Keith Black blocks are flowing

Stopped by fho and found a pleasant surprise.
First time I have ever seen so many KB blocks at Tim's place
He may not be happy I snuck a picture

Nice herd.

Did you sneak a block out for me?

Awesome sight!

I'd love to sneek one out for me. I cant even get a shirt
So beefy, so sweet, pieces of aluminum beauty.

I had a nice visit with Keith in his shop in 1987. I suspect he would be proud that the new owners are working hard to return the KB name to a position of prominence in the performance world.

That is one nice hunk of metal!

HALLELUJAH

I would of asked Banning if it was ok to take any pictures and told him what you were doing with them. There are things being assembled in the shop that he does not want to be made public yet and each motor being built is being financed buy someone else and they might not want the pictures taken. He likely would of giving you the OK to take pictures of the KBs. You could of taken a side by side picture of the Hemi Indy Block beside the Keith Black Hemi Block. Pictures sometimes tell thieves what is in the shop at certain times.

This is EXACTLY correct and on point. I don't know the exact circumstances of this picture but taking pictures like that is not cool. Putting them on the internet is less cool. If he was ok with it then fine. I do not allow anyone in the build room or access to the shop with photography unless it is authorized by me or my partner. NOT because we are working on top secret Pro Stock caliber stuff, but for security. I work with the Buck Racing guys a lot with machine work and dyno testing engines. Google that name if you are not familiar with the break in they had a couple years ago. Take pictures like that in his shop and you might leave carrying your tailend. Always ask first. No disrespect to the guy taking the pictures as I know your heart was likely in the right place. IT is cool to ogle and look at the goodies but it is kinda like the strip club. Look all you want but no photos and no touching! End of soapbox. We now return to your normal programming
Oh and BTW I will be at Carlisle with a KB that you can fondle and take all the pictures you want of.....Todd

Hey, it's easier to beg forgiveness than ask permission.
If you look ,the picture is of only blocks so nobody's else s feelings would be hurt about their projects.
IMO Tim is too easy going to care about a couple of block pics
His business is hemi so a picture shouldn't matter to thieves.
It's a great time for the mopar community and this picture proves it. 3x the KB blocks I have ever seen in his shop.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_Rf2tZBNG8

Hey Todd maybe Ill come fondle your block in Carlisle

Cool video

Some pictures e-mailed to me

and

Beautiful

Gonna buy one John??

LOL. I have one and a mega block sitting here unused on my engine stands.

Nice!

Not really. Having one of those years that really test your love of the sport. I've had the transmission out of my black duster three times by myself working on the floor and I'm beat up. I think I found the issue and hope to have it back in the car tomorrow. Meanwhile I should be testing the small tire car but that's not in the plans till I get this issue addressed. Getting old sucks but it sure beats not getting old.

Happy birthday Ted!

I hear you on working on the floor. I'm glad I have a 15 year old who is the muscle now. I just don't have the pose I once did.

Looks like the ones we have too..

I'm glad they're not rod clearancing the bottoms of the sleeves. I understand why it was done in the past, but it was too much for longer stroke combos. nice to be able to decide how much to remove. Before you'd have an oil ring in the notch.

How much are they?

Believe the new price is $6995..

I got a new billet BAE block for less. But it don't have water jackets

You are correct by the time you pay the GST and the the shipping. It would be over $10,000 for a bare block. Never factored that in on my original post. Darn expensive no matter how you look at it.

Why would you pay duty, FHO is in Ontario.

With just the exchange it would be north of $10,000. Buying through Tim, yes no duties but you can add shipping costs and for me that would be $300-$350 +GST. So........ as Wookie said "Darn expensive no matter how you look at it". If someone wanted to buy my iron block and pay for the machining, then yes I would cough up the rest to buy an aluminum one.

^^^^^Agree!!!!!!

Anybody that was owed a block (payed for) receive one yet?

Still have not heard one person say "I finally got my block"

That's the $64000 question...

Nothing here yet...kinda expected thou due to solid block, low deck, lifter bushings. Not exactly what they would like to build but that is what I paid for.

I got a new billet BAE block for less. But it don't have water jackets

What did you get from BAE and what did it cost if I may ask???

[quote=Biginchmopar]Anybody that was owed a block (payed for)
According to Tim a few paid for blocks have been delivered
Maybe not to moparts members yet

It appears this subject is dormant now. Haven't heard of one paid in full customer receiving a block. Or of any customer, not distributers receiving a block. Some form of scheduling should be done by now. Don't you think? The pacifier's have been issued.

I have no dog in this hunt but shouldn't all the "backorders" be filled BEFORE any new customers receive new blocks??? Just seems like the best practice to me.

Makes sense.
Could be though that they got into a big enough financial hole that they need to retail some blocks to fresh customers so as to make enough profit to be able to take the hit sending out already paid for stuff.
Not a great scenario, but maybe a reality the new owners have to deal with.

I agree, but businesses are bought and sold every day. They knew going in it was an issue. If you do not care about the businesses reputation then I suppose ignoring it is fine. But buying a business generally means you assume the outstanding payables as well as the receivables. Not like this was an unknown to the purchasing party.

No, I didn't get it from BAE but it was new in the box for $6500
Standard deck, standard lifters, 4.375 bore

I see some of you guys know VERY little about building a business. talk is cheap but getting one up and running isn't especially if you start out in the hole to begin with. The new investors owed nothing to those that got screwed over by the past owner, but they are trying to do the right thing and slowly filling those orders as money to do so is available. Give the guys a chance fellows. A delay is way better than no hope at all. After all how long has it been since the first pour under the new owners hit the mold???

Companies come out with new products and blocks all the time, if they are good they sell themselves just by quality.

Forced edit.

He was more than happy to come here on his 1st post and advertise blocks.Years ago I started the Koleno 440 info post and had a lot more info that was provided to me then to you.

Someone who gets it

Frankly, I'm glad I have no plans in the works where I'd need one of those blocks.

With the way things are in the high hp Mopar world these days, if I were looking for 1000hp...... I'd just build a BBC........ Where I could get a new American made Brodix tall deck Siamesed bore iron block with .903 lifter bores for $1995 from Jegs.
And with the money I had left over from not buying a KB block I'd be able to afford a set of assembled SR20 heads.

^^^^Agree^^^^^

I begrudgingly agree. For that HP level it would be hard not to jump ship

I couldn't agree more, Dewayne. I have a friend who owns a super nice Mopar roller that could utilize some serious horsepower. I suggested he put a Chevy engine in it and keep the hood down.

