Anybody run a 1050 4150?

I decided to run a 4150 carb on my combo for more street ability. Has anybody ran one of the 1050/4150 carbs against a smaller carb or a dominator? Do they make good power? I'm sure a dommy would make more top end hp but how much am I leaving on the table?

Running huge carbs seems to be all the rage these days, so I won't even try and talk you out of it.

I'll just say that my one experience with one...... A qft-q1050......On a roller cammed, Indy headed 572....... was good.
It made a few more hp than a Mighty Demon 850.

Did a 1050 annular for a friend and his SB Chevy made 620 peak w/the annular and only 6 more peak w/Pettis's house 1050 dommy FWIW but I think it is a 3-circuit and a 2 would be better on this combo and most for that matter.........

I have a nice QF 1050-AN carb that makes good power. It gives up a little bit to the Dominator but some of that could be due to the intake manifold. Are you going to run an adapter on your M1 4500 or are you going to switch intake manifolds?

Have you run the Dominator yet? That was a three circuit correct? It will be a lot more streetable if you just plug the intermediate circuit and run it as a two circuit. The intermediate circuit doesn't work on a street car since it goes super rich at part throttle.

If you plug the intermediate circuit and get the Dominator jetted correctly it will run on the street. Use a power valve and lean out the main jets. You'll also want to run plenty of ignition advance. If you do that the Dominator should work okay.

I ran a 1050 AN on my 511 on a tm6. Pretty much mirrored the performance of my six pack using a 4412 center. I was able to dial the 1050 in to run really great at cruise and actually get better mileage than the six pack. Both setups ran 10.90's through mufflers at 4000# race weight. I really like my 1050.

Andy I'm currently running the m1 4500 that I got from you but it's up for sale. I am running a 750 Holley with adapter until the new carb shows up.

Fwiw, whenever I dynoed anything with the 4150/4500 adapter "upside down", the results were never great.

Fast68,
That is good to know thank you. I was curious about that. I plan to get a victor or trick flow Intake, but have a old tm6 that would work for now as well.

I had a Prosystems 1000 with the metering blocks and squirters setup like a 1050, and it was awesome. And against a 1050 4500 Thumper carb, it was .08 slower in ET and almost 2mph slower overall. I would highly recommend the newer 1050 model he has and a Thumper tune or I can give you mine. Do not do annular 1050 4150.

I ordered the pro form 67305 which is down leg boosters 1050. I don't know what the actual cfm is. I hope it's close ootb like my last pro form carburetor.

Unless its a blowthrough.

My CNC Edelbrock Victor MW headed 511 low deck made 750hp with a 4150 QuickFuel 1050AN. I didn't test it with a Dominator or our tunnel ram because we were focused on the nitrous stuff.

I'm very curious to see what it does with t-ram and two 1050AN's. The solid roller that Mr. Jones specced was for heavy, small tire stick street/strip ala Dragweek car with the t-ram. It wasn't optimized for nitrous however we did use hellfire rings.

To be honest I was kin d of disappointed, the 511 sounds like a 509 cammed 440 lol.

I'm with ya there although I never tested it personally, I've seen some guys say it works but my logic sez how could it.........These were NOS guys but still, a clean n/a signal and tune equates to a clean NOS pass all things being equal...........

I run a 4150 style carb since I don't have intake gaskets for my 4500 intake.... and I don't want to ruin the ones that are presently on it. Have plenty of fun going 9.4's 9.5's....

A few like 3 or 30?

While I don't have experience with 4500 carbs, I recently went from a downleg 830 to an annular 1000 HP 4150. Right out of the box with only jetting and idle mixture adjustments, my 451 ran noticably crisper on the street with better throttle response and gained 2 tenths at the track.

It's notable that I changed the fuel delivery system at the same time, going from 5/16 to 1/2 line, and adding an auxiliary electric pump.

CLASSIC Jay

I run a 4150 with a BLP BX4 main body on 434, BLP said it was 1050-1100 cfm.

It was about 5hp.

