Brand X after market world is very serious these days....Vid

Its interesting to see the massive support the Brand X guys have available. And, to see the volume behind it....

To put their 40 completed engines per month into perspective, Calayes can't sell 200 Mopar cranks/year....

You guys are a little sheltered sometimes......

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-fbLgyvhSs

Makes it a little tough for a serious racer to remain loyal when you can call to Texas and have a 1000HP 565 delivered for under $20k without waiting forever.

So.....an LS is just a copy of a bigblock Mopar short block, with ford cylinder heads on it...lol

IF you want, just get one....

That's quite an operation.

5 cnc head porting machines...... Wow.

Brad Anderson Engineering is like that only for men!

What I found interesting was they mill out all the OEM cylinder sleeves and install their own...Do you know what kind of measurements it takes to know that would even be needed to make more hp? Let alone they make their own cams! I would love to work there.

That is a pretty big operation they have there. I have been in a bunch of shops, and none I have been in could do all that....

The Mopar crowd does not have that kind of following that I have ever seen. And no, I am not going to be putting one in my car...I would rather wait 4 months for just a single component....

While I do agree, there's just not much in between for Mopar guys. You have your basic 600-800 hp "bracket" builds, a small handful of 1k hp options, and then there's all out race kickazz blown hemis. A BAE hemi will make insane power, but I don't think I've ever seen one in a streetable combo, or even one that wouldn't require a high dollar tube chassis car to control it. I know most here aren't concerned about streetability, but I'd bet that 90% of the engines that Texas Speed churns out are going in street cars.

I make 1500 HP with Indy heads that would be streetable as hell. Mopar guys won't embrace the costs associated with the technology needed that goes along with that power and street ability .

Those big power LS cars are not all motor and are not carb induction.

Fastmop...I agree with you. Mine is very streetable making 1100 hp w/ the ability to go up to 1300 hp or so. I think the issue is a real lack of parts supporting the Mopars at the 1k+ hp level. That and not many Mopar guys actually want to make that much power, thus no parts. Most are complacent w/ 600 hp bracket cars. Nothing wrong w/ that, but don't expect a lot of new parts coming out for stuff no one wants to build.

The difference w/ the LS stuff is the ability to make big power using a lot of the factory components. Same w/ the G3 hemi.

Bingo!!! Just not enough market for hard core race parts in the Mopar community. Just go to a Mopar event and look what the cars run and where the manufacturers target their monies...There are just not enough Mopar people period.

This! They certainly had a few winners over the years that were extremely plentiful (therefor cheap) and can support awesome power stock or mildly modded with turbos like the 5.3 and iron block LQ motors. I don't think they're much better than late model mopar stuff from what I've seen, but the sheer volume produced makes them much cheaper.

What I thought was pretty cool though is the price of the Hellcat motor for 700hp is the same cost as the LS9 making only 639. Maybe we will start to see a turnaround in the cost/competitiveness late model stuff with the popularity of the new Challengers?

I mean hell, the hellcat crate motor is already WAY more competitive than the old Hemi crate motors ever were...spending 20k on a 578 hemi making 640hp vs 15k on a GMPP ZZ572R making 720hp. The 426 was even more of a joke, 16+K for what, 465hp? GM was making small block crate strokers like the ZZ383 making 450hp for under 8K.

While the prices of a lot of the late model crate motors still seem a little higher than the GM stuff, the gap between them and GM stuff definitely isn't as wide, and with the Hellcat engine the edge actually goes to Mopar for cost per HP.

If anyone is hoping that the aftermarket for mopar old school stuff is ever going to catch up with brand X, keep dreaming. If anything, I wouldn't be surprised if it gets worse. there's a lot of hope for the late model stuff though.

Maybe I'm wrong but I believe those G2 Hemi crate engines were only around 10-11K for a long time, that was a pretty good deal even though you had to go back through them.

"There are just not enough Mopar people period."

But that is what makes us special people! 😁😁😁

There are a lot who are scared off by the price of going mopar.
Every motor head that has ever worked at the company I run(over 20 years now), have always said the same thing, ...man I love the look of (insert Classic 60's 70's mopar) but I can go 10s in my Fox body/Camaro for half the cost.
The ricers that have gone thru this revolving door here at work are a50/50 mix of , Man I'd love an old V8 Mopar, or Dude, man I mean I can run 12s and get 20MPG.
G3s are changing that to a point. 2 out of the 5 younglings here are running LXs body's , 1 Magnum , the other a 300. both high 11s low 12s the other is a WRK guy while the 2 spend their money on the family.

lmao............and his place is within an hour of me and passed it a few times...........Again, neat stuff for the sheep and too tame for the Wolfs...........Plus, power adders SHOULD do these things.....I'm ducking the rocks now............