Just to be clear, all my cars are Mopars including one I have owned 46 years, one 43 and one 42. Nonetheless, 90% of the cars that come through my shop are Brand X. The reason they are more popular is widely debated. I have my thoughts, but that's not why I am here.

EV2Bird, I know nothing of the situation re: your two friends who have gotten neither blocks nor money. Here is what I do know: The block I posted the picture of earlier is mine. It was ordered a long time ago and I too never thought I would receive one. I can tell you that there are people working to make things right. What that will mean for your friends? I don't know. Have they talked to anyone who actually knows what is going on?

I have purposely avoided this thread because there seem to be a lot of people who have or had no skin in the game yet seem to know the score.

Everyone is entitled to his or her own INFORMED opinion. I would suggest that anyone who has a serious interest contact Todd and leave the internet experts to their keyboards.

As for Ken, I agree with your assessment of him and his actions. I spent much time on the phone with him until he stopped answering. I don't know who, if anyone on this thread has made excuses for him. I certainly won't. But that's water under the bridge; the new owners didn't have to do anything. And the conclusion I reached after extensive research I did more than a year ago was that Ken could have filed bankruptcy again and there would be no new owners to try to satisfy unfilled orders.

My post isn't intended to anger or pacify anyone. Someone had questioned if a Moparts member had received a block. The answer is yes. There is nothing more I can factually add, so I will leave it at that.

Someone had questioned if a Moparts member had received a block. The answer is yes.

Thank you for posting that, it goes along way to many im sure.

I do know my one friend has contacted one of the new guys, not fully sure on the other.

I do know if I bounce a $100 check im in trouble, it just seems very odd so much money and so many blocks and it seems no one is one the hook for anything.

I understand what you are saying but the BB Chevy Brodix Block isnt as cheap as you think. From what I see on Summits site they are $5300-7450(maybe Brodix has a less block but I didnt see one listed) this price is comp to KB but the benefit is you KNOW you will get one. So yeah it would be easier to go BB Chevy because you know the product is available.

I have had the money set back for a KB block for a long time. But did not order due to problems I read about. When I know they are being delivered consistently I will order one. Until then I will play at a much lower power level. The Cuda still needs lots of wk and I can play with other toys. I just hope everyone that paid for a block eventually gets what they ordered.

Looks like some pacifiers got spit out. As for all the replies Mr. Alguire has more business sense than most. Pitt racer, do you have money in this venture? Doubt it, ANYONE investing the kind of money that was invested in KB racing have to have a little business sense. And obviously they do. You don't buy into any company without knowing all about debts owed. Then pricing your buy in accordingly. That means deducting debts from the buy in price up front. I guarantee this transaction took place accordingly. So the blocks paid for are owed by law. By the owners of KB racing. If Ken had filed for bankruptcy, would be a different story. So there you have a little more than 2 cents worth.
Don't know you Mr. Alguire, but hope to meet you some day. You're a good person.

So you would buy into a mopar only based company and before making a dollar profit reach into your own pocket again paying off past dept from a previous owner. Ya that would work. Lmao

Keep the hood closed?? Naahh.
Use big chief style heads, have the valve covers engraved with a Mopar logo, use a jesel belt drive with the belt drive distributor........ Tell everyone it's a Predator motor.

Or better yet, a "Gen 2" Predator motor.

It wouldn't be any worse than the 2010 Challenger that was in Drag Week with the turbo LS motor in it.

And you will get drug by a Hemi. That's why Birdman pulled that chevy based junk and went Hemi. You can't beat em.

I got a 2.600 intake valve in a 4.375 bore. Lmfao. Y'all should know but you dont. The ultimate drag race motor is still the Hemi.

Hey how about all you guys come to Carlisle this weeekend in space E107 to E111 and see one of these blocks in person for yourselves. WHY do moparts members think that they are the whole mopar universe? PEOPLE are getting blocks. I can tell everyone here that I personally have shipped 5 in the last couple months/ Just because I am not here everyday getting yelled at for all of the free advertising we are getting does not mean squat. Hey I am a Moparts member, heck I even help sponsor the board. Have for years. I just loaded it in the trailer for Carlisle. Do I count? Anyone here want to see my Moparts membership card?
As far as the legal crap is involved, I have said repeatedly that I totally get the level of frustration that is out there among customers with owed blocks. That list is shrinking by the day. A good many of these blocks are total custom jobs which are difficult to do under any circumstances. It is not like the new owner just got handed the keys to a great running business.There were numerous issues that had to be resolved which has been chronicled here at length. I can personally vouch for knowledge of at least 15 to 20 blocks that have left KB in the last few weeks and NO all of them did not go to pre existing orders. A good many have. Tim has some,Ray has some, and I have some. Come see one in living color for yourselves. Most of the people that have gotten one (INCLUDING a member here) have given STRICT instructions NOT to give out any information on him or his location. Just because no one is on here waving the arms and shouting LOOK at me!!!!! Does not mean anything. The website (still under construction) is up as well as the facebook page with nearly constant updates. Check them out for yourselves.
Sorry if I seem a little miffed but I have had my head caved in for the last 6 months on this and the guys are running as fast as they can after every issue. There have been more blocks shipped in the last 60 days than the last 3 years combined. If we try to explain things people say oh your just making excuses and if we do not try then we are hiding somehow. MY phone rings almost daily asking about them. COME AND SEE ONE.
Todd

Good response Todd, keep hitting it on those blocks. I think you guys did a big service to us Mopar guys. It takes time on a messed up deal like this. I'm in your corner.

I only know Tim in this deal & have not spoken to him for a couple of years, but I know he is a hard working & honest guy. I think it's fantastic that they grouped together & started producing KB's again.

I'm know it is frustrating if you had a pre existing order which was not delivered, but at least now it will be fulfilled. Yes, it won't be straight away, but thinking rationally, its understandable as any business needs income & profit before they can start taking losses.

If I had of known this business plan was in place & not gone another route. I would of ordered another KB without hesitation.


Thanks to all involved ...

PS
I bet folks who have block orders with Muscle Motors, would love a similar deal to happen........

Todd, I will be in Carlisle actually. I also already have two blocks but plan to stop by anyway And I agree with all of what you said. Many people on Moparts definitely tend to think they ARE the Mopar world. When we all know this is but a very small percentage of the Mopar people out there.

Oh yeah for the record I have been involved with the acquisition of three different businesses and have another planned for late next year. So I feel fairly good that I have a grasp on partnerships, and business sales. Just stating my opinion and maybe some of this has not been handled from a PR perspective in possibly the best manner..