.028" in Venturi diameter is only going to get you so much.

BLP has an "interesting" way of flow-testing their carburetors: "Carburetors are Dry Air Flow tested at 20.4” on a SuperFlow SF-1200 FlowCom flow bench using a 2” open hole spacer."

Ever look at their flow ratings for significantly different carb sizes? Straight from their web site:
- "750" 4150 w/ 1.405" Venturi 1.688" = 1030 CFM
- "850" 4150 w/ 1.590" Venturi 1.750" = 1060 CFM
- "950" 4150 w/ 1.405" Venturi 1.750" = 1060 CFM

I suspect when you flow test carbs on a 2" open spacer that you're going to see less sensitivity to venturi & throttle size changes. If they were tested where the actual flow exiting the carburetor was isolated & measured (i.e., not dumped into a 2"-tall plenum first), the differences would be more apparent, and the max flow #s wouldn't be as high, either.

Based on what opinion or experiences?

My fixture flows carb bodies one barrel at a time..... Which isn't really correct either........ But unless you have a 1200cfm bench...... You do what ya gotta do.

For an approximate wet flow number, I take the dry flow and use .92 of that.

Flowing one barrel at a time, and using the 92% number, an original Holley HP950 (1.375 x 1.750) flows about 860cfm.
Traditional Holley 650's, 750's, 850's(with the chokes) come out pretty close to their respective ratings when tested that way.
The same cannot be said for most of what I'll call the "new design" carbs.

The guy that bought my PS1000 had an annular carb on his. Mine was over a 1/10 quicker. He wouldn't give it back after testing it. The annular is on my shelf here if your interested in it...it's a nice QF...

One data point from some guy with a car that went faster when changing carbs isn't very convincing argument. The annular boosters will pick up a lot of low end torque in a big carb. Your buddy might have lost torque by switching to your carb and since his chassis wasn't very good he ended up going faster.

Thanks, but I have carbs & carb parts coming out my a$$ right now already.

Low end is what he was lacking....If you only have 30cc pumps, you will not catch my PS1000....I had a pair of 50cc pumps and #45 squirters front and rear. He went faster everywhere with mine. MPH picked up, 60ft picked up a bunch, and midrange picked up. Once he bolted mine on, he ended up with traction problems! 60ft went from a 1.58 to a spinning 1.51...He bought new slicks, and he is almost in the 1.49's now..And we are in the heat of the season.

So that is my data point, but we know why that carb worked, and I would buy another with my jetting in a heart beat. We tested it on three engines, it was always the fastest carb.

well to be honest... I don't think the 4500 I have will perform as well as the carb in use. I put an adapter on my 4150 intake and ran our dominator and it actually slowed at Barona. ALSO... the 4500 intake I have was welded up and adapted with not much porting in the plenum area and the port size shape is still that of the craftsman based mill it came off. I will play with it as is with a port match one day. Until then....we'll continue with what we got.

Totally agree, because the best tuned carb on a manifold that is less than desirable in terms of efficiency can be and is slower as you found out......

Thanks for the reply.
I have a Mighty Demon 850 anuular.
(Throttle Bore 1.75 inch Venturii Size 1.560 inch)
The 337 manifold is ported, no room for a 4500 adapter.
Doesn't seem worth the time or expense to pick up 5 hp.

On my 470 the QF 1050-AN (annular boosters) worked much better than the Holley 850 and 950 that I tried. The 950 was converted to annular boosters which improved it significantly, but the QF 1050 was still the best carb.

However, this is just dyno testing where we run the engine from 5000 to 7000. The carbs could behave differently on the street or the track. On the dyno we don't really have a way to test "driveability" issues.

My point finally strikes gold............. a 5000-7000 dyno pull in no way even touches on street drive-ability or low speed manners just like the one you sold Brad I tested. Couldn't even do a burnout no joke but after working the idle, transition and cruise, it's drive able.......And personally hearing about 4150's on Big blocks especially making even 500+ deserves a Dommy especially a 572 like someone mentioned..........CRAZY and leaving a LOT on the table no matter what you heard or read..........PROVEN every day........

