Posted By: madmax2
RHS INDY 360X heads!! - 02/23/09 04:40 AM
http://www.compperformancegroupstores.co...egory_Code=Chry
What thinks about this heads? some experience?
What thinks about this heads? some experience?
RHS INDY 360X heads!!
Posted By: HotRodDave
Re: RHS INDY 360X heads!! - 02/23/09 04:46 AM
Except the new bosses added for dual ex patterns and dual rocker set up they look exactly like the RHS heads I just sold. Those were VERY nice castings, machining and casting quality was great. Ports were very well thought out and way better than a regular magnum head. I think they are the best iron head short of a W2.
Posted By: Brian Hafliger
Re: RHS INDY 360X heads!! - 02/23/09 06:53 AM
I plan to get a pair real soon and do some work to them. I'll post info and pics as soon as I do. Hopefully we can do an engine with them and get some HP #'s as well!
Brian
Brian
Posted By: madmax2
Re: RHS INDY 360X heads!! - 03/03/09 08:37 AM
Quote:
I plan to get a pair real soon and do some work to them. I'll post info and pics as soon as I do. Hopefully we can do an engine with them and get some HP #'s as well!
Brian
I will stay waiting... good luck
Posted By: Brian Hafliger
Re: RHS INDY 360X heads!! - 03/03/09 03:10 PM
Those heads will probably be here at the end of March or early April...
Brian
Brian
Posted By: 71Pan
Re: RHS INDY 360X heads!! - 03/03/09 04:09 PM
Looks like a great head. But why can't somebody bring out a head with a least 210 cc port volume.
I look at all sbc stuff and want to stick a fork in my eye.
I look at all sbc stuff and want to stick a fork in my eye.
Posted By: BDS871Cuda
Re: RHS INDY 360X heads!! - 03/03/09 04:26 PM
I ran X heads on a 340 years ago, they made good power.
I don't think they will do as good as RPM heads,
but for $770 for new castings, you can't go
wrong.
They say 550 HP. I would bet it would have to be
a stroker with max porting.
Still a good deal.
I don't think they will do as good as RPM heads,
but for $770 for new castings, you can't go
wrong.
They say 550 HP. I would bet it would have to be
a stroker with max porting.
Still a good deal.
Posted By: Jesse_Lackman
Re: RHS INDY 360X heads!! - 03/03/09 05:29 PM
Posted By: patrick
Re: RHS INDY 360X heads!! - 03/03/09 05:38 PM
Jesse Lackman made 520hp/548 tq IIRC on a 408 with some far from maxed out RHS 360HPST heads and a mildish (238@.050) hydraulic roller. the 360HPST heads were the starting point for these heads.
here's a link to Jesse's engine thread
dang it, looks like Jesse beat me (:
about the only things these have in common with OEM "X" heads are the name and the fact they're iron......
here's a link to Jesse's engine thread
dang it, looks like Jesse beat me (:
about the only things these have in common with OEM "X" heads are the name and the fact they're iron......
Posted By: Jesse_Lackman
Re: RHS INDY 360X heads!! - 03/03/09 05:41 PM
Quote:
Except the new bosses added for dual ex patterns and dual rocker set up they look exactly like the RHS heads I just sold. Those were VERY nice castings, machining and casting quality was great. Ports were very well thought out and way better than a regular magnum head. I think they are the best iron head short of a W2.
I didn't think of the dual ex pattern when I made my suggestions for the 360HPST to RHS a couple years ago, nice addition. I'd still like to see a version with the pushrod holes un machined or machined for offset rockers.
Posted By: aarcuda
Re: RHS INDY 360X heads!! - 03/03/09 06:19 PM
Quote:
550 would be possible, I got 520 with a 236/242 cam;
Street 360/408 dyno results (520 CHP - 540 CTQ)
wow, those were incredible numbers. Im running a hughes solid cam in my 416 that is the 245/250 @ .050. my TA heads have been obscenely ported as well.
i want too know what secrets you put into that motor (i never dyno'd mine).
What would you shift that (or my motor) at if hughhes says its good to 6100 rpm?? Ive been hitting it at 6500.
Posted By: HotRodDave
Re: RHS INDY 360X heads!! - 03/04/09 12:38 AM
Guys Guys Guys these heads are not the X heads we have had around for the last 41 years!
Flow is better out of the box both in terms of volume and quality of the air flow. The combustion chamber is WAY better than an X head. It has genourous quench areas no funky divots and the RHS has way better swirl and wet flow characturistics. Even if the X head was ported to make as much flow as a RHS head it still will not make as much power.
Flow is better out of the box both in terms of volume and quality of the air flow. The combustion chamber is WAY better than an X head. It has genourous quench areas no funky divots and the RHS has way better swirl and wet flow characturistics. Even if the X head was ported to make as much flow as a RHS head it still will not make as much power.
