Paraphrasing here....


You said you have deep pockets via your life choices and the examples are the tiny 1100sq/ft house and a old car that is paid off. HEY! That is you, not me, but!, since you think that is great, well more power to you. I'm not shaming you. You do that very well all by yourself.

WOW! You sure like to play with crap in your hands and enjoy throwing it. Must suck for you throwing it and have it not stick. Your just left with stinky crap covered hand with some splttered on your face from throwing it.

I'm sure you'll be back in another attempt at crap throwing on me. Go wash your hands. It may help your waning aim.

While your washing your hands, did you ever come up with an answer to the questions? You know the ones at the top! Before you lost your mind and started the senseless ranting in defense of a comment that was never directed at you.

OH! Thanks for being a productive member and helper to the thread starters question.

JAY! Who's kit/stuff did you use?

Billy, why didn't you chastise Jay for not using the bigger arm? It's good for Jay in a racing but not OK for the street?

Did he just type that out loud????

Kevin

Is this elementary school? This childishness needs to stop. Stay on subject or go away.

YUP! He ranted about how you should build the biggest small block as you can/possible and ragged on me for what he percives as "Other thoughts" on the matter.
I think Jay does a fine job myself. Billy onthe other hand....just wants to throw crap and see what sticks.
I personally don't care what you build for the street or track. Your car, your way! If you want to have fun thrashing a 318 or a 600+ cubes, have at it. It doesn't matter to me. Just so long as your having fun with it.

According to Billy, if you can't afford the money on the biggest engine possible, your wasting time and shouldn't be in the game. Go back and read it yourself! It's there unless he did an edit.



I'd like to stay on topic and help. Billy just wants to rag on. I agree, we should stick to the topic. Billy can not.


But lets stay on the actual topic of the original question asked. I'm all for it.
IMO, key words highlighted.

"Hey guys. Has anybody used a scat 408 kit. I am gonna be using some w2 heads and want the cubic inches. They were on a different 408 and made 640 hp. I don't want to get as crazy, but don't want to kill it right away. It will be used in my pro street satellite, mostly street, but some 1/8 mile passes. Thanks guys."

So what is the answer on the Scat kit?
None has answered that. AND, what exact kit is in question? BUT everyone has said make the move to bigger. The move to bigger is one I am not arguing. But that didn't answer the original question now did it?

AGAIN, most important part of the reply is highlighted. Which is;
"I have a beautiful block, really decent heads, all the valvetrain, pushrods, a new timing chain, an intake for the w2s, a set of headers, and a small block bellhousing. So I figured I could build a small block right now to get my car driving. I already need a crank and pistons, with what the heads are capable of, I should get good rods. I would like to know what kit is the best bang for the buck. I don't mind spending a little more to get more. But I am no millionaire."

HERE! This suggests to me that a stroker kit of more than a 4.00 arm should be recommended. I have spoke with Rod a while back. This is his contact info for anybody here that doesn't have it. Hope it is still correct.


Bloomer Performance Engineering LLC
32210 Redfield Street
Niles , MI 49120

Ph. (574) 340-5470
Fax. (574) 272-0807


NOW! IF you ask me, and I have not been asked what would I do in the case of wanting a larger than 4.00 arm crank, just re-read the contact info above again.

What I am still waiting for is the answer to the original question.
Also some stupid reply by Billy, which I'm sure it'll be a do-sey! Again.
Crossing my fingers on a "No reply" from him.

Because Billy is right.... I've got a trailer queen 1/4 mile car although mild for what it is. It's designed to go hopefully going 100's of rounds with very little babysitting. Would I like to hit drag week with it and see how it would hold up? Sure!! Who wouldn't! ....but I bet I'd be bringing valve springs along. . Billy jumps in his car, drives it about anywhere, and goes 10's with ease and 9's on the juice. For the most part he keeps things pretty simple and actually his current small block is one of the "higher tech" pieces I've seen him do. Lots of thought went into the combo and I think the OP would be tickled pink with something close in performance.

Kit? Not really. 1st stock block deal was an Eagle crank and 6.123 rod. I could have purchased those parts anywhere, but went with Muscle Motors "assuming" (throwing this threads favorite catch word around again) they would send me a good one.... sent it back as it was basically a good core. They did find one that measured up better and sent it to me.

Current mill we went with a Molnar crankshaft with GM size pin and a 6" rod to mate to some custom pistons. These parts were really nice and fit well. Current deck is a 9.2 if your wondering about the short rod. I'd alway recommend Molnar, but probably a little more $$ than the OP needs to spend..... but I do think he needs to spend enough to get over that "value menu" cast crank package. I know, he didn't say cast crank, but when your sniffed for parts you always see the price first.