I DO NOT have a dog in this fight, but this line "There have been more blocks shipped in the last 60 days than the last 3 years combined." is very impressive to me. Add to that a more modern casting technique that cuts down on scrap, very impressive indeed. KB has been foundering for years and could have easily gone BK. Then all the people on the "waiting list" would be lucky to get pennies on the dollar.

They probably would get nothing at all frankly. Just as many of us got nothing from MSD when they went belly up. I still have a pile of that BK paperwork in my office...

Todd, Al thanks for your input. Actual info I was looking for. Sorry I ruffled your feathers Todd. This will be my last post. Maybe my PR perspective was a little too direct. But no info was being put out on number of blocks or where they were going. The guys that have waited for years after putting hard earned money out. Are very frustrated. After being lied to by Ken for so long. Then being assured of a block in a matter of weeks. That was six months ago. So please don't be angry at these guys. Just put yourself in their shoes and ask yourself how you would feel. Its tough not to point fingers at some of the comments on here. But I won't because these derogatory posts would just continue.

Most of you think that a contract is a way to force someone to do what you want. That isn't exactly true. The purpose of a contract is to spell out what you expect and to enumerate the consequences should the contractor fail to meet the spec. There's a big difference between the two.

Thank God that some good people pooled their resources and kept the KB doors open. A simple filing of Chapter 7 bankruptcy would have erased any "owing" if blocks because there were probably some other groups that were first in line for any payback.
As I see it, besides the land there wasn't a whole lot of worth to be purchased. Every penny had to come from somewhere and the new owners are on the hook for it, with quite a bit of risk involved. As far as reducing the sale price by the amount of blocks "owed", it's a nice idea but when you're paying money for something that is practically worthless there's no way to reduce the cost. In my mind, they are producing those "owed" blocks for free. That's a pretty righteous thing to do. Why didn't they do them all first? Reasons are in Sasquatch's letter, plus there has to be some cash flow to pay the bills. No way around it.

For those who say they would have done it better, WHY DIDN'T YOU?
There was every indication that the enterprise was failing. If you have the business sense to take over other failing businesses, why did you let this opportunity pass by? So now you take shots at the people who put THEIR rear ends on the line. Bah!

To the new owners, Thanks for saving an important part of our history. I may never own a Keith Black block, but it is a good feeling to know that they are still being made. Dreams are necessary to our mental health.

R.

^^^^^ So true. Easy to be an arm chair quarterback.

I do have a dog in this fight. All I can say is, the lies continue, the poop is getting even deeper. Now for all the cheerleaders, why don't you send me $6000 dollars. I'm going to tell you that I'll pay you back in 3 months. What's your attitude going to be towards me four years later when I still haven't paid you back? I believe all you cheerleaders would have a very different attitude if the shoe was on your foot. Remember, Ken Black and his mother sold 40% of the company. Not all of it, so the new owners are partners, not completely new ownership. It's not a new company, just restructured through a change in management. That fact seams to keep getting covered up and forgotten. Basically a change in management and a influence of cash transpired. The number of armchair expert business men, and attorneys on here is very comical.

I'm kinda surprised anyone would get into a quagmire like this for less than controlling interest. Seems you are digging people out of a hole they dug and sullying your name with the aggrieved...for what exactly? Biz was dead in the water so should've been an easy negotiation.

I agree. This is NOT a new company period. It is the same company with some new partners and an influx of cash. Some of the new cash people had a vested interest in seeing the good promised delivered. Seems they have been taken care of in q much quicker order than those who have been waiting years in some cases. Not sure why some here seem to think that is fine and dandy but passed obligations well that's the past and we will get to it when we get to it. I'm all for them buying INTO the business and providing it with a much needed(apparently)influx of cash and maybe a bit of a new perspective. But the fact remains the obligations and people owed money are just that. Still owed monies for goods that have been paid for. Obligations which were there when they decided to put up their money to buy into an existing business.

As I stated earlier I wish KB and the new investors all the best. IMO this has been handled very poorly from a PR perspective for sure. People who put money in apparently have gotten some of their money back in short with new blocks, while others who have been waiting for extended periods of time are still waiting. I just don't see why many here see no problem with this, or at least the appearance of a problem. I also don't understand why there would be ANY secrecy regarding those who have already received blocks that were owed blocks. Seems to me I would be trumpeting those who have received the goods they paid for. After all according to what I am reading here they are owed nothing.....

Do you guys know how many people lose 10's of thousands of dollars everyday with NOTHING done about it. Businesses change their name daily to rob people of their money. I would like to see all the communications between the parties that are still waiting as communication is a lost art today. Slowly some of the people that were out thousands of dollars are getting their blocks. Last year we couldn't say that and we can only hope next year we will not be having this discussion. At least now there is HOPE. Would I be pissed??? Your dog-gone right I would be pissed. But hope goes a long way and touching it when it finally arrived would be far better than touching nothing.

Seems business as well as personal integrity is sorely lacking all over these days....

Yes it is but it also goes both ways. I used to try to port about 7-8 sets of heads over the Winter months. Friends and locals only as I didn't want to get into shipping heads so I would tell people drop them off the end of October asap and no cash was needed till picked up. i told them I started on my stuff late February so get it here. Guess when guys would text to see if I could do their work. If you guessed late March you are in the ballpark. Like I said I would like to hear BOTH sides of the story as some guys have a habit of changing their mind mid-stream multiple times.

Seems like it could have been laid out fairly plainly from early on.

One block to someone who is "owed" a block for every "x" number of blocks produced, with the back ordered blocks being delivered in order of those who paid first, get theirs first.
Once the production levels had become somewhat known(x number of finished blocks being delivered per month), then a schedule for filling the back orders could be established, along with projected delivery dates for each of the people waiting.
Then it's just a matter of letting them know when their block is projected to be done.

AS I say this was not handled well from a PR standpoint at all. I understand there was also a lack of good solid record keeping, or at least what I was told within KB itself which has muddled up things as well.

As for integrity goes with race car customers. I have not deal with very many that DONT wait til the last minute to get things done. Seems the norm more than the exception. And yes they change their minds often to be sure. I have been in the auto business most of my life and trust me I understand.

I probably shouldn't say anything since I don't know what is going on but my guess is that KB was a big mess. And if it was big mess on the mechanical side it was probably a big mess on the paperwork side also. It could be that the new team is having trouble even figuring out who paid for what and when.

I really doubt that KB ran a perfect set of books but a lousy manufacturing process. People just aren't that way. If their manufacturing is messy then their books are messy......