Posted By: aarcuda
Re: RHS INDY 360X heads!! - 03/04/09 02:57 AM
my heads are ported pretty nice. Mullin ported them for me back in the 80's when he had a shop out in the LA area.
Posted By: aarcuda
Re: RHS INDY 360X heads!! - 03/04/09 03:05 AM
and
Posted By: dannysbee
Re: RHS INDY 360X heads!! - 03/04/09 03:22 AM
aar How do your heads flow?
Posted By: aarcuda
Re: RHS INDY 360X heads!! - 03/04/09 03:45 AM
Quote:
aar How do your heads flow?
you got me there. I didnt pay to get them flowed. But I asked for the best he had and he said I got it. I have some other pictures but theyre at work. the pushrod hump is nonexistent. the valve guides in the port is thinned and tapered. looks really nice.
I should have had them flowed but he told me not to waste my money cause he's flowed these before. i can remember any more than that
Posted By: aarcuda
Re: RHS INDY 360X heads!! - 03/04/09 12:48 PM
these were taken after the heads had sat for a number of years. sorry for the rust.
Posted By: aarcuda
Re: RHS INDY 360X heads!! - 03/04/09 12:49 PM
and this
Posted By: aarcuda
Re: RHS INDY 360X heads!! - 03/04/09 12:52 PM
and here
Posted By: aarcuda
Re: RHS INDY 360X heads!! - 03/04/09 12:54 PM
exhaust
Posted By: BDS871Cuda
Re: RHS INDY 360X heads!! - 03/04/09 10:41 PM
Quote:
550 would be possible, I got 520 with a 236/242 cam;
Street 360/408 dyno results (520 CHP - 540 CTQ)
So, what did the 71 duster run with the 520 horse
408?
It was a 71 duster, right?
Posted By: emarine01
Re: RHS INDY 360X heads!! - 07/17/09 05:03 PM
Check jesses post with link
Posted By: TheOtherDodge
Re: RHS INDY 360X heads!! - 07/17/09 07:22 PM
It's pretty funny to see the negative report from Hughes on these heads.
On my 2000, I broke a valve spring so instead of spending $500 on stock heads (valve job, resurface, new valve, new springs, seals, etc), I opted for the new Indy heads.
I got the 2.02 version. I didn't notice much difference but the top end does pull harder. However, my motor has the stock cam, exh manifolds, so it is begging for a cam! Basically, when it comes rebuild time, I will have all the head I need.
On my 2000, I broke a valve spring so instead of spending $500 on stock heads (valve job, resurface, new valve, new springs, seals, etc), I opted for the new Indy heads.
I got the 2.02 version. I didn't notice much difference but the top end does pull harder. However, my motor has the stock cam, exh manifolds, so it is begging for a cam! Basically, when it comes rebuild time, I will have all the head I need.
Posted By: patrick
Re: RHS INDY 360X heads!! - 07/17/09 07:45 PM
just got the stock roller cam in my roller 318 reground by bullet cams, 259 adv dur, 208 at .050, 127 at .2, .316" lift on both the intake and exhaust. it's in a 9:1 engine with ported by me magnum heads, 1 5/8" headers, eddie 600, and eddie RPM air gap intake. I'll let you know how it runs once I get it together and fired up...
was $125 to regrind, and had I been more patient, it woulda been about $30 round trip shipping.
was $125 to regrind, and had I been more patient, it woulda been about $30 round trip shipping.
Posted By: goldmember
Re: RHS INDY 360X heads!! - 07/18/09 08:24 AM
Did you pick those lobes or someone @ Bullet?
Posted By: patrick
Re: RHS INDY 360X heads!! - 07/18/09 06:14 PM
i did from their catalog. they wanted to spec something 10+ degrees bigger, and this is going into a heavy car, and I want my powerband to be from idle-5500
Posted By: Hughes
Re: RHS INDY 360X heads!! - 07/20/09 01:22 PM
Our report is not negative. We love the heads and think they havea lot of potential. Just like our article says. However, if we can't install a taller spring they are pretty much useless.
Posted By: TheOtherDodge
Re: RHS INDY 360X heads!! - 07/20/09 01:39 PM
"However, if we can't install a taller spring they are pretty much useless."
So you can't use a longer valve?
So you can't use a longer valve?
Posted By: flatlinedude
Re: RHS INDY 360X heads!! - 07/20/09 01:40 PM
Quote:
if we can't install a taller spring they are pretty much useless.
use a longer valve stem?
Posted By: Thread Ender1
Re: RHS INDY 360X heads!! - 07/20/09 02:26 PM
Quote:Thats what everyone is asking, why not a .100 or so longer valve?