Not that is a engine shop!

I've said many times Mopar guys are their own worst enemy. As a general rule we don't accept changes or new stuff (unless it's like our old stuff) well. We've seen it here many times, "I won't buy that (insert part here) cause my rockers, headers, intake or whatever won't fit". Or, "it don't look like the (insert part here) that came from Ma Mopar on my car".

I'd love to to do a new gen 3 Hemi but honestly there isn't enough aftermarket support for me to take the plunge. That and the fact I have a ton of money in my current small block and all the parts I have on hand. I just can't bring my self to sell it for .35 cents on the dollar.

One of these days gear heads will mention Mopar guys like people mention dinosaurs, they once were here.

What else are you looking for in the G3 aftermarket? Just curious

I guess I look at part of the reason for the cycle of, "there are no high hp cars at the track/there are limited choices for high hp mopar parts" is this:
If you're looking to build a high hp motor for your chassis drag car/dragster, etc...... And you're not brand loyal to anything in particular, just want a reliable cost effective motor, that won't take a year to build....... After you look at all your viable options...... The cost and lack of comparably priced hard parts...... The decision is more or less made for you...... And it's not Mopar.
99% of the guys building high hp Mopar combos are die hards...... And there's just less and less of those around.

I remember being at New England Dragway at a test and tune quite a few years ago.
This girl was driving the family dragster making lap after lap trying to nail down the reaction times and get consistent ET's for the upcoming(at the time) IHRA national event where they were going to be running Top Dragster.

Single carb, no tow vehicle, mufflers, big chief heads, probably like a 632....... Just running 7.5x run after run.
I thought to myself......"pretty hard to argue with that".

I'm in my thirties.

Piecing together my all aluminum B1 headed-BB

We're out there still.

G/F still had to take out a loan to pay for the upgrades to make her pump gas gen 3 Camaro run 10.90's

Her AFR headed 383, forged crank wasn't free
Nor was the Ford 9" disc brake rearend.
Tranny upgrade to TH400
ATI 8"

The initial investment can be tough.
Student loans, mortgage slow things down.

I keep the Coronet running and racing while gathering parts for the B1 engine.

Same here...I'm 36. Glad I built my hemi 11 years ago before I got married, built a house, and had 2 kids. The car fund has taken a big hit! Nevertheless, I'm still slowly collecting parts for the next stage of upgrades.

Iron big and small blocks in the $3000 range, available in a reasonable time frame and not requiring a vault full of additional cash to make it useable would be nice. That would satisfy all the builds in the 700-1000hp range that would typically trash a stock block.

There are PLENTY of heads currently available for just those builds without venturing into the exotic realm, especially in the big block/HEMI department.

Aluminum water blocks that can be purchased for around $5500 would fill the next level builds and would allow for the group of guys that really don't need the extreme stuff like the BAE/AJPE hardware to get in the game.

The current KB block deal looks like a saving grace, but by the time you add in the head stud package and whatever else the block will need just to begin assembly, it looks like you could have well over 8k just in an empty block.

As for heads......a killer inline smallblock head, like a readily available W8 and a state-of-the-art HEMI head that bolts to a standard 4.800 HEMI block would allow for 800-1000+hp N/A smallblocks and 1300+ N/A HEMI deals. The Millenium HEMI head is a decent upgrade over 'stock style' heads, but is a little dated. The wedge already has the Predator and the line of B1s, so they are pretty much covered for 800-1200hp builds.

I have a couple friends that race Pontiac stuff and while Pontiacs are nowhere near the saturation of Ford and Chevy racers, they have some nice hardware to choose from, including blocks and even canted valve heads.

I wanted one of those dual head distributors they used in the Engine Masters. Not the one Jesel has, the one made from two ICE belt drive ones.....Why, I have to run an engine with a distributor to be legal, and that is the most compact one. Called BES, and it was a one off they did, called ICE ignition, they won't make one....Its always the same frustration in the Mopar world, you have to make it yourself if you want one....As much as I like to tinker in the shop, I don't have time with my new job. This hobby is really tough for us Mopar guys. That right there killed it for me on a G3 route...See ya.