My test was downleg vs downleg.

And, fwiw...... I've been testing for, and sorting out driveability issues on the dyno for 27 years.

The dyno can be used for a lot more that wot testing.

I agree that a dyno is a great initial tuning tool but not to be confused w/real track testing and results for a race car/street/strip car that sees idle,transition and low speed driving. I was just hammering home what Andy admitted to about a limited upper rpm dyno run and peak numbers many shoot for but then in the car/truck, problems arise. I respect the testing you, Andy and others do in the name of power and durability and separating fact from fiction so we all can make better choices the first time. I spend hundreds and hundreds of dollars on fuel, oil, plugs etc. to test on the street and track and have learned enuff to have a much better understanding about things that just 5 years ago I had little of...........I do what I do because I love it not for money or glory, I actually LOVE flogging cars and making changes to better their performance..........

I went from Holley 1.563 w/down leg, to 1050 AN , drivability is much better, my engine combo likes it.

Agreed my 1050AN started, ran and drove great after some IAB tuning, jet changes and an IFR change. We might have plugged one or two of the 5 emulsion holes on the metering blocks as well.

OOTB the carb ran poorly at 4200 feet above seal level.

i have one of those Race Demons with the removeable sleeves. i had bought a 1050 kit & changed everything over as prescribed but it was a dog driving around the pits, I rang the Demon help line at the time to see what tips i could get & I was put thru to Barry Grant at the time. He advised me & sent me free of charge, some other sleeves to make it into a 1025 instead. the sleeves had 0.040 more venturie effect. wow, huge improvement over the 1050, the car was so much more responsive & i ran my car at consistant 9.5's for many seasons with that combo. so if you want any 1050 sleeves, i have some going cheap.

The "1025" sleeves were 1.562 as I recall..... The black ones.

In that venturi/throttle bore combo(1.562 x1.750) .....If it was a Race Demon RS it was a "1025", as a Race Demon w/o removable sleeves it was a "1000", and if it was a Mighty Demon it was an "850".

I have a Race Demon RS 950 Annular that I converted to a 1050 down leg.
Drives fine on the street and ran my best times.
I have switched to a Gen 3 Dominator and the test results are not in yet. The new carb was not zeroed in yet.And I haven't been back out to test it .
The engine is a 572" Hemi.
Mark

It's been years since I flowed any of those things, but to the best of my recollection.... They were about 920-930cfm.

The annular boosters were 20-25cfm less.

I had also bought some of the largest sleeves..... I think they might have been 1.590(?).... Silver color iirc...... And they didn't increase the flow at all.

Yep, the 1.562" venturi was the "1025"; still have my black sleeves.

Re the advertised size differences... I figure BG felt if you didn't pay the extra $$$, you didn't deserve the extra CFM!

They had to give you something for the extra $$$ !!

Old BG catalog .

Interesting looking at that catalog........by looking at their ratings, they show the annular boosters are a 100cfm reduction with the 1.590 sleeves, and a 205cfm reduction with the 1.562 sleeves.

I guess in fairness......at least on that page........ it's not listed as any kind of rating, but rather the "model".

yep them silver ones just didn't cut it on my combo. The black just seemed to make everything work better. didnt run any slower.

I'm not sure that I actually ran the silver sleeves on a motor.

I flowed that combo, and there wasn't any additional flow compared to the 1.562, but there was a reduction of booster signal.

This was actually on the predecessor to the Demon carbs..... The "Gold Claw".

On the dyno, the two best combos I played with on that carb were the 1.562/annular, and the 1.425/downleg.

I sold that carb to Brad, and iirc, his best ET's were using that 1.425/downleg combo.

I've had a reworked old school Holley 850 annular since 1991 that's always worked really good for me. Neither of those combos on the Claw were any "better"(although very close)than that old Holley, so I sold it off.

On the dyno... your "legacy" CFS 850 annular made close to 10 HP and a similar # increase in torque over the GC in 1.425/downleg config. That's what got me interested in trying the 1.562/annular config.