"However, if we can't install a taller spring they are pretty much useless."
So you can't use a longer valve?
Posted By: mrsmallblock
Re: RHS INDY 360X heads!! - 07/20/09 02:30 PM
Because at some point...it really starts to mess up valve train geometry.
Howard
Howard
Posted By: moper
Re: RHS INDY 360X heads!! - 07/20/09 04:15 PM
"Because at some point...it really starts to mess up valve train geometry."
Too bad nobody's figured out how to address that...
With a little work in terms of valve job, valves, and springs/hardware, from what I saw, these heads should be able to reach the level of a stage 2 ported RPM for $500-700 less. There's a ton of potential there and it's too bad you are being negative about them. Saying otherwise makes Hughes look.. well.. stupid for lack of a better term. I had a good look at them in Carlisle on Thursday with Sam.
Too bad nobody's figured out how to address that...
With a little work in terms of valve job, valves, and springs/hardware, from what I saw, these heads should be able to reach the level of a stage 2 ported RPM for $500-700 less. There's a ton of potential there and it's too bad you are being negative about them. Saying otherwise makes Hughes look.. well.. stupid for lack of a better term. I had a good look at them in Carlisle on Thursday with Sam.
Posted By: Hughes
Re: RHS INDY 360X heads!! - 07/20/09 04:38 PM
Moper, I think you are totally misreading what I am writing. We are not against these heads. We are a dealer for INDY and RHS and we want to sell these heads! We are just trying to put as much info out there as possible. We have talked to INDY and RHS about this spring height issue and they both know it is a problem. The problem with a longer valve is, exactly as someone said, the rocker geometry gets way out of whack. When this problem gets fixed this will be our small block iron head of choice. It flows great and has a great port design.
Kevin
Kevin
Posted By: Robbins
Re: RHS INDY 360X heads!! - 07/20/09 04:46 PM
Are these heads closed chambered?
Posted By: moper
Re: RHS INDY 360X heads!! - 07/20/09 04:49 PM
Ah. I don't think I misread. I read it as "the head as it sits is useless". I tedn to disagree with that initially. And, I'd think if you were really interested in marketing them, you guys might be instrumental in helping addres the design. As "for instance", replacing the valves with long Chevy valves w/ 11/32 stems and spacing up the pedestals on the MA-X or using shaft support block and doing something similar on the LA-Xs. I'm not positive those would both work, but it seems less pessemistic to say "we're helping work on it" than to say "They're usless and we'll wait for Indy/RHS to try and fix it." If it was my perception I apologize.
Posted By: Hughes
Re: RHS INDY 360X heads!! - 07/20/09 04:59 PM
No problem Moper..... It is hard to communicate well through typing. (lol). What I mean is that it is easy to misunderstand each other. Anyway, we have tried to work with them on correcting the design but so far they do not seem interested. We are hoping that this thread will generate some phone calls to INDY or RHS.
Have a good week! Kevin
Have a good week! Kevin
Posted By: patrick
Re: RHS INDY 360X heads!! - 07/20/09 05:01 PM
Quote:
Ah. I don't think I misread. I read it as "the head as it sits is useless". I tedn to disagree with that initially. And, I'd think if you were really interested in marketing them, you guys might be instrumental in helping addres the design. As "for instance", replacing the valves with long Chevy valves w/ 11/32 stems and spacing up the pedestals on the MA-X or using shaft support block and doing something similar on the LA-Xs. I'm not positive those would both work, but it seems less pessemistic to say "we're helping work on it" than to say "They're usless and we'll wait for Indy/RHS to try and fix it." If it was my perception I apologize.
yeah, I guess to me it seems pretty easy, especially on the magnum side, why can't you just space the rocker pedestals up a like amount as the added valve length? or 90% of aftermarket magnum rockers dump the pedestals for studs anyway.....
Posted By: TheOtherDodge
Re: RHS INDY 360X heads!! - 07/20/09 05:05 PM
IIRC, those heads come with a spring for up to .550 lift. Without checking, I believe there should be no problem with using a .100 longer valve. That should allow you to use a spring that is big enough to handle a pretty good size cam. Thoughts?
I think the reason some of us question your (Hughes) sentiments of the head is that we have had bad experiences with the customer service from your company, me included. This includes conversations with Hughes that imply "anything that we run that is not Hughes is junk".
I think the reason some of us question your (Hughes) sentiments of the head is that we have had bad experiences with the customer service from your company, me included. This includes conversations with Hughes that imply "anything that we run that is not Hughes is junk".
Posted By: S/ST 3040
Re: RHS INDY 360X heads!! - 07/20/09 05:11 PM
This is a different LA head but, with the same lay-out.
Anybody with a fraction of mechanical apptitude can visualize
how putting longer and longer valves will quickly, "Not Work".