Its just like my big Hemi, you want another 4.75 crank, well that will be 13 weeks and big $$$$...again, I am done. I could buy an entire smaller rotating assembly far quicker and for less. See ya. The parts are just not available. This week it was a 4ft Hurst shift cable....Discontinued. Guess who can't make the race tomorrow...This hobby really sucks some days.

I would love to be the guy who takes the car to the cruise night once in a while, but arm chair lawn fetes aren't my thing. Racing is, and the lack of support, the lack of volume, the lack of innovation, its just.............rant off.

Well everyone has heard me rant about "cheap" Mopar guys. In all fairness I throw that around probably way to much. I mean if you don't want to build 900hp then you done need to spend that money. For those who do delve into other makes, like myself and around all out power kinda stuff you would find building a max effort engine of any make costs $$$$ plain and simple. There are no short cuts, no off the shelf combos or parts and it take a LOT of time. Just no way around it. Most of this industry has gotten away from stocking these types of parts. The reason is there is simply no demand. If you want a billet crank for ANYTHING it takes time, plain and simple. Now the secondary market is loaded with GM and Ferd stuff for sale for sure. When it comes to Mopar stuff it is rare to find and most balk at the price, even when it is a smoking deal, ask me how I know.

I will stand by the previous statement. There simply are not enough Mopar people out there who want to build 1000+hp stuff of any type to justify getting into that market segment. The 6-800 market is the target and IMO it is LOADED with options.

I agree...... For the most part.
I'd say 600-1000hp.

But...... No easily attainable, cost conscious iron blocks.

I don't consider $4500 a cost effective option for someone who wants to build a reliable motor in that hp range.
The Brodix iron block is available in a multitude of configurations for $1995, and is perfect for that type of build.
Want something a little fancier? Dart Big M for less than $3000.
A 588-632 combo with a big set of cnc ported conventional heads will easily make over 900hp.......... And you could have all the parts to build the complete motor at your door in a week.

I agree. I have an aftermarket iron bloin my Camaro and it was significantly cheaper(1800 back then)than the Mopar ones offered. Although I was able to buy a few(mopar blocks)at $2400, just sold the last one for $3K. As for aluminum we run a Brodix aluminum block in the heads up car and it is similar in cost to Indy.


As for waiting for Mopar stuff at 800+- level. I don't find it to be excessive, any more so than the other makes. The difference is I can make ONE call and have it all that fast. I built a 511"(stock block) Mopar late last year and had everything needed within a couple weeks after a few phone calls. A 496 BBC also was done the same time and the only differed was it was one call. Both make pretty much the same power, with a slight edge to the Mopar. Both aftermarket heads and rotating assy..

Totally agree just not enough Moparians who want to build a 1000HP+ engine for manufactures to have enough volume to make it work financially - although the gen-III crowd is gaining momentum and there is enough interest there for somebody to design a race block that will go over 1000 HP and not split - of which I understand is in process. but for the old stuff we are a dying breed I am afraid

I'll go out on a limb here and say that had an aftermarket block of similar strength and quality to the Brodix BBC iron block been readily available for around $2500($500 more than they cost for the Chevy).......you'd have bought one for that build.

Oh yeah would be a no brainer frankly

I guess that's my point....... That's where the market for the blocks is..... At least if you want to sell any volume.

Decent iron blocks that will live at 1000hp for under $3000.

Without that option, the masses(such as they are) will continue to build 500-700 motors out of stock blocks.

It's a shame really...... There are plenty of all the other components available to build 800-1000hp BB Mopars........ And no cost effective blocks to put them in.

I can't even get someone to bite on a 72 400 std bore clean block and caps only for a lousy 250 bucks!!!! The cheapest car guys on the planet are indeed Mopar guys. The LS aftermarket business I see here in Michigan is crazy busy!!At the end of the day the old Mopar aftermarket business is just not big enough for manufactures to care. Hopefully the Gen 3 business grows and stays profitable for everyone involved.

If you weren't in Mi I'd bite on that, and I have a 72 400 block in storage right now. PM with shipping cost it'll be gone asap.

Where is the block located? Anyway we could meet someone n Norwalk in late August around the time of the NMCA race there? We still use them for builds for those who cannot afford aftermarket stuff. Down to my last two

I am in Buffalo, and been looking for another one of those....wish you were closer. I do not get out that way much anymore.

http://brodix.com/products/cast-iron-chevrolet-compatible-blocks-available-through-brodix

Is this the iron blocks you keep referring to from Brodix ?

If so you do realize these are not their blocks...hence the chevy compatible available thru Brodix !!

Anyone can get Chinese blocks $150k or heads $75k plus a initial min order done...DAMHIK !!