I couldn't get the 1.562/annular to run any quicker or faster on the track than the 1.425/downleg, and it didn't run nearly as nice on the street, either. I didn't have the patience, knowledge or opportunity to try it again before selling the annular boosters w/ the silver 1.590" sleeves. I do still have the black sleeves & downleg boosters, but will likely offer those for sale, too.

Speaking of the silver sleeves... when I bench-tested a bunch of carb bodies & GC sleeve & booster configs -- even using downleg boosters -- the silver 1.590" sleeve flowed LESS than the black 1.562" by 10-15 CFM IIRC, in addition to having less booster draw. My hypothesis is the transition into the large(r) venturi with the Claw / Demon entry form is too abrupt, which is why the venturi size increase doesn't translate into any flow increase.

I'd have to dig back into "the archives", but at some point BG upped the "model" of the 1.562/annular config to something "bigger", but I don't remember what at this point. BG's wet flow test #s they used to put on the back of the original Gold & Silver Claw brochures (I still have one of each) don't correlate to anything that makes sense to me, even today. Between BG and Holley, the "model" stopped relating to anything tied to venturi/booster/throttle size config years ago...

Most of our engines we run are 484 to 526, and I do not have the dyno experience others have, we have found the 4150 based annular carbs are always slower at the track. I think they flow a little less air. On the street they work great, but the track, the down leg ones are quicker. Especially with 50cc pumps.

Now we did dyno a 572 Hemi last year, and with a modified six pack of all things. That setup was within a dozen hp of a 4150 carb.....But on the street, it wouldn't even get out of the drive way. We learned, the dyno covers up a lot on the low end of the curve. That setup had a wicked stumble.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYw6RA-k5Bk

And no "billet" to be found on that old carb anywhere!!

My experience on my combo different tracks
Weather changes i dont have data
1050/4150 9.95 e85 60ft 1.34 tb 4500rpm
1050 dommy only 2 runs so far on it 10.07 e85 1.33 60ft tb4500 flat fuel curve
Stock stroke 440 .050 @ 3375#

Many have proven the good old Holley's to work well no doubt and I have worked a few like yourself but the Billet is just modern perfection in weight, consistency and looks. Not for everybody but drillin and tapping the old blocks is tedious and when you remove the well plugs and start gauging things, you'd see why Billet is better..........Billet wheels and components have taken over "stamping s" by a landslide and are truer by CNC design not castings w/core shift, flashing etc..........Needed for the average hot rodder, maybe not but like cams, cranks, rods etc, New tech has it's advantages and the only diss for some may be the price which really isn't that much more from a "custom" piece...............

I've been able to flow test a lot of bodies and boosters over the last few years, not all equally sized bodies (or boosters) are the same. Quick Fuel is at the top, Braswell may be up there but I have not had one of their 4150's to test. Right with it is the BLP billet. With Holley and Demon it depends on the body size. I have an RS Demon with 1.500 sleeves and it's as good or better than any. Go bigger with the sleeves and it goes away, the 1.590 actually flows and signals less. Holley has the Ultra 950 with a 1.600 venturi that has the same issue, I can get as much flow and better signal with a Quick Fuel 1.450 venturi 950. The problem is the sharp turn from the entrance to the venturi, gives it a ski jump affect compressing the airflow at the venturi point and creating turbulence. A properly designed venturi will allow flow to speed up at the venturi point with minimal change to the airflow, not the case for some of these. Someone didn't pay attention during the design of the bodies. Quick Fuel and the billets taper the correct angle before the venturi and don't suffer the issue.

As far as annular given the ability to size the body large enough/correctly they will always outperform a down leg. Atomization and distribution are far superior. I've had annular 4150 carbs perform better than a down leg and flow less, on 565 at over 800 HP. And there are also a lot of options with annulars, I have a QF body 780 for Comp Eliminator I put together, it dry flows over 1050 CFM with annulars. Just not your conventional annular...