How do you know so well who has and who hasn't got their blocks in the order they were paid for?
When did you last sit down with either Ken, Darren ,or Tim?
I can tell you ,you may think you know what's going on but truly dont.
Not saying I do but I can tell you I have had talks with Tim on the subject. They are taking care of paid customers

You talk a lot of bull turds and do lots of ASSuming.

Maybe you should purchase or partner up on HP blocks and show the mopar world how it is done.
My understanding he owes lots of blocks to people and could use help like yours.
Can't wait to see how your PR skills work !!

Monitors, it's time to put an end to this thread!!!

We all have an opinion...I base mine on what I know about people who have been affected.

I agree it is probably a good place to end this but wont be by me as I am one involved. God forbid anyone accuses me of closing a topic I am involved in...

Lay with dogs, ya get fleas.

People just need to boycott KB until the company squares the books.

People that paid for block should go pick there new block up, there sitting, waiting.

The only people that the new KB owes any communication with is the people that have paid deposits for block. Verifying who ordered what, how much they paid and when is probably going to be an entirely different problem than producing a racing block and may even be more difficult.

Why close it?

At least some on both sides can feel better blowing off steam. Nobody's been insutled.

I'd be pissed too. But I have known since at least the late 1990's that KB was in the poop. So I didn't ever put my money, or a customers money into a situation like that. The folks who rolled the dice and hoped to not get burned and did also have some responsibility in this. You gambled.

Lemmy said "you win some you lose some it's all the same to me" and that seems to fit here. For all you who are not Motörhead fans that's from The Ace of Spades.

I doubt that the investors are as flush with cash as you think there are. So I suspect (as I have no skin in this game...I'm not a gambler) that they are making enough money to keep going and filling back orders when they can to keep from saying screw it and walking away. I personally wouldn't take garbage like this on the web too long before I said screw it and just walked away. So be thankful I didn't invest in KB. I'd have bought the tooling and let the rest of it rot.

In the end, the margins are very tight on this stuff. These aren't chevies we are talking about where they can sell 100 or more blocks a week. I'd be surprised if they sold 200 blocks a year unless they are selling to fuel teams.

Like I say...it could have been worse.

So you expect everyone to work for nothing, or worse yet, pay to work until the back orders are filled?

That just isn't how real life works. You force someone to work for nothing and most of us just won't do it.

So you expect everyone to work for nothing, or worse yet, pay to work until the back orders are filled?

Look, when they bought into a company knowing people were defrauded, knowing it was going to take alot of cash to make it work, to make things right, knowing the people owed were not just going to lay down, (I loaned my one friend 3k, he was short so he could pay for the block he never received) maybe they made a foolish business move going into this.

The people owed blocks need to be made whole, plain and simple.

I know business, well enough to be retired at 49 and I know this whole mess is not the way its done.

If I could buy a KB block today for $1, id spit on it and walk away.

Just out of curiosity AL out of the approx 50 blocks owing how many people do you know that are owed blocks?
Of those blocks how many are custom deals,decks ,bores ,cam bearing/placement?
Maybe you could see where I'm going with this?
The best thing to happen in the mopar world in along time and you want to boycott?
Here is my opinion
Some hate to see others do well no matter what.
Call it lack of PR , call it no business integrity or what may you but I call it a chance to rain on another's parade.
Truth be known you and some others really would like to see it fail for some twisted reason

Truth be known you and some others really would like to see it fail for some twisted reason.

Its not a twisted reason, paid customers have gotten a back seat, crapped on and really some people need to be put out, strained financially, stressed until the people owed are made whole. THATS PART OF BUSINESS.

Two to be exact. One a personal friend who has not heard a peep on a block paid in full. He has since taken it up with his credit card company to get his money back from what he tells me. The second is a guy who is an acquaintance that I sold my last Mega Block to as to help the guy out. Have not spoken to him in a few weeks so not sure if he has been contacted at all. I have no reason to doubt their word at all.

I have no desire to see them fail or go away. I have stated such in this thread. I have two of their blocks as well as an Indy and World aluminum block. No doubt the KB is the best of the three. But we went with Indy and World at the time because we could get them. My opinion is it just could have been handled better from a PR point. Then things like reactions in this thread would likely not exist. Just my .02

we have 2 blocks here were I work , one had a deposit and was ordered last year and the other is recently purchased block...for the record one person won't post on this forum thinks most of you are elitist a-holes and the other just recently found out about it....both former BBC street racers.
I don't know much about the history of what KB is going thru as a company. As some one who has had to deal with many of companies folding and being owed money or product....I'm just grateful I can keep my doors open.

I will say they have done way better on their Facebook page showing progress and new blocks shipping to dealers. Apparently that is the place they wish to concentrate their marketing efforts. I also seem to recall talking to Todd they are concentrating on doing Hemi blocks for now, but don't quote me on that

And yet there are posts on this thread where people have been waiting years......


I highly doubt it will ever be public knowledge....... But I wonder what the number is for blocks that have either been paid in full, or have big deposits on them, that have yet to be delivered....... From the time before the new investors got involved.

In other words....... How deep is the hole?

l
Sounds like they are working on. Just not to your satisfaction. Rome wasn't built in a day. And to fix a disaster like this will take some time.

Like I said, I'm out nothing. I don't put my money in a rat hole.

[quote=EV2Bird] So you expect everyone to work for nothing, or worse yet, pay to work until the back orders are filled?

Look, when they bought into a company knowing people were defrauded, knowing it was going to take alot of cash to make it work, to make things right, knowing the people owed were not just going to lay down, (I loaned my one friend 3k, he was short so he could pay for the block he never received) maybe they made a foolish business move going into this.

The people owed blocks need to be made whole, plain and simple.

I know business, well enough to be retired at 49 and I know this whole mess is not the way its done.

If I could buy a KB block today for $1, id spit on it and walk away.


Unless you are a professional racer, if you can't afford to take the loss, don't spend the money.

Can't count how many times I've been burned in this business. In a hobby, don't spend money you can't afford to lose. Certainly don't gamble with it.

Al
both of these blocks are Hemi's both guys changing things up for next season.
Fast 68,
"
And yet there are posts on this thread where people have been waiting years......"

I feel for those people(been on both sides of situations like this)
but I know I've had to delay older orders for one reason or another and fill newer orders just to be able to sign the 14 paychecks I need to every week.

That's the strange part of the story. When I ordered mine i then got a spec sheet then we went went over the spec sheet and came up with and agreed upon build with final costs. At that time 1/2 of the cost was placed as a deposit and months later when it was finished I told them the shipping company and where I wanted to pick it up as I live out in the boonies. At that time final payment was made and my block went out the door. How did these guys end up so much out of money? Did they pay for the total cost BEFORE the work was started??? If so that isn't a good move whether its a roof on your house or a block being made for your car. Johnny doesn't play that game.