Some of the younger members won't remember it but how many guys remember Brandon at 440source trying to get a big block mopar casting made at a projected under 2000.00 price point. I was on the list for two blocks. Lol

I think of the 440source block a lot.

Got a 440source crank in my 4 second car. 😎

And I REALLY want to put one in my Hemi. 😛

Where the hell were you two years ago? lol. I paid $325 for a complete 400 just north of the Ohio border. Drove two hours to get it. Tossed everything and built a 512 out of the block.

Chinese?? Not according to the website, where it mentions its USA made several times.



But...... If if you'd like something else, for a few hundred more you can get a Dart block...... Also USA made.

You are correct on the Chinese part and I should not have included it in my post...Thanks for correcting !!

My stmt about what it cost to have a Chines tier 1 contractor/supplier is actual on having blocks or heads done as I've had the disscussion with one !!

I am one of the older Mopar lovers who has no interest at all in the 1000 plus hp power adder engines. I am 61 and still love the way we built them in the 60's and 70's other then the safety issue's. I was married most of my adult life and have 2 kids so it seemed I never had the money I wanted to build just a mild build like in my 63. That was until I got divorced but I always and still do put my family first of course. I am a diehard Mopar lover and I can tell you I love all brands of American muscle but you will never see me in anything other then a Mopar. And I am more then happy with my 600 hp street car that can run in the 10's just as I drive it. I have no interest at all in the newer stuff and honestly when I see a 60's or 70's Mopar with a new Hemi in it I usually just walk right by it. Its not that I dont appreciate the awesome power the modern engines make its just that I love what I grew up with and thats what I like to see. I look at a car and combo for how well it works for what it has in it. I am just as impressed with a 318 Dart running 12's N/A as a 9 second car with a power adder on it. Even though my car only runs in the 10's I am more then happy with it and have the pride of knowing I built it. Myself I love the Nostalgia Super Stock racing and the Pure Stock and FAST muscle cars. I have no interest in most of the Pro classes or the Pro Mods as I like the basic factory looking muscle car. I even had to scimp some on my 63 as it seems I never have enough money to build exactly what I want. So I built my 63 about like I would have built my street car in the 70's and thats pretty much because that all I could afford and thats building it myself. I had to save some money when I put my 63 together and it was more because I just did not have much then the fact of high Mopar prices as I look at my 63 and think well I have no MSD ign , no dominator carb , no Cal Tracs , no fuel cell , no tubbing or cutting on the car , no Barry Grant fuel pump and system , no adjustable rear shocks and it still uses all the factory type suspension. But its safe and runs good enough for me to have fun and be happy. I remember someone on here told me I should ditch the Acell Supercoil I run and get some modern ign on it. I said why as this was on my sons Dart and his car went no faster or started any better when we put MSD on it. Yea the Acell Supercoil came out in the 70's and it worked then for what I had and it works now for what I have. So I guess I am one of the older cheap Mopar guys who lives in the past but I make the best of what I have and enjoy it.
Besides I like to be a little different as it seems everyone has a Chevy and when I go to the track or a car show most of the time I am the only 63 Sport Fury there so its nice not to have the same car everyone else has !!

IMO the aftermarket has been very serious for brand X for over 30 years now. Are you just now noticing?

I built a 632 donovan block with pontiac big chief heads on it back in 1992 that made 1200 hp injected on alky. Then had a serious N2O system on it.

There was no way to go that fast with 440 stuff then just like now.


I did switch back to mopar when I went with a brad billet hemis.

Not trying to make the small block guys mad but, after those motors above the 340 I built most recently is like a go cart engine power wise.

I've built some serious motors.

While I am not over 60, I for one would like to see some further interest from the younger folks in the Mopars...Seems like very little interest these days from the younger folks...

And power adder cars are not running 9's anymore, they are running low 8's and faster....

"street" cars with power adders are running 9's with all factory parts at full weight.....

I would like to see the aftermarket get behind the G3 and BBM's and continue to progress. I want to see 700hp NA G3's and 1k NA BBM as a standard with options available...Just like the heads for them, and all the different options available, progress needs to continue.

I think the $7k blocks will price many of us out.....Unless we generate some real volume and help get the prices down. Eventually, like Hemi blocks, we will run out of regular production 440's and so on.....My friends and I certainly go thru a lot of parts each year...It would be nice to be able to make a phone call and get what we need instead of what we do go thru to get the parts...