Additional machining operations and "band-aid" fixes only add
to the subsiquent cost of a buget head.
Hughes has corrected rocker arm geometry on the OEM LA
heads for years so, they have a clue.
We are all guilty of our occasional, poor choice of words and
my hand is up as I am FREQUENTLY misunderstood.
I hope all involved get this rectified in short order.
-Vic Bloomer
Anybody with a fraction of mechanical apptitude can visualize
how putting longer and longer valves will quickly, "Not Work".
Additional machining operations and "band-aid" fixes only add
to the subsiquent cost of a buget head.
Hughes has corrected rocker arm geometry on the OEM LA
heads for years so, they have a clue.
We are all guilty of our occasional, poor choice of words and
my hand is up as I am FREQUENTLY misunderstood.
I hope all involved get this rectified in short order.
-Vic Bloomer
Posted By: danbap
Re: RHS INDY 360X heads!! - 07/20/09 05:46 PM
Hughes, so these heads are better then the iron ram 2.02 heads?
Posted By: patrick
Re: RHS INDY 360X heads!! - 07/20/09 06:19 PM
Quote:
This is a different LA head but, with the same lay-out.
Anybody with a fraction of mechanical apptitude can visualize
how putting longer and longer valves will quickly, "Not Work".
Additional machining operations and "band-aid" fixes only add
to the subsiquent cost of a buget head.
Hughes has corrected rocker arm geometry on the OEM LA
heads for years so, they have a clue.
We are all guilty of our occasional, poor choice of words and
my hand is up as I am FREQUENTLY misunderstood.
I hope all involved get this rectified in short order.
-Vic Bloomer
longer valves will work, you just have to shim the rockers up accordingly.....
FWIW my virgin chrysler '671 magnum heads,when I measured IH with the stock retainers, I had ~1.62-1.64". using stock locks and 2.2L retainers (to use 1.4" diameter springs), I had 1.60", and about the same with GM 3100 retainers and magnum locks. when I had the valve job done, I had the seats sunk .030" for a little more installed height.
that still limited my heads to about .520-.530" lift with the hughes 1110 springs I chose, but the cam I chose had .316" lobe lift, so I was fine. you can still make a lot of steam in a SBM with .530" lift...
another option to look at would be something like these crane springs:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CRN-99840-16/
shim them up .060" so your looking at 1.565" IH, you're looking at .63" travel before coil bind, so a reasonable lift limit of .570-.58" lift. at that IH you're only looking at 104lbs on the seat, though.....
also, before machining, my heads had about .540" of travel before the valve locks hit the seals. in all instances (stock retainers, 2.2L retainers, GM 3100 retainers), the LOCKS would contact the seals about .005" before the retainers.
Posted By: S/ST 3040
Re: RHS INDY 360X heads!! - 07/20/09 06:28 PM
It can't and won't work correctly.
Look at the attachment. The more you move the rocker shaft
and stem height UP.........moves the roller further to the wrong
side of the valve.
That's the very reason, the W-2 heads have offset shafts and
different pivot lengths.
Look at the attachment. The more you move the rocker shaft
and stem height UP.........moves the roller further to the wrong
side of the valve.
That's the very reason, the W-2 heads have offset shafts and
different pivot lengths.
Posted By: 65signet
Re: RHS INDY 360X heads!! - 07/20/09 08:30 PM
Can you run a .550 lift cam with these heads OOTB?
Posted By: TheOtherDodge
Re: RHS INDY 360X heads!! - 07/20/09 09:36 PM
The complete assembled head with 2.02/1.625 valve is set up to take a .525 lift cam. I was wrong about .550 lift (I was guessing based on what I remembered). However, Indy said if you want to run .550 lift, they can set it up that way.
I am running the stock cam (.430ish) so I wasn't concerned.
I am running the stock cam (.430ish) so I wasn't concerned.
Posted By: Hughes
Re: RHS INDY 360X heads!! - 07/21/09 01:16 PM
If the lifter and valves and the rocker pedastels were parallel to each other you could just raise the rockers and run longer valves. They are not parallel and the higher you raise the rockers, the worse the geometry gets. As far as compared to the Iron Ram heads...... Yes, the RHS/INDY head flows better. Once we get the spring issue fixed, like I said, it will be the head of choice.
Kevin
Kevin
Posted By: patrick
Re: RHS INDY 360X heads!! - 07/21/09 03:24 PM
Quote:
It doesn't and won't work correctly.
Look at the attachment. The more you move the rocker shaft
and stem height UP.........moves the roller further to the wrong
side of the valve.
That's the very reason, the W-2 heads have offset shafts and
different pivot lengths.
yeah, I forgot that the valves are at an angle relative to the shafts...