The whole problem is there is over 80 blocks owed from what I was told, many paid half and many paid in full. I am one of the paid in full guys. Call me dumb or what ever your keyboard types. I went thru a [censored] divorce and paid in full so the ex wife would not get the money I saved for the block. It has been about 2 years now and I have still never have gotten a phone call once about my block unless I made the call. Communication is the key to a good business. Just make phone calls it is really not that hard. We all understand they have to make money. So Shadow please share this with Tim instead of bashing everyone that is mad. Ken made the mess and is still part of it. We just want some integrity in the matter.

Based on the numerous threads through the years regarding the KB block saga...... I always got the impression that promises were made and stories were told.

Isn't that how most cons work?

I had my name on Bill Mitchell waiting list for a Compact Graphite Iron wedge race block when he was selling the Mopar wedge and hemi World Products cast grey iron blocks, that was for over two and half years and they didn't get enough orders to start the production line on those blocks so they pulled the plug on that project
My point is many good intentions projects don't always produce fruit
Hopefully this new deal will end well for every one

I was going to build my car with a KB Hemi and a Passon 5 speed but decided I'm 45 years old and would like to enjoy my car before I'm 80.

Ok
How about everyone take a breath please.
First. Thank everyone who stopped by to see me at Carlisle. Hope everyone had a good time and a safe trip home.
I have said before but will say again. ANYONE who put down deposit money at any time and have not heard anything from KB at this time, please call me at 336-283-0800 and I will find out what the deal is. Period.
I am tired as I just drove 9 hours from Carlisle so I am not going to say much more on this for awhile. If people would like some more information the phone is on and your email will get answered.
Todd

This is how it works. You call the number, talk to a really nice guy. Spec out a block, place the order. Give a 50% deposit, get told 3 months and you'll have it. 3 months go by, call and check. Told foundry is behind. 3 more months go by, call and check, it's being machined. 3 more months, machining issues. 3 more months, block is ready! Pay the balance. After a month and the block hasn't arived, call again. Told the main studs had a recall. Ok, then it was a sleeve issue. Got pictures of block, serial numbe of block, etc. Even had a friends son who's in school stop by and he verified the block. Time marches on, no block, more stories. Finally the nice guy in charge comes clean on a phone call. Block just needs sleeves, business is on a cash only ticket (COD). Waiting on money to purchase sleeves. Ok, not happy, but do understand. 40% of the company sells to investors with needed cash. Promised by the new people in change that the block would ship within a week. More time goes by, no block. Call the people in charge again, get told they decided to scrap the block, claiming there having issues with the foundry on all new castings. I understand foundry issues on new castings, but my block was casted over 3 years ago. Now the people in charge are dodging the phone. At least I had Ken Blacks personal cell number. Now, I can't say who the little birdie is, but trust me the birdie is very credible. My block got shipped, not to me but to a very high profile hemi builder who has a few bucks invested for his dirrect customer usage. Yes I truly believe there are 2 or three members on here who have recieved blocks. I'm even more convinced that those 2 or 3 memebrs are the guys who have invested money into this scam.

If I was one of the new investors, at this point I'd be wishing I'd just waited for the bankruptcy auction.

Kevin

I met Todd. I looked at the block. It's nice work. Hopefully they can get cranking them out fast enough to get you guys who paid and deserve a block taken care of, and the new customers bringing in the cash flow at the same time. They are a very nice piece. Todd is very very sincere on this block issue. You guys WILL get them. I wouldn't want to be in either situation.

I would be curious as to how many blocks are on back order, I hope that everyone gets what they've ordered. I'd agree with Al, that perhaps the transition could have been done with more transparency. However, guys like Todd are doing their best to keep their customers happy. I can certainly understand many of the posts of frustration, being in the hole $6K and still waiting years later would upset the calmest of people.
I suspect the new investors may not have realized how big a mess they were inheriting.
I hope it has a positive outcome for all concerned

Well said Al!

You won't see a dime of my money until everybody is taken care of (owed blocks).
You took on the business, you took on the responsibility of the past customers, PERIOD!

You want us to trust you guys, show me some results of taking care of the people that are in limbo.

KB is still on the hook, trust me on that!

http://www.forhemisonly.com/PDF/keith-black-racing-engines.pdf

I think people are complaining to the wrong guy.

Hard to figure out who really is the head honcho in the link.

The first and biggest mistake they made was not hiring one of the guys from a Moparts as CEO that really know how to run a business. Lol. The best way to come out of being almost bankrupt is to go further in the hole before trying to make money.

This will make ya scratch your head.

http://fastmachineinc.com/

Like chasing a ghost.

I think my friend is screwed.

Im sorry for the hemi guys.

Like I said earlier, all you arm chair quarterbacks should buy in at hpp and show us all exactly how its done.

Things have turned around at kb and the blocks in the initial post prove it
I can assure you the new owners aren't there for bank roll but to fix the issues
I love all the assumption and speculation of what and why things are happening
To each his own on spending good money on second best, for those who dont want to purchase the ultimate cast mopar block.

Im done, lets see where KB is at in a month.

Apparently it was supposed to happen just like that about 6 months ago......

From the FASTLANE press release 1/24/17:



And then there was this tidbit:

Well for one I did a lot of business with Ken in the past, 4 blocks at different times.
I told a customer to call him direct with a custom order, two years later still waiting for a block. KB did not file bankruptcy, new investors through there money into the business and statements were made that the paid customers would be taken care of. I want to see results of these statements.
You keep posting how we are all arm chair quarterbacks on this subject, what is your roll? You don't seem to have any good answers to the problem.

CALL THE CUSTOMERS! TELL THEM THE PLAN! QUIT POSTING NEW BLOCKS WILL BE AVAILABLE TO NEW CUSTOMERS (TAKE CARE OF THE PAID COSTUMERS!)

What is crazy to me is there are several investors to get the business back going and I have heard a # that 80 blocks were owed and most paid a 50% deposit. This is only about $250k. In the grand scheme of things all 80 blocks would only be $500k retail( before price increase). What is this business worth???