Its "cool" to be different.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7chioaCT3Pw

I would like to see the aftermarket get behind the G3 and BBM's and continue to progress. I want to see 700hp NA G3's and 1k NA BBM as a standard with options available...Just like the heads for them, and all the different options available, progress needs to continue.




How can you get the aftermarket interested when every mopar vendor that produces MOPAR parts gets bashed on one of the biggest Mopar websites??? Never gonna happen.

How much influence do the people posting here have on the decisions you make when you're buying parts for one of your own builds?

For myself...... It's pretty close to 0%.

I like to make up my own mind about the parts I use.
If some new head comes out, or new offering from a carb supplier, pistons, intake manifolds, etc...... I'll probably read the posts pertaining to the part in question....... But aside from an extremely high failure rate...... There is really very little that could be said to keep me from trying something if I thought it would do what I wanted it to.

1000hp small block or big block mopar builds were a niche market to begin with, and I'd imagine it's getting even smaller with guys jumping ship to gen3.

Looking for a 1000hp capable block for cheap? How about a whole fully assembled short block for under 4K?
http://www.modernmusclextreme.com/p-215-hellcat-62l-hemi-short-block-68262362aa.aspx

Guys are pushing their hellcats to 1000rwhp on that stock short block so I'd imagine 1000hp at the crank wouldn't be so risky (assuming you're using a turbo or blower, not spinning it to 9k N/A).

This is the way I wish I went with my car. I couldn't afford to drop 2500-3k on an unmachined R block then pay another 3-4k for a rotating assembly and machine work so now my stock LA block is my limiting factor and i'm afraid to push it over 650hp. Doing the math on it, I think I could have done the late model hemi for close to the same cost and I would have had a far superior power plant, not only in its ability to make and handle power but in drivability as well.

Google is a powerful tool in today's world as we are not all old school and use it as a research tool and negative reports do come up and they do affect businesses

Forums are for good and bad...opinions are not all one sided that's why we call it a discussion. If products we use are constantly being discontinued due to lack of volume, my opinion of it is irrelevant.

Bought a $1300 sV1...you might want to know what I thought of it, is it negative to discuss the tune it came with is way off?

Bought a G3 Dominator...same issue...am I not allowed to say anything because out if the box it wasn't even close?

There's nothing wrong with discussion.

My point was........ If I wanted to try a SV1 or a new Gen3 Dominator...... I would just do it and make up my own mind........ And there wouldn't be much of anything I read on the Net that would keep me from doing that.

The argument that all new products for Mopars get bashed here, and that's why nothing new is coming out doesn't carry much water for me.

If you find the right niche, and build a quality part to fill it..... It will sell well, and get mostly positive reviews...... Even here on Moparts.

Case in point....... Trick Flow heads.

I have zero idea on how the sales numbers actually stack up...... But if I had to guess, I'd say they sold more TF Mopar heads in the last 18 months than they have sold new B1 heads in the last 5 years.
And the TF head competes in a segment where there is plenty of competition.

The flip side is....... There are plenty of negative reviews for just about any brand x part you can think of. Just find the busiest web site pertaining to that brand, and you'll find it's the same story there as here.
Whatever it is......... Someone loves it...... Others hate it.
Whether its camshafts, cylinder heads, fast food chains, car manufacturers, cola flavored soda....... It's all the same.

90s Chrysler company is mostly to blame for this, IMHO.
Most of my buddies from that time period were in to Mustangs and Camaro's because they were rear wheel drive, what did Ma Mopar offer in rear wheel...the Dakota and Ram, great if you wanted to beat up a Lighting or 454 truck. there was the Viper...but what real life struggling family is going to buy a viper. Neon...yeah that really got the masses interested in the performance.
We as people tend to follow in our parents foot steps, Brand Loyalty accounts for about half on new car buyers , the other half is image and reliability...lets face it unless you were loyal to ma Mopar thru the bad years , Chrysler chassed away a lot of it's then new customers mid 80s thru early 2000s
The 545 trans didn't help the light duty truck market either.

Well, I have spent more than a little over the years based not insignificantly on your posts.

If the delivery times on "The Block" get down to under a month I might be in the market. It sure would be nice if they were closer to 3K than 4 though....

I appreciate the vote of confidence

But I really don't consider myself as the "last word" on anything....... Except the things that I'm buying for myself(or i suppose a customer build as well).

For any car site with similar traffic and membership to this one, I have no doubt there are plenty of guys like myself with what I'll call "informed opinions" to share, where people put some faith in what they have to say.