I'm a customer/colleague of Tim, but if you have a block owed to you you'll get it I'm quite sure of that.
You won't find a more stand up guy
If you have contacted them there working on it and will give the details but calling every week wont change delivery time I'm sure. It's all been said
Lord knows if I had a block owing I would be.
I know it's been a big endeavor to sort things out and all things haven't gone to completely to plan but they are going forward.
Yes there are a lot of arm chair quarterbacks that haven't a clue what it has taken to resurrect KB. The ridiculous statements put forward prove it.
I talk with Tim and probably know a fraction of 1% on the work that has been put forward but I can say most know less than that

My block was ordered on 10-06-2014. Todd Marsh confirmed that my block was the oldest one on order. Todd also confirmed that my block was done and just waiting on sleeves. Todd also told me that he would do everything in his power to have the sleeves installed and the block shipped by the end of the week. This was back in April. Todd also asked me not to get on this form and blab about this. Well this is mid July, and as you all know, no block. I feel that I've remained very calm, I choose not to go to Carlisle, for fear that I wouldn't be able to remain calm. And now a very credible little birdie informed me that my block got shipped to a very high profile hemi builder to fill his customer needs. Mine is a raised cam, big bore block. There is more, a lot more. I shall remain silent on the rest at this time.

I would have gone ballistic if my block went to some other person, even if was god.

Well it was less than zero, or maybe some small amount after a liquidation. Value of tooling, name brand(maybe not worth much after the bs), possibly real estate. If no real estate the amount was certainly around zero as tooling for something this niche isn't going to bring a premium price. Real head scratcher as to how/why a deal for less than half interest was reached. I'll speculate it was for far less money than most think and with the intent to profit from the building of the engines. Recapitalize just enough to restart production for their ends to be met and hope nobody sues.

I'm still amazed at the bad press, when the new company is honoring, (at any rate), the debt of another company.

The reality is, they owe nothing to any prior debt, unless mandated by a court, which isn't the case. The fact they're willing to honor these prior debts can only be viewed in two ways. First, they're good guys who care about the people jammed by KB. Second, they care about how the company is viewed, and are filling debt orders solely for company image, in an effort to bolster new buyer confidence. Either way the result is the same.

Another issue is, I don't know of too many race car oriented businesses ran by real brain trusts, or fortune 500 CEOs. The industry is full of personalities, often talented in a field, with almost no business savvy. No different than most of us.

I run, and own, with my partner, a multi million dollar international business. I make mistakes constantly in business, because of my limited education in the field. Still, I keep swinging, and make enough money to overcome my mistakes. In a race business, from what I've seen, it's a perilous business, with slim margins for error.

Be glad blocks are available, and that if owed one, you have a chance of getting one. JM view on it, and I'm ordering another.

While you guys are pounding the guys that tried to resurrect KB, you might stop to remember they didn't have to ship any new blocks to old customers of KB that got screwed, BY KB! I would suggest focusing your angst or even a class action suit against Ken Black rather than attack people like Tim Banning, Ray Barton or Todd Marsh. I know Todd and he is doing the best he can. And by the way, how are those M Motor blocks working out? This must be a much more difficult process than anyone imagined.

Oh boy, back to square one. Fact, it's not a new company. Fact, yes there was a change in management. Fact, yes there are new investors. Fact, all debt still applies. Fact, all orders must be filled, or money refunded, unless bankruptcy is filed then it depends which chapter is filed. Now with the change in management, that's no different than large companies changing CEO's. The investors are no different than you or I buying stock in a company. Doesn't matter if you buy one share or a hundred shares, you become a owner and the company does NOT become a new company just because you invested. Maybe it's true that the new investors are truly stand up guys and are doing there best. I do know that I've been lied to from the new management. The new management needs to come clean, stop with the smoke and mirrors, stop with the lies. Lay down a solid plan, put it out there and stick to it. They need to explain where finished and paid for blocks disappeared to. I really hope they can get this mess figured out, and get the company back up and running the way it should be. There's a lot of wrongs that need to be righted, and many have come from the new management.

Fact: Companies can be bought without assuming liabilities.
Fact: The new company doesn't owe previous customers anything unless that was in the purchase agreement, that none of us have seen.
Fact: M Motors and others have had problems getting blocks produced at high rates of speed, not just the new folks at KB, and there have been others too.
Fact: If blocks were sent to Barton to be quality controlled so someone here didn't wind up with a 150# paperweight, that's a good thing.

I understand people feeling like they are being treated unfairly but, at least now there is a chance they may get the block they paid for from the new owners. If people continue to call them liars, they may just be alienating the very people trying to help them. It's starting to sound like the mob mentality.

I'm not a lawyer, but I don't think you can just sell your company to someone else and divulge yourself of the commitment to repay what's owed or supply the goods as promised.
Maybe the people who have paid can't go after the new owners, but they sure should be able to go after someone.

If I had laid out 5 grand, I'd have visited a lawyer when I heard about the new ownership to figure out who is really liable to pay me back, and what kind of time frame I'd have available to take action.

The only thing that makes any sense to me about the new investors resurrecting it instead of letting it go under is that more than likely it would have resulted in a long process of sorting everything out, and what they did instead seemed like the easier/quicker path forward.

Call me the eternal pessimist, but big money corporate investors being overly concerned with doing the right thing by "the little guy" isn't a story you hear very often.

It will be interesting to see how it all plays out in the long run.

Darren will be releasing a public statement here and other forums in the very near future. That is all I am saying on this publicly for now.
Good day.
Todd

This is about the best thing that can and should happen. Hopefully it will clear things up for those with a vested interest in the outcome.

Todd you have been helping as much as you can. Thank you for that. This is not your problem but you like what you do and want to help, that is stand up. There is a lot of people who are not even involved in this and a few that are. I talked to Tim this am and trust me I do not like to bother him. He is trying to run a business and figure out kb. He is a nice guy. I do understand everyone just wants solid information. It has been a tough road thanks to Ken. Darren apparently is the man of the group. No communication was started by Ken and has continued for all of this year so far except for blocks are flowing to new customers. After the smoke clears it would be something for Ken to speak out on what he did to everyone and at the least apologize for what he did. As for Ken is still involved. KB is tarnished right now to quite a few due to the past. If Darren would have communicated more clearly thru this it would have been better. Lets hope for the best and hopefully go racing soon!!!

My 2 sense in something I am not involved with, but would like to comment.
On the investors side of the fence: It does take time, engineering, planning, $$$ good PR packaging and a common business sense to get things off the ground right from the start as in making blocks with no known name or history to them.

KB was a name synonymous with great products and performance so it was a given to latch onto that legacy and their block/design casting jigs.

Now, on the side of those who are owed: In this case, the investors have what seems to be good intentions, but while being tethered to a now infamous name that has dug quite a few holes for itself.
Lots of dirty laundry has to pass the wash cycle before it smells of clean and dry and the investors should know this going into this hot kitchen.
That being said, I would clean up the messy dishes with good durable and perfectly machined blocks first and foremost delivered to those who are owed. Only then will the wash cycle water come clean and only then will the Hemi and Wedge guru's be there on line to make good examples of the new blocks for current and future clients.



.

There is more going on behind the scenes at Keith Black Racing than we will ever know. First of all issues were dating back 5 plus years as far as foundry issues, pollution laws, being located in California, loss of trained personal, and who knows what else. Just hiring workers today to do some of these "dirty jobs" would make you scratch your head. Some of the Millwrights that applied were I worked couldn't even light a dam torch let along burn something with it. And that was after 50% failed drug tests.

A little more insight about some of the potential problems with the KB blocks, Buddy Bar foundry(use to be Alcoa aluminum foundry in the heyday of Aerospace) use to cast KB blocks, they may be out of business now due to the CA enviormental laws.
I called and talk to Ken Black several years ago about the issues raised on this site and he told me that he had lost his vendor on the block castings and the cores casting for the blocks, he was having quality control issues on the castings cores ruining the blocks castings enough to make them unusable.
Hopefully both of those issues are resolved now

Yes AlCOA lost its doors to a lot of competition overseas and I'm not talking China, I'm talking Sweden and Ireland where a host of new smelting factories have popped up to make and machine aluminum.
There are a few casting facilities still here in the US, but how many of them are willing to deal with the headaches associated with machining blocks to specs.

I can't and won't speak to what I don't know. What I will tell you is that this member only invested the cost of the block in "this scam." I do hope your situation is resolved properly and promptly. I have no means or information that can help. If I did I would.

Don't have a comment, just want to move the topic back up. So it's not forgotten!!!!!

It's been a week since this was posted. I don't care how busy anybody thinks they are. You're not that busy people. Time to take ownership of this blemished calf.

It's been a week since this was posted. I don't care how busy anybody thinks they are. You're not that busy people. Time to take ownership of this blemished calf.

I'm not surprised anymore...

According to the announcement the new investors have a combined 60% stake in the company, the Blacks have 40%.



Still lots of potential for trouble tho with no one holding 51%.

Kevin

We pay too much and still get ripped off.

And we say the chevy guys are the dicks.

For the so called dummies

Another

Those are iron blocks are they not?

Kevin

Yes iron but still with a rot. assembly.

Just simply stating that some have the luxury of a simple few mouse clicks and they know in short order what they will have.

My friend just got a iron 632 setup ordered, will have it in a week.

Shop told me they can get me a dart aluminium block for 1300 no work ..

I was able to see a KB block next to an Indy block.The KB is worth every penny more than the INdy!!!!

Last year Jegs was practically giving away LS blocks for $250! How much for a GenIII Hemi?

Is it because demand is that much lower for Chrysler products, or is it because they know we'll pay? I can't speak for all Mopar enthusiasts under 30 yrs old, but I personally don't have a problem with adding a motor plate and an LSX/PowerGlide into my Coronet.

It is demand, go to any track or car show and look at the ratio of GMs to Mopars.
If a company was able to sell 1 Mopar block for every 10 GM blocks they made, it would probably be cost effective for regular production. It's high risk to manufacture anything that's going to take a long time for ROI.

BUMP!

NEWS?

Would someone please define, 'very near future'

More Like..

Shined on.

To be deliberately ignored. Actually, worse than being ignored. Your presence not even being acknowledged. Someone talking to others around you, and passing you up .

I can hear next summers crickets already.

I have no dog in this fight and it looks to me that some people are running their mouth that also have no dog in this fight. I wish the new owners nothing but the best! Ted

I have to agree wholeheartedly. I will say, I have lost some respect for a few on here because of it. Dont know the guys, just their contributions to the site, which I enjoy, but would have thought they had more sense than to get into the middle of something they know nothing about.

Flame on. LMAO

I do since I loaned a friend 3k on a block he never received.

These guys jumped in bed with a known poor businessman with poor practices and thats putting it nice.

OP here goes and post pics of NEW fresh blocks while folks due go without, talk about rubbing salt in a wound.

Now not a peep from the so called Chief of this collective as we were advised.

Sure the guys involved probably are great guys but things dont seem to be working as smooth as they thought and now not a peep.

Sounds like some might be better off just to disassociate themselves to avoid the guilty by association label.

The big dogs in the deal are not even usa based, how would anyone even start litigation, this was well thought out.

Releasing a public statement kind of sounds like trouble to me.......

I can see you cannot be reasoned with but the new owners jumped in bed to save any chance a a block being supplied to your friend or anybody for that matter.
IMO better late than never, but for you never seems to be better.
Good news is blocks are being made
Bad news is Debbie downers always have something negative to say.

Why would you loan someone $3,000 to purchase a block from a "known poor businessman with poor practices and thats putting it nice."

I ran old arias gm based hemis from the 80-s my friend wanted to build a single engine KB based build, I never thought I had to keep up on a name like KB. No more, no less.

It just sucks, there rep posted there would be a statement, they dont even seem to be on the same page.

Try to track who owns KB right now, it dont seem to be found easily, it looks like all the trademarks are still held by KB Racing.

If they would just clarify what the real deal is weather guys are screwed, or if it lays on Kens and his 20%.

Simple strait up honest communication and folks keeping there word goes along way and none of this is happening.

The release says the big dog down under has two businesses, they both look to be a one page websites.

Like chasing a ghost. Alot just dont add up and lack of communication blows, I didnt start this post here, dude showing off pics did.

I don't have a dog in the fight, but am friends with someone who is friends with a guy who does -seriously.

I am curious. If the guys were to make a statement about the lack of delivery, what would be an acceptable and/or believable answer?

Im not the one who said there would be a public statement. KB-s rep did.

So.

Ive said all I really like getting into here, people are giving them chance after chance but its getting old because they dont seem to be on the same page internally.

EV2, n/m, you posted as I was typing. Thanks.

You should get flamed for not wanting shady businesses in our hobby outed. Guess if you two were king we'd never speak of any nefarious characters and the buyer would always be completely on his own. These guys dug this hole, and keep digging it deeper. Not any of the rest of our faults. If it bothers you two that bad, just walk on away and save your whining for when a business does you wrong.

Don't bother me a bit. What bothers me is people dogpiling that don't have anything at stake. Our hobby? Just what is our hobby?

Wow, you rail about that and not the ripoff? Think about that. You find fault with such postings and not with the dirty stuff. Don't bother to keep digging with a shovel. You need a backhoe to keep going from here.