I have 3 older on-topic cars to play with but when I show up at the track I think I'm just another old guy with old cars. Where is a younger person gonna get a Demon or Barracuda to play with these days? What's available cheap is usually too much of a project and driveable cars of that sort are kinda expensive. Chrysler made nothing for coming up generations 'cept the throw-away FWD cars. I did sell my Dart Sport to a kid not too long ago for a LOT of $100 bills. Hopefully, he won't put an LS in it.

[quote=fast68plymouth]There's nothing wrong with discussion

The argument that all new products for Mopars get bashed here, and that's why nothing new is coming out doesn't carry much water for me.

If old Mopar guys really think the Mopar Parts division cares about what is said on this website than it's time for hell to freeze over. The bottom line is FCA Is for sale. The last thing they are concerned with is a bunch of 50 something year old guys complainining about what's available for what truly is .00000000000001% of the market.
The other thing that is truly amazing is when guys like Dave Hughes, Brandon from 440 Source or anyone who thinks outside the box for that matter comes up with something new or different they are immediately jumped on by several on this website.

Hopfully the Gen 3 Mopar crowd can unite and support the aftermarket and the shops that build up the engines.

I don't do power adder deal for my stuff period. And still want 1000+hp. Leave the choices few and far between. Also leaves all the little things to be done. Cant just but some bits and pieces and "throw" them together. There is enough BBC stuff out there that you could piece together a bad combo and not worry about the details and still make 1000+, that to ne is the biggest difference between the two.

383man you are by far in the majority of what I see at most Mopar shows. Guys just want to have fun and be at the track racing. And they are perfectly happy there and there is nothing wrong with that at all. It is obviously what drives the market..

As for any commentary here on products and their possible influence on the market. I think some here think this place is the be all and end all of the Mopar world. I would say it is VERY VERY far from that. This place is but a VERY SMALL portion of the Mopar community, very very small really. Especially amongst the racing community. Most work hard and don't have the time to spend hashing crap over on an internet forum, I have time as I retired for the most part at 47, six years ago. To think that Moparts has a big impact on any aftermarket development of parts is well in my mind arrogant. As for people basing ANYTHING, I think you will find people are very quick to criticize and complain about anything and a lot more hesitant to compliment or shower praise on any business. We fight it all the time..One person with an axe to grind will continue on their rant and diatribe to no end if they feel they were wronged, whether they were or just perceive they were. I personally take all reviews with a grain of salt, to many years on business I suppose..

being in my mid 60's, i'm like 383man. i still think of the 62-3 &4's as new cars. and getting my charger in '70, well, it WAS new [almost]. i really like the new, super powerful stuff of today, including the hell cat and demon, plus the availability of the aftermarket parts that can produce [in the right combination] 1000+hp. but with my age comes severe health problems that take up a fair share of my limited income, so i have resigned myself to the fact i will never be "there" in either respect mentioned previously. with that being said, i need an engine for my 33 dodge humpback panel truck, and i also need an engine "refresh" for my charger. if, and when, the time comes for either of those, i have performance goals that i truly believe each must obtain just because of the "look" of each. at that time, i will trust this board with recommendations, and possibly try to purchase a long or short block for a very good price i can afford, rather than build one from scratch. my best friend always says : "our hour glass is fast running out of sand". it won't be a new conversion, rather an "old school", carbed combo combination that "may" meet my goals at the weight of each vehicle.

I did want to that I dont hate the newer stuff at all as its just not what I really love in this hobby. And I understand the manufactors have to build cars with power adders today or they just cant compete. There is no way a N/A car can compete with a boosted car on fair terms. I felt that Mopar had to super or turbocharge the Challenger to be competitive with the new Mustangs and Camaro's with their power adders. Take a N/A new Hemi Challenger and it runs in the 12's. Take the supercharged Hellcat and it will run high 10's stock on a good tire. In the 60's and 70's it seemed no muscle cars had power adders as the technology was not what it is today and I grew up loving bigblock N/A muscle cars and they all had their own look to them. But with the technology of today they can run the power adders and give them a warranty which makes the new boosted cars very fast. And its not that I dont like the Pro cars of NHRA its just that they all look the same and even Pro Stock has gone that way which makes the class less interesting to me. Thats some of the reasons I love what I grew up with in the 60's and 70's but I am glad to see the new fast Mopars as thats what technology has done and its great but I still love the older muscle cars the most. Ron

I turned 43 less than a month ago and I love my 451" Demon but it gets harder and harder to find time, money and desire to work on it. The engine has been in the garage for almost a year ready to go back in yet it is still there. More and more tempting to unload it and move on.