It seems at least something is being done about the owed blocks. It might not be how the people who are owed want it but it's how it is. It's been explained why they're not filling all of those first (financially impossible) and it seems reasonable. If I was owed a block I'd want mine filled first for sure, but being on the outside gives you a pragmatic (not necessarily honorable, honorable doesn't always workout in the end) view and the realities of it. Has Ken Black done some greasy stuff, sure seems like it. Is it a hard pill to swallow for those owed that he's still involved, yep (and I think that's the root of the flaming taking place). If the majority owners have any sense (seems they do), they need to stick Ken Black in the deepest darkest closet they have and never mention his name again, or let him have ANYTHING to do publicly regarding the company.
For the pissed off guys that are owed I don't blame you, but realistically this company was headed to bankruptcy, and you'd for sure have nothing. At least this way there's a good chance you'll get your block.

Maybe it's time to knock on the door in L.A. with an attorney. Answers is all the people want and nobody is reaching out or contacting anybody. The new ownership is NOT making any of these issues any better.
"We got new blocks flowing", not one person owed a block has got one!
I'm not putting my money out until these guys do what they said they were going to do......TAKE CARE OF THE CUSTOMERS!

Or do like me 3200 big m dart block is on the way ..

My buddy that has had a block on order from old Ken, got his block last week. So they are going out.

WOW!!!!!!!! GREAT news and to think he could have ended up with nothing had others not stepped up to the plate with a plan. And followed through with it. Lets hear the Debbie-downers now.

Very good news for sure..Will let everyone know when my buddy receives his...

Great! Now Somecarguy can go give his priceless advice elsewhere...

A post with a picture would do wonders!

I know of nobody getting anything.

Not doubting, just saying.

Anybody who got a block that was owed one, PLEASE come on here and say they got it. It would change everything.

That has been thought of for a while now. People say just leave the hood on it and nobody will know.

Would be a lot cheaper in the long run.

I have pictures, but don't know how to post them, you ever seen a kb block lol? Just was saying my buddy got his after a loooooong wait and run around.

Amazing thing is I dont have a clue who you are yet you claim to know everybody in the mopar world

Oh ya I own one!

DITTO!
You're just a friend of one of the investors - SHUT UP!

You should practice what you preach

Well, that escalated quickly..

Not exactly, other than the block and valve train (Hemi wise). I priced out a build for a 632" N/A and a 540" blown and everything else was comparably priced so a little cheaper but not a lot.

Lets keep this thread civil.

Order placed 10-06-2014. I'm still waiting.

You still have sand caught in you? This all really bothered you so bad you'd continue to post that it shouldn't be spoken of? Says VOLUMES about your character or lack there of. Getting all hot and bothered about light being shined on the darkness reveals your inner workings...not pretty.

And yeah, great somebody got one. Now you can go troll the guy waiting for three years. Take up for your friends that haven't helped him. Go right ahead. They didn't have to post this thread, didn't have to say an announcement would be made either.

I was told by my builder 632 would be around 15000 top to bottom with with way more hp.then I could build with my mopar..in the same price range..and I know it to be facts cause a buddy has 1 of his 632 and a 770 grudge deal.

Dude....You are really pushing your luck..Enough said.

This place has really turn into a joke..smdh

OK I have to say I don't want this getting out of hand but NO CONTACT from KB to people owed blocks is NOT GOOD! Call them, give them the real story and respect their concerns.

I asked if somebody had received a block that was owed to please come on this forum and state the facts. This will help KB and these people that are out money.

I guess a few have been sent out. I would just like to see how many. I guess if KB would contact people I would not need to hear from others.

Believe it or not everyone doesn't have a computer, belong to Moparts, or if they do may not ever post. That's the way some guys fly. I have at least 5 racing Mopar guys that have never owned a computer and the only reason they have ever touched one is because they have to enter their time at work on one. Boy did they cry when that happened.

Yup.

And the price of the new KB block is a joke as well.

A cast block for more then a billet block because someone's dad's name is on it.

My thoughts excacly...

You might find that reading the entire thread can be enlightening. Nothing personal, just a fact.

I haven't seen a billet block for much less than $10K, most have been been in the $10-15K range. Where are you guys looking?

Well it was for a SBC but a billet block is a billet block...

Kevin

That might be true if there were as many people running BBMs as there are running SBCs

Running a Mopar is more costly than most others, period.
I don't blame anyone for being ****ed off that had money in one and hasn't seen it or heard a word. Hopefully those that have blocks ordered get them.
I've seen one of the new blocks, Todd Marsh had one at MMW.

Guys, this is really looking like the mob mentality. Billet blocks from Brad Anderson for $7500? I don't think so, I've looked into that. After machine work with all kinds of options a person would want, more like the 10-15k previously mentioned.
I get why you guys waiting are mad but do you really think you're doing anything other than making the new people wish they never got involved with this? Think about it. If you want to do something, contact a lawyer about a class action suit against Ken Black and wait a minimum of another 2 years for a resolution and possibly .50 on the dollar.

On a side note FHO has a billet hemi water block in the works. HAd one in the shop when I was there yesterday
Complain all you like about the price of a kb but the truth of the matter is it is the best mopar water block available and once you fix an indy it will cost as much or moRe.

http://bradanderson.com/product/15-bae-billet-block/

So I guess if you were going to run alcohol, wanted a hemi block, were ok with being towed to the line and back to your pit, it would be worth calling BAE and asking how much one really costs and if it came with sleeves, machine work, etc. Less than I thought though, CN from Nuyten are more though.

It comes standard hemi. Mine has 4.375 bore, standard mains and cam, standard lifter bore and spacing.

Options are unlimited and can include water jackets but they have only made two with water.

You make post after post about it being discussed, at this point I have no idea what you think about the situation. Only that you keep bumping it when you claim not to care. Weird and you take time to take pot shots at people. Maybe let it go to further you stated goal of having it fade away.

My only input to this topic is perhaps the OP should change the title from "Keith Black blocks are flowing" to "Keith Black blocks are trickling" to be more representative of the situation.

[quote=BradH]My only input to this topic is perhaps the OP should change the title from "Keith Black blocks are flowing" to "Keith Black blocks are trickling" to be more representative of the situation. [/quote
Old kb was a trickle. It would have taken 3 years to get 6 blocks

Joe Barry, Colorado Drag Week racer took this picture while visiting Michigan yesterday. Dart Machinery. This is what "BLOCKS FLOWING" looks like. I told my brother when the buy in happened to try and save KB, that we were easily two or three years away from real "shelf stock". Nothing I've read in this post changes my mind on that assumption. I'm a patient guy...we will see, but not holding my breath.

Dart would probably produce 10 times the number of blocks that KB or Indy does. But yes Billy, your points are very valid